hypothetical idea

[aem91]

I had an idea for a future RTW or EB. Hard coded limits set aside since it would be for a new game, would it make sense for unit recruitment to be based on ethnicity. What I mean is, lets say there is a city with 10,000 population. The city is Antioch, just for kicks. So, what I thought might be cool is if instead of saying 10k, it would say Greeks: 3000, Syrians: 6000, Jews: 1000 and so on and so forth. So maybe you might have to lump some ethnic groups together for simplicity, but I think it would add interest. So there may be 30 or so ethnic groups.

For example, training a unit of silver shield pikes would require 240 out of the 3000 greeks, and so every unit would have an ethnic group attached to it. Some, like native pikes, might have several, in which case it just draws from the most numerous pool. And maybe there could be reforms to increase what kind of ethnicites could be attached to each unit.

I think this would add interest because the successor states would have limited amounts of Greeks in their empires, and therefore wouldnt want to throw them away needlessly. And as their greek poplulation dwindled, maybe the reforms mentioned above would allow pikes to be recruited from some of the rich native classes. Buildings and other things could be built to influence each ethnic poplulation growth (ie colonies, incentives etc)

And one more thing, the population of the example city would still say 10,000. But, maybe when you went to settlement deatails then it would tell you breakdown of population by ethnicity.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to know what others thought of this idea and if its been mentioned before. Thanks

[Onehandstan]

I like the idea but how would you affect the rates of which each ethnicity expands? Would it be different rates or all the same? Perhaps different ethnic groups could also affect different parts of the city? like say more barbarians means better farming (or something). What about upper and lower classes?

[A Very Super Market]

Hm... that sounds like a good idea, but you obviously can't limit units to certain ethnicities, as the Romans proved otherwise.

[Nachtmeister]

Then again, the hellenes *did* limit admission to the elite units to their lower-end and upper-end *aristocracy*, right? (Deuteroi, Pezhetairoi, Hetairoi, all units firmly associated with the military settlements, no?) So it was not unit *types* alltogether, but the pantodapoi were just not their best troops. An entirely different deal with Baktria and their Eugeneis Hoplitai of course...

[aem91]

Well here is an example. The Macedonian Silver Shields could only be recruited with hellens. The Roman Legions may have 10 or more ethnicities attached to it. (Celts, egyptians, greeks, etc etc) to represent their flexibility. Klerouchi pikemen may have multiple as well like syrians, galatians, hellenes etc. These are just some ideas.

Also to build upon this I think each ethnicity should have their own population growth. For egypt the macedonian population there could be increased by providing land grants.

You could even extend this system to animals. If Antioch only had 50 elephants, with a population growth of 1 percent, then they would indeed be a rarity on the battlefield without jacking the price up. Steppe factions could have high horse population growth too.

[SwissBarbar]

AWESOME IDEA!!!!!!


Though I don't think it can be implemeted, IF it could be, I would marry you immediately for having had this idea. Here, have a balloon :balloon2:

Question: What if you disbanded a unit of 240 elite phalangitai in a region that has no greek population yet. How many Greeks would you have in your town then? 240? 500 (incl. their families)? Would they mix with other ethnicities?

Would different ethnicities have a negative effect on public order? At least for the first 5 years or so. Imagine 10'000 Celts and 500 Romans in 1 city, that the Romans have conquered a turn ago. Would a garrison of units of other ethnicities have an effect on public order? And finally: if you implemet 10 ethnicities on 1 unit, say the Roman Legionnaire: How would the game decide from which ethtnicity the new legions have to be recruited? The one with the greatest populace? Or could you choose? Thinking @ EB II : Would they look different?

[chairman]

This is a great idea. I have had similar ideas for games I would like to design myself (far future).

I would like to add another layer: wealth. Not only should recruitment be based on ethnicity, but also on how rich the population is. For instance, a unit of akontistai could be recruited from just about any wealth category and multiple ethnicities (Hellene, Thrakioi, etc), while a unit of Hippeis could only be recruited from the rich nobility of the Hellenes. The same for most other units. This might be harder to track, but almost as important.

Chairman

[Nachtmeister]

Nice Idea - but then, why not also implement a more detailed industry... Can't field masses of legionaries in lorica segmentata without first developing some kind of arms factory, right? And all those sarissae also need very skilled craftsmen (try cutting a five-meter-polearm out of the next best oak tree yourself)...
I think this is heading towards a crossover of the Total War series with the Caesar series with (maybe) the Civilization series.
Thus, it is apparently no longer a discussion about *mod-ing* but rather about creating something new from scratch... Wait for six years and then I will get back to you after I have learned how to do professional application programming. :dizzy2::book:
Really not bad though - it would take strategy games to a whole new dimension.
The "view settlement on battle map" concept would now be used differently - you would set up your own walls, maybe even change the terrain to a certain extent (at huge costs, compare to the pyramids of Gizeh), place buildings and micro-manage imports, exports, government, education (in case of the hellenes, basically the ephebeia) and INTEGRATION of different ethnicities (conquered Sarmiszegethusa as KH, now what? Make them helots or make them loyal citizens of your empire, but if you are not careful, the Athenians you moved here will not get along with them, resulting maybe even in ethnicity-based riots...).
The problem with this however is that it will most likely be impossible to find a producer for this kind of thing because the amount of careful consideration necessary to advance in such a game (as the player!) would make it a bit more than a hobby/not suitable for working adults... But it would definitely justify being called Nu_Rome: TOTAL Realism, apart from the fact that now you would be able to deviate VERY far from actual history (wtf, you founded a Sabaean city in Wales??) :laugh4:

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Unfortunately, the degree of moddability that the community can achieve with ordinary TW games has never been exceptionally high compared to many other mainstream games, and given the new ETW release it probably never will.

So this would take an entirely new game, and sadly the wonderful efficiency of the open source industry does not reach the gaming market, which is essentially limited to what a few powerful companies have in their interests. And more often than not, it is in their best interests that modding is kept to a very strict or otherwise non-existent degree.