Personal pages, social groups and the like

[TosaInu]

We are allowed to talk about anything on our profiles. I talked about torrents and illegally downloading various pirated software and bovi visited my profile at about the same time, our conversations is practically harmless. Not only this, but TosaInu and Ludens visited Methuselah's profile at the same time as we were discussing the various illegal ways I could transfer my games to him. Finally, moderators will never visit your profile unless you entice them yourself by PM-ing or Visitor Messaging them, which is what Meth and I did to attract those mods. It is as if it is against the moderator's unwritten rules to visit other profiles.

Hello,

I copied above from a public conversation. To make it clear: you are not allowed to talk about piracy, nor porn like in some other conversations nor hurl (rude and/or vulgar) insults at each other.

It's not that it's allowed or even condoned. I suggest every member cleans his own conversation pages and social group pages from all such material. It has to be done by Thursday this week.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

While were on the topic of social groups, might I suggest it be an idea to regulate them all a little more strictly? Possibly even get rid of them. Some have become part of a little group of "spam havens" filled with groups discussing trivial or ridiculous material which would automatically be closed/removed from the off-topic forums.

~:)

[caravel]

Before vBulletin was last updated, we didn't even have these groups/features. IMHO they are not needed and should be totally disabled. We hadn't needed these before and I very much doubt that we need them now either. As a TW forum, I don't see the addition of this pseudo social networking layer as beneficial in any way. Those that want to form such groups/cliques can do so off site using the vast array of tools/sites available.

Post content is best presented in the main forums where it is supposed to be. This gives the largest possible audience where all can benefit and contribute. Omanes is correct in that the social groups and profile visitor pages mainly take the form of spam/chat. The "friends" system is also a flawed one as it encourages cliques and groups to form. and I feel that this is not what the .org is all about.

:bow:

[Lemur]

Given how some of our members have helpfully demonstrated the abuse potential of both social groups and personal page comments, I agree that both should be disabled.

[Strike For The South]

Disable. The ORG don't need that bad pub.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Agreed. I just don't see the need.

[seireikhaan]

I actually rather like the profile pages. However, the social groups are pretty much pointless.

[Lemur]

I actually rather like the profile pages.
Nobody's saying we should disable profile pages, but abuse of the comments section of profile pages has been rampant with some Orgahs. Disabling the comments would be helpful and wise.

[Gregoshi]

I'm for shutting them down. I always felt uneasy about the "underground" culture it promoted and the nightmare it must cause to even try to moderate it. Besides, Warman's profile background nearly destroyed my sight. :laugh4:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The social groups are very useful. Remember the days of the old Imperialist Club, Conservative Club, and so on in the Backroom? It creates a place for those to go without taking up space in the debating area. Granted, some people do abuse it, but far more people abuse the profiles. If we must disable anything, it should be comments on profiles, not the groups.

[KukriKhan]

It's not that it's allowed or even condoned. I suggest every member cleans his own conversation pages and social group pages from all such material. It has to be done by Thursday this week.

The law - and the deadline, has been stated.

Reasonably.

"I suggest every member..." is politely reminding us all to be responsible, accountable, upstanding org citizens. Let us show that we have no need of coversations about piracy, pr0n, or the personal denigration of other members.


We are allowed to talk about anything on our profiles. I talked about torrents and illegally...

...Finally, moderators will never visit your profile unless you entice them yourself by PM-ing or Visitor Messaging them, which is what Meth and I did to attract those mods. It is as if it is against the moderator's unwritten rules to visit other profiles.

The author misunderstands benign tolerance of minor infractions, with the Org's thrust: we don't allow such coversations, because they are illegal, and WE DON'T NEED THEM. And don't want them.

In this place, this Org, we rely on personal honor and individual integrity; our opponents on the virtual battlefield CAN BE TRUSTED to not use cheats, go-rounds, or red-zone movements.

A victory here is more a matter of well thought-out strategy, than 'net-informed quick tactical move. And we all endure both victories, and defeats. And learn from both.

Hence, the org "way". Our bushido. Our enthusisatic welcoming of newcomers, our encouragement of member 'product': be it game-mod, playing tip, hardware trick, or political outlook. Every member's contribution is valued.

Which puts the onus of value on the contributor, I think. In this free place of honor, we must insure that our contributions are worthwhile. Valuable to our broader audience. Helpful to someone.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

Before vBulletin was last updated, we didn't even have these groups/features. IMHO they are not needed and should be totally disabled.


Given how some of our members have helpfully demonstrated the abuse potential of both social groups and personal page comments, I agree that both should be disabled.

Leave my group alone will you? Deal with the spammers as you wish and don't involve decent orgahs! ~:pissed:
.

[pevergreen]

They are not needed. Spamming of all forms should be discouraged.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Before vBulletin was last updated, we didn't even have these groups/features. IMHO they are not needed and should be totally disabled. We hadn't needed these before and I very much doubt that we need them now either. As a TW forum, I don't see the addition of this pseudo social networking layer as beneficial in any way. Those that want to form such groups/cliques can do so off site using the vast array of tools/sites available.

Post content is best presented in the main forums where it is supposed to be. This gives the largest possible audience where all can benefit and contribute. Omanes is correct in that the social groups and profile visitor pages mainly take the form of spam/chat. The "friends" system is also a flawed one as it encourages cliques and groups to form. and I feel that this is not what the .org is all about.That, for the social groups, IMO, would actually be the most ideal solution - I was trying to compromise a little, but, since it seems that widespread public support is against rather than for, I don't really need to do that any more.

As you have said, the friends list is also rather pointless, but it functions as an extension of v3.5/3.6's buddy list (highlighting those you want to see when on line and giving you a quick list to PM from) and is henceforth fairly harmless. Maybe the visibility of whose friends with who could be dropped - we couldn't see who was on each others buddy list under the old system. I'm not sure about the possibility of this though - I haven't read the vBulletin manual since v3.7 was released.

I'm less certain about profile pages. This probably sounds ridiculous, but it feels more socially acceptable to chat there fairly pointlessly if only just to say hi, ask what the owner's up to, what they are doing at the weekend e.c.t.

To resolve the idea that its a world hidden from the watchful eyes of the moderators, I'd probably say that self-moderation should be in place there - the member looks after the page in accordance with the rules. If somebody breaks the rules, the offender is punished and the page owner is warned that it is their responsibility to keep their page clean (in PM rather than WP format). For the sake of fairness, the page owner probably should only be "told off" if they've been active since the message was first sited. As well as all this, it could be a good idea to allow AMs to moderate pages to increase the number of staff able to watch them (as far as I know, I, at least, cannot do that).

On another note, themes on some profile pages are definitely irritating, but that can be easily fixed by flicking a switch (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/profile.php?do=switchusercss&hash=1233780138-d0fc0e2f1dacd0018229651526be9aba5f021abf&u=10101) (button is found slightly to the left of the centre on profile pages with customisations enabled - below the user rank, Member for example. You can click that again to turn it back on).

~:)

[Noir]

Both are not needed in my view - i wouldnt shed a single tear if they were botched.

Groups and cliques that form around activities that are relevant to the org but not taking place at the org can stay where they happen. Grouping trends although perfectly normal can be potentially harmful under certain conditions.

Noir

[Tribesman]

Get rid of them, the forum was fine without them

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Keep them. If members abuse it, give them warning points. I don't see why Mods can't check out the social groups and that. It's not un-common for Moderator's today to have to Moderate 2-4 different sub-forums, so it should not be a big deal spending a few minutes checking out the Social Groups. Profiles on the other hand, are different.


Greg, I know, I killed a lot of eyes with my profile :clown: :laugh4:

[Tribesman]

Block them entirely , if only to stop that silly child warman from being a prick so often

[Rhyfelwyr]

I like the profile pages at least, it makes it a lot easier when you have to contact a lot of people regularly for IH's or whatever.

Although I suppose a lot of the social groups are a bit spamtastic.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Yes. I argee also. It makes it easier with the IH's, plus, do you really want to waste PM box space by PMing someone a simple thing as "Check the IH"? Plus, if the person's PM box is full and he/she forgets..... Then what you going to do?

Social Groups, stick 1-2 people in charge of looking over them. For profiles, If someone reports something, have a Moderator check it out. That's what they there for!


:bow:

[Thermal]

The majority of forumers can use the public profile pages responsibly along with social groups, I see little reason why they should be closed down because a few incompetant Orgahs feel the need to talk about porn, illegal downloading and spam.

Many of the members who say down with the profiles and comments are the people which haven't had any comments for years, or at all, they don't account for people who do communicate via public profile.

It is anything but spam, it doesn't add to your post count and it makes messages feel a bit more personalized to that member when sending ti to there profile, all orgahs should get the option as to whether they keep there space for talking or not, as some members see it as a reliable source to spread information without clogging up your PM box.

It is also a great place for people to add compliments to your profile photos and get to know you better, and much quicker than pm's, if people are abusing this privilege then they should persoanlly be warned and face the consequence, however i don't see why good orgahs who are respectful on public profiles should suffer that bit more too.

[Emperor of Graal]

I See nothing wrong with user pages and social groups.
Whats wrong is the Porn and illegal downloads etc
Points and warnings for that methinks...

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Yes, but the question is, what is the the point of them? As Caravel said, what do they nurture that a forum thread could not? If you want to start a "Conservative Club" or "Lefties Group" or something like that you've got the Backroom. Anything else, such as discussing your stamp collections or Britney Spears music albums you've bought or something like that, you've got the Frontroom. History you've got the Monastery, technical stuff's got the Hard & Software forum while the Arena deals with non-TW games. Finally, spam has got the infamous back-stage "Bin" forum for staff to dump where it can rot in peace.

I do see the purpose of profile pages, but not social groups.

~:)

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Good point Omanes, but do we need to make a thread like you suggested for every thing of a legal nature? Why not a Social Group?

[Emperor of Graal]

Good point Warman
The social groups stops the Orgs forum being Filled up.
Doesn't it?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Good point Omanes, but do we need to make a thread like you suggested for every thing of a legal nature? Why not a Social Group?To repeat what has already been said, we did before - it's not as if the .Org died from excessive thread levels. If we go two pages before the update (about three/four weeks) in the Frontroom (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=48&order=desc&page=14) it's not as if anything has changed by their introduction.

~:)

[Emperor of Graal]

That is true..
The Org would be dead if it was suffering..

[drone]

I'm ambivalent about the groups and profiles, I can see the potential uses as well as abuses. I'm no fan of MySpace/Facebook, but the profiles are a nice touch and let you express yourself a little more than a simple sig could. I would assume that social groups are handy for modding teams and multiplayer groups/clans. Both have the advantages over threads, which can quickly get out of hand or shunted off the front pages as time goes on.

I don't know how the forum code works, but I'm assuming that moderators are tied to their specific sub-fora, and only administrators have the ability to edit members' profiles and give warnings accordingly. The staff can't be expected to keep track of every members' visitor messages and groups' spammation (although I assume a DB tool exists that could easily show recent additions).

When in doubt, look at the Guild FAQ page, title: Forum Rules. Next, look at the URL of the member pages, https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php. Look at the URL of the social pages, https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php. Look at the URL for the wiki, https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/. They are all part of the forum, and therefore contributions need to follow the forum rules.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I'm ambivalent about the groups and profiles, I can see the potential uses as well as abuses. I'm no fan of MySpace/Facebook, but the profiles are a nice touch and let you express yourself a little more than a simple sig could. I would assume that social groups are handy for modding teams and multiplayer groups/clans. Both have the advantages over threads, which can quickly get out of hand or shunted off the front pages as time goes on.Hidden mod forums exist to serve mods and Tosa probably would grant one of them regardless of the mod's status. A solution for clans could be an interesting addition - "Hosted Clan Forums" maybe. If there were the demand, I'm sure the administration would be happy to act on it, anyhow, I digress.

I think that reports from social groups and the such like go to all full, and certain elements of the assistant, mod staff. This makes them all moderators, but doesn't mean that they have to go through it all with a fine tooth comb.

~:)

[Thermal]

Social groups are also useful in my opinion as it selects the destined group of people so you can all talk about things you all mutually like, without the criticism of the back-room for example: An Xbox360 fan group will consist of members setting up xbox live games, sharing there thoughts of games and having good conversation, an Xbox360 thread would likely be filled with spam and lots of PS3 supporters booing the thread instead of keeping it positive, basically what i say is social groups can be useful for extracting a desired audience, and saves those who don't like the topic having to comment on it. Some social groups may be a little pointless however, perhaps implementing the need to ask a moderators permission to open a social group (and the groups topic mentioned) could be used to allow useful social groups and disallow profitless ones.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Social groups are also useful in my opinion as it selects the destined group of people so you can all talk about things you all mutually like, without the criticism of the back-room for example: An Xbox360 fan group will consist of members setting up xbox live games, sharing there thoughts of games and having good conversation, an Xbox360 thread would likely be filled with spam and lots of PS3 supporters booing the thread instead of keeping it positive,We don't get that at the .Org. If something like that were to occur, punishments would probably be issued and un-needed posts deleted.
basically what i say is social groups can be useful for extracting a desired audience, and saves those who don't like the topic having to comment on it. Some social groups may be a little pointless however, perhaps implementing the need to ask a moderators permission to open a social group (and the groups topic mentioned) could be used to allow useful social groups and disallow profitless ones.If there is enough people wanting to maintain them, then I suppose that could be an ideal compromise. Still, I don't see what's wrong with the thread system - more people looking, more mods looking and overall more successful discussion.

~:)

[drone]

I think that reports from social groups and the such like go to all full, and certain elements of the assistant, mod staff. This makes them all moderators, but doesn't mean that they have to go through it all with a fine tooth comb.

Do full staff have powers outside their domain though? And while they may get reports, there may be content that is inappropriate but is not reported and noticed, since there is no one mod really responsible for supervising profiles or groups. I guess what I'm asking is: If I post warez links on my profile, can the mod of the Monastery give me warning points and edit the post? And is that even in his job description?

Your comments on dedicated forums hit close to the mark though. With each forum is a mod, the responsibility and rules are both well defined. This may be lacking at the moment with profiles and groups.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Do full staff have powers outside their domain though? And while they may get reports, there may be content that is inappropriate but is not reported and noticed, since there is no one mod really responsible for supervising profiles or groups. I guess what I'm asking is: If I post warez links on my profile, can the mod of the Monastery give me warning points and edit the post? And is that even in his job description?Yes, I believe they can edit and give warning points. They are, as far as I know, not forced to be tied to a post - for example, if I was able to, I could warn you when you have no posts at all or have posted outside my jurisdiction.

It probably doesn't fit in with the job description though and policing all profiles would be an endless task. That's why I suggested self-moderation (through the ability to delete) by owners earlier in the thread. It is an opt-in/opt-out function, allowing users to quit should they not have the desire to maintain their own page. Obviously they cannot issue punishments, they'd have to contact a full mod or admin for that. Possibly PMs could be sent out to those not keeping their pages clean advising them to do so or disable the function.

~:)

[Aemilius Paulus]

Well, social groups are not the cause of all those problems. I am currently enjoying being a member of the EB Tavern. If you go there, you will find that it is full of political discussions, and not really a place for spam anymore. It used to be, but that largely changed after I joined in and more political discussions began. These forums will have a very oppressive and totalitarian climate if all those groups will be closed down. Plus, it is not fair. Most of the people who call for the shut-down of the Social Groups are not a part of some group they enjoy. They do not know what it is like to discuss anything that comes on your mind without moderators locking the thread because it is off-topic. Where else will we talk about such things? I will be very, very disappointed if that happens.

What we should do is endow the creators of those Social Groups with the responsibility to edit out all references to piracy/porn/cursewords/etc. If they do not, then their group will be shut down. If the creators of the social groups do not want to hold that responsibility, then try to find some other member of the group who wishes to be the moderator. If no members of the group volunteer, THEN shut it down. If the moderator of the group fails to moderate, give him/her a warning. The next (or third/however many times you like) time they fail to edit out the inappropriate things, shut down the group. I know that moderators are already as busy as they are, so I think this is a good, fair solution, and plus, Omanes Alexandrapolites earlier suggested the similar thing as well.

As for spam in the Social Groups, I do not see what is the problem. It is a Social Group, for Pete's sakes! Posts there do not increase one's post count, nor do they distract other people. You have a choice of joining and leaving a group.

Finally, shutting down all the groups is grossly unfair to the ones who have been behaving well.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I would hesitate calling a potential shutdown of social groups "oppressive" or "totalitarian" or anything of a similar nature, since they didn't even exist on the forum prior to six or seven months ago. It's not like their introduction turned the .Org from a repressive, brutal regime to the shiny, happy paradise that it is today.

[Lemur]

I am currently enjoying being a member of the EB Tavern. If you go there, you will find that it is full of political discussions, and not really a place for spam anymore.
Pull my other leg, it's got bells on it.


They do not know what it is like to discuss anything that comes on your mind without moderators locking the thread because it is off-topic. Where else will we talk about such things?
How about the rest of the freakin' internet?


Finally, shutting down all the groups is grossly unfair to the ones who have been behaving well.
When a vocal minority finds a way to spam, curse, advocate piracy and generally urinate on their entire environment, it means innocents will suffer. Too bad.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I would hesitate calling a potential shutdown of social groups "oppressive" or "totalitarian" or anything of a similar nature, since they didn't even exist on the forum prior to six or seven months ago. It's not like their introduction turned the .Org from a repressive, brutal regime to the shiny, happy paradise that it is today.


When a vocal minority finds a way to spam, curse, advocate piracy and generally urinate on their entire environment, it means innocents will suffer. Too bad.

Ironic discussion is ironic. I also love how mods promote the sense of community here and eliminating spam and such to keep this a tight community, but when we like to talk about off topic things other then Total War games or the numerous personal life advice threads in the frontroom, we are no longer part of the community and instead causing trouble. The bias coming off of Lemur against social groups such as the Tavern is so obvious that I honestly don't even feel like arguing for keeping social groups because I know it is pointless. Gee, what a great community.

[Strike For The South]

Ironic discussion is ironic. I also love how mods promote the sense of community here and eliminating spam and such to keep this a tight community, but when we like to talk about off topic things other then Total War games or the numerous personal life advice threads in the frontroom, we are no longer part of the community and instead causing trouble. The bias coming off of Lemur against social groups such as the Tavern is so obvious that I honestly don't even feel like arguing for keeping social groups because I know it is pointless. Gee, what a great community.

No Lemur is completly in the right.

I've seen some profile pages and some threads in the frontroom that are utterly disgusting. Its the being vulgar for attentions sake. If it's not vulgarity it is simply spam. You can post anything in the traditional tavern. Just look at the threads in there now. This forum gives plenty of leeway, I don't want to see us change because some boys feel like the internet is anything goes.

The Org is the only forum I post on, there is a reason for that.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I can see where the profile pages could go wrong, because people look at others profiles all the time. But getting rid of the social groups, where you can read its description before reading the conversation and having the choice in the first place to be a part of it or not? This is just ridiculous, I don't like any of the ******** torrent and piracy talk, I just want a place to talk to others in the community about interesting things. No offense Strike but if the Frontroom conversations are turning into "I saw a fat pigeon today" https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112151 or "Who hates bees?" https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112330 or even "What's your favorite cheese?" https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112005 then something has gone wrong. If that is the kind of conversations to be expected from the Frontroom I might as well comply with all the changes the mods want to my profile so I can enter the backroom and at least read something interesting other then another interview about ETW.

[Strike For The South]

So get your boys to come to the frontroom. It appears y'all have interesting convos, I want to hear them! Just don't click on the threads if you don't like them. People have other hobbies than yours. As evidenced by the recent fitness threads, some people click on the thread to insult and troll because its something they don't understand.

If you want to be vulgar fine, you're just going to have to do it somewhere else.

Besides the pigeon thread is classic. A member misread the title and still found it entertaining. You should talk to him. He sounds like he knows his stuff.

[pevergreen]

It is an off topic area. As long as its not too far into spam and can actually go somewhere, why should the off topic area be moderated that strictly.

From the brief stint that the EB tavern was in the frontroom, I don't think there was one post in that entire thing that wasn't someone underage pretending to be drinking in a bar.

If you don't like it here, leave. Its tough, but it works well in places where it is enforced. Nothing is stopping you having your own set of forums somwhere else.

Keep in mind, we don't have rights. We are here as long as Tosa lets us be. It is a privilage, not a right, (punk).

The punk was added because typing that out made me remember a Terry Tate, Office Linebacker ad, where he says that. :laugh4:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Besides the pigeon thread is classic. A member misread the title and still found it entertaining. You should talk to him. He sounds like he knows his stuff.

I read this thread because I thought he said "fought it" not "caught it", but this is still entertaining nonetheless.

Looks like I will just have to help make the frontroom more interesting.... Still, having a social group is a fun way to have a little clique within the community and I just didn't want that to end because some people ruined it.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Might I suggest you edit out the name of that torrent site ACIM - its not a good idea to give the name of illegal file sharing websites.

~:)

[a completely inoffensive name]

Might I suggest you edit out the name of that torrent site ACIM - its not a good idea to give the name of illegal file sharing websites.

~:)

Done, I came up with something clever instead, oh and its ACIN.

-ACIN

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Sorry ACIN (the M key is next to the N key, finger must have slipped :embarassed:)

[caravel]

The bias coming off of Lemur against social groups such as the [EB] Tavern is so obvious that I honestly don't even feel like arguing for keeping social groups because I know it is pointless. Gee, what a great community.
Lemur, SFTS and others are merely stating the facts. There is no bias, the groups are not needed and are bad for the .org as a whole. If the groups had any real merit, no one would be arguing for their closure - yet this thread is full of members asking for exactly that.


No Lemur is completely in the right.

I've seen some profile pages and some threads in the frontroom that are utterly disgusting. Its the being vulgar for attentions sake. If it's not vulgarity it is simply spam. You can post anything in the traditional tavern. Just look at the threads in there now. This forum gives plenty of leeway, I don't want to see us change because some boys feel like the internet is anything goes.

The Org is the only forum I post on, there is a reason for that.

I remember stumbling upon the particular social group you mention. It was full of immature vulgarity, profanity, poor humour and spam posts. I am amazed it was even allowed to exist on this site. Even though these groups are mostly private, this does not stop a minor from registering, joining the group and reading this unsuitable content. :no:

I don't see any reason as to why those very few decent social groups can not simply become threads in the relevant Tavern subfora - where they can be subject to routine moderation. The social groups and profile messages can then be disabled completely.

:bow:

[TosaInu]

Hello,

Some people don't like the Backroom: I don't like to lock down the Backroom.
Some people don't like M2TW: I don't like to lock down the M2TW forums.
Some people don't like Social Groups: I don't like to lock down Social Groups.

However, it all has to be clean. That means no warez, no linkz, no 18+, no slurs/insults/badmouting, no vulgarities, no 18+. How's cleaning of the Personal Pages and Social Groups going?

[Fixiwee]

no slurs/insults/badmouting, no vulgarities
Well that's unrealistic. We are living in the era of vulgaris.


How's cleaning of the Personal Pages and Social Groups going?
I guess in most cases it won't happen. No sane person will spent 2 hours of his life browsing his past 2 years posts to delete stuff from the past. You should just make tabula rasa and let everyone have a clean sheet. You can always make exception between de facto and de jure.

[Thermal]

Some people don't like M2TW: I don't like to lock down the M2TW forums.


They do? how could someone be insane enough to block out forums to the newest Total war game released to date? blasphemy!


Anyway i'm glad the site leader has broader views than some others :bow:

@fixiwee

I don't want my personal page to be a new clean sheet, the messages already left are all clean, if others aren't it's there responsibility to delete unsuitable messages

[Andres]

On the issue of posting links to (sites dedicated at) illegal downloads, I'd like to remind everyone of the fact that it is considered illegal in most countries.

With that in mind, I'd like to remind the membership of this particular part of the GuildFAQ, which you agreed to by creating an account at the Org:


We at The Guild also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

Please, keep in mind that you can and probably will be in serious trouble by posting links to illegal downloads or to sites dedicated to piracy and illegal downloading.

This goes further than just getting warning points or the ban of your account at a gamersforum.

:bow:

[TosaInu]

Well that's unrealistic. We are living in the era of vulgaris.


I'm a caveman, doesn't mean I act like one every hour of the day.



I guess in most cases it won't happen. No sane person will spent 2 hours of his life browsing his past 2 years posts to delete stuff from the past. You should just make tabula rasa and let everyone have a clean sheet. You can always make exception between de facto and de jure.

I'm talking about Profile Pages and Social groups, those exist for less than a year now, not two.
Not cleaning is fine, but I won't spend more time than necessary either.



I don't want my personal page to be a new clean sheet, the messages already left are all clean, if others aren't it's there responsibility to delete unsuitable messages

Members can clean their own pages and there's also a report button at each post. If it's clean 777Ares777, then it's clean, thank you.

[TinCow]

I also love how mods promote the sense of community here and eliminating spam and such to keep this a tight community, but when we like to talk about off topic things other then Total War games or the numerous personal life advice threads in the frontroom, we are no longer part of the community and instead causing trouble. The bias coming off of Lemur against social groups such as the Tavern is so obvious that I honestly don't even feel like arguing for keeping social groups because I know it is pointless. Gee, what a great community.

I was the mod who took the time to peruse the profiles of various members of the Org and noticed an absurdly high number of very serious Org rule violations in public conversations. I reported these, as is my job. The rest has happened as a result. Since I have had absolutely no interaction with the EB Tavern in the past, I find charges of bias in this situation to be extremely misplaced.

Many of the comments I saw and reported would have resulted in very serious infractions if they had been posted in any normal thread, and many more would have resulted in an outright ban. Attempting to circumvent the rules by doing it in profiles instead of public threads does not change the nature of the actions.

[Fixiwee]

I'm a caveman, doesn't mean I act like one every hour of the day
Come on. Noone will search his social group or his own profile page to finde every single "fu.." and delete it. That's so narrow-minded.


I'm talking about Profile Pages and Social groups, those exist for less than a year now, not two.
Not cleaning is fine, but I won't spend more time than necessary either.
Let me step forward and say some honest and constructive criticism. See, the problem with all this is the way you do it. I agree with you, this is an issue that should be taken care of. But after your announcment all these pseudo-saints fly in and point their finger at other people. It just gets people edgy.
Why not make a closed-thread announcment and discuss it with specific members by pm. Get's the job done efficiently and people don't have hurt feelings. I mean look at all the posts by people demanding to close social groups. This is ridiculous and gets out of hand.

[Pannonian]

Wipe profile pages, give social groups a chance to register before you wipe them, then make the group leaders responsible for moderating their groups, and wipe the unregistered ones. Put a moderator in charge of keeping a tab on these social groups. This allows sensible groups to exist, but also keeps moderation reasonably practical.

[caravel]

Come on. Noone will search his social group or his own profile page to finde every single "fu.." and delete it. That's so narrow-minded.
Agreed, the most realistic option from a staff point of view is to close these groups down and remove the "feature" permanently. This will avoid such an issue.

Luckily for those involved in these groups TosaInu does not see it our way. The groups seem safe for now, so cleaning them up ASAP, to ensure that they remain so, should now be the priority of those involved in them.

:bow:

[Fixiwee]

the most realistic option from a staff point of view is to close these groups down and remove the "feature" permanently.
That would just anger a lot of innocent posters (including me).
Why let the others have fun, right? Right?

[pevergreen]

Why do you need a social group? Why close yourself off? Why not post where the .Org as a whole can join in. Why not just let it be moderated?

[TosaInu]

Hello Fixiwee,


Come on. Noone will search his social group or his own profile page to finde every single "fu.." and delete it. That's so narrow-minded.

If people put an extra second of thought about where they are and what they agreed to before submitting their messages, there would be no need for this entire topic nor the enormous amount of work by moderators to maintain a tidy place.


Let me step forward and say some honest and constructive criticism. See, the problem with all this is the way you do it. I agree with you, this is an issue that should be taken care of. But after your announcment all these pseudo-saints fly in and point their finger at other people. It just gets people edgy.
Why not make a closed-thread announcment and discuss it with specific members by pm. Get's the job done efficiently and people don't have hurt feelings. I mean look at all the posts by people demanding to close social groups. This is ridiculous and gets out of hand.


No sane person will spent 2 hours of his life browsing

PM'ing each member personally (and probably missing a couple) and then replying, counter replying and so on costs much more than 2 hours here. It's not a 180 degree change of policy: every member was anonymous and privately read the rules and agreed with them before signing up for this board. Every anonymous person has the right to decline those and move on.

It's Thursday.

[Thermal]

If people put an extra second of thought about where they are and what they agreed to before submitting their messages, there would be no need for this entire topic nor the enormous amount of work by moderators to maintain a tidy place.







I have to agree with the site leader here, If members don't abide by the rules in there posts, then they are responsible for removing them, if they get punished for failing to remove unsuitable material then the members in question have hanged themselves with there own rope as to speak.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

If we're going to keep them, my suggestion is that all new group ideas must be approved by moderators and given clear guidelines that should be followed (the same also could apply to hosted mod forums to reduce the number that fail, but I'm digressing).

Regardless of what is done in the future, however, a clean up is needed to get rid of all existing social groups that are not nurturing/capable of nurturing anything useful. Many are just excuses for spam, but some have an excessively limited discussion possibility and others have forums 100% dedicated towards the subject they wish to discuss (rendering the group worthless).

What needs to go IMO:
The Ichigo fan club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=8) (fan clubs are just an excuse to spam - if you love somebody so much, use their profile page/the PM functions to tell them)
The Official Askthepizzaguy Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=10)
The Anti Camel Organization (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=22) (discussion possibilities too limited)
The "Spartan: Total Warrior" Avatar Usergroup (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=29) (discussion possibilities too limited)
:-{| (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=60) (no idea what this is about, so I advise its destruction)
Methuselah's Palace (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=45)
MP Players (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=5) (MP forums exists for all that)
People Who Like To Complain (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=44) (discussion possibilities too limited)
The Controversial Ones (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=31)(discussion possibilities too limited)
The Order of the Believers (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=27) (discussion possibilities too limited)
Order of the Camel (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=20) (unless we suddenly have an increase in Saharan nomads, discussion possibilities are too limited)
The proud place of Graal (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=48)
AntiWarmanCake88 Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=11)
The Brood Smilie of Paradox group (For all your Brooding needs) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=34) (discussion possibilities too limited)
WotB (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=46) (there's a forum for this I believe)
Mafia Players (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=2) (Gameroom exists for this)
{BHC}King Jan III Sobieski Fan Club! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=47)
General Appo´s closet. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=49) (profiles exist for this)
anelious phyros fan club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=26)
Cashews And Milk (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=4) (discussion possibilities too limited)
N.A.M.B.L.A. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=21) (discussion possibilities too limited)
Wars of the Diadochi Team (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=1) (fine, but a private forum would probably be a better solution)
Clown Lovers Group (CLG) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=18) (discussion possibilities too limited)
The Official Zim Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=19)
Flaxy Baby Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=25)
Camels: remove them! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=35) (discussion possibilities too limited)
Jousting Guild (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=6) (forum for this)
Husar Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=13)

I'm uncertain about The EB Tavern (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=30) - I'd like to see what's in it first before I make my personal judgement over its nature. Same applies to Veteran's Haven (IC LotR Group) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=37) - there is a forum dedicated to this sort of thing and, if the discussion is just an extension of what is there, then it has no value.


Don't be offended if I've listed your group - all of them are way too spammy, these are just the ones which I see being very hard to steer in the right direction.

Regardless of what I've just said, I still am strongly in favour of scrapping them entirely - new features aren't always good and sometimes have the potential to degrade the quality of the community rather than improve it.

~:)

[Crazed Rabbit]

I can't bring myself to strongly oppose a ban on public profile chatting and social groups. I don't see them as adding a lot that can't be achieved in the public forums, like having an EB Bar in one of the rooms of the tavern (Just don't let it become nothing but spam). And considering all the against-the-rules action that's been going on, I can see the pressing need for the whole out of forum area to be brought under control.

All you young whippersnappers don't remember what it was back in the olden times, when we didn't have none of these fancy pants social groups what for flapping our pie holes at each other. No, when we wanted to form a group we didn't hide like moonshiners from the revenuers in the backwoods, we went right out to the middle of the plain and set up camp right smack dab in the middle of some of the fiercest forums I've ever set eyes upon. Ayup, I remember back some time when the conservative club was set up in the tavern - we didn't have any of these high falutin' multiple rooms designed to cater to your every whim so as to make you into a man-child - and so our club was right next to threads about how Arafat was evil or good and threads with funny videos. We didn't try to dodge scrutiny like one of these prohibition-flauntin' politicians, we set up our fortress and took on all comers right in the middle of the forum, braving relentless attacks by pinko commies and keynesians on every side. But we fought on and kept on discussing.

But it seems you kids now-a-days with your 'wireless' internets and talking cats and more sub forums than you can shake a stick at don't have the same amount of gumption and guts we old timers were raised with.

CR

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

If we're going to keep them, my suggestion is that all new group ideas must be approved by moderators and given clear guidelines that should be followed (the same also could apply to hosted mod forums to reduce the number that fail, but I'm digressing).

Regardless of what is done in the future, however, a clean up is needed to get rid of all existing social groups that are not nurturing/capable of nurturing anything useful. Many are just excuses for spam, but some have an excessively limited discussion possibility and others have forums 100% dedicated towards the subject they wish to discuss (rendering the group worthless).

What needs to go IMO:
The Ichigo fan club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=8) (fan clubs are just an excuse to spam - if you love somebody so much, use their profile page/the PM functions to tell them)
The Official Askthepizzaguy Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=10)
The Anti Camel Organization (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=22) (discussion possibilities too limited)
The "Spartan: Total Warrior" Avatar Usergroup (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=29) (discussion possibilities too limited)
:-{| (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=60) (no idea what this is about, so I advise its destruction)
Methuselah's Palace (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=45)
MP Players (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=5) (MP forums exists for all that)
People Who Like To Complain (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=44) (discussion possibilities too limited)
The Controversial Ones (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=31)(discussion possibilities too limited)
The Order of the Believers (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=27) (discussion possibilities too limited)
Order of the Camel (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=20) (unless we suddenly have an increase in Saharan nomads, discussion possibilities are too limited)
The proud place of Graal (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=48)
AntiWarmanCake88 Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=11)
The Brood Smilie of Paradox group (For all your Brooding needs) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=34) (discussion possibilities too limited)
WotB (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=46) (there's a forum for this I believe)
Mafia Players (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=2) (Gameroom exists for this)
{BHC}King Jan III Sobieski Fan Club! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=47)
General Appo´s closet. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=49) (profiles exist for this)
anelious phyros fan club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=26)
Cashews And Milk (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=4) (discussion possibilities too limited)
N.A.M.B.L.A. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=21) (discussion possibilities too limited)
Wars of the Diadochi Team (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=1) (fine, but a private forum would probably be a better solution)
Clown Lovers Group (CLG) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=18) (discussion possibilities too limited)
The Official Zim Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=19)
Flaxy Baby Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=25)
Camels: remove them! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=35) (discussion possibilities too limited)
Jousting Guild (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=6) (forum for this)
Husar Fan Club (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=13)

I'm uncertain about The EB Tavern (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=30) - I'd like to see what's in it first before I make my personal judgement over its nature. Same applies to Veteran's Haven (IC LotR Group) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=37) - there is a forum dedicated to this sort of thing and, if the discussion is just an extension of what is there, then it has no value.


Don't be offended if I've listed your group - all of them are way too spammy, these are just the ones which I see being very hard to steer in the right direction.

Regardless of what I've just said, I still am strongly in favour of scrapping them entirely - new features aren't always good and sometimes have the potential to degrade the quality of the community rather than improve it.

~:)



Some of them I argee should go, but all of these Omanes? If we get rid of that many, that add in the rules, let just get rid of them all together.



I disargee with your previous statement of we could just use threads because .Org never died off from excessive thread posting. Do you really want a thread to be made for all these Social Groups? If we don't do it, then you may say we could have, yet if we do, there a chance we could get warned for spamming.


Social Groups and Profile messages server a point. I think Moderators and Members need to work together. You can't expect the Mods to do all the cleaning up, but you can't expect the members to do it all ethier. If someone calls me the N word on my profile or a MF'er, I like a Moderator to talk to that person, not just have me delete it and walk away because a idoit posted something dumb on my profile.



My two Cents! :rtwyes::medievalcheers:

[General Appo]

I would like to start off by saying that I, as founder of the EB Tavern am willing to edit out all references to pornography, piracy and all such things, and will do so from now on. They are not needed nor welcome, and indeed this has been my stance for some time.

I don't really see why we should close the Social Groups. They are a great place for people who know each other well to get together and talk about anything they like. And yes, you say that we can do the same thing in the Front or Backroom, but there are many differences.
So far I have yet to hear any real reason why the Social Groups should be removed. You claim they discuss porn and piracy. I assure, we in the EB Tavern do not, and if anyone does I will remove it. You claim we spam. Well, that's pretty much what they're about, no? Letting people talk about anything they want, without having to start a new thread. Of course, just +1'ing is discouraged and just plan stupid, but as far as I am aware does not occur often.


Anyway, now I must go back policing the EB Tavern. I'm just hoping someone will have posted something porny so I can delete it.

[Fixiwee]

Woa. There sure is a lot of keyboard crusaders against social groups in this thread.

Yeah it must be very bitter to them to accept the fact that some people actually like that option to have their own room to speak and hang out.

[Strike For The South]

Woa. There sure is a lot of keyboard crusaders against social groups in this thread.

Yeah it must be very bitter to them to accept the fact that some people actually like that option to have their own room to speak and hang out.

No one is telling you, you can't hang out. Just don't do it with spam and vulgarity. Which is what many of the pages and profiles have descended into.

[TosaInu]

Hello,

To stress what was said already between the lines in post #1:

Profile Pages and Social groups are not going to be deleted. Whether you want a Social Group for (sorry don't know better word) silly talk with friends, tailored discussion with friends about free-style climbing, discuss the best way to keep yellow tailed lizards, a discussion about rare stamps, the best hair gel, the benefits of playing M2TW, ninja vs hashashin , crossbow militia or v0 horsearchers, or whatever I really don't mind. The only thing that matters is that it's clean, PG-13 compatible, void of linkz, porn, insults, slurs. Something is expected from members when they post in public forums, the same is expected when you post anything anywhere on this site.

No, we are not going to patrol 24/24. We expect members and starters of Social Groups to be responsible.