Hellenistic rulers: conceivable epithets [Archive]

Lysimachos

01-24-2009, 13:53

The custom of numbering rulers for distinction was not introduced yet in ancient times, so epithets were used to distinguish rulers with the same name, like Soter, Philadelphos, Epiphanes or Nikator. These also served to create a certain impression about the given rulers personality or exploits.
As we are altering history in our games I think it would only be appropriate for our rulers to receive epithets, too, ones that might not have been actually used, but are conceivable enough to assume they could have been.:book:

As some of you perhaps know am I writing a seleucid AAR now and then. Until now I have used historical epithets for my kings, because they were already born at the campaign's start, but this will change once non-historical kings get their turn. So, now I decided to open this threat as kind of a brainstorming about how a hellenistic ruler might call himself and I'm counting on our ancient greek experts to help with the correct translation :beam:

I've been thinking about things like "the enlightened" or "the benevolent", but I seem to be lacking imagination and inspiration at the moment, so I'd like to hear your ideas. :yes:
Please help to give all our hellenistic kings more personality and share your wisdom! :2thumbsup:

gamegeek2

01-24-2009, 14:52

Soter, Nikator, an name based on one's homeland/hometown (eg. Persikos, Baktrios, Athenaios), Theos, Philometor, Philopator, Epiphanes, Eupator, many more...

KozaK13

01-24-2009, 14:56

What about colours? like Antiochus the red (in greek obviously, i know no greek other than what i have seen in eb)...could be awfuly sun burnt or a drunkard etc.
Short, tall, fat, strong, smart

Far sighted would be good for a meticulously planning FM.

Macilrille

01-24-2009, 15:06

Stolen from Wiki as I am not Hellenistic expert.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes
He assumed divine epithets, which no other Hellenistic king had done, such as Theos Epiphanes("God Manifest") and after his defeat of Egypt, Nikephoros("Bearer of Victory")[2]. But his often eccentric behavior, capricious actions and even insanity led some of his contemporaries to call him Epimanes ("The Mad One"), a word play off of his title Epiphanes.

He was the one invading Ptolomaic Egypt to be met on the way to Alexrandria by an old Roman and his cane...

Easier to be Roman, campaign somewhere and get/take that name, Scipio Africanus most famously.

antisocialmunky

01-24-2009, 15:35

Εξαιρετικά ο μακρύς

Lysimachos

01-24-2009, 19:50

Thanks to all of you for your contributions, but, urm...
What does this mean?

Εξαιρετικά ο μακρύς

Olaf Blackeyes

01-24-2009, 22:33

Is that Greek or Russian?

Subotan

01-25-2009, 00:00

Is that Greek or Russian?

LOL Greek Btw, the script with which Russia is written with is Cyrillic.

I like Monophthalmos.

Silence Hunter

01-25-2009, 00:39

A bit off-topic but I had a really cool Arverni FM with the title oi Neamha. Neamha meaning the berserker. He also had a couple of interesting traits like loving to have blood baths...

Cambyses

01-25-2009, 01:08

I know he wasnt Greek, but once you get a Roman emperor called Caligula then surely its time to leave all these grandiose clever titles by the wayside.

antisocialmunky

01-25-2009, 05:10

Thanks to all of you for your contributions, but, urm...
What does this mean?

Something about being 'very long.'

gamegeek2

01-25-2009, 05:44

Something about being 'very long.'

Wow, I suppose that might be good for the gym-runner dude?

Maion Maroneios

01-26-2009, 13:18

Something about being 'very long.'
Actually, that means 'exceptionaly long'. More appropriate would be ΜΑΚΡΥΣ (long) or ΜΑΚΡΥΤΑΤΟΣ (longest), even though I don't think it was used for height.

'The Red' would be 'ΕΡΥΘΡΟΣ' and 'Enlightened' would be (I believe) 'ΠΕΦΩΤΙΣΜΕΝΟΣ'. I'll have to think about other ones:book:

Maion

V.T. Marvin

01-26-2009, 13:35

This is a very intersting thread, especially for all AAR writers, so I would like to ask the greek-speakers for a few more:
"Freedom-giver" - would that be "Eleutheroforos"?
"Conqueror of India" - would that be "Indikoiketes"? (a la Demetrios Poliorketes :inquisitive:???)
"The Founder" - ???
"The Pater Patrie" - ???
"The Lackland" - ???
"The Protector" - ???
"The Liberator" - ???
"The Cruel" - ???
"The Conqueror" - ???
"The Warmonger" - ???
"The Cruel" - ???
"The Vanquisher of Parthians/Medes/Persians" - ???

Basicaly whatever comes to your mind, throw it out here! :whip::yes:

Maion Maroneios

01-26-2009, 14:29

This is a very intersting thread, especially for all AAR writers, so I would like to ask the greek-speakers for a few more:
"Freedom-giver" - Eleutherodotes (ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΟΔΟΤΗΣ)
"Conqueror of India" - Kataktetes Indias (ΚΑΤΑΚΤΗΤΗΣ ΙΝΔΙΑΣ)
"The Founder" - Propator or Protoktistes (ΠΡΟΠΑΤΩΡ, ΠΡΩΤΟΚΤΙΣΤΗΣ)
"The Pater Patrie" - Pater Patridos (ΠΑΤΗΡ ΠΑΤΡΙΔΟΣ)
"The Lackland" - Not sure about that one
"The Protector" - Proaspistes would be fine (ΠΡΟΑΣΠΙΣΤΗΣ)
"The Liberator" - Apeleutherotes (ΑΠΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΩΤΗΣ)
"The Cruel" - Baryphron (ΒΑΡΥΦΡΩΝ)
"The Conqueror" - Kataktetes (ΚΑΤΑΚΤΗΤΗΣ)
"The Warmonger" - Not sure here, but 'Polemochares' (ΠΟΛΕΜΟΧΑΡΗΣ) (war-loving) would be a good subtitute
"The Vanquisher of Parthians/Medes/Persians" - Nikesas Parthon/Medon/Person (ΝΙΚΗΣΑΣ ΠΑΡΘΩΝ/ΜΗΔΩΝ/ΠΕΡΣΩΝ)
Here, see the bold parts. Oh and good luck with your AAR again mate:thumbsup:

Maion

machinor

01-26-2009, 14:41

I think he meant "pater patriae", "father of the fatherland/homeland".

Maion Maroneios

01-26-2009, 14:43

Edited that one, thanks machinor:thumbsup:

Maion

HunGeneral

01-26-2009, 15:04

Well I seem to have a few ideas:

Maybe...
"The butcher"
"The horseman"
"The Elder, The younger" (not to original but it could fitt)
"The warrior" - maybe ideal for Spartans:laugh4:
"The poet"
"The philosopher"
"The builder"
"The slayer of barbarians" (maybe:sweatdrop:)

Not all are truly positive but there have to be names for other Hellenistic rulers or not so great Kings..

machinor

01-26-2009, 15:06

You're welcome.
Regarding "freedom-giver"... couldn't that also be called Apeleuther...something? Since the Apeleutheroi are "those who are freed" and the "freedom-giver" would be "the one who sets free" or something.

Maion Maroneios

01-26-2009, 15:15

Well I seem to have a few ideas:

Maybe...
"The butcher" - Sphageus (ΣΦΑΓΕΥΣ)
"The horseman" - Ippeus (ΙΠΠΕΥΣ)
"The Elder, The younger" (not to original but it could fitt) - Ho Geraioteros, Ho Neoteros (Ο ΓΗΡΑΙΟΤΕΡΟΣ, Ο ΝΕΟΤΕΡΟΣ)
"The warrior" - maybe ideal for Spartans:laugh4: - Polemistes (ΠΟΛΕΜΙΣΤΗΣ)
"The poet" - Poietes (ΠΟΙΗΤΗΣ)
"The philosopher" - Philosophos (ΦΙΛΟΣΟΦΟΣ)
"The builder" - Dometor or Ktistes (ΔΟΜΗΤΩΡ, ΚΤΙΣΤΗΣ)
"The slayer of barbarians" (maybe:sweatdrop:) - Barbaroktonos (ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΚΤΟΝΟΣ)

Not all are truly positive but there have to be names for other Hellenistic rulers or not so great Kings..
Here.

You're welcome.
Regarding "freedom-giver"... couldn't that also be called Apeleuther...something? Since the Apeleutheroi are "those who are freed" and the "freedom-giver" would be "the one who sets free" or something.
Not that I know of. Apeleutherotes could only be used, which, as I mentioned, means 'Liberator'.

Maion

machinor

01-26-2009, 15:22

Oh. I comlpetely overlooked "Liberator". :sweatdrop:

Lysimachos

01-26-2009, 16:05

I see this is developing nicely, this is exactly what I had in mind when opening the thread. Thanks for all ideas and especially for the translations! Keep 'em coming! ~:thumb:

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

01-26-2009, 20:28

Nice thread! I just broke my empire for a civil war. Can you tell me the names for the two rivalling factions?

Makedonian Nobles = Eugeneis Makedonikoi ?

Makedonian Royalists = ??? Makedonikoi ?

Maion Maroneios

01-26-2009, 22:00

Nice thread! I just broke my empire for a civil war. Can you tell me the names for the two rivalling factions?

Makedonian Nobles = Eugeneis Makedones

Makedonian Royalists = Makedones Basilophrones
Cool Centurio! See bold parts for the translations.

Maion

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

01-27-2009, 02:51

Thx Maion. :2thumbsup:

V.T. Marvin

01-27-2009, 08:14

Thank you, Maion! You really deserve a balloon for this, so here you are :balloon2: :bow:

Maion Maroneios

01-27-2009, 15:04

Thanks dude!:birthday2:

Maion

Tellos Athenaios

01-27-2009, 15:27

Founder of a dynasty typically seems to have been "Ktistes". Maion has actually chosen "the builder" (idru- refers to buildings) which is useful for founder of a city.. I'm missing Euergetes, though.

Maion Maroneios

01-27-2009, 18:49

(idru- refers to buildings) I'm missing Euergetes, though.
Not always and Euergetes should be here as well:tongue:

Maion

HunGeneral

01-27-2009, 18:59

desert

01-27-2009, 21:29

Oooh, I know some good ones!

If your FM is a coward and/or flees the battlefield, here are some choice epithets:

Rhipsaspis - shield-tosser

Apobolimaios - thrower-awayer

Tresas - Trembler [As in, he trembles while in formation (I guess)]

Maion Maroneios

01-27-2009, 23:06

I thought on one more possibility: if one of the diadochi kingdoms shloud unite ALL of what Alexadner has conquered the ruler who complited it could be called "the Strongest" ins reference to Alexanders last words. (Would something like that sound accepteable?)
That's a good idea, but there are tons of epithets that could be given to the Faction Leader of the Diadochoi Kingdom that re-creates Alexandros' old empire. This includes, of course, 'Megas' (The Great) and 'Basileus ton Basileon' (King of Kings).

Maion

HunGeneral

01-27-2009, 23:41

That's a good idea, but there are tons of epithets that could be given to the Faction Leader of the Diadochoi Kingdom that re-creates Alexandros' old empire. This includes, of course, 'Megas' (The Great) and 'Basileus ton Basileon' (King of Kings).

Youre right about that. However I was thinking of it as a "second epithet". Like Macilrille mentioned Antiochus IV had several epithets.

I might just aswell give an exampel of what I mean since I'm not sure if I can describe it clearly: someting like "Megas (xy-insert name) The srtongest". The last part is reserved for the King who completes the unification and only for him. I can't really remember what gave me the Idea but if I remember I might post it - but I'm quite sure it wasn't greek.

By the way isn't Basileus ton Basileon a title? I believe used by some of the seleukid rulers or am I wrong?

Macilrille

01-28-2009, 00:50

If they were Danish/Norwegian/Swedish 8th- 12th Century they could have names such as

Tveskæg (Forkbeard)
Blåtand (Bluetooth, yes that IS where the tech has its name from)
Blodøkse (Bloodaxe)
Sejrssjæl (Victorious Soul- as in ever victorious, NOT pious)
Hårfager (Longhair/Fairhair)
Hårderåde (Hard Ruler or Hard Council)
Den Gode (The Good)
Kesje (a special spear of that name)
Snare (Fast/mentally eloquent/Brave/First to action)
Hvide (White/fair)
Trylle (The Sorcerer)
Orm i Øje (Snake Eye, sharp/penetrating Glance)
Lodbrog (Hairy Breeches)
Krake (Ladder/Tall and gangly)

Those were just on top of my head and some might be relevant to Diadochii rulers as well, but in Greek instead of Danish/Norse.

Maion Maroneios

01-28-2009, 01:01

Youre right about that. However I was thinking of it as a "second epithet". Like Macilrille mentioned Antiochus IV had several epithets.

I might just aswell give an exampel of what I mean since I'm not sure if I can describe it clearly: someting like "Megas (xy-insert name) The srtongest". The last part is reserved for the King who completes the unification and only for him. I can't really remember what gave me the Idea but if I remember I might post it - but I'm quite sure it wasn't greek.
I see, so you're looking for somehting like: Megas X ho Dynatotatos, were X represents the guy's name. In stead of Dynatotatos (which is the superlative of Dynatos, which means 'Strong' in Greek), you could use Ischyrotatos.

By the way isn't Basileus ton Basileon a title? I believe used by some of the seleukid rulers or am I wrong?
Well, Megas is also a title as well as an epithet, if you get my meaning. It was used by Seleucid kings, yes. But it was also used by the Pahlavans (Shahansablabla something) and other nations, including the Achaemenid Persians.

Maion

Maion Maroneios

01-28-2009, 01:11

Tveskæg (Forkbeard)
Blåtand (Bluetooth, yes that IS where the tech has its name from)
Blodøkse (Bloodaxe)
Sejrssjæl (Victorious Soul- as in ever victorious, NOT pious) - Nikephoros, or bringer of victory (ΝΙΚΗΦΟΡΟΣ)
Hårfager (Longhair/Fairhair) - Euplokamos (ΕΥΠΛΟΚΑΜΟΣ)
Hårderåde (Hard Ruler or Hard Council) - Skleros, or harsh would be fine (ΣΚΛΗΡΟΣ)
Den Gode (The Good) - Agathos (ΑΓΑΘΟΣ)
Kesje (a special spear of that name) - ?
Snare (Fast/mentally eloquent/Brave/First to action) - Gennaios or Andreios (ΓΕΝΝΑΙΟΣ, ΑΝΔΡΕΙΟΣ)
Hvide (White/fair) - Kalos (ΚΑΛΟΣ)
Trylle (The Sorcerer)
Orm i Øje (Snake Eye, sharp/penetrating Glance)
Lodbrog (Hairy Breeches)
Krake (Ladder/Tall and gangly). - Eumekes (ΕΥΜΗΚΗΣ)
OK, some of them would certainly NOT been used by Hellenistic monarchs, so I've erased them.

Maion

HunGeneral

01-28-2009, 02:06

I see, so you're looking for somehting like: Megas X ho Dynatotatos, were X represents the guy's name. In stead of Dynatotatos (which is the superlative of Dynatos, which means 'Strong' in Greek), you could use Ischyrotatos.

Exactly.
Thanks for the translation - I might use it one day:idea2:

I remembered where I got this Idea of two or a second epithet reserved for one ruler... and I remembered right that it had nothing to do with Hellenes or the timeframe of EB:
It was something like "Great King Attila Scourge of God".
I remember to have heard it several times and that "supposedly" both Epithets are reserved for him, however it was made after his death or in the last years of his life - but I'm not sure.

Βελισάριος

01-28-2009, 08:11

Maion, I hope you don't feel like we're abusing you, but on behalf of those of us who don't know much Greek, Ευχαριστώ!

What about:
The Defiant
Dauntless/Fearless
Conqueror of the Seas
Unrelenting/Determinate
And, of course, my favourite:
The Invincible
(and, for my curiosity, can you give me the above in female form too?)
Also:
Kinslayer

Maion Maroneios

01-28-2009, 13:08

Maion, I hope you don't feel like we're abusing you, but on behalf of those of us who don't know much Greek, Ευχαριστώ!
Certainly not my friend. If you did, I wouldn't be answering now, would I?:beam: Anyway, you are most welcome. So Παρακαλώ from me:beam:

What about:
The Defiant - Periphronetes (ΠΕΡΙΦΡΟΝΗΤΗΣ)
Dauntless/Fearless - Aphobos (ΑΦΟΒΟΣ)
Conqueror of the Seas - Thalassokrator (ΘΑΛΑΣΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Unrelenting/Determinate - Hypoleptos (ΥΠΟΛΗΠΤΟΣ)
And, of course, my favourite:
The Invincible - Aaptos (musculine) (ΑΑΠΤΟΣ), Aapte (feminine) (ΑΑΠΤΗ) or Athanatos, -e (ΑΘΑΝΑΤΟΣ, -Η)
(and, for my curiosity, can you give me the above in female form too?)
Also:
Kinslayer - Engenoktonos (ΕΝΓΕΝΟΚΤΟΝΟΣ)
Here.

Maion

ziegenpeter

01-28-2009, 14:54

Wow, great work Maion!
What about "the EB-Fanboy"?

...just kidding.

Maion Maroneios

01-28-2009, 16:18

Wow, great work Maion!
Thank you!:bow:

What about "the EB-Fanboy"?

...just kidding.
:tongue:

Maion

Βελισάριος

01-28-2009, 17:58

My friend, you are a treat! This is quite productive.

One more thing. If Aaptos is in feminine Aapte, then Hypoleptos would be Hypolepte, and Aphobos- Aphobe, yes? But what about Periphronetes and Thalassokrates?

Oh, and slightly off-topic, playing around with a few words I made up an "epithet" for a Getai ruler (by the way, how would you say "of the Getai" in Greek?). By using a word that is supposedly of Getic origin, I called him Heros per Belauros (which would mean Heros, son of the Dragon).

Maion Maroneios

01-28-2009, 18:20

My friend, you are a treat! This is quite productive.
Thanks!:bow: It would be good if someone could make a list of it as well:yes:

One more thing. If Aaptos is in feminine Aapte, then Hypoleptos would be Hypolepte, and Aphobos- Aphobe, yes? But what about Periphronetes and Thalassokrates?
Correct. The feminine form of the two epithets you mentioned would be Periphronesa and Thalassokrateisa respectively.

Oh, and slightly off-topic, playing around with a few words I made up an "epithet" for a Getai ruler (by the way, how would you say "of the Getai" in Greek?). By using a word that is supposedly of Getic origin, I called him Heros per Belauros (which would mean Heros, son of the Dragon).
"Of the Getai" would be Getikos in Greek. And cool name you 'invented':wink:

Maion

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

01-29-2009, 00:34

Wow, this thread is worth its Bytes in Gold I'd say... :bow: for little Hellenistic fanboys like us :sweatdrop:

Could you do some more, please? :smiley:
the Uniter
the Weak
the Crippled
the Lame
Ironfist (in the sense of "he who vanquishes his foes and never bows to anybody and forces his law on everybody, you know...)

Yyrkoon

01-29-2009, 03:11

Bad A$$ Motha F***as! :laugh4:

Maion Maroneios

01-29-2009, 10:32

Wow, this thread is worth its Bytes in Gold I'd say... :bow: for little Hellenistic fanboys like us :sweatdrop:

Could you do some more, please? :smiley:
the Uniter - Henopoios (ΕΝΟΠΟΙΟΣ)
the Weak - Adynamos (ΑΔΥΝΑΜΟΣ)
the Crippled - Apoplektos (ΑΠΟΠΛΗΚΤΟΣ)
the Lame - Anaperos (ΑΝΑΠΗΡΟΣ)
Ironfist - Well, this one is tricky. Keravnos had given an answer for that, saying it would be something like 'Ho echon sideran pygmen' (Ο ΕΧΩΝ ΣΙΔΗΡΑΝ ΠΥΓΜΗΝ) or 'he who has an iron fist' in Greek. Sideropygmaios (ΣΙΔΗΡΟΠΥΓΜΑΙΟΣ), which sounds a lot like it, isn't the same, since 'pygmaios' means 'pigmy'.
Here. Note that last part.

Maion

Tellos Athenaios

01-29-2009, 12:16

I'm not sure, because I did not check with a dictionary, but it sounds like you have quite a few adjectives consisting of 2 words. An example would be "Aaptos" (which is A-aptos). Note that these have only 2 diclensions: m/f and n. That is: the masculine form and the feminine form are exactly the same!

Maion Maroneios

01-29-2009, 12:43

I'm not sure, because I did not check with a dictionary, but it sounds like you have quite a few adjectives consisting of 2 words.
Aha, that's correct... So?

An example would be "Aaptos" (which is A-aptos). Note that these have only 2 diclensions: m/f and n. That is: the masculine form and the feminine form are exactly the same!
I know it's A-aptos. It's from apto (which means touch) and with the a before the word, it means 'untouchable'. In other words, invincible. As for the sane form, I'm not sure about that. I'll have to check it:book:

Maion

Olaf Blackeyes

01-29-2009, 15:48

This thread RULES!!!!!!:2thumbsup:

Maion Maroneios

01-29-2009, 17:39

Tellos Athenaios

01-29-2009, 22:03

Just checked and apparently you're wrong, Tellos. Aaptos has both a feminine (Aapte), as well as a neutral (Aapton) form. What you say about 2-word adjectives is not true either, since Thalassokrates (2 words, Thalassa or Sea and Krato, or Rule) is an adjective that is clearly masculine and has a feminine form as well.

Maion

Uhh: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2319

In the case of "aaptos" Perseus' copy of LSJ would disagree with you. Note that this is the only entry to be found for the query "aapt", so that means any exceptional case is pretty much that: exceptional beyond inclusion in an academy-grade dictionary. (Perseus has both Authenrieth (IIRC a Homer specialist work) and Slater too.) Or have you been using a modern Greek dictionary? In which, consider that grammar, especially this kind of grammar isn't a 2300 year old hand-me-down thing. ~;)

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule I mentioned in my previous post (apeiros/hpeiros would be one) but that is because those words are exceptional to begin with; i.e. they represent an entity or quality of their own rather than an aggregrate (consider how you might alternatively translate these adjectives using patches like 'not'; 'strongly'; 'well'; 'fully'). EDIT2: And of course there are those (numerous!) exceptions which are just plain irregular; which is why one should check with a good/exhaustive dictionary and which is why I said I wasn't sure....

EDIT: Ooh and please distinguish between adjectives and nouns. Adjective even when used as nouns are subject to the rule; but 'true' (proper?) nouns are not neccesarily.

Subotan

01-29-2009, 23:19

What would "The Ginger" be?

Silence Hunter

01-29-2009, 23:44

What about "The Regent". There are times when direct heir is still under 16 an thus it's not possible to set him heir. So someone else is acting as a regent.

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

01-30-2009, 00:18

Thank you very much Maion. :2thumbsup: :yes:

Kinda unrelated :clown: but here's the proof for the poor state of unity my empire has slipped into. Blue are the mean, egocentric, greedy criminals that call themselves Nobles, and red are either loyal supporters of the young Basileus Limendas or neutral ones.

https://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5769/makedoniendieweltimjahrnf8.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

SwissBarbar

01-30-2009, 00:42

awesome map! what's that orangy thing in the south of egypt and arabia, next to the sabean, the KH? or did you recolour the ptolies?

A Very Super Market

01-30-2009, 01:41

Umm... what does that map show? I don't really understand it..

Have I missed some special AAR you've done?

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

01-30-2009, 03:00

awesome map! what's that orangy thing in the south of egypt and arabia, next to the sabean, the KH? or did you recolour the ptolies?
The orange one is the Kingdom of Axum, ex Phoinikes, ex Kart-Hadastim. I gave them Tamane in my quest to wipe the Sabaens out.

Umm... what does that map show? I don't really understand it..

Have I missed some special AAR you've done?
The map shows the minimap in my EB game. :laugh4: Check out my AAR when it comes out (perhaps).

antisocialmunky

01-30-2009, 05:22

Ο μόνος εούρησε μεθυσμένος

Maion Maroneios

01-30-2009, 11:27

Uhh: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2319
Ah, thanks for that one. I've got another one of Perseus, though this one seems more detailed:thumbsup:

In the case of "aaptos" Perseus' copy of LSJ would disagree with you. Note that this is the only entry to be found for the query "aapt", so that means any exceptional case is pretty much that: exceptional beyond inclusion in an academy-grade dictionary. (Perseus has both Authenrieth (IIRC a Homer specialist work) and Slater too.) Or have you been using a modern Greek dictionary? In which, consider that grammar, especially this kind of grammar isn't a 2300 year old hand-me-down thing. ~;)
Nah, I'm not using a modern Greek dictionary. I have been taught some basic Ancient Greek at school (Atiic, of course) and I use either my school dictionaries, or on-line ones (more offen). What you say about the grammar is true, Greek (especially Ancient) can be tricky at times:yes: Note that I'm more of the match guy (hence I study Physics:tongue:) than the theoretical one.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule I mentioned in my previous post (apeiros/hpeiros would be one) but that is because those words are exceptional to begin with; i.e. they represent an entity or quality of their own rather than an aggregrate (consider how you might alternatively translate these adjectives using patches like 'not'; 'strongly'; 'well'; 'fully'). EDIT2: And of course there are those (numerous!) exceptions which are just plain irregular; which is why one should check with a good/exhaustive dictionary and which is why I said I wasn't sure....
Aha... Yeah...

EDIT: Ooh and please distinguish between adjectives and nouns. Adjective even when used as nouns are subject to the rule; but 'true' (proper?) nouns are not neccesarily.
Yeah, sorry about that one. I'll sure distinguish them from each other henceforth:yes:

Thanks again for the info, Tellos.

Maion

Maion Maroneios

01-30-2009, 11:32

What would "The Ginger" be?
OK, but I need you to tell me the meaning of the sentence. I mean, there are quite a few meanings of it.

What about "The Regent". There are times when direct heir is still under 16 an thus it's not possible to set him heir. So someone else is acting as a regent.
That would be Antibasileus (short form), or Anti autou Basileus (long form). That literally means, 'In stead of the King'.

Ο μόνος εούρησε μεθυσμένος
For those that do not know what this means: 'Alone he urinated, while being drunk' :laugh4:

Maion

P.S.: You're most welcome, Centurio. Cool map btw, and good luck with your civil war:thumbsup:

Lysimachos

01-30-2009, 17:17

I will surely come back to some of the already mentioned, once it is time, but now I have another one:

What would be "the killer/murderer"?

Maion Maroneios

01-30-2009, 20:21

I will surely come back to some of the already mentioned, once it is time, but now I have another one:
Cool:wink:

What would be "the killer/murderer"?
That would be Phoneus (ΦΟΝΕΥΣ)

Maion

antisocialmunky

01-31-2009, 04:26

καυστήρας γατακιών

Lysimachos

01-31-2009, 09:26

Cool:wink:

That would be Phoneus (ΦΟΝΕΥΣ)

Maion

Thank you, again :beam:
Although you might not remember when the time has come to use the epithets, because I'm planning my AAR in generations rather than updates right now :book:

While we are at it - did we have these:
The Beautiful/Handsome
The Ugly
The Hesitant
The Seefarer
The Wise
The Pious/Devout

καυστήρας γατακιών

Would you please provide translations with your posts? This is not really helpful :no:
Not to imply it would be helpful if there were a translation... ~;)

Maion Maroneios

01-31-2009, 11:53

Thank you, again :beam:
Although you might not remember when the time has come to use the epithets, because I'm planning my AAR in generations rather than updates right now :book:
Aha, that's cool.

While we are at it - did we have these:
The Beautiful/Handsome - As discussed befrore, that would be Kalos (ΚΑΛΟΣ)
The Ugly - Aischros (ΑΙΣΧΡΟΣ)
The Hesitant - Distazon (ΔΙΣΤΑΖΩΝ)
The Seefarer - Nautes (ΝΑΥΤΕΣ)
The Wise - Sophos (ΣΟΦΟΣ)
The Pious/Devout - Eusebes (ΕΥΣΕΒΗΣ)

Would you please provide translations with your posts? This is not really helpful :no:
Not to imply it would be helpful if there were a translation... ~;)
That would be 'Burner of cats' :laugh4:

Maion

Βελισάριος

01-31-2009, 18:53

HunGeneral

01-31-2009, 19:18

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose:sweatdrop:)

machinor

01-31-2009, 21:46

Maion Maroneios

01-31-2009, 22:53

So if "The slayer of barbarians" is "Barbaroktonos (ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΚΤΟΝΟΣ)" then the Slayer of Celts would be Keltoktonos?
[That, by the way, was historically Burebista (or Buruista)'s nickname]

Oh, and what about "Nautes" in feminine? (OK, the reason I keep asking for names in feminine is because I'm making a collection for Greek ship names... taking notes for an Argonaut AAR :p)
Keltoktonos is correct. Don't know about Burebista. As for Nautes, really I'm not sure. I know how it is in modern Greek, though I'm not sure about ancient.

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose:sweatdrop:)
The Lion - Leon
Ruler of the Hellenes - Hellenokrator (ΕΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Ruler of the seas - Thalassokrator (ΘΑΛΑΣΣΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Ruler of the land/world - Gaiokrator/Kosmokrator (ΓΑΙΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ/ΚΟΣΜΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Europe of the Seleucids/Nomads - He ton Seleukeidon/Nomadon Europe (Η ΤΩΝ ΣΕΛΕΥΚΕΙΔΩΝ/ΝΟΜΑΔΩΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ)
Horsemen of the East - Asiatikoi Hippeis or Hippeis ex Asias (ΑΣΙΑΤΙΚΟΙ ΙΠΠΕΙΣ, ΙΠΠΕΙΣ ΕΞ ΑΣΙΑΣ)
Horsemen of Hades - Hadou Hippeis (ΑΔΟΥ ΙΠΠΕΙΣ)

IIRC, "Lion" would be "Leonidas" (ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ). "Ruler of all Hellenes" would probably be "Hellenokrator" (ΈΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ).
Actually, Leonidas (ΛΕΩΝΙΔΑΣ, with an 'omega') is name with reference to a lion.

Maion

Βελισάριος

01-31-2009, 23:09

I vote we sticky this thread.
Thanks again, Maion. Burebista was the uniter of the Getai tribes, contemporary to Caesar, in case you were curious.

As for Nautes... what would it be in modern Greek, then? (feminine too)

Maion Maroneios

02-01-2009, 02:26

Aha, I see. As for the last thing, that would be Nautissa.

Maion

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

02-02-2009, 19:15

Ooops, before I forget: I wanted to give my armies epithets too. Iirc, an army is stratos, right? What would be...

"the Western" (because they have fought at the Pillars of Herakles, pretty big thing for them)? Hesperios perhaps?

"the First (Created)"? Protogonos?

"the Royal / King's Own"? OK that must be Basilikos

"the Loyal / Reliable"?

"the Armoured"? Kataphraktos?

:sweatdrop: :sweatdrop: :sweatdrop:

Maion Maroneios

02-02-2009, 21:26

Ooops, before I forget: I wanted to give my armies epithets too. Iirc, an army is stratos, right?
Yep,that's right.

"the Western" (because they have fought at the Pillars of Herakles, pretty big thing for them)? Hesperios perhaps?
Well, Hesperia was the name the Hellenes gave to America. West is Dyse (ΔΥΣΗ), so maybe it could be Dytikos Stratos, or Western Army

"the First (Created)"? Protogonos?
Protogonos means 'of the first generation'. Now create is 'poio' (ΠΟΙΩ), so I believe it should be Stratos Protopoiethes (ΠΡΩΤΟΠΟΙΗΘΗΣ).

"the Royal / King's Own"? OK that must be Basilikos
Yes, Basilikos Stratos is fine.

"the Loyal / Reliable"?
Pistos Stratos

"the Armoured"? Kataphraktos?
Well, Kataphraktos means 'armored all over'. But it can be used. In that case, it would be, as you correctly stated, Stratos Kataphraktos.

Maion

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

02-02-2009, 21:29

Well, there is the "Periegesis Aithiopion Hesperion", that's why I thought that. The Greeks knew America???

Thank you very much Maion.:2thumbsup:

Tellos Athenaios

02-02-2009, 22:37

I don't think so. But the mythological theme of a distant country separated from the rest of the world by a non-trivial barrier (mountains, deserts, seas) is quite common (the Chinese have their stories about such a country in their West; the Christians later had a story about a certain Presbyterian John somewhere too...) . Anyway back to this 'Hesperia' (night) country, IIRC it is the topos of one of the 12 tasks (if I am not mistaken, the one in which Herakles must fetch apples from the tree given to Hera as a wedding present).

Maion Maroneios

02-03-2009, 00:10

Well, you might not think so but I won't go in debate with you (or anyone for that matter) about this topic. As for Hesperia, it means afternoon. Night is Nyx. What you said about the Heracles-thing is true though.

Maion

Βελισάριος

02-18-2009, 04:17

Ok, so... if lion is Leon, then "The Lion" would be... ?
And what about: The Bull, The Gryphon? The Serpent?

Olaf Blackeyes

02-18-2009, 05:46

Umm what about
1.the demon?
2.the bringer of death?
3.The Greek word for America?
4.the colored/rainbowed one?
5.the restorer?
6.the insane?

desert

02-18-2009, 06:11

the colored/rainbowed one?

Lolwut? Has one of your FMs been "putting the lime in the coconut"?

How would you say "the Beer-Drinker"?

Olaf Blackeyes

02-18-2009, 07:14

Sorry im got some AWESOME weed right now so yeah...
LOL just kidding

Maion Maroneios

02-18-2009, 11:13

Ok, so... if lion is Leon, then "The Lion" would be... ?
And what about: The Bull, The Gryphon? The Serpent?
The Lion would be Leon. Plain, no added stuff. As for Serpent, that would probably be Echydna. Don't know about Gryphon. Anyway, none of them would be used as an epithet for a ruler, mind you. Too fantasy-style if you get me.

Umm what about
1.the demon - Not very sure about that one
2.the bringer of death - You are very into dark stuff aren't you? :inquisitive: Anyway, Aggeliaphoros Thanatou (Messenger of Death) or Thanatophoros
3.The Greek word for America - Esperia
4.the colored/rainbowed one - Polychrous (many-colored) could probably work.
5.the restorer - Could you make this more specific?
6.the insane? - Epimanes

Maion

Maion Maroneios

02-18-2009, 11:16

A small thing I remembered: I don't actually know how the Hellenes called beer (today we call it Mpira), but it has probably something to do with zythos. I'll be back on this one if someone doesn't answer this.

Maion

mini

02-18-2009, 11:27

Pansy should definitely be included.

machinor

02-19-2009, 01:29

Demon would probably simply be Daimon as demon is derived from the Greek word, although "daimon" has a far broader meaining then simply "demon".

Olaf Blackeyes

02-19-2009, 02:24

When i say restorer i mean like restorer of peace/of empire/of good times for all.

Tellos Athenaios

02-19-2009, 04:34

@Maion: 'brutikos'? (As an aside, you are correct: hesperia isn't 'night' rather 'twilight' -> 'evening'.)

A serpent is a drakon, from which, yes, a dragon gets its name. But Serpent does, at least in mythology, not bear the same conotations as it does today; don't think it would be used as an epiteth quite the opposite in fact. (Erichthonios, anyone?)

Maion Maroneios

02-19-2009, 10:03

Demon would probably simply be Daimon as demon is derived from the Greek word, although "daimon" has a far broader meaining then simply "demon".
Daimon means 'God' in Ancient Greek, even if it seems correct. You see, later on it got the meaning of 'evil'.

When i say restorer i mean like restorer of peace/of empire/of good times for all.
I'll get back to that:book:

Maion

machinor

02-19-2009, 18:32

Yeah, but "daimon" could also mean "soul", als in "eudaimonia" or "daimonion" (Sokrates' word for "conscience"). My Greek teacher explained to us that the "basic meaning" connecting all those different meanings was something like "supernatural force or entities that influences men". This also applied to lesser deities or supernatural beings (the major gods were usually called theoi) like demons etc. That was the reason it was applied to the christian concept of demons, since they also could influence men through possessing them.

However, you state of course correctly, that "daimon" would not really have the same connotation as our christian influenced understanding of "demon".