View Full Version : Modifiying ai RTW
The creators of the mod 58BC:Caesar Imperator have been able to create this: "YCFATSAID:
This is a new concept for the RTW modding community. YCFATSAID: stands for "You Can Forget About The Stupid AI Diplomacy"!!!
We have managed to gain full control of AI behaviour and it will not break alliances unless we script it to do so.
Moreover you will no longer fight against fragmented and unrepresentative armies. Instead every battle will be a life and death struggle against full stack enemy armies comprising the relevant historical units!" So i was wondering if the EB team knew about this and if yes i was wondering if they intend to use it and if no would they like to know more about it? If the right anwser is num.2 please visit the following site:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137606
Wow, 1day, 49 viewes and no answers:dizzy2:
I do think it's kinda an important subject, it'd be nice to have some "feedback":whip: :clown:
Best regards
V.T. Marvin
03-02-2009, 16:09
Hmm, from what I have read it seems more like having a lot of scripted events (which is fine given the nature of their mod - to recreate the campaigns of Caesar) rather than actually modding the AI to be able to interact with free-flowing gameplay. :idea2:
I would love to be mistaken, but I am afraid that I am not and that such a concept would be unusable for EB because of hard-coded limits.:wall:
Aemilius Paulus
03-02-2009, 20:46
Why won't the EB team use something along the lines of the Darth Mod?? It is simply marvellous, and the battlefield AI is stunning. Surely there is a way to translate is to the Kingdoms engine or is there already a version for Kingdoms?
Is the Kingdoms AI anywhere close to Darth Mod, or its counterparts? I have not played Kingdoms, despite having it, because M2TW was abandoned by me after two weeks.
Phalanx300
03-02-2009, 22:23
Sounds good, if it can be used that would be great:dizzy2:.
Vasiliyi
03-04-2009, 06:02
I thought the EB team doesnt want to script any events for the AI...isnt this correct?
Why won't the EB team use something along the lines of the Darth Mod?? It is simply marvellous, and the battlefield AI is stunning. Surely there is a way to translate is to the Kingdoms engine or is there already a version for Kingdoms?
You mean Darth formations? EB has created their own historical formations. These aren't optimized to the extent that Darth's are, but they are better than vanilla. If you want to have a less historical, but more optimized formation mod, you should look at this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90313). Darth had created A.I. mods for M2:TW, and there are other teams working on it as well.
On a personal note, I don't understand why so much fuzz is made about Darth formations. I have used them myself for a long time, and I am very grateful to Darth for his efforts, but they do not make the A.I. challenging. They merely raise its performance from pathethic to weak. The A.I. of old S:TW has given me far more trouble than that of any R:TW mod.
I thought the EB team doesnt want to script any events for the AI...isnt this correct?
They actually have, for example the eleutheroi alliances. However, the EB team does not want to do history-on-rails. The player's faction is free to alter history, so the other faction should be as well (in fact they must be allowed to set their own course, because they must react to the player's choices). Also, scripting the A.I. requires the script to anticipate all possible developments. This can be done is a limiting setting, but in a grand campaign the number of possible outcomes is simply too big, so it can't be done.
Well but why won't CA allow any mod team acces to RTW.exe? I get the feeling yall could really make huge steps forward if they allowed it.:furious3:
But what about scripting more determinate events, for example if the KH unify greece and are threatened by a foreigner enemy they get a spawned army composed of the various poleis, who when threatend by the outside united. Or after they unify their homeland they get some sort of spawned army as a civil war conflict between the major powers.....
These are just suggestions but there are many more things that you could script.
Well but why won't CA allow any mod team acces to RTW.exe? I get the feeling yall could really make huge steps forward if they allowed it.:furious3:
I am not sure what you are arguing, but very few developers give their fans access to the source code, because it demonstrates their techniques to competing developers.
Also, a program like R:TW is going to be very complex. Even if the team had access to the R:TW source code, it would take weeks to figure out how the program works, let alone improve it. Even something as simple as changing the faction limit may require rewriting of multiple parts of the program.
Oh sorry, I must have misunderstood allt hose posts about RTW.exe.
Any way what about the scripted events?
so hard coded means the eb team are'nt allowed to change it? here i was thinking that it wasn't possible to change it
Raygereio
03-08-2009, 01:26
so hard coded means the eb team are'nt allowed to change it? here i was thinking that it wasn't possible to change it
Someone more programming knowledgeable may correct me on this, but hard coding means that data is inputed directly into the source code of a program, instead of the the program obtaining that data from an external source.
For example, units in RomeTW are softcoded; the program checks external files like the EDU for the units' stats, the model files for how the units looks ingame, the EDB for where it can be recruited, etc. All those files can be easily (and legally) be modified.
Other stuff, like the AI, are hard coded; the stuff the program checks for that is inside the .exe and can't be modified (As far as I know, the only thing AI related that is softcoded are the formations that the AI uses. And you can mod that all you want, but give an idiot a stick, or a full hoplite panoply, it still an idiot and will only hurt himself with it).
The only way to change hardcoded stuff is to obtain the source code of that .exe, change whatever you want and then recompile the program.
Getting the source code can be possible, but the EULA (that long text you usually see when you install a game and skip over) says you're not allowed to do that.
So hard coded means it's way more difficult and in some cases impossible to change, but more importantly, you're not allowed to.
Atraphoenix
03-08-2009, 09:12
In short it is illegal to play with game engine.(exes)
You have to satisfy yourself with only data files like any modder.
Someone more programming knowledgeable may correct me on this, but hard coding means that data is inputed directly into the source code of a program, instead of the the program obtaining that data from an external source.
That's basically correct. SEGA won't be giving fans permission to distribute the R:TW source code, improved or not, because this would effectively be giving away free copies of R:TW. CA and SEGA have got to make a living.
But what about scripting more determinate events, for example if the KH unify greece and are threatened by a foreigner enemy they get a spawned army composed of the various poleis, who when threatend by the outside united. Or after they unify their homeland they get some sort of spawned army as a civil war conflict between the major powers.....
It's technically possible, but there are a number of problems:
1) The script is already bloated and slowing the game down. This would make it even bigger and slower.
2) The R:TW scripting language is very basic, limiting the options. For example, it may not be possible to make one army attack another one. It certainly isn't possible for the script to know the names and locations of characters on the campaign map.
3) What is the historical justification of these events? Why does the KH get free armies, but not other factions? Remember that in EB, factions will not get ahistorical bonuses.
4) How will the A.I. respond to it? The problem with EB's A.I. is not that it got too few armies, rather that it does not use the ones it has effectively.
1) The script is already bloated and slowing the game down. This would make it even bigger and slower.
2) The R:TW scripting language is very basic, limiting the options. For example, it may not be possible to make one army attack another one. It certainly isn't possible for the script to know the names and locations of characters on the campaign map.
3) What is the historical justification of these events? Why does the KH get free armies, but not other factions? Remember that in EB, factions will not get ahistorical bonuses.
4) How will the A.I. respond to it? The problem with EB's A.I. is not that it got too few armies, rather that it does not use the ones it has effectively.
1) Yeah, damn!
2)Damn, damn, damn
3)
These are just suggestions but there are many more things that you could script.
Plus about the first thing rmember the second persian war, where Themistocles united all greeks sout of Beotia to fight the common foreign enemy, the Persians.
4)Well we could tell it to directly seige city x (eg Athens).
And remember these are mere suggestions, there are many more things we could do, but i'm shure you already know that.:2thumbsup:
3) I seem to remember that the Argives did not participate, for good reason. The Thebans openly sided with the Persians, and I suspect there were other pro-Persian cities. Similarly, invasions of the Macedones, Epirotes, Seleucids and Romans triggered resistance, but not unification. So it's a bit more complex than what you propose. I doubt the scripting language is up to simulating anything complex. I am also not a fan of scripted armies appearing out of nowhere.
4) Can we? And would that be an appropriate response under every circumstance?
where Themistocles united all greeks sout of Beotia
So what i said was right as Thebes is in Beotia, and there were some pro persian factions in some city politics but they were either corrupt or wished to be ruled by a king, wich is not really hellen-like.
About n° 4 well that was just an example, an other thing we could do is scriopt a roman civil war, and really any faction would have had these kinds of problems, no matter how strong your empire is you'll always find enemys, even inside. So we could work with that.
If you can find a way to do that realistically, I am sure the EB team will be very interested.
Publio Cornelio Escipión Africano Mayor
03-11-2009, 18:53
I think the main AI problem is diplomacy. You can't make peace, you can't make good treaties, you can't accomplish the reason war exists (so Clausewitz says) "War is... an act of force to compel our enemy to do our will" and the important word there is COMPEL. Conquest is not the only option and the force diplomacy mod is not enough because you never get natural or logical responses from the AI.
Reducing the capabilities of the enemy, through a military operation, is almost impossible in Rome Total War EB. The money the machine gets every damn turn makes politics and diplomacy based on military actions impossible. You have to undertake a huge army operation to kill the threat of the red, yellow and grey death, you can never compel the enemy to surrender without a total destrution of their nation.
If I could change something in the game would be giving real national personalities, giving intentions to each character so when the ruler dies the next one will or will not change the internal and external policies of that faction.
So you could be able to face an enemy that has missions and intentions.
That would give real depth to the game.
Maion Maroneios
03-11-2009, 19:02
Dude, I know this off-topic, but you have a disturbingly long name :dizzy: Nothing personal here.
Maion
Publio Cornelio Escipión Africano Mayor
03-11-2009, 19:11
Man, it's not the first time someone has told me that. I'd really like to have an answer to my post, specially from a smart guy like you.
Publio Cornelio Escipión Africano Mayor
03-11-2009, 19:34
Does anyone of you guys know how does the diplomats influence affects negociations??
A Very Super Market
03-11-2009, 23:51
No real idea. I believe it affects bribe costs, mainly. As for the other ones, the only ones of use are trade rights and alliance (Protectorate, I guess) and if a faction will not ally with you solely based on influence.
Gaius Scribonius Curio
03-12-2009, 00:42
Technically it makes them more likely to succeed. However I couldn't tell you any proportions or just how effective each extra wreath makes the diplomat.
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