Which is better - Hellenic Cataphracts or Hetairoi?

[Conan]

Well since I'm closed to the reform date line to get the Cataphracts as AS which will be best to recruit?

Hellenic Cataphracts or Hetairoi.

Now I guess pretty obviously that the Cataphracts will have more range weapon resistance and staying power in melee

But do Hetairoi do better?

Thanks

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I think the Kataphraktoi also have maces, so their secondary melee has the AP attribute, which is a nice bonus.

[Maion Maroneios]

Plus, don't forget their superior defense. IMO, the Kataphraktoi are better for a head-on charge and short-term melee, while the Hetairoi are better for longer terms of multiple charges and running around for various purposes except just charging head-on, in which they are no weaklings, mind you.

Maion

[machinor]

Kataphraktoi have better armor/equipment, but Hetairoi have more stamina which equals more possible charges. Furthermore I had some bad experiences with the Kataphraktoi having relatively low morale. They get routed much more easily than Hetairoi, which kind of nullifies their close combat advantage.

If I had to choose, I'd take Kataphraktoi if I need cavalry able to squish enemy infantry lines (kind of like a "Elephantes Light"); Hetairoi if I need good charging and fighting cavalry... an Alexandrinian heavy cavalry so to speak.

[Mediolanicus]

which will be best to recruit?



In short: both.

[bobbin]

I think the Kataphraktoi also have maces, so their secondary melee has the AP attribute, which is a nice bonus.

Both carry a kopis as a secondary weapon and the hetaroi's is more powerful.

second medio's commet they both have their uses.

[gamegeek2]

From EDU

type hellenistic cavalry successor hetairoi
dictionary hellenistic_cavalry_successor_hetairoi ; Hetairoi
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Light_1
soldier hellenistic_cavalry_hetairoi_molossianagema_ponitclatebodyguard, 25, 0, 1
mount hetairoi companion horse
mount_effect elephant -1, chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest
formation 1.5, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 41, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 180 ,0.38
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 11, 22, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.11
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 18, 12, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, metal
stat_heat 5
stat_ground 0, 0, -5, -3
stat_mental 18, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 4613, 1153, 100, 160, 4613
ownership macedon, romans_julii, numidia

type hellenistic cavalry hellenikoi kataphraktoi
dictionary hellenistic_cavalry_hellenikoi_kataphraktoi ; Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Female_1
soldier hellenistic_cavalry_hellenikoikataphraktoi, 25, 0, 1
mount hellenistic kataphraktoi horse
mount_effect elephant -1, chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest
formation 1.5, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 44, no, 0, 0, melee, siege, piercing, spear, 200 ,0.4
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 10, 25, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.11
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 22, 8, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, metal
stat_heat 5
stat_ground 0, 0, -4, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 4021, 1005, 90, 140, 4021
ownership romans_julii, romans_brutii, slave

The kataphraktoi are cheaper, and have more armour, though their defense is the same. The Hetairoi have a stronger secondary weapon, the kataphraktoi have a bit more charge. The hetairoi also have much better morale.

[machinor]

And the Kataphraktoi have female voices...

[antisocialmunky]

They're both great for different tasks. However, Thracian Prodromoi is still my favorite Hellenic Cavalry.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Hetairoi.

[Tudhaliya]

For my Arche Seleukia campaign, I modded in an extra unit: Hysteroi Hetairoi Kataphraktoi. Its like, the best of both worlds! Just slapped a hetairoi on a kataphrakt mount, kept the high morale and defense, made the charge and armor the same as the kataphraktoi and voila. Now, I felt guilty afterwards, like maybe I was cheating, so I made their cost and upkeep 1.5 times the normal Hetairoi, and only with 20 men instead of 25. But they are my favorite unit now, though suprisingly fragile if used incorrectly. But if I'm careful, they can break units without losing a single man (which helps because I can only build them in Seleukia and Antioch and Baktra :/).

[Maion Maroneios]

For my Arche Seleukia campaign, I modded in an extra unit: Hysteroi Hetairoi Kataphraktoi. Its like, the best of both worlds! Just slapped a hetairoi on a kataphrakt mount, kept the high morale and defense, made the charge and armor the same as the kataphraktoi and voila. Now, I felt guilty afterwards, like maybe I was cheating, so I made their cost and upkeep 1.5 times the normal Hetairoi, and only with 20 men instead of 25. But they are my favorite unit now, though suprisingly fragile if used incorrectly. But if I'm careful, they can break units without losing a single man (which helps because I can only build them in Seleukia and Antioch and Baktra :/).
Wow man:dizzy2:

Maion

[The Persian Cataphract]

The problem is that they should not really be comparable. We have discussed the differences between the two units internally and agree that while the Hetairoi are depicted on the heavier rendition, the two units have different doctrines. Companion Cavalry are swift but still powerful enough to charge; cataphracts charge knee-to-knee in serried and columned formations, and in order to maintain discipline must ride a great distance first in ambling speed. RTW limitations have however not allowed us to emphasize the differences, strengths and weaknesses in an adequate manner.

What we certainly intend for is that unit types will have their uses, and our intention is that both Hetairoi and Kataphraktoi should be used. Neither is intended to be inherently better; however from a RTW standing, for the pure factor of superior stats, without taking into account slightly lower values of morale, the cataphracts have the upper hand. This does of course not say a lot; besides cataphracts and extra-heavy steppen and Eastern cavalry, the Hetairoi rank right up there as mounted slaughterhouses. The Seleucids have the added luxury, but for Egypt and Macedonia... And Epirus, if one counts the Molossian Guards, can not traditionally acquire cataphracts.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

But which unit have larger AoR??

[Ludens]

But which unit have larger AoR??

According to the recruitment viewer Hellenic cataphracts can be recruited in 12 provinces (Lydia, Phyrgia, Syria, Syria Koile, Assyria, Mesopotamia, Charax Spaspinou, Media, Elymais, Arya, Bactria and Dayuan), while Companions are available in only four (Syria, Mesopotamia, Macedonia and Delta Neilou), although the latter two provinces don't give access to cataphracts. Technically, you can recruit both in Babylonia as well, and Hetairoi can also be recruited in Thessaly, but these provinces don't allow the government type required to build a MIC of sufficiently high level.

[gamegeek2]

I honestly think that 30 is too close of a charge distance for heavy horsemen; for heavily armoured cavalry (two handed lance) I raised it to 60 (exceptions for "fast moving" units, which can get speed going more quickly. I put the single-spear heavy horsemen charge distance at 45, and the light spear horsemen stuck with 30 (Numidian cav, etc)

[Lysimachos]

Technically, you can recruit both in Babylonia as well, and Hetairoi can also be recruited in Thessaly, but these provinces don't allow the government type required to build a MIC of sufficiently high level.

I'm quite sure Babylonia is Homeland, although it starts the game with a Type 4 gov.

[Ludens]

I'm quite sure Babylonia is Homeland, although it starts the game with a Type 4 gov.

I didn't check it in game, only on the recruitment viewer, so you may be right. The RV is based on EB1.1 anyway.

[artaxerxes]

I'm quite sure Babylonia is Homeland, although it starts the game with a Type 4 gov.

it is DEFINENTLY. I always change it to type 1, make Babylon my capitol & spend all my spare money building stuff there, keeping taxes at low to make it grow faster. In my current game, I'm extremely fortunate, as Babylon actually IS the city that gives the most money as capitol - the best suited one geographically, that is. But even when I would get better money from having fx Susa or even Persepolis as capitol, I still have Babylon, come hell or high water. I always wanted to be Nebuchadnezzar II, this is the best I can do:laugh4: who cares which faraway provinces rebel anyway, my realm always stays bigger than the Babylonian empires were anyway:smash: