Davout
10-14-2002, 10:48
Maintenance costs change all unit balances in SP. Maintenance cost is more important than purchase cost. 10 years is a decent average lifetime for a unit – if you are as aggressive as most MTW players! Over this time period for most units you will spend twice as much on maintenance as on purchase.
Peasants are an extreme example – they cost 50 to build, but have a maintenance cost of 38 per year. After only 1.3 years, maintenance costs exceed build costs! So if you know you won’t need them next year, you are better off disbanding them and rebuilding.
Over a 10 year period, arquebusiers, crossbows, gallowglasses, clansmen, kerns, pavise crossbows and urban militia are as cheap or cheaper than peasants.
General lessons from looking at maintenance rather than purchase cost:
Advanced units become relatively much cheaper
Maintenance costs for high and low tech units tend to be similar. For example, Chivalric Knight purchase cost is 7 times steppe cavalry [875/125]. 10 year cost is only 3 times [1725/525]
Missile units become cheaper
Arbalesters and crossbows look better value.
Artillery becomes much cheaper
Artillery has very low maintenance. A catapult costs roughly the same as jinettes to purchase. After 10 years, the catapult costs half the jinettes.
Feudal units are expensive
Over 10 years, Feudal Knights are as expensive as Gothic Knights. Feudal Sergeants are as expensive as Chivalric Sergeants.
I5 different kinds of troops:
Keepers
Never disband these units; invest in upgrading armor and weapons; expose them to easy combat to boost valour
Examples: all artillery; all ships; high tech knights (crusade, chivalric, gothic, teutonic, high/late royal, lancers) arbalesters, SAP, foot knights, janissary hvy inf, turcoman foot, nizari
Mainstay
These units are the mainstay of your frontier forces; invest in upgrading armor and weapons
Examples: archers; mtd crossbow, chivalric MAA, crossbows, gothic sgts, halberdiers, order foot, horse archers, varangian guard, kwarazmium cav, desert archers, futuwwa, janissary inf/archers, ottoman inf, berber camels, AUM, billmen, longbows, jinettes, gendarmes, Italian light inf, boyars
Garrison units
Use these units as the mainstays of your garrisons; they keep regions loyal at minimum cost. Don’t worry about their maintenance – you will always need a solid core of these units
Examples: arbalests, arquebusiers; crossbows; gallowglasses; highlanders; militia sgts; spearmen; swiss pikemen; urban militia; chivalric sgts, ghazi inf, saracen inf, nubian spearmen
Disposable
Keep these units for a specific purpose – to balance an army, launch an invasion. Keep them in action, replace with garrison units in safe areas. Use them aggressively in combat
Examples: feudal MAA, pikemen , feudal knights, mtd sgts, steppe cav, kataphraktoi, pronoiai allagion, byzantine inf, ghulam cav, sipahi cav, muwahid inf, saharan cav, murabitin inf, hobilars, vikings
Specific turn purpose
Don’t build them in the first place without a very good reason, disband them the moment you no longer need them, or send them on suicide runs in combat
Examples: most mercenaries; peasants, fanatics, feudal sgts, spearmen
Adding fuel to an already raging fire, the maintenance cost adds great balance to the SP game. However, you cannot use the same purchase cost system for MP – buying valour, and upgrades with zero maintenance required creates imbalance. I would like to see the solution for MP recommended by others in this forum from Ancient Miniatures – put limits on each troop type by faction and era, so that a historical, balanced army must be created, leaving victory to combined arms skill and tactics. An early Turkish army could be:
0-4 Spearmen
1-3 Ottoman Infantry
1-4 Saracen infantry
0-4 Ghazi Inf
0-2 Archers
2-4 Desert Archers
1-3 Armenian Heavy Cavalry
0-3 Ghulam Cavalry
1 Ghulam Bodyguards (General)
0-1 Khwarazmium Cavalry
0-2 Ottoman Sipahi
2-4 Horse Archers
0-2 Turcoman Horse
0-3 Bedouin Camels
So, you have to pick a historical core – (in the examples above, 1 Ottoman, 1 Saracen, 2 Desert Archers, 1 Armenian, 1 Ghulam, 2 Horse archers). You then flex the rest depending on your style, terrain and your opponents faction. and terrain. The other 8 could be all heavy cavalry or all spear armed.
Peasants are an extreme example – they cost 50 to build, but have a maintenance cost of 38 per year. After only 1.3 years, maintenance costs exceed build costs! So if you know you won’t need them next year, you are better off disbanding them and rebuilding.
Over a 10 year period, arquebusiers, crossbows, gallowglasses, clansmen, kerns, pavise crossbows and urban militia are as cheap or cheaper than peasants.
General lessons from looking at maintenance rather than purchase cost:
Advanced units become relatively much cheaper
Maintenance costs for high and low tech units tend to be similar. For example, Chivalric Knight purchase cost is 7 times steppe cavalry [875/125]. 10 year cost is only 3 times [1725/525]
Missile units become cheaper
Arbalesters and crossbows look better value.
Artillery becomes much cheaper
Artillery has very low maintenance. A catapult costs roughly the same as jinettes to purchase. After 10 years, the catapult costs half the jinettes.
Feudal units are expensive
Over 10 years, Feudal Knights are as expensive as Gothic Knights. Feudal Sergeants are as expensive as Chivalric Sergeants.
I5 different kinds of troops:
Keepers
Never disband these units; invest in upgrading armor and weapons; expose them to easy combat to boost valour
Examples: all artillery; all ships; high tech knights (crusade, chivalric, gothic, teutonic, high/late royal, lancers) arbalesters, SAP, foot knights, janissary hvy inf, turcoman foot, nizari
Mainstay
These units are the mainstay of your frontier forces; invest in upgrading armor and weapons
Examples: archers; mtd crossbow, chivalric MAA, crossbows, gothic sgts, halberdiers, order foot, horse archers, varangian guard, kwarazmium cav, desert archers, futuwwa, janissary inf/archers, ottoman inf, berber camels, AUM, billmen, longbows, jinettes, gendarmes, Italian light inf, boyars
Garrison units
Use these units as the mainstays of your garrisons; they keep regions loyal at minimum cost. Don’t worry about their maintenance – you will always need a solid core of these units
Examples: arbalests, arquebusiers; crossbows; gallowglasses; highlanders; militia sgts; spearmen; swiss pikemen; urban militia; chivalric sgts, ghazi inf, saracen inf, nubian spearmen
Disposable
Keep these units for a specific purpose – to balance an army, launch an invasion. Keep them in action, replace with garrison units in safe areas. Use them aggressively in combat
Examples: feudal MAA, pikemen , feudal knights, mtd sgts, steppe cav, kataphraktoi, pronoiai allagion, byzantine inf, ghulam cav, sipahi cav, muwahid inf, saharan cav, murabitin inf, hobilars, vikings
Specific turn purpose
Don’t build them in the first place without a very good reason, disband them the moment you no longer need them, or send them on suicide runs in combat
Examples: most mercenaries; peasants, fanatics, feudal sgts, spearmen
Adding fuel to an already raging fire, the maintenance cost adds great balance to the SP game. However, you cannot use the same purchase cost system for MP – buying valour, and upgrades with zero maintenance required creates imbalance. I would like to see the solution for MP recommended by others in this forum from Ancient Miniatures – put limits on each troop type by faction and era, so that a historical, balanced army must be created, leaving victory to combined arms skill and tactics. An early Turkish army could be:
0-4 Spearmen
1-3 Ottoman Infantry
1-4 Saracen infantry
0-4 Ghazi Inf
0-2 Archers
2-4 Desert Archers
1-3 Armenian Heavy Cavalry
0-3 Ghulam Cavalry
1 Ghulam Bodyguards (General)
0-1 Khwarazmium Cavalry
0-2 Ottoman Sipahi
2-4 Horse Archers
0-2 Turcoman Horse
0-3 Bedouin Camels
So, you have to pick a historical core – (in the examples above, 1 Ottoman, 1 Saracen, 2 Desert Archers, 1 Armenian, 1 Ghulam, 2 Horse archers). You then flex the rest depending on your style, terrain and your opponents faction. and terrain. The other 8 could be all heavy cavalry or all spear armed.