UN lied about IDF shells hitting school [Archive]

Hooahguy

02-16-2009, 17:14

there was a Guardian link somewhere that someone posted here but i cant find it now.
but here is haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061189.html) link
and an ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2008/s2484349.htm) link

EDIT: NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/world/middleeast/17israel.html?pagewanted=2&ref=middleeast)

“While they did not attack the school directly, they have to take into account civilians there."

another NY Times link (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:13Q1xMolW1UJ:www.carlisle.army.mil/ietcop/documents/NYT%2520-%2520Weighing%2520Crimes%2520and%2520Ethics%2520in%2520the%2520Fog%2520of%2520Warfare%252017%2520JAN %252009.doc+said+that+Hamas+fired+just+outside+the+school+compound,+probably+from+the+secluded+court yard+of+a+house+across+the+street,+25+yards+from+the+school.+Israeli+return+fire,+some+minutes+later ,+also+landed+outside+the+school,+along+the+southwest+wall,+killing+two+Hamas+fighters.+Nearly+all+t he+casualties+were+in+the+street+outside+the+compound,+with+only+three+people+wounded+from+shrapnel+ inside+the+walls.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a)

Witnesses, including Hanan Abu Khajib, 39, said that Hamas fired just outside the school compound, probably from the secluded courtyard of a house across the street, 25 yards from the school. Israeli return fire, some minutes later, also landed outside the school, along the southwest wall, killing two Hamas fighters. Nearly all the casualties were in the street outside the compound, with only three people wounded from shrapnel inside the walls.

Fragony

02-16-2009, 18:29

Old news this was known weeks ago, people never wonder who exactly the UN in gaza are. Lefties hungrily gob up everything Hamas feeds them, they only think they are lying when they say they want to kill jews.

Marshal Murat

02-16-2009, 19:54

im not surprised that they lied.

Come on Hooah, they didn't lie. They simply "misspoke"

Hooahguy

02-16-2009, 19:56

riiiiight.......

Lord Winter

02-16-2009, 21:24

In the end does it make a difference? The school wasn't the only civillian target they hit.

Scurvy

02-16-2009, 21:38

In the end does it make a difference? The school wasn't the only civillian target they hit.

It makes a difference in trusting the UN, who the international community tend to rely on for at least 'fair' feedback - although it does seem several people were injured inside the school they clearly either lied, or at least made no effort to correct news stories

- as for the second link, im sure the IDF can be relied on for providing the Palestinian death toll...

Fragony

02-16-2009, 21:43

It makes a difference in trusting the UN, who the international community tend to rely on for at least 'fair' feedback -

Again, who are the UN personal in Gaza, pretty faceless for such a worrying region, considering.

Hooahguy

02-16-2009, 21:51

- as for the second link, im sure the IDF can be relied on for providing the Palestinian death toll...
and im sure that hamas can be relied upon for giving us a reliable death toll. :rolleyes:

tibilicus

02-16-2009, 22:32

Hmm I think they must of lied as the UN are in conspiracy with hamas to take down Israel and destroy the country.

I feel so sorry for Israel everyone in the world is against them, they just can't see that Israel is a bastion of hope in a region surrounded by evil Muslims who want to destroy us all. I think this latest report is more damming evidence that even the UN to is anti-semetic.

In all seriousness now I think it was probably an honest mistake, unless you buy into the whole "world conspiracy against Israel" as I sarcastically portrayed above.

Also what purpose does this thread serve other than prising up the old flames of the countless threads revolving around Israel and Gaza which if memory serves me correct every single one has been locked. Also it seems to be the pro Israelis here who continuously want to bring this issue up.

Just be hopeful that your country has a new government and that means that you might start taking a new direction which doesn't involve you invading your neighbours every two years.

Fragony

02-16-2009, 22:39

Hmm I think they must of lied as the UN are in conspiracy with hamas to take down Israel and destroy the country.

There is no UN in gaza, only UN spokepersons, who also happen to be hamas members/associates, lotsa money to be made for the exceptionally cynical.

tibilicus

02-16-2009, 23:01

There is no UN in gaza, only UN spokepersons, who also happen to be hamas members/associates, lotsa money to be made for the exceptionally cynical.

I thought the UN school in questions was run by the UN and the UN also had various refugee camps in the region?

Wouldn't that constitute the UN being in Gaza?

Hooahguy

02-17-2009, 02:16

the reason why i brought it up is because i was not sure that everyone knew and i want everyone to know the truth.

tibilicus

02-17-2009, 02:20

the reason why i brought it up is because i was not sure that everyone knew and i want everyone to know the truth.

Just remember it's only the truth from one side. I'm certain both sides lied in the conflict, both lied about deaths ect.

At the end of the day I don't think either side will ever look like a winner or the good guy in all of this. As I said before lets just hope Israel's new government will take them forward, not 50 years back in the past.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

02-17-2009, 03:05

Just remember it's only the truth from one side. I'm certain both sides lied in the conflict, both lied about deaths ect.

:inquisitive:

The UN confirmed it. They're not exactly pro-Israeli. It seems to be pretty much established fact now that they've confirmed that Israel didn't bomb the school, no?

tibilicus

02-17-2009, 03:11

:inquisitive:

The UN confirmed it. They're not exactly pro-Israeli. It seems to be pretty much established fact now that they've confirmed that Israel didn't bomb the school, no?

I'm addressing the whole conflict as a whole when I said both sides have lied. as I mentioned earlier it was probably an honest mistake by the UN, I highly doubt they would of gone out of their way to undermine Israel.

And of course the UN isn't meant to be pro-Israeli, it's not meant to be pro any one it's meant to be neutral. Weather it is, is a completely different matter but on paper it's not supposed to be pro any one.

Devastatin Dave

02-17-2009, 04:25

Also what purpose does this thread serve other than prising up the old flames of the countless threads revolving around Israel and Gaza which if memory serves me correct every single one has been locked. Also it seems to be the pro Israelis here who continuously want to bring this issue up.

Don't worry it'll get closed because it puts the UN in a bad light and shows that Hamas is full of crap again. These threads don't stay open unless its attacking the West or Israel.

Fragony

02-17-2009, 08:30

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2009/02/16/the-battle-for-accuracy-in-the-media-is-engaged-the-army-weighs-in-on-casualty-figures/

They stole my hydra reference :no:

Banquo's Ghost

02-17-2009, 08:46

Don't worry it'll get closed because it puts the UN in a bad light and shows that Hamas is full of crap again. These threads don't stay open unless its attacking the West or Israel.

At the risk of derailing this thread, I cannot let this pass.

I am getting sick and tired of the accusations of bias thrown so casually about. None of the moderators on this site get paid, we are all volunteers. We spend our time wading through the posts in the Backroom trying to ensure that it is a pleasant, constructive and peaceful place for friends to debate the issues of the day. We each have our own views but we try constantly not to allow those to influence our decisions - and consult with each other on many occasions to ensure we are not stepping over that line.

You want to try that some time. You want to try and put up with some of the deviance and plain hatred that slips out into the forum. You want to try and stifle your own passions and emotions to ensure that others can enjoy this forum. You want to read some of the PMs that patrons send to "defend" themselves.

One day you might find the Backroom closed for good because there is no one left that wants to spend their leisure time putting up with being insulted and patronised. Frankly, there are days, and you just made this one of them, where I wouldn't care a jot if that happened.

And for your information, not that fact will make a difference, the last two Gaza threads were closed because some people couldn't stop comparing Israel with Nazis.

So yes, Dave, you hit a nerve. Feels satisfied if you wish. Maybe you'll twig that there are human beings back here.

Fragony

02-17-2009, 08:55

unjust accusations, learn to love them ~:pat:

Strike For The South

02-17-2009, 09:11

BG I like you :thumbsup:

rory_20_uk

02-17-2009, 10:55

At the risk of derailing this thread, I cannot let this pass.

I am getting sick and tired of the accusations of bias thrown so casually about. None of the moderators on this site get paid, we are all volunteers. We spend our time wading through the posts in the Backroom trying to ensure that it is a pleasant, constructive and peaceful place for friends to debate the issues of the day. We each have our own views but we try constantly not to allow those to influence our decisions - and consult with each other on many occasions to ensure we are not stepping over that line.

You want to try that some time. You want to try and put up with some of the deviance and plain hatred that slips out into the forum. You want to try and stifle your own passions and emotions to ensure that others can enjoy this forum. You want to read some of the PMs that patrons send to "defend" themselves.

One day you might find the Backroom closed for good because there is no one left that wants to spend their leisure time putting up with being insulted and patronised. Frankly, there are days, and you just made this one of them, where I wouldn't care a jot if that happened.

And for your information, not that fact will make a difference, the last two Gaza threads were closed because some people couldn't stop comparing Israel with Nazis.

So yes, Dave, you hit a nerve. Feels satisfied if you wish. Maybe you'll twig that there are human beings back here.

BG, you're right. When something is working it is easy to forget about it and not recognise the work that goes in. You mods do a fantastic job and I'm sure I'm not the only one that forgets you all are not neccesarily calm and even handed - but you actively have to try to present this image. :bow:

~:smoking:

Husar

02-17-2009, 12:47

Banquo > Dave the barbarian

On the UN issue, well, so they either lied or they screwed up, it's hard to say but the thought that politicians could lie really shocks me ever since they found the WMDs in Iraq. :sweatdrop:

Jolt

02-17-2009, 13:06

I'm pretty sure in the forthcoming days the news: "Palestinian Doctor lied in live television about his house being hit while he spoke live".

tibilicus

02-17-2009, 13:26

Don't worry it'll get closed because it puts the UN in a bad light and shows that Hamas is full of crap again. These threads don't stay open unless its attacking the West or Israel.

Your way of the point. There is just as many Pro Israelis here who supported the war as people who were against their recent incursion into Gaza.

Fragony

02-17-2009, 14:13

Your way of the point. There is just as many Pro Israelis here who supported the war as people who were against their recent incursion into Gaza.

Well I notice a slight bias, being pro-Israel is politically incorrect, sobbing for dead terrorists on the other hand is politically correct. Mods are only human, try it what hits you harder.

- the Israeli's are scum
- the Palestinians are scum

I don't know what warning the other side gets from time to time I expect they get them, but sometimes I am a bit mwah was that really necesary. This isn't in any way meant as critisism mind you it's a hard subject.

LittleGrizzly

02-17-2009, 14:56

The fact is since we had the last Israeli discussion there is only one member who hasn't returned to the backroom (i assumed he's still banned) and im sure if you think on it you now which member im on about. Not that i think there is a bias (SF, BG you guys rule!) but if one is too be argued from the evidence it would be far more likely to be the other way around... not that a little thing like evidence would stop dave ranting...

Fragony

02-17-2009, 15:03

Who was banned?

LittleGrizzly

02-17-2009, 15:27

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Maybe I should include the word bollocks here to make it a bit more obvious...

Fragony

02-17-2009, 15:49

Oh boy, that's a bit harsh, of course he hates my guts but can't dislike the guy

Hooahguy

02-17-2009, 16:48

i dont think he was banned. i checked his profile and it says hes still a member.
but if that is true, i mourn his leaving, for even though he got annoying at times, he brings up good points and makes me think.
:bow:

EDIT: tibilicus, there have been 5 threads on israel/gaza, not including this one. out of those, only 1 was started by a pro-israel member.
just FYI.

Furunculus

02-17-2009, 17:25

Oh boy, that's a bit harsh, of course he hates my guts but can't dislike the guy
Tribseman..................?

Fragony

02-17-2009, 17:41

Tribseman..................?

Well yes, how can someone really dislike Tribesman. If this banning thing is true then I am really sad to see him go.

tibilicus

02-17-2009, 17:42

EDIT: tibilicus, there have been 5 threads on israel/gaza, not including this one. out of those, only 1 was started by a pro-israel member.
just FYI.

I don't think any of the threads were started by anti-Israelis though were they?

Just because people disagreed with the methods used by Israel in the conflict which resulted in an unnecessary amount of civilian casualties doesn't make them anti-Israeli or pro-hamas.

Fragony

02-17-2009, 17:57

I don't think any of the threads were started by anti-Israelis though were they?

Just because people disagreed with the methods used by Israel in the conflict which resulted in an unnecessary amount of civilian casualties doesn't make them anti-Israeli or pro-hamas.

The lies about civilian casualties make people anti-Israeli or pro-hamas. Civilian casualties, 1/3, in the most densely populated region of the world, impressive, if anyone can't see a patern there, and I am talking about Israel not targetting civilians, they have already made up their mind and I wonder why. Is it because it's a jewish state or is it because it's a western one, or is it just convenient because we have imported just about everything that is as useless to us as tits on a bycicle, yet flamable. Let's not forget Hamas rounding up children, pregnant women and just about everyone who can't pay Hamas the 8000 euro (or was it dollars) that is required to use their tunnels to flee to Egypt and are so very useful when they are covering at leat 5 meters with their entrails. And booohooohoo we do.

Ser Clegane

02-17-2009, 17:57

Just for clarification - Tribesman has not been banned.

The concern is noted and appreciated though, as it shows that despite the clashes that we have here, there is still a good sense of community

:bow:

Hooahguy

02-17-2009, 18:10

LittleGrizzly

02-17-2009, 20:34

Oops.. my bad. Asumption is the mother of something... my main point is i think the mods are pretty fair warnings seem to be given out pretty consistently rather than just to paticular political views...

Evil_Maniac From Mars

02-17-2009, 22:19

I don't think any of the threads were started by anti-Israelis though were they?

I think the last one was, at very least...

Hooahguy

02-17-2009, 22:26

I think the last one was, at very least...
and so was the one before that, and so was the very first one.... :idea2:

tibilicus

02-17-2009, 22:32

and so was the one before that, and so was the very first one.... :idea2:

So you've forgotten the "Palestine should be disbanded permanently" thread?

At best the so called "anti-Israeli" threads called for an end to the fighting not an end to a whole nation. So lets see the so called anti-Israeli people call for a ceasefire whilst extreme pro-Israelis call for the Palestinian state to not even exist? Hmmmm, wonder which side is being the most extreme..

You know we could play this ball game all day and just hit it back and forth or you could all accept that there isn't tons of pro-hamas loving militants on these forums and that the Israel supporters are probably out weighing them if not in numbers at least in extremity.

After all which supposed side is still continuing this long boring topic wheeeeeyyy after hostilities ceased? I know for one im past caring. The two sides could continue fighting each other for years and I probably wouldn't care any more, the outcomes probably going to be the same.

Maybe we should all shut up about Israel for a bit, or at least until they invade one of their neighbours in 2 years time because lets all be honest, it's sure as hell will happen.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

02-17-2009, 22:33

At best the so called "anti-Israeli" threads called for an end to the fighting not an end to a whole nation.

Forgotten about Bopa, have you? IIRC, his opinion was what the "Palestine should be disbanded" thread was started partially as a response to, but I'm sure rvg will correct me.

tibilicus

02-17-2009, 22:36

Forgotten about Bopa, have you? IIRC, his opinion was what the "Palestine should be disbanded" thread was started partially as a response to, but I'm sure rvg will correct me.

I can't recall what Bopa said actually, care to enlighten me?

Also on a side note nice speed in posting a response, you were all over it in a matter of seconds. :beam:

Husar

02-18-2009, 00:49

I'm so glad Tribes wasn't banned, I'm already getting withdrawal symptoms and a ban might have killed me. ~;)

So far I haven't felt like I've been treated unfairly here but then I'm a pinko liberal euroweenie who likes banning freedom of speech. :sweatdrop:

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 01:48

ignore- it is not right to be attacking other members

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 01:50

Sounds like someone is severly misreading Bopa, if it is the comment i am thinking off that you reacted badly too...

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 01:59

misquated, HA! read his post and the ones a bit after.
or ask don.

tibilicus

02-18-2009, 02:02

also, if i may mention, rvg started ONE thread. tribesey started 2, idaho started 1, and i started 1.

So that roughly works out 3-2, a fairly even nubmer of threads for both sides to state their views, and as such my earlier point has now been proven that this board isn't in fact full of pro- Palestine/ anti-Israelis but a good mix of both. So therefore as previously mentioned any argument to claim one side is out weighing another is false.

Also regarding Bopas post which thread was it in? I would like to see it and read over it myself before casting judgement.

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 02:03

If its the one i remember Don getting upset about then there was nothing really untoward in his statement at all, it was simply that people read it (through whatever the opposite of rose tinited glasses are) and got angry at thier assumption of what he meant rather than his actual meaning, he tried to explain this afterwards and even made a reference in his signature to it but some people were much happier charging around full of anger than discovering the truth...

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 02:03

ignore- it is not right to be attacking other members

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 02:06

ignore- it is not right to be attacking other members

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 02:07

I read through his general statements and found nothing more reprehensible than the usual supporting off one side or the other, your going to have to point to a paticular post at the very least (then if you could at least choose which paragraphs it would help alot)

the fact was that bopa clearly had no problem with suicide bombers killing innocents.

are you referring to this line ?

To me it is the right of any occupied people to fight back, I see no difference in the way Israel bombs hostpitals and schools and the way Palestinians blow up school buses, except in the death toll and the idea behind them.

Because i see nothing wrong with this line, the IDF are just as wrong in thier bloody murder as the terrorists..

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 02:10

ignore- it is not right to be attacking other members

Strike For The South

02-18-2009, 02:16

Hooah I would ask you don't invoke other members names when they are not here to defend themselves. I understand you disagree but Bopa isn't the issue here.

Even if he is a sissy rugby player.

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 02:17

sorry. :shame:

anyhow, this thread isnt going anywhere, so if a mod could please close it down ASAP.

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 02:20

Its pretty much a fact rather than some hateful opinion if you think about it.

Israel (rightly or wrongly lets not get into that part) conducts military operations in palestinian terroritory which kills palestinians (terrorists and civilians) ontop of that regular palestinians regularly have to go through checkpoints which disrupt thier daily lives and i have heard a few reports off woman giving birth and dying children having issues at checkpoints, they also dominate most of the natural resources in the area.

They are reasons for palestinians to kill israelis, revenge and having your daily life made a misery are pretty damn good reasons in some people's books but at the very least they are reasons...

His statement does not actually say that it is good to kill innocent israeli civilians or even cheer such an event simply that the palestinians have reasons to kill the israelis... which is true. I mean do you really think every person who attacks israel does so out of brainwashed hatred without even a little personal tragedy to fuel it ?

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 02:25

i thought we said we werent discussing this here? if you really want send me a PM and i will explain to you EXACTLY what i didnt like.

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 02:31

Well you and STFS decided you weren't going to discuss it here whilst some of us were in the middle of constructing our post (bloody rude i tell you!) ~;)

If the issue it to be laid to rest i am happy to go along with that i just felt the need to defend a statement i thought was severly misinterpratated by several people....

tibilicus

02-18-2009, 02:32

These threads always go no where, if only you had all Listened to me 5 posts in.

:no:

Hooahguy

02-18-2009, 02:33

well, go ahead, defend what you think is right. meanwhile, ill go ahead and defend mine.

meanwhile, i really want a mod to close down this thread. nothing is coming from it. aye, tibilicus, you were right....

Strike For The South

02-18-2009, 02:37

We can talk about it. I'm just saying don't put words in his mouth.

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 02:39

I'm just saying don't put words in his mouth.

That's the core of the problem, what he said is fairly accurate, people just decided to assume wicked and malice towards israel in his words...

Strike For The South

02-18-2009, 02:40

I'm just saying don't put words in his mouth.

That's the core of the problem, what he said is fairly accurate, people just decided to assume wicked and malice towards israel in his words...

What, now I'm expected to read these threads?

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 02:47

I know, its a bit more difficult to read and participate rather than propose mass genocide for both offending parties... but hey, thats politics ~;)

Strike For The South

02-18-2009, 02:51

I know, its a bit more difficult to read and participate rather than propose mass genocide for both offending parties... but hey, thats politics ~;)

says the man with no HoF badge ~;)

Evil_Maniac From Mars

02-18-2009, 03:35

That's the core of the problem, what he said is fairly accurate, people just decided to assume wicked and malice towards israel in his words...

It wasn't assumed, it was clearly there. If I recall correctly, he even admitted his "malice toward Israel."

Nonetheless, I shall desist.

LittleGrizzly

02-18-2009, 03:41

It wasn't assumed, it was clearly there.

There was nothing shocking about the statement, plenty of people saw it without malice and Bopa himself stated that is was taken the wrong way, so those who took offence either misinterpratated or assumed some malice in his words

If I recall correctly, he even admitted his "malice toward Israel."

I highly suspect he meant he didn't like israel, as in the goverment, if that is what he meant i would second the statement, i have malice towards the israeli goverment, like i do with with the paelstinian goverment, like i do with almost every country from Zimbabwe to Netherlands, just sort of a sliding scale...

says the man with no HoF badge

:laugh4: touche!