Grenadiers... Grenades?

[Megas Methuselah]

I remember hearing everyone talking about how they detested the possibility of grenadiers wielding grenades. Well, guess what? They have grenades. Despite that, though, muskets are still the primary weapon of the grenadiers.

So, I'm just gonna start up a poll again, and want everyone's opinion. Did CA overkill the stereotypical grenadiers with their grenades? Should they be able to wield any grenades at all? Or do you think it was good the way it was? Or maybe you just don't care? Gah?

Vote, Orgahs, vote!

[A Very Super Market]

Gah, so many polls that I can't vote in because I haven't played the farking demo yet!

[Megas Methuselah]

It's fun. As soon as this advil gets rid of this headache, I'm going right back into the grinder.

[quadalpha]

Oh, I forgot to use the grenades! How effective are they?

[Megas Methuselah]

They're not OP'd, but Lord, they are FUN!!!!

EDIT: Grapeshot is awesome, too! And very effective!

[A Very Super Market]

I am now 20% away from enjoying these grenades. If you're lying, I will make it my mission to DESTORY any prairie I ever come across.

[Sheogorath]

The big white lines flying all over my screen annoy me more than the grenades :blankg:

Besides, in the early portion of the game, grenades WOULD be accurate. Ish. Kind of. Maybe.

But yeah, they are fun :P

[Megas Methuselah]

You told me yourself that Grenadiers didn't use grenades anymore, you liar! :smile:


If you're lying, I will make it my mission to DESTORY any prairie I ever come across.

Oh, you are so British Columbian... :laugh4:

[A Very Super Market]

Yes... yes I am...

Also, I'm Asian, and therefore hungry for power. Do not mess with me...

[Megas Methuselah]

I don't know about that, but I certainly won't let you drive a car with me inside of it. :clown:

[A Very Super Market]

I'm surprised you prairie folk know what a car is :clown:

Anyways, humourous Canadian in-jokes aside, what exactly makes the grenades so fun?

[Megas Methuselah]

The animation. It looks so cool. The Grenadiers hurl a grenades in an upward slope which fall into the enemy ranks. Then a couple seconds later... BOOM!!! It looks so cool!

[Sheogorath]

The animation. It looks so cool. The Grenadiers hurl a grenades in an upward slope which fall into the enemy ranks. Then a couple seconds later... BOOM!!! It looks so cool!

I think it'd be nicer if there was a chance for a grenade to explode too early, blowing a nice chunk out of your formation. It'd add a nice element of random danger to your grenadiers lives, which would make up for late-game anachronisms with a bit of reality :P

[Megas Methuselah]

Wouldn't even be close to stopping me from using them. :evilgrin:

[cannon_fodder]

They work well, causing casualties faster than muskets at close range, but not insanely fast; even 2 volleys of grenades will not cause the destruction or retreat of a unit. And they do look cool in action.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The only experience with them was thusly...

I was trading fire with the Yankees in line, but flanked them on the right (their left) by the town hall. Put grenadiers into the little wooded hill, right next to some already engaged rebel line. Got them real close, the AI probably should've been thinking about doing something, and bam, grenades. They lost at least a dozen in one shot, broke right after I sent them in charging to finish the job. I'd have to play around more to decide if they're overpowered - for instance, I don't know their actual range.

[Megas Methuselah]

Their range is very short. Those Yanks were probably already shaken or something.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Yeah, I don't remember the specifics. For starters, they were probably off put by those angry, burly men standing next to them while juggling ordinance. :laugh4:

[Polemists]

Well I voted because I like polls :)

That said I was against the grenades because I feared they would be A. Poorly animated B. Overpowered.

From sounds of things they look neat, and arn't a instant break weapon, so that's fine. The short range means you have to get your Grenadiers close, so that should elimnate them from being a use everytime tactic.

[Sir Beane]

I completely forgot that they had grenades, and just used them as tough line infantry. Guess I'll have to play the battle again just to see them. :2thumbsup::laugh4:

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I used them to attack the town hall which was also under fire of my baby artillery (you know those horse things). They assaulted with their grenades and soon after that the building was on fire. I don't know if that was the result of the grenades but it looked funny.

[PanzerJaeger]

I used them on 4 different American units and routed them all.

Overpowered. :no:

This could be a big deal in mp, among other things....

[ArtillerySmoke]

I used them on 4 different American units and routed them all.

Overpowered. :no:

This could be a big deal in mp, among other things....

I hope we're not looking at "all grenadier armies" just spamming grenades all over the place.

[Polemists]

arn't they short ranged though?

I mean couldn't a group of rifle/musket men just gun them down? or calvary run them down?

[Abokasee]

Grenades are accurate for this time period, sure they were big heavy steel balls with string fuse bu they were grenades, but the troops using them had to be very large people (Hence the Potsdam Grenadiers)

[TB666]

Grenades are accurate for this time period, sure they were big heavy steel balls with string fuse bu they were grenades, but the troops using them had to be very large people (Hence the Potsdam Grenadiers)
Indeed.

So far I haven't actually used them.
Using the simple musket fire and cavalry charge to the flank is a too much of a effective method for me to bother bring up the grenadiers close enough to throw their grenades.
I suppose they would be very useful during seiges however.

[Polemists]

Yes I guess that is another point of view, you don't have to use the gernades if you don't want to. Of course when you fight against enemies with gernades in mp and sp campaign you may want to.

[Sir Beane]

I just played a battle in which I used Grenadiers. They are extremely fun, and not overpowered at all. A grenade barrage does about as much damage as a decent musket volley, perhaps a little more. They're just a fun addition that adds variety. :2thumbsup:

[Megas Methuselah]

I used them on 4 different American units and routed them all.

Overpowered. :no:

This could be a big deal in mp, among other things....

How did you use them? Flanking? There are much more efficient ways to flank a unit than with grenades.

For my part, I just bayonet-charged my unit of guards with the grenadiers trailing behind tossing grenades into the melee. I could've just flanked the enemy with cavalry, but grenades are more fun.

[Sol Invictus]

I would prefer that the Grenades had been left out but it is a small issue for me. I will only use them when assaulting buildings or earthworks.

[Belgolas]

I liked them and they were not over powered.

[Sheogorath]

Actually, you know, all things considered, it's really not a big deal.

I bet a few weeks after release there'll be a 'no grenades' mod. It's just a matter of removing the weapon, isn't it? Same deal as pikemen and swords in MTW2, right?

[miniwally]

My grenadiers got all shot u before they threw any grenades they got a couple of shots in though. (I may have been the ones who shot them though :P

[Megas Methuselah]

Actually, you know, all things considered, it's really not a big deal.

I bet a few weeks after release there'll be a 'no grenades' mod. It's just a matter of removing the weapon, isn't it? Same deal as pikemen and swords in MTW2, right?

Although I'm all for grenades, a question that would be posed by anti-grenade players is: what about MP?

IMHO, ETW is probably going to be one of few total war games worth playing on MP. I'm excited.

[TB666]

Although I'm all for grenades, a question that would be posed by anti-grenade players is: what about MP?

IMHO, ETW is probably going to be one of few total war games worth playing on MP. I'm excited.
Grenades shouldn't be a problem in MP.
As mentioned before, they got a short range and the unit itself isn't that big so a well-timed volley should destroy them before they have time to throw.

[Sir Beane]

Although I'm all for grenades, a question that would be posed by anti-grenade players is: what about MP?

IMHO, ETW is probably going to be one of few total war games worth playing on MP. I'm excited.

I think that in MP most players will be more than smart enough to stop Grenadiers getting up close and personal. :2thumbsup: It will just be another tactical challenge.

Given their small unit size and the short range I doubt they will be a favoured MP unit anyway. Empire is all about the ranged warfare, so grenades are not that handy really. :laugh4:

[hoom]

So what kind of ammo count do Grenadiers have?
Like 2 each or 30?

My very limited research on the topic seems to indicate Grenadiers were still using grenades probably for the first decade or two of the game, with use going out of fashion due to better musketry but I can't seem to find reference about whether they actually stopped being equipped with grenades or if they just weren't trying to use them?
I can imagine them striding out on the field with a couple of grenades ready (on a belt or in a satchell?) but never actually using them.

[Sir Beane]

So what kind of ammo count do Grenadiers have?
Like 2 each or 30?

My very limited research on the topic seems to indicate Grenadiers were still using grenades probably for the first decade or two of the game, with use going out of fashion due to better musketry but I can't seem to find reference about whether they actually stopped being equipped with grenades or if they just weren't trying to use them?
I can imagine them striding out on the field with a couple of grenades ready (on a belt or in a satchell?) but never actually using them.

They keep them in a satchel in game, I have no idea how many they have. They got off one round on my game before being shot to bits by Long Rifle Men.

They did indeed go out of fashion, and when you play the game you can see why.

[Megas Methuselah]

I dunno, Hoom. I never got the opportunity to actually overkill grenades as the range is very, very short, and the grenadiers essentially become sitting ducks. Ammo count wouldn't matter much, IMHO.

EDIT: Lol, stop beating my posts, Beane. :clown:

[Flavius Silvanus]

I think I would rather see them lose the grenades, but get more men in the unit.

[Mr Frost]

Well , all this answers a question I was going to ask when the demo came out {ie: about now :)} which was "do grenadiers have grenades , muskets and bayonets , which is 2 say : can soldiers now have more than just 2 weapons ?" .

Unless I have missread , they indeed have 3 weapons {the mentioned grenades , muskets and bayonets} which should mean 3 different weapons entries in their export_descr_units.txt {or whatever the applicable file will be called if different} which opens up all soets of interesting possibilities such as E.B.s Leuce Epos having javlins , lance and longsword , Thorakitai having javlins , spear and kopis , certain Kataphract units with bow , lance and mace/sword .

I'll be intrigued to see if even more than 2 are possible and if it is feasable to implement it . Interesting .

[Daevyll]

Considering the weight of grenades in that era, I doubt they'd have very many.
I consider the grenadiers to be an elite unit to stiffen the ranks, that is a bit better at assault situations and has a higher morale. The fact that they have an extra 'twist' in that they can throw grenades is a nicety, which is highly situational; I expect them to not use this ability in most battles.

Also, could perhaps be useful in clearing occupied buildings; a bit like throwing in a flash-bang before forced entry ;)

[pevergreen]

I think they could be used as a humiliation unit.

"Oh I just destroyed your army. To truly show you how scared I am, I shall walk my grenadiers up in front of your cannons, and throw some grenades into your cannons."

I did it, and lost 1/2 the unit to canister fire. :laugh4:

[antisocialmunky]

I could see a player mixing them into a line or advancing through forest making the other guy go boom because they can't see the bastards.

[Mr Frost]

I could see a player mixing them into a line or advancing through forest making the other guy go boom because they can't see the bastards.

In real life , grenades shine when they are used on troops whom make the mistake of getting tightly clustered together {or when they are well polished :clown:} so try them at bottlenecks like breaches in walls and bridge crossings if you want to see them cause some havok .

[Krasturak]

Krast not play demo.

Still, cannot avoid tempting poll!

Gah! Grenades! Gah!

[Krasturak]

Krast, being poorly educated in the realm of grenades and not really knowing much history, asks his friend the Wrod Mnaggler to explain it.

Sadly, the Wrod Mnaggler is too busy to talk, but does send a list of pages to read.

Poor Krast!

Krast, like most illiterate desert barbarians from Tarranak, cannot read! At all!

Please help Krast by reading the history pages and then explaining it to Krast:

http://www.royalscotsgrenadiers.com/grenadier.html

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Grenadier

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenadier

[Megas Methuselah]

You're a senior member? Gah!

[Ibrahim]

Historically by the 1770's there weren't supposed to be grenades in widespread use (the grenade was almost out of use by 1750). In fact, grenade use had been declining since c.1715.

that said, I like the game, historical inaccuracies and all. and grenades can be a tactical advantage.

[Thermal]

The grenades did massive damage for me if you threw them at the right angle, not to mention obliterate morale :grin: I finally won my land battle too.

[ratbarf]

Personally I think they will work best as second rank reserves more than anything else. Though a devastating one at that. When I used them I had been charged by a unit of line and a unit of Minutemen against a Hussein company with the Grenadiers supporting from behind. Because the hessiens were not english I didn't really care howmany died so I decided this was a perfect moment to try out the grenades. Low and behold, when the grenades where the thrown they landed in back rank of the first engaged unit and killed a good dozen of them. I didn't lose any to my own blasts. I think that at least two units of Grenadiers throwing grenades from behind the main line will become a standard tactic.


Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah
The animation. It looks so cool. The Grenadiers hurl a grenades in an upward slope which fall into the enemy ranks. Then a couple seconds later... BOOM!!! It looks so cool!

Originaly Posted by Sheogorath
I think it'd be nicer if there was a chance for a grenade to explode too early, blowing a nice chunk out of your formation. It'd add a nice element of random danger to your grenadiers lives, which would make up for late-game anachronisms with a bit of reality :P

Shudders... does anyone else remember the thunder bombers from Mongol Invasion? If you do you would realise that the above, while indeed hilariously fun, gives me nightmares...

[antisocialmunky]

Yes. I remember them. Its worse if you can't kill grenaders from standoff but at this point of history, you can.

[Megas Methuselah]

I found out they have a limited amount of grenades. I wasn't counting, though.

[therifleman]

I find the grenades quite fitting for the role Grenadiers are supposed to play; and that is as a hard hitting assault unit. I often had them chuck their grenades into an enemy unit then immedietly bayonet charge that enemy unit. It can do a good job of punching a hole through the battle line.

I don't think grenades are overpowered either. When thrown they can shake a unit up and kill a few guys but it's not like it sends the entire unit into a hectic retreat.

[Polemists]

Have to agree with above poster, I threw 3 times into a melee unit engaged with my own units, and the american unit did not run.

It causes fear not unlike gunpowder weapons of mtw2, but it's not instant fear, you still have to mop units up.

If a anything I think's more amusing visually then anything else.