New Desktop Advice

[NagatsukaShumi]

As I have discovered, ym current rig is inadequate for gaming these days and as a result I am looking to purchase another with the money I saved whilst ill last year and wanted some of your opinions.

I am looking at the following three atm...

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0212931708.1235321891@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccfdadegidfdfjdcflgceggdhhmdgmh.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=600570&category_oid=-35614

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0212931708.1235321891@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccfdadegidfdfjdcflgceggdhhmdgmh.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=138253&category_oid=-35614#productInformationSection

http://www.cube247.co.uk/?customise=11

Could you give me any thoughts? The bonus with the ACER is that your warranty isn't voided should you put in upgrades as their parts all have codes on, so they can still deduce if it is their parts at fault etc.

The top one is the one I can go in an buy whenever, the other two would be mail ordered though obviously I want it to play ETW having got some time off work!

Any other suggestions are incredibly appreciated!

[Lemur]

The first two PCs had me kinda puzzled. For that kind of money, why would you go with two mid-range video cards instead of one good one? I've never understood the use of SLI with mid-range components.

The third one is a more logical build, although a lot of it is overkill. 12 gigs of memory? Really? Are you planning to do industrial 3D rendering or something?

None of these computers look like lean, mean gaming rigs to me.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Its more that I am trying to find something that I won't have to replace entirely after a couple of years, I presumed the more "overkill" it had that longer it'd be until I had to mess about upgrading or getting another PC, considering the prices these days.

[Lemur]

Well, what you do with your money is your business, but I'd recommend buying a nice gaming rig and investing the spare cash into a nice municipal bond with a 2-year yield. That way the bond comes of age right about the time you're wanting a new rig ...

There's no such thing as the computer that doesn't feel old eventually. Especially if you're a gamer. If you plunked down all the money in the world on the best possible 486 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80486) computer in 1989, it still wouldn't be able to play Fallout 3.

Better to nurse your PC along with the occasional incremental upgrade until it's obviously time to start over. And best to have savings set aside for our admittedly expensive hobby, PC gaming.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Currently looking at Cyber Power Systems, mostly because its customisable to a silly degree, tend to be able to build up rigs for around 1500 with big graphics cards (single) and memory where required.

When I said last, I meant more along the lines of last in the sense that come 3 years time, I won't have to buy a new one just to play a game on low (Which is the case with ETW, I can't even run it remotely smoothly on low and everything turned down or off, yet my PC runs MTWII) and tbf the most graphically demanding games I ever buy are TW games, so in reality all I want it to do is last the next two TW titles (including ETW, so essentially ETW plus whatever TW).

I think the reason I am concerned is because this time it is me buying it, the other times it hasn't been me doing so, so I am being rather cautious and finally learning a bit about what goes in them, I can mod games and such forth but when it comes to whats inside the machine to do all that on I am mostly clueless.

http://www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk/system/Gamer_Infinity_i7_Heaven/

That is the base system I am looking at with some minor tweaks (Overclocking S&S, with required cooling equipment for that, maybe the top of the range ATI card and a bit more memory).

EDIT - The case of money is that I have alot of it due to being ill last year, so it just built up hence why I am looking to just buy a new one atm. Although your suggestion to save cash over a long time etc up is a good one

[Lemur]

That looks like a more reasonable rig. My suggestions: Change the case to either the Antec P182 or the Lian Li PC-A10. Those are both rocking cases, sturdy and quiet, and not tarted up into geek ghetto fabulous (as so many gaming cases are).

The Thermalight or the Coolermaster CPU coolers should give you good service for air-cooling. Don't forget to blast your coolers with some compressed air every six months or so.

The 4850x2 is a fantastic video card for the money. I'd say it sits on the high end of the price/performance sweet spot. An excellent choice. I would not consider moving to any higher-end card. You start paying hundreds of dollars for incremental improvement; better to wait for a newer card in a couple years' time.

Depending on how many educational films (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography) you collect, or how many games you like to have installed simultaneously, you may find a single 500 gig drive to be a bit tight. I would consider stepping up to a 1 terabyte model, or adding another drive. Remember, the average game now takes up 4–6 gigs of HD space. I have a partition on one drive that has three games and my non-Microsoft apps installed (for some reason Office gets cranky if it's not on c:). Total size? 110 gigs! The mind boggles. Nobody is trying to code smaller these days. Give yourself elbow room.

I would not buy a BluRay drive for any reason whatsoever. Well, maybe if you're a complete film buff and you just have to see Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_(2008_film)) in all of its glory. But otherwise, no. And with multi-core computers and outstanding onboard sound, I don't see any reason for discrete sound cards anymore.

These is my thoughts.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Blu-Ray is a big no no really as I already own a PS3 should I want any of those DVDs, although tbh I don't own any and don't really intend to, unless of course HD or Blu Ray becomes like what DVD was to VHS, either way I have a 360 as well so can play either anyway.

Your right, the 500GB is probably too small, for TW I normally have a few mods installed, then for Football Manager I have a shedload of graphics (logos, kits etc) and then theres the other games I own so you're right, I could do with the 1TB, the upgrade to that is a reasonable price though tbf. Although my educational material is stored on my latop :laugh4:.

For the graphics card it'd either be the 4850 or the 4870 (the 2GB one), would there be much difference between those or did you mean the ones which upgrade it by maybe 256/516MB at most?

The thing with RAM is that 6GB would no doubt be enough and really, I only use high RAM for FM as it allows me to run far more leagues and load more players to stop countries dominating purely cos they got to be loaded. A staff member already said there is room to upgrade it to 12GB at a later date and RAM, tbh, costs very little in the "specs" world from browsing around in shops like PC World, you can double my current Rigs for about 30-40 pounds. Would it be worth upgrading to the 6GB 1600MHz for a couple of pounds extra?

I think last night I did CoolerMaster and Astek Liquid Cooling for cooling and I presumed I was better of with going with S&S Overclocking, rather than going silly, I doubt I need huge over clocking anyway.

Cases was the main confusion point, so thanks for those suggestions. I wanted ones that looked smart, but not over the top. Although I admit playing with those ACERs in PC World was fun, but not £1400 fun :laugh4:.

I think around £1500 without a Monitor is my sorta of ideal price, my mother is buying this one off me for £600 pounds anyway (it is fine for her needs, more than adequate infact) so that is reasonable, I do have enough to buy it without her financial input but would like to be in a position where buying a PC doesn't mean I am without a life until pay day :2thumbsup:.

Cheers for your advice thus far Lemur, it has been very useful and impartial, of course PC Shop staff want you to buy theirs so their opinions can be a little biased.

Small point, OS. When Windows 7 comes out is that something to look into? I have only heard horror stories about Vista and whilst my Laptop runs fine with it, I only play FM on it and write my novel etc, nothing demanding.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'll just pop in to agree with Lemur's point about not needing a sound card. I don't have one and my comp runs sound just fine.

CR

[Lemur]

For the graphics card it'd either be the 4850 or the 4870 (the 2GB one), would there be much difference between those or did you mean the ones which upgrade it by maybe 256/516MB at most?
Honestly, I would not go above a 4850x2. The next step up would be the 4870x2, a £124 jump for questionable gains. I'd sock that £124 away in savings, or spend it on a nice evening with a pretty lady.


I wanted ones that looked smart, but not over the top.
You can't go wrong with the two I mentioned. I've owned a couple of Lian-Li cases, and they're really top shelf. A connoisseur geek's choice, if you will. And the Antec p182 is a great, understated, quiet case—I have an earlier model and I love it; nothing like several big, slowly-turning fans to keep things cool'n'quiet (the sound-deadening panels don't hurt, either).


When Windows 7 comes out is that something to look into?
Absolutely. Early reports from the Windows 7 beta have been generally positive (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338314,00.asp). I think Microsoft is learning from the PR disaster they faced with Vista, and for the most part they seem to be positive lessons. Now if only they weren't releasing it in six different versions (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112294) ...

-edit-

Bonus round: I found a video review for the Lian-Li PC-A10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXTbWtz--ps), and here's one for the Antec P182 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5c8OL7UoU0). Neither review is what I would call watchable, but they give you an idea.

[NagatsukaShumi]

I haven't got any ladies to take out with any saved money :laugh4:. No doubt York City will end up swallowing up any spare cash as they torture me for 90 minutes :wall:.

Any case that keeps the sounds down a little will be greatly appreciated, my current one sounded like it was going at 70mph in third gear after I scored a goal in FM, I thought it was a conspiracy to stop me winning a ruddy match for once!

Thanks for the two links Lemur! Greatly appreciated.

PC Gamer was saying its pretty good in the ETW review mag, Vista is relatively stable noawadays isn't it? It would be the 64 Bit I got with the rig, so obviously I can upgrade a bit more.

[Lemur]

Yes, by all accounts Vista has matured nicely, and is now a stable, if irritating, OS.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Ok, I think I have nearly decided pretty much on my full specs, jsut thought I'd post them up to get some last thoughts

Case: Lian-Li PC-A10 Aluminium Tower Case 420W (SILVER Color)
Lights & Illumination: NONE
Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Default Case Fan
Power Supply Upgrade: 700 Watts Power Supplies (CoolerMaster Sielnt PRO 700W Modular PSU SLI Ready/ 80 Plus with 135mm FAN)
CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel® Core™ i7 920 @ 2.66GHz 8 MB cache LGA1366 ***Overclockable XXX***
Overclocking Service: S& S (Safe and stable overclock 10% to 20%)
Cooling Fan: Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme CPU Cooler for Intel 1366 ***Overclockable S& S***
Motherboard: MSI X58 Platinum Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA, Dual GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394a, & 7.1Audio ***Overclockable S& S***
Memory: (Req.DDR3 MainBoard)(3x2GB) PC12800 DDR3/1600mhz Triple Channel Memory (G.SKILL PI Series w/Heat Spreader ***Overclockable XXX***)
VGA Power Supply: NONE
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 4850 X2 PCI-E x16 1GB Video Card
Video Card 2: NONE
Video Card 3: NONE
Monitor & LCD: NONE
2nd Monitor: NONE
Hard Drive: Single Hard Drive (1TB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 32M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Hard Drive Cooler: None
Optical Drive: SONY DUAL FORMAT 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (SILVER COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
Speakers: NONE
Network: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
MODEM: NONE
Keyboard: Logitech Cordless Deluxe 660 Desktop Keyboard & Mouse
Mouse: NONE
Extra Thermal Display : NONE (AS SHOWN)
Wireless 802.11B/G Network Card: NONE
Wireless 802.11B/G Access Point: NONE
Flash Media Reader/Writer: None
Cable Wiring: None
Cables: None
Video Camera: NONE
Power Surge Protection: None
IEEE Card: NONE
USB Port: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
USB Portable Drive: NONE
Floppy: NONE
OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium w/ Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition)
Media Center Remote & TV Tuner: NONE
RUSH SERVICE: RUSH!!! READY TO SHIP IN 5 BUSINESS DAYS
WARRANTY SERVICE: SILVER WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY FIRST YEAR COLLECT & RETURN PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
I chose the Lian Li case after some praise from a friend, after watching a video review I think it is a good option, if only for the fact you can remove the motherboard etc easily for upgrading purposes.

Thats the "almost final" choice pretty much, you guys reckon that is enough to play ETW on high setting, big units etc? That is of course the ultimate aim, everything below them is pretty much expected as they do it on my current one. i.e. FM runs fine now, it'll run better obviously, EUIII runs fine and again the same principle applies there.

Nearly there!

[Lemur]

CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel® Core™ i7 920 @ 2.66GHz
Motherboard: MSI X58 Platinum Intel X58 Chipset
Memory: (3x2GB) PC12800 DDR3/1600mhz
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 4850 X2 PCI-E x16 1GB Video Card
Hard Drive: Single Hard Drive (1TB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 32M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive)
OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium (64-bit Edition)
This is the stuff that will directly impact your play with Empire and the rest of the games that come our over the next two to three years.

I can think of only one scenario in which Empire would not play really well: If you need to have it at insane resolutions. You know, spanning multiple monitors, etc. At any normal resolution you should be able to rock out with anything out there.

Congrats, this is looking like a gaming rig!

[NagatsukaShumi]

Would it be worth investing in a new monitor in that case? Mine has a max resolution of 1440x900, I am guessing thats a bit obselete now? I can get a new one from PC World for a decent enough price, or get it added to my order.

I think as long as it plays the game on high settings, I don't mind down toning down unit sizes to up performance if that is required, although I would presume it shouldn't do?

Cheers Lemur, you've been a great help.

[Lemur]

There's nothing obsolete about 1440x900. That's a perfectly respectable resolution, and the computer you're buying will be able to crush any game at that rez. If you want to step up to a larger/higher rez monitor, that's your call. You've got enough computer for it, that's clear.

For example, when I got my new video card to buck up my two-year-old system, I also got this monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236051), since it had everything I wanted at an insanely cheap price.

It's really a matter of preference. If you're happy with your monitor, don't change it. If you want a little more real estate, now's a good time, what with the global recession driving prices down like crazy.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Well, as it isn't a pressing concern I can always just wait and see how ETW goes on this monitor, if it truly isn't "up to my tastes" I can just go and buy one, certainly now I am getting a third of the price for my current rig to put towards it.

Your right about the qituation, I think I am getting better for my money in most things nowadays, the irony is as I have recovered from illness with a lot of money stored up, businesses are struggling making it easy for me to get bargains and remain financially secure, which is great for me of course.

I was just worried maybe I needed a new monitor, but in that case I can leave it and test so to speak. If it really isn't as good as I want it I can afford to upgrade monitors, though I think I will take your suggestion and save a few pounds a month which would be big enough to buy a PC when they one needs replacing, or to be dipped into for upgrades etc.