Friend's niece has gone missing

[Visitor13]

Sorry for posting this here, but a Californian friend from another message board would like this to reach as many people as possible:

Dear Friends,


My wonderful wife's niece, Amber, has been missing since Friday. She is only 14. I know many of you do not reside in California or some not even in the USA but if you could pass this along to your contacts maybe someone somewhere might know something.

Here are two web sites with more information about Amber.

www.amberleeannedubois.com (Web site for Amber)

Newspaper article:

http://tinyurl.com/ab53tz

Thank you in advance. Any prayers you might have would be gratefully accepted as well.
If any of you have received this in a form of an email we apologize for the duplication. Just trying to reach as many people as possible.

Brian and Stacy

[KukriKhan]

For what it's worth: this is legitimate, and in my hometown. We got one of those "reverse 911" telephone alerts about Amber yesterday. No more info available at the moment.

[InsaneApache]

Let's hope she comes home safe and sound.

[KukriKhan]

For what it's worth: this is legitimate, and in my hometown. We got one of those "reverse 911" telephone alerts about Amber yesterday. No more info available at the moment.

Is anyone here good at scouring the social networking sites (mySpace, Facebook, Twitter, etc)?

At 14, and in High School, I assume she has or had an online presence.

Her rl name: AMBER LEEANNE DUBOIS

[Ibrahim]

Is anyone here good at scouring the social networking sites (mySpace, Facebook, Twitter, etc)?

At 14, and in High School, I assume she has or had an online presence.

Her rl name: AMBER LEEANNE DUBOIS

searching ATM.

EDIT: terribly sorry. no matches came up in the search on the myspace article. If she had a myspace adress, she did not use her real name upon it. (not unlike me in other words).

I made 32 pages of martches on just Amber dubois, but even then, none were 14, and from California, and none look like her.

[KukriKhan]

searching ATM.

EDIT: terribly sorry. no matches came up in the search on the myspace article. If she had a myspace adress, she did not use her real name upon it. (not unlike me in other words).

Thanks for looking. Other search details might be: age 14, school: Escondido High School, Escondido California. Hobbies: horses, music.

news item with photo (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/02/15/news/inland/escondido/z6b35d6bb746dc6998825755e007ec8b9.txt).

I get no love on Facebook or Twitter with her rl name, also.

[Fragony]

She looks like a nice woman. I hope everything turns out for the best.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Is anyone here good at scouring the social networking sites (mySpace, Facebook, Twitter, etc)?

At 14, and in High School, I assume she has or had an online presence.

Her rl name: AMBER LEEANNE DUBOIS

Couldn't find anything on facebook in a quick search, that is, anyone that looked like it would be her.

The closest I found was the second result while searching for Amber+Dubois (http://www.facebook.com/s.php?sid=aaffc54c58f7a092cb4f73c4185a4c0a&init=q&sf=r&k=400000000010&n=-1&q=AMBER%20DUBOIS) - girl named Amber Dubois from San Diego. But all her friends were from Florida colleges and cities.

Searched for Amber+Leanne+Dubois, Amber+Dubois, Amber+Leanne, Amber+Escondido.

Best of luck to those searching for her. I'll add my prayers.

CR

[Ibrahim]

Couldn't find anything on facebook in a quick search, that is, anyone that looked like it would be her.

The closest I found was the second result while searching for Amber+Dubois (http://www.facebook.com/s.php?sid=aaffc54c58f7a092cb4f73c4185a4c0a&init=q&sf=r&k=400000000010&n=-1&q=AMBER%20DUBOIS) - girl named Amber Dubois from San Diego. But all her friends were from Florida colleges and cities.

Searched for Amber+Leanne+Dubois, Amber+Dubois, Amber+Leanne, Amber+Escondido.

Best of luck to those searching for her. I'll add my prays.

CR

is she 14 though?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Her brief profile didn't say.

EDIT: She had a tiara, which seems unlikely for a 14 year old.

CR

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I hope she is returned safe and in good health.

[KukriKhan]

Thanks for trying, and caring fellas. I'm looking through more obscure social networking places, and gets "hits" but no gold yet.

Her photos on that OP website show her dressed mostly in black, and the news report says she was dressed in black when last seen, so I'm looking at emo, goth, punk, etc places. Maybe she has a secret online life her folks don't know about. In searching, I'm amazed at the amount of 13-18 year old girls who list their orientation as: "Bi". Huh?

Anyhow, thanks again. :bow:

[Visitor13]

Yes, thank you all for your help and good wishes.

[Strike For The South]

In my thoughts. :bow:

[Beefy187]

What we could do is make a Facebook group to gather information about her. I joined one of those group few weeks ago and we managed to find the boy we were looking for.. Not that I contributed..

If you have photo and some brief information, and contact of her parents/relatives thats what we could do.

[Caius]

We hope that this person can go home with the people who are worried about her.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Couldn't find anything on facebook in a quick search, that is, anyone that looked like it would be her.

The closest I found was the second result while searching for Amber+Dubois (http://www.facebook.com/s.php?sid=aaffc54c58f7a092cb4f73c4185a4c0a&init=q&sf=r&k=400000000010&n=-1&q=AMBER%20DUBOIS) - girl named Amber Dubois from San Diego. But all her friends were from Florida colleges and cities.

Searched for Amber+Leanne+Dubois, Amber+Dubois, Amber+Leanne, Amber+Escondido.

Best of luck to those searching for her. I'll add my prays.

CR

I've started a facebook group, since no one else seems to have yet.

Url: http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?gid=51889763666#/group.php?gid=51889763666

[Ice]

I've started a facebook group, since no one else seems to have yet.

Url: http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?gid=51889763666#/group.php?gid=51889763666

I just joined

[Ice]

Her photos on that OP website show her dressed mostly in black, and the news report says she was dressed in black when last seen, so I'm looking at emo, goth, punk, etc places.

She's 5'3/140 pounds (she is quite heavy) and was wearing lots of black. I'd venture to guess it's goth.



Maybe she has a secret online life her folks don't know about.


Shes only 14, but in this day and age, maybe.


In searching, I'm amazed at the amount of 13-18 year old girls who list their orientation as: "Bi". Huh?


Yes, I've seen a lot of this too. It seems to be the new trend.

[Cute Wolf]

let's pray she's soon be found alive and healthy...


I have nothing I can do here except pray..... Indonesia is too far away

[Beefy187]

Joined.

May she be safe.

[KukriKhan]

Fine job, Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla. I'm in, and passing it around.

This morning's news reports still have her missing, but have a few more details:

She grew 2 inches; she's now reported as 5'5. She was carrying a check for $200 for an agri-club she belonged to. Her bio Mom and Dad are divorced; she lives with Mom, Step-Dad and Step-brothers a short walking distance from school; Bio-Dad still in town.

Meanwhile, monitoring the local PD scanner, our cops are scouring the urban area south of the school, knocking on doors with flyers in English & Spanish. I'm gonna check out the online presense of Esco Hi School's clubs, their msg boards, etc.

[Fragony]

Not going to tell the american police how to do their job, but it's a breeze to pinpoint cell-phone conversations, if she has run away she must have made at least a few calls.

[Ibrahim]

@kukri: is there any possible reason that she might have run away from hjer house? perhaps that might give a clue as to whereabouts. also, the 200$ check has me worried there.

[Fragony]

is there any possible reason that she might have run away from her house?

I would rate that to be very very likely and that she will be back in a few days.

[KukriKhan]

@kukri: is there any possible reason that she might have run away from hjer house? perhaps that might give a clue as to whereabouts. also, the 200$ check has me worried there.

That's why I've been peeking into social networking sites she may have visited or joined. Her parents say her 'running away' would be "out of character" for her. We all know 14 year olds sometimes lead, or role-play, entirely different lives online - or talk to online friends about topics they wouldn't dream of sharing with their parents. To them, she's a little girl; happy, well-adjusted.

To herself, (maybe) she's the product of a broken home, forced to join corney farmer's clubs, with finally enough "escape money" to get out of her angst-ridden house. Maybe she talked to someone about that. BTW, the "check" is vague. One report said she had a check, another just said she'd saved up $200 on her own, and took it to school that day.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm glad people approve of my actions, obviously I can't do anything from here, but something like that on facebook should be self perpetuating.

Which is good, because facebook keeps crashing on me.

[Visitor13]

Once again, thank you all for your kindness.

I have been told by a member of her family that she doesn't have a Myspace or Facebook account, and hardly any online presence. Who knows, though. She is more into books and drawing, she also loves animals.

Apart from this, the black clothes are probably just a coincidence, she simply likes to dress in black on occasion.

[KukriKhan]

As of 1930 last night (according to this news item (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/02/18/news/inland/escondido/z0f90ab6bd940365b88257560006e5e37.txt)) the local cops have shifted their search area, based on a tip from a fellow student.

:keeping fingers crossed:

[Ibrahim]

good luck. heart goes out to your family.

[KukriKhan]

Daily update: No progress, but the FBI and Private Detectives have been brought in. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/02/19/news/inland/escondido/zcfe32ff1710ff89288257562006f20aa.txt

[Ibrahim]

this is not good.

again, all thoughts are on the safe return of the missing.:shame:

[KukriKhan]

Daily update #7: candlelight vigil held: http://www.kusi.com/home/40008722.html

I fear foul play now. I'm not psychic, or even a beliver in such 'signs and portents'. But, I travelled the area around Palomar Hospital today (aka: the ghetto), and got a funny feeling near the concrete canal that is now known as Escondido Creek.

It means nothing, I'm certain. I've never had reliable precognition of any sort, so it's bull-hockey, OK? I'm just reporting (here, and to authorities) that I got a tingly, hair-on-the-back-of-the-head wave of feeling in that area when I travelled through it today. Probably those dodgey fries I had for lunch.

[Megas Methuselah]

I'll pray for her.

[Fragony]

Daily update #7: candlelight vigil held: http://www.kusi.com/home/40008722.html

I fear foul play now. I'm not psychic, or even a beliver in such 'signs and portents'. But, I travelled the area around Palomar Hospital today (aka: the ghetto), and got a funny feeling near the concrete canal that is now known as Escondido Creek.

It means nothing, I'm certain. I've never had reliable precognition of any sort, so it's bull-hockey, OK? I'm just reporting (here, and to authorities) that I got a tingly, hair-on-the-back-of-the-head wave of feeling in that area when I travelled through it today. Probably those dodgey fries I had for lunch.

If it was a simple robbery she would have been found by now, these people grab and flee they don't hide their victims. If the FBI is involved that is good news because apparently they have reason to be believe she is in another state and the border ain't that far off, don't get your hopes down.

[Thermal]

Poor family :no: I hope shes ok, it's not looking good :shame: The news said she really didnt fit the profile of a runaway, no trace....unless shes hiding at a friends house but it looks like she was happy. It's more shocking that it was on the way to school, even the day light is no safe place nowadays.

[Vladimir]

Daily update #7: candlelight vigil held: http://www.kusi.com/home/40008722.html

I fear foul play now. I'm not psychic, or even a beliver in such 'signs and portents'. But, I travelled the area around Palomar Hospital today (aka: the ghetto), and got a funny feeling near the concrete canal that is now known as Escondido Creek.

It means nothing, I'm certain. I've never had reliable precognition of any sort, so it's bull-hockey, OK? I'm just reporting (here, and to authorities) that I got a tingly, hair-on-the-back-of-the-head wave of feeling in that area when I travelled through it today. Probably those dodgey fries I had for lunch.

Don't dismiss your instincts. Hope for the best. My thoughts are with the family.

[Thermal]

A more detailed report



It's a question that's on many people's minds, even beyond the California town of Escondido. Since Feb. 13, 2009, Amber Dubois has been missing, and now cops, her family, friends, and community are searching for the missing teen.

Family members say Amber is a strong-willed but bookish girl who loves animals to the extent that, despite being a freshman at Escondido High School, she was looking into college programs specializing in animal sciences.

On Feb. 13, 2009, Amber not only had her books and Valentine's Day gifts for her friends, she also had a $200 check to put a deposit on a lamb that she was going to raise as a part of her school's Future Farmer's Association.

Amber's dad, Maurice Dubois, says the lamb was something that Amber was already cherishing the thought of and she wouldn't have missed turning in the deposit for the world.

But police say somehow, that's what happened. At 6:45 a.m., Amber sent four text messages to her grandmother before heading out the door to school.

The one mile walk from her home was something she did everyday. At around 7:15 a.m., she was seen by two family friends just about 300 yards from the school's front gate.

Hours later, school officials called Amber's home saying she hadn't shown up for class. Her friends hadn't seen her either. By the end of the day, the search for Amber had begun.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The facebook group is now 300 members, and I've made contact with a rather energetic cousen, so that is expanding.

Hope it helps.

[KukriKhan]

Fine bit of coordination Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla. Also, Amber's story will be on America's Most Wanted TV Show, which has a pretty good record of finding missing kids, tonight, Saturday, 28 Feb, 1800 Cali time.

[Thermal]

:no:

[Beefy187]

Havn't had a update on the Facebook for a while..

Any progress?

[KukriKhan]

No news. Flyers are still on every lampost, mailbox and street corner, in English and Spanish, offering a reward. Volunteer search teams still go out weekly. Private Investigator has been hired. Local PD finally got 'round to combing through her phone records and computer; no joy there, they say.

Still, no Amber.

---------------------------

Meanwhile yesterday, two 13-year old boys reported that two male adults tried to abduct them on the way to school. Everything in town stopped, the PD pulled in every cop that wasn't already on duty, and...

the boys lied, trying to get out of going to school, where they were already in trouble for some infraction. Story Link (http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Escondido-kidnapping-attempt-a-hoax/h9qYzRZxZ0up84u6zDXyCA.cspx). A costly hoax.

[KukriKhan]

Sadly, this post becomes an annual update, because the girl is still missing. LINK to latest news story. (http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_17edfcec-657a-5398-8295-4b1ada991f56.html) At this point, most of the non-relatives are hoping that the experts got her behavioral profile wrong, and that she's a voluntary runaway, living in a commune in Northern Ontario, raising horses... or something.

[Hosakawa Tito]

A parent's worst nightmare. I hope she is alive and well, but fear she is not.

[Centurion1]

Thanks for looking. Other search details might be: age 14, school: Escondido High School, Escondido California. Hobbies: horses, music.

I had (moved to temecula now) cousins at Escondido high.......... one remembers her.


Sad sad story.

[Louis VI the Fat]

A parent's worst nightmare. I hope she is alive and well, but fear she is not.I think I could cope with anything, but not with this. I don't know how one could deal with this.


Let's hope Amber will someday return safe and sound to her parents, or that news of whatever fate befell her emerges. What a nightmare.

[KukriKhan]

Her remains were found yesterday. News story: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/07/site-ambers-remains-north-pala-mission/?imw=Y

R.I.P. Amber.

[Fragony]

And suddenly a distant tragedy feels so close, I am shocked to tears. RIP Amber, my condolences to OP and everybody else who knew her.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Her remains were found yesterday. News story: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/07/site-ambers-remains-north-pala-mission/?imw=Y

R.I.P. Amber.

How utterly terrible.

It seems there is more to it, as reports of another child's remains nearby indicate. Let's hope this is cleared up as soon as possible.

My thoughts are with the parents. May Amber rest in peace.

[Secura]

I cannot believe that there are people out there who would do these things to innocent children. My thoughts are with all her family who are going through the loss of their child, sister and friend.

R.I.P, Amber. :3

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'll never get used to it, can never resign myself to this. So much destroyed, so much grief, for one :daisy: and his twenty minutes of depraved 'fun'. May there be no mercy on his soul, neither in this life nor any other.


RIP Amber, and all the others.

[Andres]

Horrible news.

My condolences.

[naut]

Tragic. Condolences to the family and friends.

[Lemur]

Wow. As a parent I feel punched in the gut reading this. Condolences to her family.

[Subotan]

That's just awful.

[InsaneApache]

Dreadful, just dreadful. I can only imagine what the parents are going through. As someone who lost a daughter fifteen years ago I'll say this. You never get over the death of your child, you just get used to the pain. To have your child murdered must be even worse by several magnitudes.

I hope they catch the bastard who did this. If I had my way, piano wire and meathooks spring to mind. An awful business.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

How the criminal proceedings will turn out we have yet to see, but the pain of the family is ver clear.

R.I.P.

[johnhughthom]

I was just re-reading this the other day to see if there was any news. Terrible to hear.

[Thermal]

I don't know what to say other than how devastating this must have been for her parents and people who knew her.

I remember posting here when she first went missing, its a bombshell that she wasn't found alive. At least they can now pay their respects to her now. :bow:

R.I.P

[KukriKhan]

Dreadful, just dreadful. I can only imagine what the parents are going through. As someone who lost a daughter fifteen years ago I'll say this. You never get over the death of your child, you just get used to the pain. To have your child murdered must be even worse by several magnitudes.

I hope they catch the bastard who did this. If I had my way, piano wire and meathooks spring to mind. An awful business.

Our local cops have spilled the beans that the fella currently in custody for another, more recent disappearance-abduction-murder, is also the primary suspect in Amber's case. To not jeopardize their court case, they're not saying where the "tip" on where Ms DuBois' remains might be came from... it's pretty clear to all here locally who the source is. They have to scrupulously protect that info so the guy can get tried in San Diego, not shipped off to Nebraska or Massachusetts or some other State to obtain a "fair trial". Ya gotta wonder how many more disappearances will surface.

Maybe we ought to ship this thread off to the Backroom, since we've gone through the "save Amber" stage, onto the "discovery" stage, and now into the investigation/prosecution stage. Just a thought.

[KukriKhan]

Double-posting:

I want to personally thank all of you for your efforts, thoughts and prayers over the past 13 months. A girl you never met, in a town you've never been to, went missing. Together we scoured the internet to the best of our ability to find some kinda clue that would be useful. Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla started the original "find Amber" Facebook page. I spent a couple of Sunday afternoons trudging through local creeks and lakeshores. We all stayed in contact, and interest.

As the Father of 3 (now adult) daughters, if my girl was missing, I can't think of a better crew to help me find her virtual self. Thanks guys. :bow: yer awesome.

[edyzmedieval]

R.I.P. for the poor girl.

Meathooks and piano strings is not enough for these bastards. Medieval torture methods maybe, but for the pain they inflict even that is not enough.

[Subotan]

Meathooks and piano strings is not enough for these bastards. Medieval torture methods maybe, but for the pain they inflict even that is not enough.

That would make us no better than him.

[Fragony]

And tongs

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Double-posting:

I want to personally thank all of you for your efforts, thoughts and prayers over the past 13 months. A girl you never met, in a town you've never been to, went missing. Together we scoured the internet to the best of our ability to find some kinda clue that would be useful. Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla started the original "find Amber" Facebook page. I spent a couple of Sunday afternoons trudging through local creeks and lakeshores. We all stayed in contact, and interest.

As the Father of 3 (now adult) daughters, if my girl was missing, I can't think of a better crew to help me find her virtual self. Thanks guys. :bow: yer awesome.

Thank you for the mention Kukri, but it was really nothing more than five minutes work to set up, and then some maintainance until an extended family member took over.

[Fragony]

Still the only one of us who dedicated those 5 minutes, hope it means something to the family that someone from the other side of the ocean cared to do so. It would to me.

[Major Robert Dump]

This is tough indeed

[Louis VI the Fat]

Thank you for the mention Kukri, but it was really nothing more than five minutes work to set up, and then some maintainance until an extended family member took over.I so truly respect this. :bow:

[Fragony]

Looks like we have another sad case

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/Fragony/millynew15310_200x150.jpg

Missing for a week, they found something an hour ago, forensics are there which means it's bad. I can get so angry over things like this my chest almost explodes.

edit: gah, she's dead, half burried, the rest was in a whatsitcalled these things on the street that lead to the sewers. They got who did it. If it's another case of a psycholoco who thought his patient was ready be be reintroduced into society I want his head.

Rip Milly Boele.

edit: what the hell the guy's a cop

[edyzmedieval]

That would make us no better than him.

He killed a poor innocent girl who had nothing to do with him. Coin for coin revenge is suitable in this case no matter what you say. :no:

EDIT:

Subotan, I rest my case. Look at Fragony's post.
Another innocent girl killed for what? Because the guy's a lunatic? Public dangers.

[Subotan]

He killed a poor innocent girl who had nothing to do with him. Coin for coin revenge is suitable in this case no matter what you say. :no:
And what if the wrong guy was picked up? Torture itself is a moral abomination, just as these crimes are, and the possibility of doing what you are advocating to an innocent man is far too high for such a severe punishment to be justifiable.

The state and the justice system are meant to punish people like this. How can state justifiably say "What this man did was wrong", if we resort to his own methods to punish him?

I know what I'm saying is unpopular, but I do not care. Populist baying for blood is wrong and akin to lynch mobs, and something that I am just as strongly opposed to as the sick crimes of this individual.

EDIT: Because torture will magically turn the clock back? Torturing him will not make that neighbourhood a safer place.

[Lemur]

To the Backroom, away!

[Fragony]

While tempting torture is a bit much. But proven child-killers need to be put down. I wouldn't call it death penalty.

[Subotan]

The death penalty is flawed for two reasons, the inability to correct mistakes, and moral ickiness of the state taking the life of one of it's own citizens. A life sentence solves both of these.

That said, I'm not a namby-pamby worshipper of the idea of rehabilitation. There are some people who are just too dangerous to ever be released from prison, and the criminal detailed above is almost certainly one of them.

[Kagemusha]

These kind of crimes you dont need death penalty. Just throw the guilty one in jail for rest of his life to think about what he has done and throw the key away.. If at some point its found out that someone else was guilty the first one can be released. Life sentence without possibility of parol is what these sickoes deserve. Ofcourse incase police catches the perpetrator in act of committing this kind of horrible crime, the officer should not think twice to put couple bullets in the perpetrator just to make sure he /she doesnt escape.

[Beskar]

These kind of crimes you dont need death penalty. Just throw the guilty one in jail for rest of his life to think about what he has done and throw the key away.. If at some point its found out that someone else was guilty the first one can be released. Life sentence without possibility of parol is what these sickoes deserve. Ofcourse incase police catches the perpetrator in act of committing this kind of horrible crime, the officer should not think twice to put couple bullets in the perpetrator just to make sure he /she doesnt escape.

I would like to see it if you got arrested now for those crimes even though you are (hopefully) innocent of them. It would soon make you change your opinion on the subject.

[Kagemusha]

I would like to see it if you got arrested now for those crimes even though you are (hopefully) innocent of them. It would soon make you change your opinion on the subject.

If i would be arrested in act of commiitting such crime i would deserve death. My opinion wheather i should live or die would be irrelevant.

[Beskar]

If i would be arrested in act of commiitting such crime i would deserve death. My opinion wheather i should live or die would be irrelevant.

If you was arrested and you just happened to be next to where the crime took place, and therefore you are number 1 suspect, but you are actually innocent and know nothing of the crime, but simply "wrong place at the wrong time" and when up being arrested and charged for it.

[Kagemusha]

If you was arrested and you just happened to be next to where the crime took place, and therefore you are number 1 suspect, but you are actually innocent and know nothing of the crime, but simply "wrong place at the wrong time" and when up being arrested and charged for it.

Dont start twisting my words. My words were caught in the act.

[Beskar]

Dont start twisting my words. My words were caught in the act.

That was the 2nd part of your post, I was replying to the first part about locking them up and throwing away the key, etc.

[Kagemusha]

Well i already explained that in my original post. Ofcourse courts decesion is needed for them to be sentenced..While they maintain alive in jail if any new evidence springs up, their case can be reconsidered in court of law. What is your problem exactly with harsh penalties over such heinious crimes?

[johnhughthom]

If i would be arrested in act of commiitting such crime i would deserve death. My opinion wheather i should live or die would be irrelevant.

Fair enough then, you could commit suicide. If you wish to decide that you deserve death that's up to you, personally I don't think anybody, or group of people, has the right to say anybody else deserves to die, no matter what they have done.

[Kagemusha]

Fair enough then, you could commit suicide. If you wish to decide that you deserve death that's up to you, personally I don't think anybody, or group of people, has the right to say anybody else deserves to die, no matter what they have done.

That is completely matter of point of view. By that logic you should also reject killing in war and for example death sentences given out by court marshalls in times of war. It is a nice ideal that no man or group of men should not take lives of others, but thats all what it is. Ideal.

[Fragony]

The death penalty is flawed for two reasons, the inability to correct mistakes, and moral ickiness of the state taking the life of one of it's own citizens. A life sentence solves both of these.


It's true that a mistake would be irreversable, but when guilt is beyond reasonable doubt, confession, forensic evidence, I really see no reason to keep them alive.

[johnhughthom]

That is completely matter of point of view. By that logic you should also reject killing in war and for example death sentences given out by court marshalls in times of war. It is a nice ideal that no man or group of men should not take lives of others, but thats all what it is. Ideal.

When you join the military you know what you are siging up for, and killing in war is totally different. The other side is trying to kill you too...

[Kagemusha]

When you join the military you know what you are siging up for, and killing in war is totally different. The other side is trying to kill you too...

You forget that most countries still today have mandatory military service, which means you dont get to choose. If you are citizen you are egliglible for military service. Now you can serve time in prison to evade service during peace time, but that doesnt apply to wartime, when you will be shot for desertion if you dont follow orders given to you.

In the end human societies are based on violence of majority which is given to them by constitutions of our Nations. Ultimately if you dont follow the rules of society, thus rebel against the government which draws its power from constitution you are eglible for death sentence in any country.

When i said i would not mind killing off criminals caught in act of most heinious crimes. That was practical advice as the situation can be resolved without benefit of doubt. If there is any doubt, death sentence becomes impractical because innocents will be executed sooner or later.

[Subotan]

It's true that a mistake would be irreversable, but when guilt is beyond reasonable doubt, confession, forensic evidence, I really see no reason to keep them alive.

The death penalty has always been assumed to be like that. And yet there are many instances, such as poor Timothy Evans, where all the evidence at first appears to point towards an innocent man for a crime deserving the death penalty. You can never be 100% sure that someone is guilty, which is why the death penalty is unjustifiable.

[Beskar]

Also, punishment isn't that good of a deterrent. Anyone who commits a crime goes in thinking they will not get caught anyway.

[Fragony]

Also, punishment isn't that good of a deterrent. Anyone who commits a crime goes in thinking they will not get caught anyway.

That is true, it's of no use for discouraging criminals especially child-killers. But there is also the element of retribution. They deserve to die.

[Shaka_Khan]

I didn't realize this thread started last year. I was blown away at the sudden tragedy.

The news has been airing things like this for a long time. It's about time that we figure out a way to prevent this from happening again. Right now, I can think of giving every kid a whistle or a mace. Make people be aware of any suspicious activities, such as a stranger waiting on the road or following someone for too long. I know these things don't happen often, but it takes just one tragedy to ruin it all so people must watch out at all times. Do schools educate children to watch out for strangers like they did before?

[Beskar]

I didn't realize this thread started last year. I was blown away at the sudden tragedy.

The news has been airing things like this for a long time. It's about time that we figure out a way to prevent this from happening again. Right now, I can think of giving every kid a whistle or a mace. Make people be aware of any suspicious activities, such as a stranger waiting on the road or following someone for too long. I know these things don't happen often, but it takes just one tragedy to ruin it all so people must watch out at all times. Do schools educate children to watch out for strangers like they did before?

Over here, you cannot even go near a child that is yours without "paedophile" alarms ringing around everywhere. So if you ever come here, do not even go near a child, get a bargepole and push them out of the way.

Let's say hypothetical example, you are walking down the street and you see Lemur with little-Lemur, and you say hello, and you sort of bend over and wave at little-Lemur. Before you know it, Lemur is grabbing his child away from you, police appear out of no where, handcuff you, and stick you in the partyvan and you end up on a sex offenders register and branded "Paedophile" from the press. This is the culture/environment/impression given off by the media and peoples overzealous 'protection'.

[Myrddraal]

R.I.P

It's not much, but her website invites visitors to light a virtual candle. Perhaps this would be a good way for .org members who are isolated from the family and the area to pass on their condolences. You can do so here:
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Amber

[KukriKhan]

LA Times reports (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gardner-plea17-2010apr17,0,2308767.story) that the guy arrested for another rape-murder also confessed to killing Amber. He'll do life without parole.


With his head bowed, Gardner admitted Friday to Superior Court Judge David Danielsen that he strangled Chelsea and stabbed Amber. He also admitted to attacking a female jogger Dec. 27 in a rape attempt at Rancho Bernardo Community Park. The victim managed to escape Gardner's grasp.

[InsaneApache]

Something for the family. Not much but something.

[edyzmedieval]

The death penalty is flawed for two reasons, the inability to correct mistakes, and moral ickiness of the state taking the life of one of it's own citizens. A life sentence solves both of these.

That said, I'm not a namby-pamby worshipper of the idea of rehabilitation. There are some people who are just too dangerous to ever be released from prison, and the criminal detailed above is almost certainly one of them.

There's no way someone like Amber's murderer will ever rehabilitate. It's just impossible. He killed two girls and tried to rape one who fortunately escaped.
Neither does a life sentence do anything. For some people prison is luxury.

[Myrddraal]

There's no way someone like Amber's murderer will ever rehabilitate. It's just impossible. He killed two girls and tried to rape one who fortunately escaped.
Neither does a life sentence do anything. For some people prison is luxury.

Life sentences keep them off the streets. What do you achieve by killing more people?

[KukriKhan]

Life sentences keep them off the streets. What do you achieve by killing more people?

About $120,000 (2.5 times my household gross income, before taxes) saved in prison maintenance costs per year, per perpetrator. Gardner is a 31yo white male, who already has cost society over 2 million dollars cleaning up after him, with a life expectancy of about 60 more years. 60 x 120K = 7 million, 200 thousand USD not spent warehousing an unrepentant, unremorseful, unrehabilitate-able human.

I share Subotan's "...moral ickiness of the state taking the life of one of it's own citizens...", but, if serial, chronic paedo's are truly un-fixable (which up until this moment I would have disagreed with in principle, but bowing to the words of penal, psychiatric, psychologic, and statistical experts) : I'm willing to squint my eyes, hold my nose, and pull the trigger.

[Subotan]

There's no way someone like Amber's murderer will ever rehabilitate. It's just impossible. He killed two girls and tried to rape one who fortunately escaped
I'm not saying that this guy can be rehabilitated. I highly doubt that he can, and by all means, he should be locked away until the end of his days. That is effectively a death penalty, but with the added bonus of it being A. Correctable (Even though he confessed, it is still possible that we have the wrong guy, See: Timothy Evans), and B. Morally Justifiable.


Neither does a life sentence do anything. For some people prison is luxury.
Such an ignorant statement can only come from someone who has absolutely no understanding of what prison is like. The justice system grinds you up and spits you out a shell of a man, regardless of whether you're guilty or not.


About $120,000 (2.5 times my household gross income, before taxes) saved in prison maintenance costs per year, per perpetrator. Gardner is a 31yo white male, who already has cost society over 2 million dollars cleaning up after him, with a life expectancy of about 60 more years. 60 x 120K = 7 million, 200 thousand USD not spent warehousing an unrepentant, unremorseful, unrehabilitate-able human.
I remember reading somewhere that it's often just as, and sometimes more expensive, to execute someone, as you have to go through a tortuously long legal process, whilst the culprit languishes on death row. It certainly doesn't save a huge amount of money.


I share Subotan's "...moral ickiness of the state taking the life of one of it's own citizens...", but, if serial, chronic paedo's are truly un-fixable (which up until this moment I would have disagreed with in principle, but bowing to the words of penal, psychiatric, psychologic, and statistical experts) : I'm willing to squint my eyes, hold my nose, and pull the trigger.
I still think it's wrong. It brings the state, and by definition the nation down to the same level as this monster.