First Impressions

[IsItStillThere]

Campaign Map: Very attractive, looks like a cross between Europa Universalis III and Civilization IV. Seems a bit hard to see units and characters easily because they don't stand out much. Lots or animations, etc. Shiny, nice looking water. Very easy to see trade routes and the amount of trade and who it belongs too.

Navies: Nations like England and France who, in 1700, had whole fleets of ships-of-the-line, start the campaign game with no ship larger than a frigate (and a small number of them at that). Very strange decision.

Armies: Like ships, the numbers of soldiers are very small compared to historical fact. Love the ability to promote units to get an instant general. General units aren't the battle hammers they used to be...best reserved for mopping up routers and shoring up morale.

Battles: I wish there were more historical battles to fight, but battle maps and controls seem very familiar and it wasn't hard to get into them. Maybe they'll make more for download, or others will make custom ones and make them available.

Campaign game: Seems like empire management gets a bit more complicated compared to M2TW. Wish they had eliminated religious units and effects entirely...a simplification to offset the other increases in complexity. Diplomacy is much better now without having to shuttle diplomats around.

off to try some naval battles...:sharky:

[A Very Super Market]

Well the armies and navies are always really small in TW games.

At first. Milan

[knoddy]

i still havnt figured out how to promote a general/admiral is it just the buy admiral feature in the bottom right of the army pane? that costs like 1500 or is there a way to do it without buying?

Cheers knoddy

ps sorry for hte hijack :P

[Murmandamus]

I'm loving the game, but my first assault on a fort was an AI disaster. 800 defenders vs 1100 attackers. I think I took 30 odd casualties and only a handful of the enemy escaped.

The AI started with its artillery outside the fort all on its own in the middle of a forest. So they just sat there pounding at the trees until I sent a unit in to mop them up.

It had 1 other unit outside the walls, also in a useless position, which was quickly dealt with.

My artillery had been pounding away at the gate all this time to no apparent effect, so I switched them to the wall instead, which they ended up breaching in a 1/4 of the time that they'd spent on the gate.

External units dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the brave enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one foolhardy unit. So I arrange a semicircle of 9 of my units to greet them, which it marches straight into the middle of.

That unit dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the unconventional enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one more foolhardy unit into the semicircle of doom.

That unit dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the insane enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one more foolhardy unit into the semicircle of doom.

That unit dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the retarded enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one more foolhardy unit into the semicircle of doom.

I think you can see the pattern here. When I finally made my assault on the fort there were only 2 enemy units left + the general. It didn't occupy any of the buildings in the fort, didn't try to defend the breach in the wall, didn't even keep its remaining units together. It just bent over and took it.

I think I need to crank the difficulty slider and try again. I've never seen the AI do that badly in previous titles :)

[Hooahguy]

Murmandamus- what difficulty level were you at?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The AI doesn't understand forts, from what I hear.

[PanzerJaeger]

And so it begins...

[Kongeslask]

- Started a "long" Grand Campaign as France, normal/normal. A few turns in Wurtemberg declares war on me for no apparent reason. The next turn Savoie does them same, again seemingly unmotivated. I invade and defeat Wurtemberg easily.

- In 1705 my monarch dies. I get a message about a war of succession starting. Austria and German minor allies Westphalia and Bavaria, the United provinces and Britain all declare war on me. I call on my Spanish allies. By 1710 I have taken Westphalia and the Netherlands region, knocking the UP out of the game. They are quite rebellious though and will probably revolt soon. In this time the only attacks against me are some tiny, ineffectual invasions by Bavaria and Savoie. Britain has hit my shipping hard, but this is thus far only a nuisance. My ally Spain has proved entirely ineffectual, marching small bands back and forth through their territory.

- AI leaves its batteries entirely undefended in field battles, making them easy prey for my lancers.

Haven't played further yet, but this does not bode well for the prowess of either the strategic or tactical AI.

[A Very Super Market]

Bah, hard is always the way to go.

[Murmandamus]

Murmandamus- what difficulty level were you at?
Whatever the default is :)

[Gregoshi]

And so it begins...
Kosh?! Is that you? :laugh4:

[Necceh]

The AI hasn't been all that impressive, i'm usually not all that when it comes to strategy, i've been using a standard flanking approach, that i've used in other Total War Games and it seems to have worked fairly easily.

That being said i've only got it set on default, i'll crank it up on the next game :).

I love the game though, had a bit of a geek moment lastnight. Listening to Battlestar Galatacia sound track and had my infantry charge a line of Ottomons with the speed set to slo-motion, was a jaw dropping moment for me, rarely seen in games these days.

The campaign map is okay, but after playing EU3 it seems quite basic and yes it's really hard to spot certain units and so on.


Overall the game is fantastic, and despite some negative coments here i love it, these were simply me nit picking, hate it when i do that.

[Discoman]

When I was sieged the AI was very responsive. They sent two units an alternate route to flank the back of the fort and the rest attacked from the front. They placed their cannons far back, which were still vulnerable due to my cannon emplacements. They also had a second army attacking from behind and it they charged two units in reserve, killed them, and attempted to scale the fort. Meanwhile their front assault was successful, until I flanked them with 3 groups of cavalry, which had a period of struggle as they were intercepted. The battle continued on and I won with only 1/4 my original army.

[Fisherking]

It must work then!:idea2:

If you are playing on the easy setting the General has all the military acumen of a Cheese Merchant and on the difficult settings you face a veteran Field Marshal.


Most of the attempted AARs have ended in uncompleted games that the players would have lost…:oops:


:laugh4:

[JeromeBaker]

So far here are some items I love about the game:

1. On VH/H I am losing a lot of troops in battle which is making me take battles more serious.
2. I love the way you advance techs (reminds me of civ series), as it gives you a lot more control of how you advance your empire.
3. I like the way it uses rakes and gentlemen way better than spys/ assasains. The fact that they spawn makes them more important as you dont want to throw them away in a useless duel.
4. Its nice having automatic ability to negotiate diplomacy with the click of a button instead of sending a diplomat.
5. I like how you build up cities, fortifications, buildings, ect.. around your main cities
6. I like the naval battles.
7. I love the animations where soldiers scale walls, climb fences, and horses jump fences. There are a lot of little details they did a great job on.
8. Love the style of fighting with the time period weaponry.
9. Most in depth TW game so far to me, which makes it my favorite ( i know its early to say this, but it is definetly my favorite).
10. Like the fact I can promote good millitary leaders.
11. Diplomacy is improved.

Things I dont like about the game:
1. A little buggy (lags sometimes when you click on a general)
2. I am sure I will get accustomed to the AI trying to take out my general and then battles will become harder to lose.
3. I had to buy a new computer to run the game, but this is not CAs fault, its mine for neglecting my old computer for so long it wasnt worth upgrading.

[ArtillerySmoke]

I'm loving the game, but my first assault on a fort was an AI disaster. 800 defenders vs 1100 attackers. I think I took 30 odd casualties and only a handful of the enemy escaped.

The AI started with its artillery outside the fort all on its own in the middle of a forest. So they just sat there pounding at the trees until I sent a unit in to mop them up.

It had 1 other unit outside the walls, also in a useless position, which was quickly dealt with.

My artillery had been pounding away at the gate all this time to no apparent effect, so I switched them to the wall instead, which they ended up breaching in a 1/4 of the time that they'd spent on the gate.

External units dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the brave enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one foolhardy unit. So I arrange a semicircle of 9 of my units to greet them, which it marches straight into the middle of.

That unit dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the unconventional enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one more foolhardy unit into the semicircle of doom.

That unit dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the insane enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one more foolhardy unit into the semicircle of doom.

That unit dealt with it was time to assault the fort, but wait, do my eyes deceive me or is the retarded enemy bring the fight out to me? No, it's just sending one more foolhardy unit into the semicircle of doom.

I think you can see the pattern here. When I finally made my assault on the fort there were only 2 enemy units left + the general. It didn't occupy any of the buildings in the fort, didn't try to defend the breach in the wall, didn't even keep its remaining units together. It just bent over and took it.

I think I need to crank the difficulty slider and try again. I've never seen the AI do that badly in previous titles :)

Guess you never played RTW or M2TW. The battle AI was attrocious.

[AussieGiant]

I remember saying this a bloody long time ago many many games ago.

Before anyone start hammering the AI, make sure you are playing on VH/VH...otherwise it MIGHT be by actual DESIGN that you are winning. :dizzy2:

Crapping on the AI while on M/M is like a Polar Bear complaining that Australia is too hot in summer.

[andrewt]

I'm not familiar with this time period, but I'm a bit disappinted that the unit rosters are very similar. Then again, MTW2's isn't that great, either. They mostly just had different names for essentially the same units. I kinda miss MTW where almost every faction has 1-2 specialized units that nobody else has that gives it an advantage.

It seems towns and units are harder to spot in the campaign map as well. And there's no option to see stuff like income permanently on the game map. You have to mouse over the town name. Other than that, the new campaign map looks really promising.

[ArtillerySmoke]

I remember saying this a bloody long time ago many many games ago.

Before anyone start hammering the AI, make sure you are playing on VH/VH...otherwise it MIGHT be the by actual DESIGN that you are winning. :dizzy2:

Crapping on the AI while on M/M is like a Polar Bear complaining that Australia is too hot in summer.

I've seen posts about M2TW with people complaining that the AI is "too easy" on the easiest difficulties, but yet it never occurred to them that they're playing on sandbox mode.

The AI is supposed to be dumb as rocks on the easiest difficulties.

[AussieGiant]

I've seen posts about M2TW with people complaining that the AI is "too easy" on the easiest difficulties, but yet it never occurred to them that they're playing on sandbox mode.

The AI is supposed to be dumb as rocks on the easiest difficulties.

Exactly!!:2thumbsup:

[DEY123]

I have been playing the TW games since the first MTW (I lost my log in and created a new one). I would say that so far that AI seems vastly improved over RTW and M2TW. With MTW I think some things were a bit scripted since there was a limit on the number of battlefields the computer was forced to fight on...

Anyhow I find that on H/H The computer is a reasponable opponent on land and on Sea I get torn to pieces but I am guessing that is because my tactics suck there. There are of course the occasional oddities like the danes sending single line infantry units to take my port even though I have a much larger stack in the way. If not for my stack this would be a very smart move...Anyhow as with all games I'm sure the AI has some big weaknesses but at least unlike RTW and even more so M2TW I can't just send a unit around the flank and cause the enemy to go into a mass route..


All in all I'm liking E:TW, but still working on all the new campaign details (which is great as the campaign in M2TW was too similar to RTW in my opinion).

Anyhow I'm very glad I got this game. I am playing with most things set to High (except grass and sea as I recall Grass slowing stuff down). Additionally I have no anti-aliasing set up and am playing 1280 x 1024. I do have smoke and Haze turned on I use Fraps and have yet to see the FPS dip below 18 and normally on the battles in the 20s (largest battle was probably 15 on 15).

My PC is a decent rig ( I paid about $200 recently to upgrade my CPU from a 3800+ and my GPU from a 7600GT)

Win XP
AMD X2 6000+ (overclocked by about 5%)
2GB of RAM (4-4-4-12 running above 800MHz)
512MB 9800GT (paid like $120 at tiger direct)

Anyhow back to playing.

[Sir Beane]

I'm not familiar with this time period, but I'm a bit disappinted that the unit rosters are very similar. Then again, MTW2's isn't that great, either. They mostly just had different names for essentially the same units. I kinda miss MTW where almost every faction has 1-2 specialized units that nobody else has that gives it an advantage.

It seems towns and units are harder to spot in the campaign map as well. And there's no option to see stuff like income permanently on the game map. You have to mouse over the town name. Other than that, the new campaign map looks really promising.

It's historical. During the 18th century everyone used more or less the same units, with uniform and technology being the only variations. It makes the game more balanced at least :laugh4:.

I'd like to see more variety though, and hopefully the moders can help us there :2thumbsup:.

[ArtillerySmoke]

It's historical. During the 18th century everyone used more or less the same units, with uniform and technology being the only variations. It makes the game more balanced at least :laugh4:.

I'd like to see more variety though, and hopefully the moders can help us there :2thumbsup:.

You guys are crazy lol. The game's out 1 day and we're already talking about mods.

[Sir Beane]

You guys are crazy lol. The game's out 1 day and we're already talking about mods.

We were talking about mods month before the game even came out :tongue:. Although sadly at the moment mods are completely impossible.

[AussieGiant]

Holy Royal Mail Batman!!!!

It's arrived!! And 4 days earlier than expected!!!

The weekend has been destroyed!!! :beam:

[Belid Hagen]

im not all that impressed with the "new" AI. So far I've only lost one battle, and that was my half stack army of americans, with all units at half strenght. against two half stack armies of brits / natives with full strenght units. so about 1:4 in numbers. and i did just as much damage as i recived before the continued defense became impossible, and I withdrawing in an orderly fasion.

[Sir Beane]

im not all that impressed with the "new" AI. So far I've only lost one battle, and that was my half stack army of americans, with all units at half strenght. against two half stack armies of brits / natives with full strenght units. so about 1:4 in numbers. and i did just as much damage as i recived before the continued defense became impossible, and I withdrawing in an orderly fasion.

What difficulty are you playing on?

[IsItStillThere]

Well the armies and navies are always really small in TW games.

At first. Milan

True, and its understandable on the land battles. You can only control (and the computer render) so many men at once in a battle. So I can understand understating numbers of men.

And for naval battles, the forces are limited to 20 ships a side. Fair enough. But to pretend that in 1700 that the major nations had no ships of the line?! Ridiculous. How about Britain and France starting off with a couple of fleets of ten each? Would that be so wrong?

BTW, while there is a discussion going on about difficulty, does anyone know what happens on hard and very hard to help the AI? Do they get smarter, get bonuses or both? In the ideal world, I'd like them to be as smart as possible without getting a lot of bonuses.

[andrewt]

It's historical. During the 18th century everyone used more or less the same units, with uniform and technology being the only variations. It makes the game more balanced at least :laugh4:.

I'd like to see more variety though, and hopefully the moders can help us there :2thumbsup:.


Yeah, I took a look at all the unit rosters using the play battle mode. It looked at first like France has a lot of unique units, then I compared their roster to Britain's, and it seems like CA just gave them their French names in the English version to sound "different". :laugh4:

I'm still deciding which faction I want to start as. United Provinces looks like they have a nice starting position but I don't think there's another faction with a more vanilla roster. I might just start with Road to Independence to get used to this period's tactics.

Oh, and I didn't know the U.S. would only be playable on the RTI campaign. That's more historically accurate, though.

[Sir Beane]

Yeah, I took a look at all the unit rosters using the play battle mode. It looked at first like France has a lot of unique units, then I compared their roster to Britain's, and it seems like CA just gave them their French names in the English version to sound "different". :laugh4:

I'm still deciding which faction I want to start as. United Provinces looks like they have a nice starting position but I don't think there's another faction with a more vanilla roster. I might just start with Road to Independence to get used to this period's tactics.

Oh, and I didn't know the U.S. would only be playable on the RTI campaign. That's more historically accurate, though.

Great Britain has the most unique units I think, especially if you have Special Forces. Other than that the Maratha have some interesting units like Elephant General's bodyguard. :2thumbsup:

[Sol Invictus]

I have only finished Ch. 1 of RtI; lol; but my initial impressions are great because after hearing of the problems some people are having with Steam, I am just happy to have had a seemless installation and was able to start without a crash. Game looks nice and runs well on High with my mediocre system. I am dieing to jump into the GC, but I am going to complete RtI as soon as I can first. I hope my good fortune continues this eve.

[ArtillerySmoke]

I have only finished Ch. 1 of RtI; lol; but my initial impressions are great because after hearing of the problems some people are having with Steam, I am just happy to have had a seemless installation and was able to start without a crash. Game looks nice and runs well on High with my mediocre system. I am dieing to jump into the GC, but I am going to complete RtI as soon as I can first. I hope my good fortune continues this eve.

Don't see any reason that they won't.

I love how RtI is in the game. It's a great introduction to things without getting too deeply involved in a GC.

I'll be installing later on and ...I can barely contain my excitement lol. I saw some Napoleonic battles portrayed on the Military Channel the other night and was just like "I cannot believe I'll be commanding battles like this soon".

[Nelson]

True, and its understandable on the land battles. You can only control (and the computer render) so many men at once in a battle. So I can understand understating numbers of men.

And for naval battles, the forces are limited to 20 ships a side. Fair enough. But to pretend that in 1700 that the major nations had no ships of the line?! Ridiculous. How about Britain and France starting off with a couple of fleets of ten each? Would that be so wrong?


Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this. From Shogun onward CA has been determined to make us tech up to get what was already available at the campaign start date. In Rome, by the time you can build triarii you are almost to Marius despite the obvious historical existence of the entire manipular legion when the game begins. Ah well. This may be how they choose to balance the factions.

[Sir Beane]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this. From Shogun onward CA has been determined to make us tech up to get what was already available at the campaign start date. In Rome, by the time you can build triarii you are almost to Marius despite the obvious historical existence of the entire manipular legion when the game begins. Ah well. This may be how they choose to balance the factions.

The factions don't really need balancing too much, as they all have near indentical unit rosters. :2thumbsup:

Giving facions first rates at the start would invalidate the naval tech tree, because a lot of it needs to be researched to build them. And then of course there's the fact you need a top-level shipyard as well.

It's irritating, but I can understand where CA is coming from. Teching up gives you a sense of progress and accomplishment which would be missing if all the tech was available from the start.

It's one of those tricky realism vs. gameplay issues :sweatdrop:.

[Nelson]

It's one of those tricky realism vs. gameplay issues :sweatdrop:.

Bingo, Sir Beane! :smile:

I have installed the game along with the special forces and the USS Constitution (from Best Buy) but have only played some of the American tutorial thus far. I like it.

[Eusebius86]

Here's my initial impression as I just picked up the game from gamestop today. I made sure to restart my pc after installing ETW, so no CTD's or errors. No steam problems whatsoever. Also, load times about 1/2 of the demo's.
- Lots of people on the twcenter forums complaining about the graphics being too intensive compared to the demo, I haven't had any problems on high settings, 1440x900 res, grass low (9800 gt, 2.5 Ghz dual core, 2GB ram XP).
- Graphics are great on campaign and battles, almost flawless.
- Have had 1 CTD after 3 hours of play, not too bad
- am po'd that I can't delete save games, as I'm constantly saving games because I'm concerned about CTD's...
- RtI campaign is long a REALLY LONG tutorial, kind of boring. And I'm a huge American Revolution fan. I wish I could change the settings to VH for RtI, but you can't...
- Battle AI is great in open field, I almost lost General Washington to an ambush which was almost flawlessly executed by the AI.
- Siege AI is possibly WORSE than RTW and M2TW. Pathfinding sucks, AI sits around all day doing nothing, etc. I hate it and autoresolve every single siege now...
- I may quit the RtI campaign and jump in to the Grand Campaign as Prussia or Great Britain soon. It's not quite as immersive as I hoped it would be. Maybe it's just because there are so many sieges, and I'm absolutely hating the siege AI...

[Murmandamus]

Guess you never played RTW or M2TW. The battle AI was attrocious.
I've played them all and I've never seen it do anywhere near that badly, which is what led me to post about it :)

I cranked the battle AI to full strength and it did a much better job at fort defense. Different fight, but I lost about 500 out of 1500 this time, though that was partly my own fault. The enemy had cannon inside the fort and they blew up a wall section that I had a unit on before I noticed what they were doing. Trying to assault 3 sides of the fort at the same time gets a bit hectic. Lost 100 men when the wall went down. Cool seeing the AI blow up its own fort to defend it. I'd do the same :)

My second mistake was taking out 2 sections of one of the walls. With the small fort, when you take down a section of wall it also takes out the stairs that lead up to the wall. The enemy had about 4 units up on the front wall. I took out both wall sections either side of the gate which left 3 1/2 units stuck up there in the middle section.

That was fine in one respect because it meant they couldn't get down to defend when I charged in, but it also meant that they had a good position to shoot down on me, and I couldn't get up to them unless I wanted heavy losses. I ended up winning via holding the center square for the countdown with 300 or so of the enemy still stuck up on the wall. First time I've ever had to win a siege battle via countdown in a TW game. I usually do my best to kill all the enemy instead :)

I also very nearly ran out of money which looks like it will cause problems in this game. Previously you'd just go negative balance, but I got a warning when I hit the end turn button saying that if I continued I'd run out of money, that a bunch of units would disband due to not getting paid and that citizens could riot. Luckily I had just started the above siege which was to take a French province, so I was able to just do the attack and take the province which increased my income enough to cover my army upkeep costs :)

[ArtillerySmoke]

I've played them all and I've never seen it do anywhere near that badly, which is what led me to post about it :)

I cranked the battle AI to full strength and it did a much better job at fort defense. Different fight, but I lost about 500 out of 1500 this time, though that was partly my own fault. The enemy had cannon inside the fort and they blew up a wall section that I had a unit on before I noticed what they were doing. Trying to assault 3 sides of the fort at the same time gets a bit hectic. Lost 100 men when the wall went down. Cool seeing the AI blow up its own fort to defend it. I'd do the same :)

My second mistake was taking out 2 sections of one of the walls. With the small fort, when you take down a section of wall it also takes out the stairs that lead up to the wall. The enemy had about 4 units up on the front wall. I took out both wall sections either side of the gate which left 3 1/2 units stuck up there in the middle section.

That was fine in one respect because it meant they couldn't get down to defend when I charged in, but it also meant that they had a good position to shoot down on me, and I couldn't get up to them unless I wanted heavy losses. I ended up winning via holding the center square for the countdown with 300 or so of the enemy still stuck up on the wall. First time I've ever had to win a siege battle via countdown in a TW game. I usually do my best to kill all the enemy instead :)

I also very nearly ran out of money which looks like it will cause problems in this game. Previously you'd just go negative balance, but I got a warning when I hit the end turn button saying that if I continued I'd run out of money, that a bunch of units would disband due to not getting paid and that citizens could riot. Luckily I had just started the above siege which was to take a French province, so I was able to just do the attack and take the province which increased my income enough to cover my army upkeep costs :)

Sounds good.

The zero negative balance is also phenomenal imo. I always thought the negative balance was a joke. You have to feed your soldiers or your campaign is over.

[IlDuce]

The factions don't really need balancing too much, as they all have near indentical unit rosters. :2thumbsup:

Giving facions first rates at the start would invalidate the naval tech tree, because a lot of it needs to be researched to build them. And then of course there's the fact you need a top-level shipyard as well.

It's irritating, but I can understand where CA is coming from. Teching up gives you a sense of progress and accomplishment which would be missing if all the tech was available from the start.

It's one of those tricky realism vs. gameplay issues :sweatdrop:.

Defo agree with you on the sense of achievement from teching up. The first battle with Fire by rank was awesome. The cherokee charging at me like usual, probably cocky that they'd do some good damage. Then they rout before they even clash with me. Nothing like slaughtering the natives with superior firepower.

[ArtillerySmoke]

Defo agree with you on the sense of achievement from teching up. The first battle with Fire by rank was awesome. The cherokee charging at me like usual, probably cocky that they'd do some good damage. Then they rout before they even clash with me. Nothing like slaughtering the natives with superior firepower.

Do the natives wage guerilla warfare as they should? As in, unconventional?

[Sir Beane]

Do the natives wage guerilla warfare as they should? As in, unconventional?

They do tend to raid surrounding unprotected towns and run if they don't think they can take you in a straight fight. I was sitting in a fort waiting for them but they torched all my plantations and the legged it back into friendly territory. (The they I am talking about is the Cherokee.)

[A Very Super Market]

Natives really die quite a lot in open field battles. Unfortunately, they hide around in the forests.

[ArtillerySmoke]

They do tend to raid surrounding unprotected towns and run if they don't think they can take you in a straight fight. I was sitting in a fort waiting for them but they torched all my plantations and the legged it back into friendly territory. (The they I am talking about is the Cherokee.)

Perfect.

Straight out of the Art of War :2thumbsup:

edit: I'm a nostalgic guy, but anyone who remembers the AI doing that in previous total war titles (including MTW) is looking through rose tinted glasses. That's a great sign that the natives would assess their strength accurately and attack where the least defense is.

[IlDuce]

Yeah, they do tend to raid your settlements and are at a big disadvantage in open battles which is why I try to draw them out by raiding their farms and stuff. Really cool that this completely different style of warfare is being used in a TW game. It can actually be enjoyable to not go straight for a battle.

[IsItStillThere]

The factions don't really need balancing too much, as they all have near indentical unit rosters. :2thumbsup:

Giving facions first rates at the start would invalidate the naval tech tree, because a lot of it needs to be researched to build them. .

Then why not start the naval tech tree where it actually was in 1700 and go from there? Let us, the players, change history instead of doing it for us.

Don't get me wrong, the game is great and will still be a lot of fun...but it would have been even better to have a historically realistic starting point.

[A Very Super Market]

Well.... basically all the units were researched in 1700.

[Quickening]

Ive just uploaded my first impressions video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQcjBkpHSlE

[Sir Beane]

Then why not start the naval tech tree where it actually was in 1700 and go from there? Let us, the players, change history instead of doing it for us.

Don't get me wrong, the game is great and will still be a lot of fun...but it would have been even better to have a historically realistic starting point.

The thing is you'd research about four technologies the entire game. To get the naval tech tree to any sort of size they had to change things a little.

[Phog_of_War]

Personally I have really enjoyed Empire so far. I am just about done with the RtI and will jump into the GC soon, probably as Spain.

A few nice features:

- The reinforcement system

- Besides raiding farms and plantations you can interdict trade on land and sea

- Your Gentlemen can enter enemy schools and steal tech

- I like the cover system, however the only drawback is that, as mentioned in other posts, the AI just doesen't use it effectivly and cant seem to figure out how to overcome enemy units behind walls, fences and entrenchments.

- The Bunker Hill battle was well done and fairly accurate except that there should have been Redcoat reinforcements from the city of Boston.

[Begin History Lesson] There were about 400 or so volunteers that were watching the battle from Boston who rowed over to the fight after seeing the British attacks repulsed twice. Without those men the outcome of Bunker Hill might have been very different. General Howe probably would have been recalled earlier in the war for such foolhardy tactics as the frontal assault on a well fortified position.

As it was he ended up wasting valuable time and English resources chasing Washington around New England, for nearly a year I believe. When what he should have done is, quickly follow up his (Phyrric) victory and ended the Revolution. Instead he was very conservitive and didnt have that killer instinct. And that is what allowed the Revolution to grow and quickly gain momentum in the Colonies. [End History Lesson] :sorry2:

- I enjoy the dueling cut scenes. Any TW cutscene really.



So besides a few CTD, which is just a fact of life when you have Vista.:furious3: I have found Empire to be probably the best of the bunch so far. MP should be intresting but haven't even tested the waters there since, ummm, Med 1, I guess.:dizzy2: and I'm looking forward to starting the GC soon.

[IsItStillThere]

The thing is you'd research about four technologies the entire game. To get the naval tech tree to any sort of size they had to change things a little.

I can certainly see your point. Its like they decided to have a big tech tree first, then made adjustments to accommodate it. Instead, they could have decided what kind of game they wanted first, then determine the tech tree. I personally would have gone with the latter option. Is there some law that says a big, complicated tech tree is a necessity in a game such as this? Especially since the naval techs are only one branch.


Speaking of the tech tree, is there somewhere that it is posted? Its not in the manual and only the building tree came with the game. Thanks!

[A Very Super Market]

The tech tree is laid out in full in-game.

[Lord of the Isles]

Very First Impression - in shop

CELLOPHANE WRAPPED BOX! OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY... <- all games create this feeling in me :beam:

Next Impressions - on installing

I had a activation code problem for a couple of hours, drove me crazy but partly my fault.

First Worthwhile Impressions - on playing first day

So many little hassles, and a few bigger ones. A small selection:

-- manual too small to be useful
-- deleting save games - not possible in-game, took me an hour to track down where CA saves them
-- cannons need micromanaged - friendly fire - overriding targets I choose - aarrgghh
-- CTD around turn 19, reload repeats CTD, load from earlier save, another CTD at turn 34, restart game
-- tracing a new location for a group move while at x4 speed regularly doesn't work - group sits where they are
-- have mapped Pause key to 'toggle pause' along with the default 'p', but it doesn't work as well, needs 2 or 3 hits sometimes
-- diplomacy offers cannot be minimized so I can go check on info regarding offer
-- stretching out a new formation should use unit frontages proportional to remaining men in unit - this stopped working from RTW onwards
-- no autosaves before current turn?
-- troop movement too fast in battles - only played mods of M2TW for so long I had forgotten the soldiers on speed effect
-- annoyed at trade zone problem till I found evidence in forums it was a bug they are working on
-- had to downgrade graphics driver for nvidia 8800 GTS since recent one may interact badly with ETW

I don't remember so many little niggles in a TW game before, nor so many posts in the fan forums with problems on the first day of a release (though Steam has undoubtedly increased this number). And I could go on. But I won't because of:

Final First Impressions - after leaving computer on first day

AARRGGHHH! MY NECK AND BACK REALLY HURT!

I couldn't believe how sore I suddenly was. Because I'd just spent hours without moving perched awkwardly on the edge of my chair, hands clutching the mouse and keyboard trying to get the most out of my country and its troops, wondering what was going to happen next. So for all the moans and issues I have with the game, that's one day of damn enjoyable gaming (excepting the odd few wasted hours) that I didn't want to end.

So the game clearly has potential. Too early to say whether it will live up to that potential but we'll see. Now you must excuse me: I have to go land some troops and find Mughal Empire territories to conquer. This time, having restarted my game as Britain, I've got there before the Maratha Confederacy has taken over most of the continent. :yes:

[quadalpha]

-- tracing a new location for a group move while at x4 speed regularly doesn't work - group sits where they are
-- have mapped Pause key to 'toggle pause' along with the default 'p', but it doesn't work as well, needs 2 or 3 hits sometimes


Those seem to be related problems that happen when you don't have a high frame rate; they are probably due to the game's not having a keypress buffer.

[andrewt]

I can certainly see your point. Its like they decided to have a big tech tree first, then made adjustments to accommodate it. Instead, they could have decided what kind of game they wanted first, then determine the tech tree. I personally would have gone with the latter option. Is there some law that says a big, complicated tech tree is a necessity in a game such as this? Especially since the naval techs are only one branch.


Speaking of the tech tree, is there somewhere that it is posted? Its not in the manual and only the building tree came with the game. Thanks!


Pretty much every strategy game needs a pretty big tech tree and have sides be underdeveloped at the start. Otherwise, the player has nothing to spend gold on except more units and there's no trade-offs involved. The trade-off between units, technology or economy or any combination is central to any strategy game.

If the game was completely realistic, armies would be the same size and have almost the same capability in 1700 as in 1800, which would make it boring.

[IsItStillThere]

Pretty much every strategy game needs a pretty big tech tree and have sides be underdeveloped at the start.

Did shogun total war suffer from not having a tech tree? MTW? M2TW? Not in my opinion.

Total War games aren't meant to be "civilization". To me, they should be: Here is a historically realistic sandbox. Go change history.

[Melvish]

Yeah, I took a look at all the unit rosters using the play battle mode. It looked at first like France has a lot of unique units, then I compared their roster to Britain's, and it seems like CA just gave them their French names in the English version to sound "different". :laugh4:



Yes it is a vaillaint effort from CA but some of those french name made me laugh. It is not Coureur de bois" but "Coureur DES bois". Also "Bataillion de petit-vieux"? I was like lol!! a Regiment a cripple old men!

It is nice that the unit properly use their native language properly this time, i like my game with Prussia where the orders are actually bark out in German, quite immersive. It really add up to the game play.

[Meneldil]

The thing is you'd research about four technologies the entire game. To get the naval tech tree to any sort of size they had to change things a little.


Well, actually, I think the 18th century was one of technological and ideological improvement. I'm pretty sure CA could have come up with interesting tech trees without going back one century earlier.

As someone said, the fact you could get Triarii only a few years before reaching Marius reforms in RTW was stupid as hell, and so is the fact huge Empire such as Britain and France start out with a few outdated ships and ridiculously small armies.

[Sheogorath]

I'm a bit dissapointed that uniforms dont update as the game goes on. I guess that's a lot of modeling work, but still, they managed it with MTW2.

I, for one, thing tricorns look silly. Especially with everybody wearing them. What happened to the variety of silly hats (And uniforms!) we saw in the early screenshots?

I demand silly hats! :hairpin2:

[ArtillerySmoke]

I'm a bit dissapointed that uniforms dont update as the game goes on. I guess that's a lot of modeling work, but still, they managed it with MTW2.

I, for one, thing tricorns look silly. Especially with everybody wearing them. What happened to the variety of silly hats (And uniforms!) we saw in the early screenshots?

I demand silly hats! :hairpin2:

That was armor that improved over time visually in M2TW. As you upgraded it, it would be reflected visually.

It wouldn't apply here. I doubt equipment and appearance of troops changed too much from 1701-1800.

[Swoosh So]

Thanks for the video quickening :)

Ill probably buy the game based on your video of the campaign looks huge and very detailed. Will you be doing a full review?

[Quickening]

Thanks for the video quickening :)

Ill probably buy the game based on your video of the campaign looks huge and very detailed. Will you be doing a full review?

Yeah at some point in the near future but Highlander comes out later this month and there are a couple of other games I'd like to cover first :yes:

[andrewt]

Did shogun total war suffer from not having a tech tree? MTW? M2TW? Not in my opinion.

Total War games aren't meant to be "civilization". To me, they should be: Here is a historically realistic sandbox. Go change history.


Building requirements were the tech tree in previous Total War games. It took forever to upgrade to the top line castles, armores, stables, etc. You couldn't build your top soldiers early on in any campaign.

200 turns using the same type of weapons and units would be boring. I like the progression of starting out each campaign with smaller battles that get bigger as the game progresses.

[Nelson]

I'm a bit dissapointed that uniforms dont update as the game goes on. I guess that's a lot of modeling work, but still, they managed it with MTW2.


Do we know for certain that a unit’s uniform never changes at all in game? Most grenadier caps disappeared by the end of the 18th century IIRC. And long trousers began to supplant knee breeches. So CA had a rationale to included updated skins had they wanted.

The armor and weapon changes were excellent in M2:TW. True, the new skins do represent tech upgrades but the graphic work was done just the same and could have been done for Empire too.

[ArtillerySmoke]

Building requirements were the tech tree in previous Total War games. It took forever to upgrade to the top line castles, armores, stables, etc. You couldn't build your top soldiers early on in any campaign.

200 turns using the same type of weapons and units would be boring. I like the progression of starting out each campaign with smaller battles that get bigger as the game progresses.

Same...

The gradual ascent leading to the climactic battles near the end of a campaign are what it's all about.

[Sheogorath]

Do we know for certain that a unit’s uniform never changes at all in game? Most grenadier caps disappeared by the end of the 18th century IIRC. And long trousers began to supplant knee breeches. So CA had a rationale to included updated skins had they wanted.

The armor and weapon changes were excellent in M2:TW. True, the new skins do represent tech upgrades but the graphic work was done just the same and could have been done for Empire too.

There's no difference between units in the 'late' and 'early' Skirmish battles, and (as far as I can tell) experience doesn't affect uniforms.

And yeah, by the end of the 1700's I dont think ANY sensible state had their troopers wearing tricorns. That'd be like a modern German soldier wearing a pickelhauber into battle.

There were some states, though, that retained the old Grenadier mitre caps in special functions, though. The Russians, especially, let the Pavlovsk Grenadiers (who I have so often mentioned :P) keep their mitre caps up until WWI! Some of their men were wearing caps that went back to the battle of Friedland up until 1917.

Anyway...:focus:

I just hope somebody comes out with a uniform mod. I like the later period uniforms more, myself.

[IsItStillThere]

Building requirements were the tech tree in previous Total War games.

Yeah, but the pure tech tree is a new feature. So why not start the tech tree at a historically accurate level? Its arbitrary anyway, so why not let history be the guide? It seemed about right in MTW and M2TW, you were starting in the dark ages (1100's) and your starting units seemed to reflect that. So why pretend that the foremost navies of the world in 1700 had nothing larger than a frigate just for the sake of making the tech tree deeper? If your making a history-destroying design decision like that, you better be getting a heck of a lot more benefit than just a few more techs to research.

I really don't see why CA couldn't come up with a perfectly reasonable tech tree starting from the actual technology available to each faction in 1700!

[Fookison]

Argh!!!!!!!
I have been reading all these posts within the forum for the past few days since you players have gotten your games and low and behold I got a call from the local EB Games that my pre-ordered special forces edition had arrived this AM. Rushed out from work and picked it up and now am sitting at my desk at work looking at the box and wishing that it was 5PM so I could dash home, do the install and drool over the new game. However, somehow the clock seems to be ticking ever so slow right now..........Only 3.5 more hours!!!!! Tick, tick, tick...................

[Oleander Ardens]

@quickening: nice review

[A Very Super Market]

If you start from the actual technologies researched at the time, there would be about 5 that weren't researched yet.

I don't find it fun to be able to build all your best units, and destroy everybody in an hour. If England had its historic navy, wealth, and army in the period, we as actual people would easily blitz the map.

[Gaiseric]

First Impressions: I am Extremley Happy!!! After seeing the computer games indusry, for years and years, dumb down its games for younger adiances with attention spans of goldfish, its great to see that CA can make a game, taking into account the suggestions of its veteren players, to be worthy of previous TW titles. When I saw the Intro I literally wept. Total War, Totally Awesome!!!:elephant:

[Tartantyco]

-I was confused at first and didn't know what to do with my gentlemen for about 20 turns... The manual is a little shy on details but I've been able to figure most things out by now. The few things that annoy me is the bugged cannons(Unlimbering and facing the wrong way, won't limber if you switch ammo and try to limber, mess up their positions when grouped with other units, ignore Halt and Limber orders when grouped, and refuse to fire at times.), the AIs constant trade requests offering me techs and money for a province every other turn. The next offer is usually techs and I have to pay them to give them my province... /facepalm. Seriously, the AI shouldn't ask for provinces unless at war.

[ArtillerySmoke]

After 2 days, I finally got down to unwrapping my Special Forces Edition.

Best packed TW yet. Gorgeous and sturdy box, world map, tech tree map (seperate maps), History Channel's Volume 1 of "The Revolution", Rome Total War Gold for free, booklet that contains "The Art of Empire Total War", 6 exotic units included on my disc, a pamphlet containing pictures of the 6 exotic units along with basic descriptions of each...etc.

About to watch the History Channel DVD on my PC :yes:

p.s. - This was $69.99 (US dollars). Not bad.

[Polemists]

I think it also goes back to visuals as far as the Tech tree goes.

I mean think about it, if you start with first rates what would you upgrade to? First rate with a few more guns? That may be exciting as a historical but the average player (not a historian) would not enjoy that. They'd rather start with small little frigate navies and then later on when the finally get the ship of line have alot ooohing and aahhing about how much different it looks.

As for uniforms, i'm sure they will mod it, but as it is there are a few who can barely run game as is, i'm sure they didn't want to increase the graphics requirements anymore (if that would have)

It also could have just been a time thing, every company has to make cuts, and maybe uniforms were one of those, since it's not part of gameplay (which still needs a little to alot of tweaking depending on who you listen to):2thumbsup:

[Tartantyco]

-Okay, I'm currently at 1774 and it's takes 6 minutes from when I first click end turn to I regain control for the next turn. That's getting annoying...

[A Very Super Market]

You haven't played EB, have you?

I'm used to waiting for a while, and I don't really mind it.

[thurjack_mahr]

Regarding the earlier post about England and France being Maritime partners yet not starting with large fleets:

Remember, this is a video game abstraction where units have upkeep costs, so implementing larger navies would lead to being such a great burden on your fledgling treasury as to bankrupt you immediately were you to actually start with that many ships. I think they did a good job of providing maritime powers with adqueate naval facilities. Trying to rescale the game to allow for larger starting navies would tip the economy - if you try to adjust it the other way, the player only has to disband the huge starting navy and will have a massive cash influx of coin normally set aside for upkeep of naval units.

[Subotan]

You haven't played EB, have you?

I'm used to waiting for a while, and I don't really mind it.

Right on, brother.
In the meantime whilst waiting, you could do something useful, like lift weights. (Heh, "weighting")

[crpcarrot]

wow i really cant believe there are so many complainers here already, its amazing how people wnat the game to exactly to their own preferences and say its a bad game if its not lol

i am pretty amazed by this game and ive been playing since STW and so far the all the game systems are new and seem very interesting diplomacy,policy,governmet wow i still dont know how these things work exactly and it really fun learning.

i took the advice of some on here and started my campaign on hard difficulty and the AI seems pretty good. admittedly most of the battles i fought so far i have been outnubered but the AI have showen pretty goos tactical AI for example

in one battle they sent a couple of units right up to my line and made me engage in melee while i was dealing with that some units had flanked me and taken cover over the wall

in another battle the ai held back till i adcvanced and when my general was vunerable sent cavalry units right at him. they use the cover very well to get units that can hide use all the cover available and in this battle its had kept a nice reserve of about 4 units. i routed about another 10 units and didnt relaise there were 4 units left was going to finish off the general when these 4 units pring out of hiding. my depleted units couldnt handle the fresh reserves who charged me down to finish me off.

of course i havent still adapted to this form of fighting just not used to seeing so many units just stand facng eachother and shot each other feels wrong lol

[Suraknar]

My First impressions are Good for the most part.

I really enjoy the changes on the Strategic map, the new building system as well.

Of course, Naval battles are just great!

The AI needs some work and so is Path-finding, some few tweaks and fixes here and there as well.

But other than that I am having a blast so far :)

I did the complete Road to Independence Campaign so far, and that is as good as First impressions Can go.

For the Future I can see this TW having many possibilities, expansions couls actually add more theaters in this new Map system, I foresee an expansion that can take us all the way to Napoleonic era, but I would love if it can just combine with the main Campaign and add more units and technologies permitting the game to evolve up to maybe 1850 or so Technologically and the game ending in 1899 for the sake of playing a while with Napoleonic era techs...19th century is tough many technological breakthroughs that could unbalance the game, the end of the age of sail the advent of ironclads and steam engine etc may complicate things too a bit.

Yet TW series for me has always been about being able to reshape history somewhat, while starting with a Historical setting.

We shall see what the future holds, I can see however with this new engine many countless fun Hours of play, and hoping about the multiplayer campaign as well.

(now going to start my first grand Campaign) Cheers!