It doesn't get any sicker then this. [Archive]

View Full Version : It doesn't get any sicker then this.

Fragony

01-23-2009, 16:47

Extreme tragedy in Belgium, some nutjob runs into a baby whatsitcalled and randomly starts stabbing baby's. 4 dead, 10 in the hospital in critical condition.

What. the. hell. Good news is that they got him.

:shame:

only dutch source more later.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-23-2009, 16:56

rory_20_uk

01-23-2009, 17:07

Right.

Definite guilt.
Murder

Firing squad after Magistrate's trial.

~:smoking:

Vladimir

01-23-2009, 17:19

Wow. That makes the eyes burn.

If the guy is dead then the priority is to console the victim's families.

naut

01-23-2009, 17:24

Found an English link:

Three die in Belgian child care center attack (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSTRE50M3A720090123)

DENDERMONDE, Belgium (Reuters) - A man with a white painted face and blackened eyes fatally stabbed two infants and a woman at a child care center in western Belgium on Friday before cycling away.

Eleven other children and two other women workers were wounded and being treated at local hospitals, authorities said. Three of the children were in a critical condition.

Terrible.

Seamus Fermanagh

01-23-2009, 17:30

Found an English link:

Three die in Belgian child care center attack (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSTRE50M3A720090123)

Terrible.

"white face and blackened eyes?"

I really wish the crazies would simply remove themselves from the equation rather than reveling in their own evil. :shame:

Tribesman

01-23-2009, 17:37

"white face and blackened eyes?"
He forgot the round red nose.

HoreTore

01-23-2009, 18:36

I really wish the crazies would simply remove themselves from the equation rather than reveling in their own evil. :shame:

There is a (more than slight) difference between "evil done because of evil" and "evil done because of psychiatric wondercase". This man may have been an evil crazy, or he may have been a crazy who is barely/not able to understand what's going on around him.

As this guy is a psychiatric patient, it may well be the second, and as such can't really be judged as evil even though they may do evil...

rvg

01-23-2009, 18:42

Crimes like this one deserve a special treatment as far as punishment goes. He should be fed to a school of piranhas or at the very least drawn and quartered.

Reverend Joe

01-23-2009, 18:46

A man with a white painted face and blackened eyes stabbed two infants and a woman to death and injured 13 at a nursery in western Belgium on Friday before cycling away.

The suspected attacker, who Belgian media said was a psychiatric patient, was detained soon afterwards at a local shop.

I know everyone's gonna hate me for pointing this out, but seriously...

https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4649/jokerwizardll0.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/jokerwizardll0.jpg/1/w348.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img217/jokerwizardll0.jpg/1/)

...the similarity is distressing. Maybe this guy actually thought he was the joker.

Strike For The South

01-23-2009, 20:11

Disgusting

BigTex

01-23-2009, 20:11

Crimes like this one deserve a special treatment as far as punishment goes. He should be fed to a school of piranhas or at the very least drawn and quartered.

I am hard pressed these more recent years to find the faith to believe that his punishment would be worse in the afterlife. No a painful and horrifing death seems to merciful, kind even. In a more perfect world I would rather see him helped, allowed time to understand the wrongs he had committed and be allowed to live in a lifetime of guilt for them. It would also seem I'm losing my taste for extravigent and bloody revenge. Piranhas, or being drawn and quartered can only serve to make our own society more evil. I hope he has a long and healthy life detained somewere isolated from all but rats, or a quick and painless death so that his last expierence in his life is gentle, may his death know what his life did not.

As for the children that died my thoughts are with them, for the childcare workers that tryed to defend them they truly are brave.

Andres

01-23-2009, 21:14

More information in English (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5572617.ece).

From Times OnlineJanuary 23, 2009

Babies and adult killed in knife attack at Belgian nursery
( Yves Herman/Reuters)
Adults were injured as they tried to put themselves between the attacker and the children

David Charter in Dendermonde, Belgium
A crazed knife attacker, his eyes blackened and his face painted white, tricked his way into a children’s day care centre and killed two babies and a female childminder in a stabbing spree which left ten more youngsters injured with slash wounds today.

The assailant, thought to be a psychiatric patient, was said by police to have sought out the youngest among the 21 children aged one to three who were being looked after at the 'Storyland' crèche.

Three more female members of staff were hacked in the arms and legs by the knifeman as they heroically tried to defend the toddlers, some of whom had been sleeping in cots when the frenzied attack began.

The man, aged around 25, was last night being held by Belgian police who caught him at a nearby supermarket about an hour-and-a-half after he began his murderous rampage in the sleepy town of Dendermonde, 20 miles north-west of Brussels.

The guy just went crazy,” said Theo Janssens, the deputy mayor. “There was blood everywhere, it was unbelievable, real carnage.” With tears streaming from his eyes, he added: “He went straight for the babies and attacked them. The smallest ones were in their beds, they were probably asleep. The two who were killed were just babies.” The latest gruesome child murder to blight Belgium began at around 10am when the doorbell rang at the Fabeltjesland nursery in the St Gillis suburb of this 42,000-strong town.

It is not clear whether the visitor could be seen before he had talked his way in, reportedly by insisting that he had a message to deliver to someone. Witnesses described him as unusually tall and thin, with ginger hair and his face painted white with the eyes blackened out, possibly also wearing a bullet-proof vest.

The assailant immediately made for the youngest children as the all-female staff tried valiantly to protect them. One child and one adult died at the scene and another baby died later in hospital.

The man fled by bicycle and was arrested by police either in or near a nearby supermarket. He was reportedly wounded during his arrest. He is said not to have any known connection with the daycare centre.

“An act of great brutality has happened here against our weakest citizens,” said Buyse Piet, the mayor. “The whole city is united in support for the parents who are in deep grief.” Parents ran sobbing through the streets to the crèche as word spread of the attack and the air was filled with ambulance sirens and the clatter of search helicopters.

It took around half-an-hour for the first of a fleet of ambulances to reach the scene and begin ferrying the wounded to several hospitals where doctors performed at least ten operations.

Christian Du Four, the local prosecutor, added: “He quickly pulled out a knife and started using it on the children. He then went up to another floor and started doing the same thing again.”

Damien Vernon, a 43-year-old from Ireland who has lived in Dendermonde for five years, said: “It is just a sad day here, we are a small town and the crime figures are low here. We are just in shock.”

Dr Ignace Demeyer, director of Aalst hospital six miles away, said that ten children and two adults arrived with serious stab wounds, all requiring surgery, and that all were now in a stable condition. He said that the attack was very violent and that the children had multiple stab wounds all over their bodies.

Mr Demeyer added that 21 children were at the daycare centre at the time of the attack and nine were unharmed.

The town used a nearby community centre to provide psychological counselling to victims and witnesses of the stabbings, while parents gathered in the town hall.

It is the latest in a string of gruesome child murders in Belgium, where the paedophile Marc Dutroux killed four girls in the 1990s and Genevieve Lhermitte cut the throats of all her five children last year.

Article in Dutch (http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Belgie/article/detail/637883/2009/01/23/Dader-steekpartij-Dendermonde-is-amper-20.dhtml)

It says that the killer is only 20, did not have a criminal record, is not somebody who escaped from a mental institution, was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Apparently, he refuses to cooperate and he mocks the policemen who are questioning him.

I'm speechless...

Vladimir

01-23-2009, 21:21

It is not clear whether the visitor could be seen before he had talked his way in, reportedly by insisting that he had a message to deliver to someone. Witnesses described him as unusually tall and thin, with ginger hair and his face painted white with the eyes blackened out, possibly also wearing a bullet-proof vest.

Either way, Bravo! Who let this guy in?

Devastatin Dave

01-23-2009, 21:24

As this guy is a psychiatric patient, it may well be the second, and as such can't really be judged as evil even though they may do evil...

Oh brother...

HoreTore

01-23-2009, 21:38

Oh brother...

Right Dave. I'll indulge you; we should punish people for doing evil things, but how can we punish people who don't know what they're doing? They belong in psychiatric institutions, we can't apply the same standards for people who know what they're doing and people who haven't a clue. A person may commit evil, but how can you punish him when he haven't got the faintest idea of what they're doing? Are we to punish them purely out of malice and vengeance?

There is a reason we have prisons, and there is also a reason why we have institutions for psychiatric patients. But hey, if you want to spend your life foaming, be my guest. As long as you have no way of influencing the society I live in, I don't care.

note: this may not apply to this particular case anymore....

Devastatin Dave

01-23-2009, 21:49

Right Dave. I'll indulge you; we should punish people for doing evil things, but how can we punish people who don't know what they're doing? They belong in psychiatric institutions, we can't apply the same standards for people who know what they're doing and people who haven't a clue. A person may commit evil, but how can you punish him when he haven't got the faintest idea of what they're doing? Are we to punish them purely out of malice and vengeance?

There is a reason we have prisons, and there is also a reason why we have institutions for psychiatric patients. But hey, if you want to spend your life foaming, be my guest. As long as you have no way of influencing the society I live in, I don't care.

note: this may not apply to this particular case anymore....

No offense, but you're the type of guy that, once the nuts are locked up in the looney bin, would be the first one screaming from the high heavens that they should not be locked up. SO what's the point in argueing with you. There was a time when this sort nut would be safely tuck away in an asylum but folks like you have unleashed these crazies and now the truelly innocent must suffer your bleeding heart. Take it for what its worth, i could give two :daisy: how "uncaring" or "intolerant" you may think I am. If one of these ******* were to stab my kids to death, I wouldn't seek vengence on the nutbag only, I'd kill the bleeding hearts (judges, social workers)that allowed this waste of human flesh to breath the free air.

rory_20_uk

01-23-2009, 21:52

Right Dave. I'll indulge you; we should punish people for doing evil things, but how can we punish people who don't know what they're doing? They belong in psychiatric institutions, we can't apply the same standards for people who know what they're doing and people who haven't a clue. A person may commit evil, but how can you punish him when he haven't got the faintest idea of what they're doing? Are we to punish them purely out of malice and vengeance?

There is a reason we have prisons, and there is also a reason why we have institutions for psychiatric patients. But hey, if you want to spend your life foaming, be my guest. As long as you have no way of influencing the society I live in, I don't care.

note: this may not apply to this particular case anymore....

I disagree.

He falls into one of two categories:

Sane - therefore evil, and deserving of retribution
Insane. The damaged goods needs to be disposed of.

I'd not be overly fussed about giving the injection if required. I'd be doing more for the good of society than I do most days.

~:smoking:

Devastatin Dave

01-23-2009, 21:56

I disagree.

He falls into one of two categories:

Sane - therefore evil, and deserving of retribution
Insane. The damaged goods needs to be disposed of.

~:smoking:

I wrote an essay and you summed everything up with 4 sentences and had a smoke to boot. You're awesome.:2thumbsup:

Tribesman

01-23-2009, 22:13

So Rory , in your medical opinion would someone who said things like

I wouldn't seek vengence on the nutbag only, I'd kill the bleeding hearts (judges, social workers)that allowed this waste of human flesh to breath the free air.

be sectionable and as such are they damaged goods that you would inject to dispose of ? .

rory_20_uk

01-23-2009, 22:26

Words, not actions. Rather a cavernous difference. And speaking in a theoretical state of events in a situation where histrionics are the norm.

Sectionable? Danger to themselves or others. I see no evidence based on this small amount of information to judge, to be honest. I am unable to section an individual - I would need about three others to undertake a face-to-face review of the individual and that can take an hour or more.

~:smoking:

CountArach

01-23-2009, 22:31

What a :daisy: .

Its things like this that make me wish hell existed just so people could burn in it.

Rhyfelwyr

01-23-2009, 22:32

Take him out, shoot him, no more threat to society. :yes:

Lorenzo_H

01-23-2009, 22:40

Sick. What makes me feel sicker is I know that we all have the capacity, if not the intention, to commit such things.

ICantSpellDawg

01-24-2009, 00:37

Sick. What makes me feel sicker is I know that we all have the capacity, if not the intention, to commit such things.

I think that I could "let go" and kill a guy, but I can't forsee a situation in which I would "let go" by painting my face and riding my bike to a nursery to stab babies and caretakers to death for no reason.

Tribesman

01-24-2009, 00:38

Words, not actions. Rather a cavernous difference.
ah so you would have to wait for the killing before you did it .
So that means you would then be a target of peolple who say ...

I'd kill the bleeding hearts (judges, social workers)that allowed this waste of human flesh to breath the free air.
See you have to kill the nuts before they go really nutty or you will feel the terrible vengenge of Dave

Rhyfelwyr

01-24-2009, 00:43

Sick. What makes me feel sicker is I know that we all have the capacity, if not the intention, to commit such things.

As much as I like your taste in avatars, I have to admit I don't agree on this. Sure I'd kill someone in a war no problem but this is absolutedy sick, I would never do what this creep did, there is nothing that would ever make me want to do that. :no:

Evil_Maniac From Mars

01-24-2009, 06:56

In contrast to earlier reporting, apparently the perpetrator had no psychiatric history.

Megas Methuselah

01-24-2009, 07:02

This is nauseating. That guy is one sick waste of flesh.

Meneldil

01-24-2009, 10:02

As much as I like your taste in avatars, I have to admit I don't agree on this. Sure I'd kill someone in a war no problem but this is absolutedy sick, I would never do what this creep did, there is nothing that would ever make me want to do that. :no:

Many Nazis or Japanese soldiers did far worse between 1935 and 1945, yet they apparently weren't psycho or whatever else. I guess this is kind of topic, but I'm pretty sure anybody could do that.

What is for me completely disturbing is that you cannot really hate that kind of guy. Most likely, his brain is not working as it should and he couldn't be considered an human being anymore. So he did that, that's horrible and he probably deserves to die, but he's already not living per se.

As far as I find this event sick and disgusting, I still find it less disturbing than stories about mass-rape led by a 15year old dude. When the first is ****** because he's crazy, the second is ****** up because he has no sense of reality.

rory_20_uk

01-24-2009, 12:29

ah so you would have to wait for the killing before you did it .
So that means you would then be a target of people who say ...

See you have to kill the nuts before they go really nutty or you will feel the terrible vengeance of Dave

Perhaps I am incorrect, but Dave appears to list those that after the event would not enforce a death sentence on the individual. I doubt that a judge has anything to do with this person prior to the act.

"Bleeding hearts" generally seem to apply to those who try to lessen the act, or alternatively place the true blame with others.

There are an extremely small number of "nuts" that should be killed, but Medicine can not identify these with any sensitivity or specificity, leading to large numbers of false positives and false negatives.

~:smoking:

KukriKhan

01-24-2009, 14:59

Reports say the perp was 20, and from the area. This site (http://www.fotootjes.be/) has pix of the town's (Sint-Gillis) annual flower parade from 2005. I wonder if any of those then-15 year old marchers were our guy?

For example, one of these fellas:
https://jimcee.homestead.com/IMG_1833.jpg

Regardless, hearts and minds, prayers and best wishes to the victims and families - indeed the community. Craziness happens (not defending it or lessening the impact; just observing), seemingly at random, everywhere - usually without warning.

Picking defenseless women and childrenas targets seems particularly despicable. I guess he'd have had far less "success" in a pub full of men. That, and the face make-up, leads me to believe he gave this whole episode considerable forethought - not just a sudden *snap* "I'll kill a bunch o'people today!".

Seamus Fermanagh

01-24-2009, 15:56

Many Nazis or Japanese soldiers did far worse between 1935 and 1945, yet they apparently weren't psycho or whatever else. I guess this is kind of topic, but I'm pretty sure anybody could do that.

Coming from cultures that trained them to think in terms of "untermenschen," during a prolonged and horrific war wherein killing had become a commonplace...

Yes, the potential to be an amoral killer resides in all of us. I would argue that, for a large majority of us, the number of factors that have to align to shift us into "amoral killer" mode is fairly large. Witness all of the veterans who cope with bouts of PTSD after participating in "kill or be killed" situations -- even when they were themselves threatened, there is still some sense of remorse at having taken life.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

01-24-2009, 16:21

Sane or insane, lock him up and throw away the key.

Death is a release, not a punishment, and some horrible torture would say more about us than him.

rory_20_uk

01-24-2009, 16:50

Sane or insane, lock him up and throw away the key.

Death is a release, not a punishment, and some horrible torture would say more about us than him.

Locking him up is a waste of resources. There's also a risk he could escape. He can't if he's dead.
A 20 year old would be on average a great candidate for organ donation. The remnants that can't be reused can then be discarded.

~:smoking:

HoreTore

01-24-2009, 16:51

rory_20_uk

01-24-2009, 16:59

The thread title is wrong.

Apologies for trying to help society and not mollycoddle child murderers.

~:smoking:

Rhyfelwyr

01-24-2009, 17:24

Strike For The South

01-24-2009, 18:01

Locking him up is a waste of resources. There's also a risk he could escape. He can't if he's dead.
A 20 year old would be on average a great candidate for organ donation. The remnants that can't be reused can then be discarded.

~:smoking:

Death is never "to good" for anyone. Especially when there are people who could actually use his organs for good.

You kill infants and it shouldn't be a question. Besides locking him up in the loony bin will only put the docile crazies at risk.

Tribesman

01-24-2009, 18:01

A 20 year old would be on average a great candidate for organ donation. The remnants that can't be reused can then be discarded.

Good idea , you have said you want to leave britain and do medicine elsewhere .
Have you considered China as a nice place to practice where you can harvest organs from criminals ?

rory_20_uk

01-24-2009, 18:07

Good idea , you have said you want to leave britain and do medicine elsewhere .
Have you considered China as a nice place to practice where you can harvest organs from criminals ?

Heh that gave me a laugh.
I'm currently sitting in front of my PC. I am allowed whatever personal views I want. When I am at work I've my "NHS GP" hat on and I, like a good little choirboy, sing from the hym-sheet.

Leave the No Hope Service? Sure - as soon as my training is over. I'm not going to stick around in this dump getting screwed around by politicians and their managers. I'm sick to the back teeth of it.

But whether I'll practice medicine at all is the $1,000,000 question... depends purely on what job pays the best.

~:smoking:

Tribesman

01-24-2009, 22:49

Leave the No Hope Service? Sure - as soon as my training is over. I'm not going to stick around in this dump getting screwed around by politicians and their managers. I'm sick to the back teeth of it.

Yes the NHS is getting screwed over , like for example by people who get the taxpayer to fund all their training and then bugger off .

rory_20_uk

01-24-2009, 23:56

Yes the NHS is getting screwed over , like for example by people who get the taxpayer to fund all their training and then bugger off .

Accountants get their training from their company. So the people that use the accountants indirectly pay.
Many lawyers get their training paid by the firm - indirectly from the clients
Management consultants can get training to the tune of £30,000 a year, and that's not including a company funded MBA. Who pays? The client.

Funnily enough I'm not a serf. I can go where I choose. If others place higher value on me than the NHS does, then great. Perhaps the government should increase the salaries to keep the staff.

~:smoking:

Devastatin Dave

01-25-2009, 00:31

Yes the NHS is getting screwed over , like for example by people who get the taxpayer to fund all their training and then bugger off .

But atleast those people are still providing a service and making something of themselves unlike many that suck off the government's teet.

Tribesman

01-25-2009, 03:14

KukriKhan

01-25-2009, 04:12

Hey Dave about all them years you was sucking off the government , if you were not afraid of flying and had opted for training to fly how many years would the government expect you to serve after training so it gets its monies worth out of the investment and isn't just subsidising the airlines by having pilots bugger off to the private sector as soon as they get their licence ?

Yeah. It must really tick your average non-emigrating Galwegian off: all those Irishmen born, raised, and nurtured of the sod... moving to Canada, America, Australia, and god-knows-where-alia, seeking their own selfish fortune, while the steadfast, stay-home types work their fingers to-the-bone, the bone I say! - building a country into something of which to be proud.

Ingrates.

Rebels.

Non-appreciative, subsidized, resource-suckers.

Non return-on-investment leeches.

Were I such a ticked-off Galwegian, the sheer weight of history might impell me to paint my face, and...

gosh. I dunno what.

Tribesman

01-25-2009, 04:52

Yeah. It must really tick your average non-emigrating Galwegian off:
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Would you like to guess how many countries I have lived in Kukri ?
How about a guess on what proportion of my life I have spent living and working outside the banana republic ?

Seamus Fermanagh

01-25-2009, 05:03

As Banquo is want to say gentleman, play the ball not the man.

So far, the last few posts have an "edge" to them, which is permissable. Please do not attempt harsher communicative interaction.

rory_20_uk

01-25-2009, 09:55

Hey Dave about all them years you was sucking off the government , if you were not afraid of flying and had opted for training to fly how many years would the government expect you to serve after training so it gets its monies worth out of the investment and isn't just subsidising the airlines by having pilots bugger off to the private sector as soon as they get their licence ?

An issue since commerciall airlines started. As you yourself point out, they can state long term contracts of service if they like.

Perhaps if they do this the number of pilots will decrease too far.

It seems it's been a swipe at me, now a swipe at Dave. Both are legally doing jobs and not breaking employment law.

Both jobs serve a purpose. Why not have a dig at the MEPs or the mass of back-room paper shufflers?

~:smoking:

Banquo's Ghost

01-25-2009, 10:04

Since we have long since stopped discussing this topic, it has decided to retire and start a new career in Bhutan.

:closed: