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View Full Version : lib Weapon bonuses, how di it affect ranged units ?



Sjakihata
11-01-2001, 23:11
Heeellloo STW freaks http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Wanna ask a question:

If I add weapon bonus to ur archers, do it affect heir ranged attavk, melee attack or both? Is the same true with musketeers?

Sjak.

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"-Know your self, know your enemy and your victory will be painless.
-Know the weather, know the terrain and your victory will be complete."
-Sun Tzu(Wu), The Art of War.

Puzz3D
11-01-2001, 23:59
I just ran a test on this. 60 man units, on green, fine weather, firing on YS in close formation just inside max range. The SA fired 28 arrows/man. The musk fired 1 round/man.

SA H0 W0 48 kills
SA H2 W0 52 kills
SA H2 W3 47 kills
SA H9 W0 52 kills

Musk H0 W0 15 kills
Musk H2 W0 15 kills
Musk H2 W3 12 kills
Musk H9 W0 18 kills

I'd say upgrades don't help ranged fire. Upgrades do add one melee point for each upgrade. Incidentally, multiplying 15 kills by 40 rounds gives 600. That's how many men a musk can kill if the enemy just stands there in close formation.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

Sjakihata
11-02-2001, 00:32
Wauw.. thaks 4 the fast response and 4 taking ur time with all that testing !!!

I've always been adding waepons to my musk if I had spare koku ... Not anymore...!

Sjak.

shingenmitch2
11-02-2001, 00:51
Miz--

great stuff. I'd like to see more tests though on the Muskets/Honor kills. It certainly has seemed through my experience that the higher honor makes a real difference in gun duels. Usually the highter Musks wind up beating off the low honor musks... am I mistaken about this?

tootee
11-02-2001, 01:26
Higher honor musk has better accuracy from far. So if it's a long distance duel, I think the higher honor musk will win out, plus they are less likely to route. That's what I know of STW.. shouldn't be different for MI. On STW, a H4 musk is best, any further upgrade on honor yield very very little returns (rule of diminishing return).

You can test it out MI.. H4 vs H9.

.. and yah, up close, honour make no difference to the hit rate.. but affect the morale, since the musk effect now has a greater impact on the opponent musks (I think).

--tootee aka goldfish shimazu

Puzz3D
11-02-2001, 02:34
The test was at nearly max range, and the distance from shooter to the target was carefully measured to be the same in all cases. The H9 musk did get slightly higher kills than the H2 musk. It was a real quick test, and it would be worth repeating with better statistical accuracy and for all honors from 0 to 9. If there is a slight benefit to raising honor on musk, it could very well be in place by H4 as tootee says.

It wouldn't take much of an advantage to win a musk vs musk duel. The loosing musk would have an increasing disadvantage in men with each volley. Even getting of the first volley would be a significant advantage with the high kill rate of these guns. Also, the reload time would go up 3x as soon as the unit looses enough men to drop to 2 ranks. One thing I have found is that a musk in 3 ranks always beats a musk in 2 ranks at long range. Up close, I would think a full 60 gun volley would be what you would like to have. As far as I can tell, the morale penalty from guns is due to the high casualties they can inflict in a short time, especially up close where kills are around 2x what they are at long range.

I was very surprised at my results for archers. I always though they became more accurate at higher honor.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

11-02-2001, 03:18
I think armour upgrade will decrease the kills of a unit which is fired upon. In fact, it's more expensive that honour/weapon because the latter don't increase armour.

In my months playing MI, my muskets honour3 Armour 1 almost never got beaten by any other combination (Ive always beaten hon4 guns) which are same/better as an hon5 gun.

Tera

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tootee
11-02-2001, 13:54
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:

I was very surprised at my results for archers. I always though they became more accurate at higher honor.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~
[/QUOTE]

In STW previously, I have tested that honor doesn't improve SA accuracy. That's why I use only H0 SA, but have to be real mindful not to let them be attacked.. they waver and run after going

Puzz3D
11-03-2001, 05:09
tootee,

I'm cautious about using SA in melee because when they rout it lowers the morale of nearby units. At least on the flank they are unlikely to rout through a friendly unit which has an even bigger negative effect on morale.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

tootee
11-03-2001, 09:57
Totally agree Yuuki.. it's all about timing when using SA to attack.

--tootee aka goldfish shimazu

A Nerd
11-04-2001, 11:58
I think a weapon advancement should be put into place where you can acquire better bows and/or arrows for archers making them more effective...I tend to use less and less archers as I turn from defense to conquest...