organ cannons...

[wukie2001]

are this any good at all? i mean they are pretty much like a gatlin gun, but are they effective and/or which would u concider good to use/build? atm, i have a saved gamed and im just running thruough the ages to c the builds that come out with with gunpowder and such since i dont know the effectives ness of this units/build. any opinion/suggestions...

im using the danes atm and i ahve a province with iron on it so i got attack and armor upgrades in one province wihch is were most of my units are comming out from, are they worth building with the armor/attack upgrades?

thx...

ps...does any1 got a manual to MTW that they can pass on to me :2thumbsup: or a link to all the units, just want to know the upgrades/units that danes(any factions) can get...

thx again...

[Jxrc]

They can be nice in a bridge battle when you defend but apart from that the range is too short to be of any use (could also be nice defending in a siege but I have never tried that).

Building your own organ guns requires a lot of tech-up (max artillery facility + max musket facility IIRC) so it's not worth the trouble IMHO. If you want to use one for the fun of it, the easiest way to get one is to build an Inn. After a while you can be sure that one will be available as a mercenary unit. Maintenance cost is not huge due to the small number of men needed.

[HopAlongBunny]

Amazing during almost any defensive battle.

Bridges are very good; the enemy have no choice but to advance into the gun; I use a U shaped defence on bridges and place the gun at one of the "hinges".

If the game has progressed that far, I like to have one in every army; ambush from woods backed by swords or militia_very nasty surprise for the AI; as a centre or flank anchor to my defensive line (w/wo a hill)

I wouldn't worry about the iron upgrade; if you are able to build them they valor up very fast and iron is better for melee/cavalry.

I get best results with "auto-fire" off; for some reason (at least for me) they are always deployed backwards so I have to target an out of range unit at the beginning of the battle; makes them swing around so they are ready at crunch time.

Enjoy :)

ps. they take time to fire; wait too long and they will be in melee and unable to get a shot off:oops:

[drone]

are this any good at all? i mean they are pretty much like a gatlin gun, but are they effective and/or which would u concider good to use/build? atm, i have a saved gamed and im just running thruough the ages to c the builds that come out with with gunpowder and such since i dont know the effectives ness of this units/build. any opinion/suggestions...
Stats on the Organ Gun (https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/MTW_Organ_Gun).
They can be pretty nasty when used correctly, but they are somewhat limited, and usually by the time I can build them I don't really need them (I'm always on the attack).


im using the danes atm and i ahve a province with iron on it so i got attack and armor upgrades in one province wihch is were most of my units are comming out from, are they worth building with the armor/attack upgrades?

thx...

ps...does any1 got a manual to MTW that they can pass on to me :2thumbsup: or a link to all the units, just want to know the upgrades/units that danes(any factions) can get...

thx again...
When playing the Danes, I usually have Sweden teched up and pumping out my infantry and cavalry units with both weapon and armor upgrades. However, weapon upgrades have no effect on missile attacks, only melee, so it's kind of a waste to build the Bowyer and Gunsmith lines there. The upgrades are very useful, and don't forget to build religious buildings as well to get the morale bonuses. The extra armor will be a hindrance in the desert, but for most of the map you want the best you can get.

For units, you can read Frogbeastegg's MTW Unit Guide (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31444) (you can also download it in .doc format), or you can browse the units (https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/MTW_VI_Units) section in the wiki. The Danes get Vikings and Longboats, of course, but for the most part they are limited to the generic Catholic roster. The Scandinivian provinces themselves are necessary for the other special Viking-style units (anybody can build Huscarles, they just have to take Norway, Sweden, or Denmark to do it).

[Geezer57]

What HopAlong said is spot-on. Organ Guns are short-ranged, so next to useless on offense. Best used for Castle/Bridge defenses, but can be very valuable in field defenses also. Turn off the Skirmish mode, or they may never get a shot off. Since they only have six ammo, turning off auto-fire will help keep from wasting those few precious shots.

I like to place them just behind my front-line missile troops (these usually are set to hold position, so they don't skirmish away), in a small gap between units. Best right on the edge of some trees, if map terrain permits, and in-line between the enemy and your General. The AI seems to like charging straight for your commander, so this helps insure your Organ Gun has plenty of targets.

Small, high-value targets are best - think enemy General, Royal Bodyguards, etc. Doesn't matter how heavily-armored they are, the Organ Gun will blow right through that stuff. In my latest XL/Tyberius Mod/Expert/GA campaign as the Volga Bulgars, I've had numerous battles (starting with the Golden Horde) where Organ Guns were a key factor.

After emerging at the end of the year 1230 in Khazar (directly adjacent just South of my home province of Volga-Bulgaria) with approx. 9k men, in 1231 the GH reserves most of their men for the reduction of the Rebels in Khazar. But they do send 1700 men in a probe of V-B and a similar number into Lesser Khazar. Of my approx. 1000 defenders in V-B is one lone mercenary Organ Gun unit. The Horde units approach, come under fire of the Volga-Bulgar Infantry (like a FMAA w/ long-range bows) at the woods edge, close to within almost melee range when the lead GH Heavy Cavalry unit is hit by the Organ Gun, gets cut in half, and stops. The rest of the Horde open arrow fire, but the heavy melee units (under heavy arrow fire) slide off to one side, seeking an easier approach. A incautious Steppe Cavalry unit starts to attack frontally, just in time for the now-reloaded Organ Gun to fire again. They only suffer 35% casualties, but also halt their charge and move off to one side. Then the Khan shows up, and all missile troops focus on this new critical target. He approaches, starts his charge, almost makes it to the V-B Infantry line when the Organ Gun cuts loose at point-blank range. The 31 GH Heavy Cavalry are cut to 13 men, which (unfortunately) still includes the Khan. The V-B Infantry unit takes the shock of the now-depleted charge, is rescued by a counter-charge of Kursybays (medium spears), while a unit of Kazanchis (think Swiss Halbardiers) rushes around to take the rear of the Khan. He's reduced to one man, breaks (taking many of the lower-morale units with him), and is ultimately captured by a light cavalry unit before he makes the map edge. The rest of the battle is pretty much a mop-up. My foot melee units return to the trees, while cavalry surges periodically to chase off missile skirmishers.

The next year they return in force (almost 7k), but their Khan is now a Good Runner, and my men have been reinforced. I have a 2nd Organ Gun, and my force now numbers over 1600. This battle is a repeat of the first, only on a larger scale against a weaker-willed force. The Organ Guns get to fire eleven of their twelve salvos, focusing on GH Heavy Cav, and are finally withdrawn when one runs out of ammo and no one will approach within range of the other. Looking over the battle logs afterwards, the two guns accounted for over 400 kills between them - their morale effect was obviously substantial, but also innumerable.

Their value when used appropriately was shown again, when the Poles invaded at another point of my domain. In this battle my deployment was very similar (edge of tree line), with the Organ Gun sandwiched between two V-B Infantry just behind the front line. Arrow fire drives off a couple of units of javelin men and other light troops, their commanding Royal Knight unit comes in range, the Organ Gun cuts loose and kills him (13 out of 20), most of the rest rout and the chase begins. Just another day at the office...:beam:

So, Organ Guns, are they any good? I say: don't leave home without one!

[HopAlongBunny]

Turn off the Skirmish mode, or they may never get a shot off. Since they only have six ammo, turning off auto-fire will help keep from wasting those few precious shots.
So, Organ Guns, are they any good? I say: don't leave home without one!

Ack! I'd forgotten about the "skirmish mode" :oops:
They run at about the same range they become effective so this is a must :clown:

Excellent overview of their proper use; Thank you Geezer57 :yes:

[Fagar]

As the previous posts show organ guns can be devastating but so so can a lot of missile units.
The key is in the correct employment and use of them, do not let them get isolated and do not rely on them to win a battle for you.
Geezers post was a perfect example of a good use for organ guns.
You want to hide the gun partially or at the very least off to the flanks so that you have more targets to fire apon and your organ gun does not become the centre of attention for the enemy.
Keep a fast moving sword type troop nearby for assistance just in case.

[Roark]

Organ guns are one of my favourite units in the game. As has already been stated, though, you can only use them on defence.

Why they rock:

- They completely disregard valour and armour.
- In pairs, on a hill, with a good general, they will shred and rout any unit in the game with one volley (except maybe for fast cavalry).
- They create fear.

[Knight of the Rose]

- In pairs, on a hill, with a good general, they will shred and rout any unit in the game with one volley

I did this once - two organ guns fired at chiv.sergants. They went from 100 men to 27 and routed. Amazing. I almost always take them when offered as mercs, but never build them myself.

/KotR

[Geezer57]

I almost always take them when offered as mercs, but never build them myself.

The build requirements for Organ Guns are extremely high, so the only practical way to obtain them in the first several decades of the usual High/Late campaign (not available in Early) is to hire them as mercenaries. Fortunately, their support cost is not high, so even when doubled (Merc penalty) they're affordable.

[The Unknown Guy]

I've found them very useful in bridge battles

[Roark]

OK, see I don't understand that at all...

Any bridge battle I've ever fought usually involves a number of enemy missile units sitting on the opposite bank.

Doesn't the Organ Gun crew simply get shot up?? They certainly can't sit out of range of standard enemy missiles...

[HopAlongBunny]

OK, see I don't understand that at all...

Any bridge battle I've ever fought usually involves a number of enemy missile units sitting on the opposite bank.

Doesn't the Organ Gun crew simply get shot up?? They certainly can't sit out of range of standard enemy missiles...

I'm not sure how others do it but this is my usual bridge set-up:
xxx o
|.... x
|.... x
|.... x
xxx o
x=spears
o=organ gun
|=bridge

The spears are backed by melee troops; missiles would be deployed to have a clear shot at units on the bridge. The AI advances into the opening after being pelted by missile fire; organ gun(s) open fire and melee (or knights) charge.

Usually, this set-up places everyone except (maybe) your flank spears out of missile range.

Edit: couldn't get the formatting here to leave empty spaces between the | and the x; the "." is empty space:p

[Turbosatan]

I'm not sure how others do it but this is my usual bridge set-up:
xxx o
|.... x
|.... x
|.... x
xxx o
x=spears
o=organ gun
|=bridge

The spears are backed by melee troops; missiles would be deployed to have a clear shot at units on the bridge. The AI advances into the opening after being pelted by missile fire; organ gun(s) open fire and melee (or knights) charge.

Usually, this set-up places everyone except (maybe) your flank spears out of missile range.

Edit: couldn't get the formatting here to leave empty spaces between the | and the x; the "." is empty space:p

That's how I do it, too. I used to exclusively defend against bridge battles camped on my end of the bridge, but as I've played the game (& particularly if I've been surprised by an invasion & lack the specialist bridge-defending army I'd usually take) I've come to sit back in a half-hex a ways from my end of the bridge, utilising the missile shower as a precursor to a quick "surround & mob from all directions", rather than what I used to do, which was hunker down behind the spears & shoot everyone to death with arrows.

I try to leave the counter as late as possible to surround the maximum number of enemies, which means if I have one with me the organ cannon blast is either the thing that starts off the chain-rout, or a massive blow to morale just as my encirclement, er, encircles, or is actually completely useless as I've mistimed it & the enemy are all over my position & pushing me back.

Thus the employment of an organ gun like this -- in other words, sufficiently out of range of enemy missile fire -- has led to my tactics for defending bridge battles becoming somewhat more risky & daring, actually enhancing my enjoyment of the game.