View Full Version : Diplomacy / Trade
Liberator
03-06-2009, 23:33
:help:
Even so that I know in Empire now how much the other nations like (or more likely hate) me, it still puzzles me how to do it properly.
I'm playing with the Dutch, 1937 on Campaign VH Battle H, my government type is republic (which is quite disadventageous in diplomacy, but I want to keep it), my only trade partners are UK and Prussia
I get a lot of trade offers every turn (France, Spain Russia, sometimes Sweden), but they only offer trade agreements in exchange for regions (which I want to keep and sometimes need to win like Ceylon or Dutch Guyana) :furious3:
Any counteroffer/offer is rejected, even if I offer them a lot of technologies, so that they would be strongly favored in the deal :no:
Sir Beane
03-06-2009, 23:54
:help:
Even so that I know in Empire now how much the other nations like (or more likely hate) me, it still puzzles me how to do it properly.
I'm playing with the Dutch, 1937 on Campaign VH Battle H, my government type is republic (which is quite disadventageous in diplomacy, but I want to keep it), my only trade partners are UK and Prussia
I get a lot of trade offers every turn (France, Spain Russia, sometimes Sweden), but they only offer trade agreements in exchange for regions (which I want to keep and sometimes need to win like Ceylon or Dutch Guyana) :furious3:
Any counteroffer/offer is rejected, even if I offer them a lot of technologies, so that they would be strongly favored in the deal :no:
The AI factiosn really don't seem to appreciate technology, but boy do they love their region swaps. I eventually started taking regions I didn't want specifically so I could use them as diplomacy bartering chips.
The AI hates to accept technology and they hate to give you technology.
You can offer all your technology for a region and they reject you without a blink, but, you can request one piece of technology and they want 60,000 from you for it.
Though, what was really annoying was in one game, the AI kept wanting me to trade with them, but I have to pay them 10,000, and the thing was, I get more money declining as their trade route was being pirated so I lose out on the money I would have got with them.
Hm. I wonder if they've built a "no tech trading with the Hooman" bias into the game to prevent the sort of tech trading which made various versions of Civ too easy for humans who mastered it. Conversely, the more the AI tech trades among themselves, the more challenging the GC would be. Not the kind of feature I like, but it'd make sense.
Give a state gift to get them to like you more and then you can get trade agreements. Playing as Prussia in 1750 or so I have 10-15 trade partners which brings in like 15k a turn. I also had to pay 1000-2000 for some of the arrangements, but that easily pays itself back in 1-2 turns.
I also got Bavaria and Wurtemburg to become my protectorates by paying them 2000.
pevergreen
03-07-2009, 03:01
Give a state gift to native americans and they will become protectorates.
I havent ever had the AI ask for a province.
The Russians offered to trade me (Sweden) Karelia for Ingria on the first turn, which was either quite intelligent or part of an opening script. I counteroffered an alliance instead and they accepted, which proved rather fortunate when Courland zanily attacked me a turn later, which might otherwise have dragged in the Courland-Commonwealth-Russian alliance. As it was the Russians joined and the Commonwealth didn't.
In my last Russian game. I had Prussia keep wanting to swap my Courtland region for their East Prussia.
A Very Super Market
03-07-2009, 06:28
I think the problem is that the AI doesn't really hold any regions as special....
I mean, even though East Prussia isn't the most important region in Prussia, without it the name Prussia would be ridiculous. But the AI is fine with that. Same with trading Lithuania as PL for some stupid little region.
East Prussia is worth more as a Region as well, this is what really confused me.
I only declined their offer, when even they threw like 1100 money in it, just because the idea of the trade in reality is stupid.
A Very Super Market
03-07-2009, 06:40
Oh yes, that too.
Polemists
03-07-2009, 07:35
Well I think this goes back to AI prorities.
I think in the last game the fact you could never get a province from anyone, even if you tossed 60,000 florins, 50,000 florins per turn, and every city you owned, was pretty bad.
Of course now the converse is true, where it seems like your getting vital provinces for nothing (or for less vital provinces at any rate)
I'm sure this sounded good in theory considering the colonies.
You give me whatever in India and I give you whatever in Carribean, etc, etc.
However when it comes to mainland europe, so much of it defines the very nation that plays it. (United Provinces offering Amsterdamn for instance), that the AI probably does not differentiate beyond Capital and not a capital.
Just a thought.
quadalpha
03-07-2009, 08:03
I don't think you can offer or demand a capital, right?
Polemists
03-07-2009, 08:13
I don't own the game but it has been standard practice in most games of TW that you can offer up all provinces but a capital. To prevent Ai from doing so I guess.
Again i'm sure the province trading sounded good when we consider the colonies , but clearly the AI does not differentiate between the value of Southern Louisana and Southern Prussia (In symbolism) as much as it does in economics :laugh4:
A Very Super Market
03-07-2009, 08:28
You can't offer capitals.
Really, I wish there was a way to take over a nation peacefully. Without a stupid siege where I lose veterans to the mobs...
Polemists
03-07-2009, 08:33
Really, I wish there was a way to take over a nation peacefully. Without a stupid siege where I lose veterans to the mobs...
I'm sure England thought the same thing about 50-100 years before this time frame :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
A Very Super Market
03-07-2009, 08:42
No, really. I just hate how there are protectorates, but they aren't considered part of your empire!
Then I just have to conquer them again, and all this trouble.
Polemists
03-07-2009, 08:47
Well Protectorates arn't meant to be part of your empire, they are meant to be more similar to a sub nation or secondary.
I mean think about Prussia and France during Napolean. It was true that Prussia was a protectorate of France, yet when Napolean lost France he didn't suddenly go, "Oh but I still own Prussia."
You don't really own protectorates, it's more like a defensive alliance.
I am more powerful then you, you give me stuff when I demand it, and I in turn offer your protection.
At least that should be the idea. Yet much like a colony, there is no requirement that they must, they can revolt, uprise and turn against you.
I can't see anyone giving up there nation for technology.
Though finances perhaps, Luxenburg after all was a wedding gift :laugh4::laugh4:
A Very Super Market
03-07-2009, 08:51
Hahah :D
Anyways, you aren't getting my point. I want an option in the diplomacy screen that will turn a faction over to me. Simple as that. I mean, I destroy your armies completely, raided all your settlements, and the only way I can conquer you is a siege?
I want a "We surrender and you are great" option.
Polemists
03-07-2009, 09:07
I though I read in the campaign guide that there was a option this time where if you surrounded a town you could ask them to surrender without a fight?
Fridgebadger
03-07-2009, 14:07
Is there an option (similar to M2 and Rome (I think)), to offer something and ask what they want in return? Ie, 'I want your tech, what do you want in return?'
pevergreen
03-07-2009, 14:10
Simply offering the deal will sometimes get a counter offer.
Yes polemists, there is that option, I havent been able to get it to work though, maybe because they beat me half the time I siege them...
Rhyfelwyr
03-07-2009, 14:16
As Britain, I managed to trade Prussia two technologies for one in return. However I have been finding it very difficult to swap technologies with other faction which I don't have such great relations with.
In that respect, trade right seem to be great for keeping good relations with factions.
Liberator
03-07-2009, 15:45
Give a state gift to get them to like you more and then you can get trade agreements. Playing as Prussia in 1750 or so I have 10-15 trade partners which brings in like 15k a turn. I also had to pay 1000-2000 for some of the arrangements, but that easily pays itself back in 1-2 turns.
I also got Bavaria and Wurtemburg to become my protectorates by paying them 2000.
I tried giving state gifts and they had a huge effect in increasing the attitudes towards me, but still, they do not accept trade agreements. :wall:
I even was offered by Sweden to give them Hannover for some tech, my counteroffer was the same + trade agreements, and they refused saying:
"I Cannot agree that our two nations need to trade, sir, for trade implies some kind of equality of worth" :thumbsdown:
I think there is need for a forced diplomacy mod!
Polemists
03-07-2009, 15:46
"I Cannot agree that our two nations need to trade, sir, for trade implies some kind of equality of worth
Wow....that's just mean...go beat them up some...then they will be much more willing to give you stuff. Or so I hear :laugh4:
pevergreen
03-07-2009, 15:47
I had them say that when they were much weaker than me...I thought they were just saying how great I was.
I have played as both sweeden and the United Provinces (both on H/H). I have found it was much easier to get new trade agreements as sweeden then as the UP. I think this might be because the UP have so many items to trade I think the computer knows I am getting the much better end of the bargain and don't want me getting such a big advantage.
It could also be the forms of government and no one wants to trade with a republic.
Additionally the bug I reported on trade ships not working for sweeden does not apply to the UP.
Mister V
03-07-2009, 21:46
Pfft. Poland keeps offering me agricultural technologies in exchange for Ukraine, Crimea or Bulgaria. Like I would really accept:inquisitive:
It could also be the forms of government and no one wants to trade with a republic.
I am playing as the United Provinces and at the year 1718 or so I'm making 18k a turn from trade with 6 or 7 nations. Offering a state gift followed by trade rights and a 1000 payment or so works on almost any nation. The large nations you will get back 2-4k a turn so the investment is well worth the price.
Rhyfelwyr
03-07-2009, 23:32
Is there any way to tell how much you get from trade rights with a certain nation?
A Very Super Market
03-08-2009, 00:05
Press G, or click the government button.
In the information screen, there is a tab saying trade, and then you can see how much you get from certain nations.
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