Do you think any members of the Bush administration will face criminal charges?

[HoreTore]

A nice and simple poll...

Do you think that any important members of the Bush administration will face criminal charges in the next few years for their actions during his presidency? Note; this isn't about whether they're guilty, just whether they will be brought to a trial...

Either abroad or at home, for war crimes, corruption, etc.

- no
- yes, but only minor and irrelevant charges
- yes, on corruption charges
- yes, for other economic crimes
- yes, for war-crimes, but not in US courts
- yes, for war-crimes, in US courts

[drone]

Seeing as how they are still being sworn to secrecy (http://www.newsweek.com/id/182240), it will be a long time before the real story of the shenanigans comes out. If Congress/Obama do initiate an investigation, my guess is that some may get contempt charges. I seriously doubt that any of them will face a US court though, too many people on both sides would be embarrassed.

A foreign court may charge some of them, but they will never come to trial.

[Strike For The South]

Warcrimes in an international court? Whoever voted that is dreaming.

[Ronin]

they absolutely should be tried for war crimes...ain´t gonna happen though.

[Strike For The South]

Neither Johnson nor Westmoreland stood for 'Nam, which had 14 times the US casualties and many more times the civilian casualties. Not to mention an American public out for blood and one that found an identity in the war. Today we seem to want to keep the war from sight and sound.

Everyone walks.

[Tribesman]

Everyone walks.
tell that to Kissinger , he had to run from Paris and couldn't set foot in Brazil .
So will any of the Bush idiots face trial ? It depends on how much they like to travel .

[Fisherking]

Politician in office don’t like to send Politicians out of office to Jail…any way you choose spell it.

Some day they will be out of office and they don’t want to spend the money they acquired on other lawyers…

[Lemur]

As I said in another thread, I think people such as John Yoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo) and David Addington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Addington) should avoid European vacations for the foreseeable future.

[Strike For The South]

tell that to Kissinger , he had to run from Paris and couldn't set foot in Brazil .
So will any of the Bush idiots face trial ? It depends on how much they like to travel .

Paris? A dog and pony show, so that the French could save face after some nationals had been killed. No teeth at all.

As for Brazil. Who really cares. I'm sure Syria, Jordan and other Arab nations will pull the same stunt. More to show that they don't like Bush messing around in there backyard.

[CountArach]

No, of course not. There's no justice in this world.

[Strike For The South]

No, of course not. There's no justice in this world.

:drama2:

[CountArach]

:drama2:
He and his administration have repeatedly broken International Law. They should be hanged.

[Strike For The South]

:drama2:

I think you get the point.

[Tribesman]

They should be hanged.
Civilised countries don't do executions .

[Strike For The South]

Civilised countries don't do executions .

As shown in this thread, that only applies when its someone you like. Of Course Im not talking about you Tribesman. You're the ironclad Irishman.

[KukriKhan]

Do you think that any important members of the Bush administration will face criminal charges... ?

If important = Cabinet members, Department heads, and "senior advisors": no, I think they won't, either by US or other jurisdictions. They very carefully provided legally defensible "cover" for all their decisions.

The next level down, i.e. Assistants to Deputy Secretaries - the guys who actually wrote/gave the orders and directives to carry out policy decisions (as they understood them) might find liability exposure. But honestly, I don't think you'll see many, if any, such trials until around early 2012, when they can be used as a springboard to "4 more years", whether there's an actual conviction or not.

Corruption trials for middle-managers, however, will probably happen, as they do any time, under any administration.

What the ICC does, still remains a mystery to me.

[CountArach]

Civilised countries don't do executions .
Metaphorically speaking of course.

[Lemur]

Interesting. So nobody on the board thinks any members of the Bush admin will face any prosecution from the U.S.A., and I'm the only person who thinks they should be careful about where they travel. Let's hope the Yoos and Addingtons and Cheneys are as blase about justice as this crew.

[lenin96]

Unfortunatly I don't think they will be charged for all of the crap they have done.

[KukriKhan]

...and I'm the only person who thinks they should be careful about where they travel

I didn't say that. I wrote:


What the ICC does, still remains a mystery to me.

I won't be surprised to read a headline: "Bush Official Indicted By ICC".

[Devastatin Dave]

BDS

[Lemur]

BDS
Hmmm ... (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/BDS)

BDS Business Development Services
BDS Bush Derangement Syndrome (derogatory political epithet coined by Charles Krauthammer)
BDS Bachelor of Dental Surgery
BDS Broadcast Data Systems (music)
BDS British Driving Society
BDS Brew Distribution System (Qualcomm)
BDS Boondock Saints (movie)
BDS Biohazard Detection System
BDS Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions
BDS Business Development Specialist
BDS Bid Data Sheet
BDS Bulldog Skates (skateboards)
BDS Biological Detection System
BDS Bureau of Diplomatic Security (US State Department)
BDS Brock-Dechert-Scheinkman (statistic)
BDS Bioreactor Demonstration System (NASA)
BDS Bioadhesive Delivery System (Columbia Laboratories, Inc.)
BDS Business Document Service (SAP)
BDS Battlefield Distributed Simulation
BDS Blank Detail Specification
BDS Battle Dressing Station
BDS Business Data Services
BDS Bryant-Denny Stadium (University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa)
BDS Biotechnology Demonstration System
BDS Brindisi P Casale (airport code, Italy)
BDS Blackfan-Diamond Syndrome
BDS State Agency for Standardization and Metrology (Bulgaria)
BDS Bicycle Dealer Showcase
BDS Business Development Seminar
BDS Building Distribution System
BDS British Dental Society
BDS Battlefield Data System
BDS British Defense Staff
BDS Browse data Distribution Subsystem
BDS Big Dumb Show
BDS Blockwise Direct Sum
BDS Big Data Service (SGI)
BDS Binary Data Set
BDS Buddha Dharma Sangha
BDS Business Dial-Up Service
BDS Budget Databases System
BDS Base Data System
BDS Backus Data Systems, Incorporated
BDS Battle Deception System
BDS Business Design Specification
BDS Comm-B Data Registers (used in Mode-S interrogators)
BDS Business Design Solutions
BDS Bill Delevery System
BDS Border Damping System (used in a picture tube)
BDS Burglar Detection System
BDS Banyon Data Systems, Inc (Burnsville, MN)
BDS Broadband Distribution System
BDS Bulk Data Subnet
BDS Background Driver Search
BDS Bomb Director System/Set
BDS Briefing and Display Subsystem
BDS Breakdown Spares
BDS Boards
BDS Bi-Directional System
BDS Bi-Directional Sipe
BDS Borland Developer Studio
BDS Bidirectional Scan
BDS Boot Device Select

I won't be surprised to read a headline: "Bush Official Indicted By ICC".
Sorry, KK, I din't fully grasp the implications of what you wrote. My bad.

[KukriKhan]

Hmmm ... (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/BDS)

BDS Business Development Services
BDS Bush Derangement Syndrome (derogatory political epithet coined by Charles Krauthammer)
BDS Bachelor of Dental Surgery
BDS Broadcast Data Systems (music)
BDS British Driving Society
BDS Brew Distribution System (Qualcomm)
BDS Boondock Saints (movie)
BDS Biohazard Detection System
BDS Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions
BDS Business Development Specialist
BDS Bid Data Sheet
BDS Bulldog Skates (skateboards)
BDS Biological Detection System
BDS Bureau of Diplomatic Security (US State Department)
BDS Brock-Dechert-Scheinkman (statistic)
BDS Bioreactor Demonstration System (NASA)
BDS Bioadhesive Delivery System (Columbia Laboratories, Inc.)
BDS Business Document Service (SAP)
BDS Battlefield Distributed Simulation
BDS Blank Detail Specification
BDS Battle Dressing Station
BDS Business Data Services
BDS Bryant-Denny Stadium (University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa)
BDS Biotechnology Demonstration System
BDS Brindisi P Casale (airport code, Italy)
BDS Blackfan-Diamond Syndrome
BDS State Agency for Standardization and Metrology (Bulgaria)
BDS Bicycle Dealer Showcase
BDS Business Development Seminar
BDS Building Distribution System
BDS Bush Derangement Syndrome
BDS British Dental Society
BDS Battlefield Data System
BDS British Defense Staff
BDS Browse data Distribution Subsystem
BDS Big Dumb Show
BDS Blockwise Direct Sum
BDS Big Data Service (SGI)
BDS Binary Data Set
BDS Buddha Dharma Sangha
BDS Business Dial-Up Service
BDS Budget Databases System
BDS Base Data System
BDS Backus Data Systems, Incorporated
BDS Battle Deception System
BDS Business Design Specification
BDS Comm-B Data Registers (used in Mode-S interrogators)
BDS Business Design Solutions
BDS Bill Delevery System
BDS Border Damping System (used in a picture tube)
BDS Burglar Detection System
BDS Banyon Data Systems, Inc (Burnsville, MN)
BDS Broadband Distribution System
BDS Bulk Data Subnet
BDS Background Driver Search
BDS Bomb Director System/Set
BDS Briefing and Display Subsystem
BDS Breakdown Spares
BDS Boards
BDS Bi-Directional System
BDS Bi-Directional Sipe
BDS Borland Developer Studio
BDS Bidirectional Scan
BDS Boot Device Select

Ya gotta listen ta about 20 minutes of talk radio to hear the phrase.

[Strike For The South]

Alright I'm willing to try Bush for war crimes IF we try every American for them to. Why should one citizen go down when his country authorized him to use force? What about all the congressman and Senators who authorized the Iraq resolution?

I love painting Bush as some evil despot. So evil he and his need to be tried for war crimes. Y'all need some perspective and a chill pill. I realize being part of the group that speaks for our civil liberties and the oppressed brown people is the only reason why some of you get up in the morning. I also realize that simplifying this whole thing to Bush and his staff while at the same time trying to pass it off as truth can be very hard.

I commend you on your hard work and effort. I mean you have convinced a large segment of the population you are right. Bush IS the reason for suffering in the world and should be hanged as one member so eloquently put it (metaphorically speaking).

But thats not the real problem here. The real problem is that in 10 years no one will care. For or against people will just move on and 4,236 American servicemen will have lost there lives so one oligarchy can take another place and we can redo the whole damn thing over again.

See, that it. It's not Bushes fault its Americas. We don't have the luxury of being apathetic or not willing to make tough calls. We don't have the luxury of simply blaming the big ol bully on the block.
If we want war thats fine but how this thing has been conducted is utterly appalling. You capture a man, you bandage him, you feed him, and you give him a fair trial. This sort of thing we are doing now, holding men without cause, leaving them to rot, It's despicable. What Have we become?

America has also lost its sense of direction. Things get a little hard and we want to quit. We suddenly lost when things got a little tough. What in the hell are we supposed to tell these peoples families? "Oh sorry your father/husband/brother/uncle died for nothing but see uhhhh gas prices are down now and the rest of America sort of wants to see more headlines about K-Fed and Britney so we decided were going to end it.....by the way we cut your benefits" It's not like the guys who want us to stay and pump in more troops are any better. These men have no souls. What happened to the men of yesteryear? Men who took up gritty tasks with a tear in there eye but a steely heart.

We take our luxuries today for granted. We don't realize our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought for this stiff tooth and nail. They took all comers and made this backwater province filled with all the unwanted people of the world into the greatest nation it has ever seen.

America used to stand for something, We are the misfit toys. We are all different colors and cultures and at the end of the day the only thing we have in common is that our "home" country undervalued us and we came here believing in what America stood for. I am jealous of immigrants I really am. I can trace my Granpappies back to the French and Injun war. My blood is pretty much old stock WASP. Just once I want to know what it feels like to have landed in your new home and then to succeed. I see it on the faces of mexicans all the time. The come into the store in the America shirts proudly strutting there reptile skin boots and whistling and I can't help but smile because as long as that Mexican or African or Russian still believes then I realize I still can to.

In short my point is this. The Iraq war has really encapsulated Americas culture today and right now we stand on the precipice. Continue down our destructive path, blaming others flouting our republican responsibilities and losing our principles. Or we can look to our past and learn from our forefathers. We can remember what it truly is to be an American.

Of course none of this makes any sense but I'm glad I got it off my chest. /rant

[KukriKhan]

The come into the store in the America shirts proudly strutting there reptile skin boots and whistling and I can't help but smile because as long as that Mexican or African or Russian still believes then I realize I still can to.

Reading that made me smile, too, Pard'.

[rasoforos]

They should be charged for war crimes but they will not be.

The argument that if Bush is tried then all Americans should be tried is laughable.

There was no referendum (so they people did not really authorise him, they just elected him to make the right decisions and a joly good job he did didn't he?)

An army officer might be forced to fight a war he doesn't want to or believe in. Not the president of the USA. He chose to do it, he chose to fabricate evidence too as history showed us. He was not given orders to do it.

I find it very ironic that there is an attempt to put the blame on the people when they were the victims of such a blatant manipulation and misinformation attempt by their own administration. That constitutes a crime on its own. :daisy: human rights abuses for a bit. Shouldn't the administration pay for spending trillions of taxpayers' money chasing for WMD's that only existed inside their own sick imagination?

The USA emerged after all this much weaker both in a geopolitical and an economic sense. As we speak, new Superpowers emerge and gain supporters and boast economies that will surpass the US in a couple of decades. All the states need is a couple more 'great leaders' like Bush to go unpunished and we wont have to discuss about such things anymore...

[Tribesman]

and I'm the only person who thinks they should be careful about where they travel

You missed .....
So will any of the Bush idiots face trial ? It depends on how much they like to travel .

[Kralizec]

I don't think any cabinet members will face charges in the USA, though I imagine some of the lower appointees might- but not for anything other than falsifying/witholding documents or similar stuff, certainly not "war crimes". Some of them might have to avoid a couple of countries in the future to avoid trials there (look at Pinochet, for example)

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Don't succeeding presidents always pardon members of the previous administration as a good faith measure?

[Major Robert Dump]

Politicians have a knack for looking out for each other, so I voted no. Bush didn't pursue Clinton, Obama won't pursue Bush.

[Xiahou]

Politicians have a knack for looking out for each other, so I voted no. Bush didn't pursue Clinton, Obama won't pursue Bush.
Agreed. No administration wants to be the one to set that precedent.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The only court any will face is the court of public opinion. I agree with Major Dump *welcome back by the way* and Xiahou. No administration wants to weaken the implied concept of executive privilege (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11527747) , not to mention the protracted legal battle that would probably take a decade to fight.

[rory_20_uk]

Politicians have a knack for looking out for each other, so I voted no. Bush didn't pursue Clinton, Obama won't pursue Bush.

There's no gain for taking the old guard to the courts when you can just heap all blame on them with impunity anyway. And every politician is aware that they want to retire without the threat of being caught out for all the waste, kickbacks and bribes they've taken over the years.

~:smoking:

[LittleGrizzly]

Not nessecarily speaking of charges against the Bush admin here... but i think it would be great if the next administration (hypothetically speaking) were willing to charge the previous will any illegal crap they got up to, this would force the administration that carried such an action out to be whiter than white and probably every administration afterwards would have the worry that they could be charged....

The current policy seems something like asking the new drug dealer if he wants the old one he replaced to goto jail...

[CountArach]

It's been a while since I posted any polling information on this site (Seriously, it must have at least been a fortnight). So when this hit my Email inbox today I thought it might be interesting to some.

62% of americans want at least some inquiry into Bush's wrongdoings. (http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/gtbxaznk8uow19pb_uyrjq.gif)

Surprisingly this isn't built along partisan lines (though there is a clear divide there, but it is not some of the 90% of Republicans oppose/90% of Democrats support stuff that we are used to reading).