Retraining, Training, and Combat Experience

[Vuk]

So this is a thing that I have wanted to see in many games for a long time, and I am wondering if CA will have it. I have suggested it to CA before, but so far it has not been used in any of their games. For this one though it is much more important.

What I mean is a system by which certain important unit stats and traits could be manipulated through a system of training, retraining, and combat experience. You can (for a certain amount of gold, at the cost of training other troops, and in a certain amount of time) re/train your troops in certain areas if you have the right tech, facilities, and officers. Things like military marching drills that would improve rank cohesion and formation changing speed as well as marching speed. (of course all these things would have and upward limit and be hard to improve as they get higher) Firing drills could decrease the chance of a gun exploding, a misfire, and decrease reload time. They could even be trained in and have their skill improve in certain maneuvers, etc.
Combat experience could effect every important things like morale, movement speed and fatigue level, reload speed. Likewise if a unit does not have combat experience for too long, these things could start to disintegrate.

I have said this many times before, I hope that CA has tried to implement this somewhat this time around. The different levels of discipline among armies as well as what they were trained with and what drills they had played a huge part in their success or lack there of. Also, combat experience counted for a lot in making a good soldier.

[Fisherking]

From some of the thing said, or implied, it seems you need not retrain when you get a tech upgrade any longer.

Armor upgrades don’t seem to be that big a deal this time through…they don’t wear it any more.

I don’t know or have not heard about weapons upgrades, specifically.

But the fewer upgrades your troops need the better. Especially when you often pay for them and nothing happens, and you need to do it again and again…:wall:

[Vuk]

From some of the thing said, or implied, it seems you need not retrain when you get a tech upgrade any longer.

Armor upgrades don’t seem to be that big a deal this time through…they don’t wear it any more.

I don’t know or have not heard about weapons upgrades, specifically.

But the fewer upgrades your troops need the better. Especially when you often pay for them and nothing happens, and you need to do it again and again…:wall:
I am talking about individually training units. Also, there could be an option to change how your troops will be training in specific settlements/across the board. Whether you want to devote this much of their time to firing drills, this much to marching drills, etc. Even adjust the amount of time that they will spend in training.

[Monk]

I am talking about individually training units. Also, there could be an option to change how your troops will be training in specific settlements/across the board. Whether you want to devote this much of their time to firing drills, this much to marching drills, etc. Even adjust the amount of time that they will spend in training.

There was a game some years back that did this. I forget its name as it's been too long but basically you could set how long you wanted a unit to stay in training. Less training would produce the unit right away and was very cheap, but the unit was very poor quality and was only effective en mass. More time training equaled to higher costs and longer production time, but the result was a unit that was much, much more effective.

It was a really cool aspect of customization where you could set whether to be a zerg player or more oriented around a solid team of highly trained units. I have, however, completely forgotten what game did that. I wish I could remember. I guess that speaks to how much the feature impacted me. :laugh4:

However, as interesting as it would be I doubt we'll see this in ETW. You can already focus on what technologies you can research in regards to armies though, maybe one of those is something that increases training time while also increases starting experience?

[Vuk]

There was a game some years back that did this. I forget its name as it's been too long but basically you could set how long you wanted a unit to stay in training. Less training would produce the unit right away and was very cheap, but the unit was very poor quality and was only effective en mass. More time training equaled to higher costs and longer production time, but the result was a unit that was much, much more effective.

It was a really cool aspect of customization where you could set whether to be a zerg player or more oriented around a solid team of highly trained units. I have, however, completely forgotten what game did that. I wish I could remember. I guess that speaks to how much the feature impacted me. :laugh4:

However, as interesting as it would be I doubt we'll see this in ETW. You can already focus on what technologies you can research in regards to armies though, maybe one of those is something that increases training time while also increases starting experience?

I think that if you went farther and customized how much time was spent with certain aspects of training it would be even better. Then it would not be creating uber units so much as choosing your units specialisation. I would love to see this in a game, what an ocean of tactical depth it would add! It could all be kept realistic with prices, training times, upward limits, etc. That way you would not have players spawning unbeatable armies of perfect soldiers.

[Sir Beane]

Looking at screenshots each unit in Empire seems to have individual bars for its skill and experience in reloading, accuracy, range, melee, charge etc.

The level of experience in a paticular field is represented by a green bar, out of a possible maximum. My theory is that with training and combat experience the bar steadily increases and your unit becomes more effective. Technologies probably also help this increase.

[pevergreen]

Also, mods. :grin2:

[Vuk]

Here's to hoping. :2thumbsup:

[USS Providence 1972]

I think the game assumes that certain types of units have more training than others, thus the additional cost to build and upkeep the more effective units. There is really no substitute for combat experience.

A soldier who will crawl through mud and barbed wire with a machine gun firing blanks over his head might not be as willing if the bullets are live and they are being aimed at him. The most highly trained and equipped troops don't always win the battle. Gallipoli in WWI was a great example. The Turks didn't even have uniforms for most of their troops but still inflicted heavy casualties on the Brits and forced them to withdraw.

[pevergreen]

Gallipoli in WWI was a great example.

I disagree, the ANZACs simply had to take a beach where the Turkish forces had entrenched. It was a bad landing position, and not a good battle for the ANZACs but they still won...eventually.

Edit: Yeah it was not the British, it was the ANZACs (Australian and New Zealand Army Corps)

As for a battle which reputation won, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba.

I never get tired of linking to that battle.

The light horsemen jumped the front trenches and dismounted behind the line where they turned and engaged the Turks with bayonets. The Turks were in many cases so demoralised that they quickly surrendered. One Australian who was dazed after having his horse shot from under him, recovered to find his five attackers with their hands up, waiting to be taken prisoner.

[Polemists]

While it might not be blacksmith and armorer and armor this time around I wouldn't be surprised if they had something like a riflemaker or some such, and that if you built it your men would get higher quality weapons or some such.

[Sir Beane]

While it might not be blacksmith and armorer and armor this time around I wouldn't be surprised if they had something like a riflemaker or some such, and that if you built it your men would get higher quality weapons or some such.

I've definitely seen a cannon foundry in one of the screenshots, so varioues levels of armory building are not unlikely. I think most technologies are going to be linked to the tech tree rather than buildings now though.

[USS Providence 1972]

I disagree, the ANZACs simply had to take a beach where the Turkish forces had entrenched. It was a bad landing position, and not a good battle for the ANZACs but they still won...eventually.

Edit: Yeah it was not the British, it was the ANZACs (Australian and New Zealand Army Corps)



I'm not sure which Gallipoli you are referring to.

About 480,000 Allied troops took part in the Gallipoli campaign. The British had 205,000 casualties (43,000 killed). There were more than 33,600 ANZAC losses (over one-third killed) and 47,000 French casualties (5,000 killed). Turkish casualties are estimated at 250,000 (65,000 killed). (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWgallipoli.htm)

That's the one I'm talking about and the Brits took the majority of allied casualties by far. 43,000 killed in 6 months and they pulled out without ever having established anything more than a beachhead. The tactical retreat was cleverly executed with only one casualty. They were unloading empty cargo boxes by daylight while pulling out their troops at night. It is an excellent example of an army with inferior supplies and training winning. When the German officer who was commanding the Turks initially reviewed the troops the Turks had to pass their lice infested uniforms from one unit to the next because they did not have enough uniforms to go around. They used the bodies of their own dead to reinforce walls in their trenches. They were a tough bunch as the Brits found out the hard way.

For a detailed look at the battle I would recommend Castles of Steel.