Sphere(s) of Influence

[Ms.Information]

hi,

i had this wonderful mak campaign going, crushed the greek rebellion, evicted the epirotes from greece to italy (where they went on a rampage) conquered parts of thrace and the went on to claim byzantium. this however pissed of the seleucids big time. they declared on me and could not be persuaded to back off, not by force of arms, not by gifts, not by forced diplomacy (cease fire lasted one turn only).

i had to restart the game, as makdonian armies indeed are invincible but makdonian soldiers unfortunately neither immortal nor inexpensive.

so i'll leave byzantium alone, but where else does the selecid sphere of influence extend? or the roman one for that matter? is it safe to take rhodes for example?

[Aemilius Paulus]

There is no concrete "sphere of influence". It depends. Look at how much the Grey Death has already conquered. Rhodes is an island. I doubt they will go after it. Byzantium, however, seems to be close enough, especially if they have already exterminated Pontus.

I suggest you take on Western expansion in your next campaign. Stamp out those Romani. They should not be difficult in the earlier stages. Do some long term planning. make some spies and assassins, leave them for some time in cities with very large markets, and they will become pretty decent. Then send them to the troop-producing romani cities to constantly sabotage those barracks. Then, after five years of that, send in your armies. Or attack them outright if they are weak enough. Also, do not forget to blockade their ports.

Another words, by all means possible. Just avoid AS. They are always the most difficult faction to handle. And going West early, before the Romani rise up high will be very much beneficial. Conquer the West (most important: Italia; after that, North Africa or Iberia will be nice) and then move on to AS. But this time, get at least five full stacks of elites ready. And do not be afraid to make a lot of cavalry. In fact, you can make all cavalry and HA armies. Those are great against AS phalanxes. Seriously, those phalanxes are the best units for rear cavalry charges. Their rears have been made for that. So charge them. Heroic victories will rain upon you.

[A Very Super Market]

You could have taken the AS. They aren't hard, its a bit like fighting yourself. As for their sphere of influence, it shold only be the middle of Asia Minor plus Byzantium. Rhodes is KH territory, so you could take it easy. The Romans should have control over most of Italy, except for Taras.

[Nachtmeister]

I think he meant the spere of EXPANSION, not influence...

Dunno, look up the AS victory conditions. I believe they include your annihilation, so it doesn't really matter where you go - but Byzantion was THE ideal bottleneck to choke off any AS invaders! If this doesn't work or proves unsatisfactory (siege battles every round can get frustrating even if you are winning) try moving into AS territory with a full stack and raid their recriutment hubs. Priority targets: Sardis, Ipsos, Ankyra, Antiocheia, Seleukeia. You could get some ships (but use powerful ones so as not to get sunk on the way) and SAIL to Antiocheia (much faster). It is usually not very well defended in the early game or after one of the two eastern Hellene empires has gained the upper hand over Syria. Just raze every building ('xcept wonders) and if you have a selfish general for the job, kill the population off or otherwise enslave them. Careful with that: Slaves transfer instantly to those cities with a governor in them. So if you have public order issues in a city, make shure there is no governor inside there when you click the "expel" button after a conquest.

The Romans are supposed to build a world empire, remember...? But yes, they have a preferred area to invade first: Gaul. They will, however, quickly also expand to Illyria. Fighting them is inevitable. Try sailing a full stack across the adriatic, raid Roma and Capua, maybe Ariminum too - their main recruitment bases. Then they should be easy pickings... But do this before 250BC, otherwise it will not make that much difference except that you would be fighting their full stacks of regionals from western Europe instead of mixtures of principes, triarii and pedites extraordinarii. Note that you will not get hysteroi pezhetairoi this way because Roma and Capua have to grow into huge cities for the march of time to happen.

Oh and for the fun's sake, don't ever use elite full stacks - I can imagine nothing more boring and pointless. Especially with makedonia - why not just take the world by force diplomacy, do a lot of process_cq, add_money, create_unit, and then proudly present a screenshot of world domination by 272BC (spring)...? Use lower-level units for the masses, elites only as elites and you will still be winning rather easily with Makedonia...

Here's a cavalry heavy, largely elite but not entirely ridiculous full stack army befitting the Basileus himself:

1x General
1x Hetairoi
1x Lonchophoroi Hippeis
1x Hetairoi Aspidophoroi
1x Prodromoi
1x Hippakontistai
1x Hypaspistai
1x Argyraspides
2x Pezhetairoi
2x Hoplitai
2x Thureophoroi
1x Peltastai Makedonikoi
1x Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi
2x Peltastai
1x Sphendonetai
1x Toxotai

Go any heavier (like 3x Argyraspides or the likes) and you have yourself an UBER army that will plough all the way through to Baktria without retraining... And DON'T use Phalangitai Deuteroi offensively; they were an emergency levy when their own fields were threatened by pillaging Thracians... Read their unit description carefully for why they were not sent on campaigns. Keep them as garrisons of your home cities - that way they can tend to their fields (RP) and are still *there* when someone decides to attack you on home turf.

[Africanvs]

After you've taken over Epeiros, Illyrica Hellenike, Athenai, and Sparte, I'd grab Rhodos, and Kydonia (great missle troops and trade income) Dalmatia, Illyrica Pannonia (Great mining income) and then I would sit and make money for a while. Keep the least number of troops in the field. Improve your lands and build those economic structures, especially mines. Grab Dardanoia and Ordrysai north of Pella as well, both have mines and are a good source of regionals. Waiting until the computer builds the mines can be helpful, otherwise they cost you 14k each yourself for the first tier. In my campaign, I kept the Seleukids happy with little tributes (100mnai per turn for 10 turns here, 200 mnai per turn for ten turns there.) I also gave them as a gift military assistance against their enemies like pontos or the ptolies. After you do this send a fleet up to blockade a port or send a small army to harass them. After doing all of this, I was able to take Byzantion without theSeleukids getting angry with me, or declaring war. Not sure if my gifts and tributes caused this or not. Sometimes as Mak when you attack Byzantion, the Pontics get mad at you. I always park a ship next to a place I want to conquer, or put an army in the province before attacking and yur advisor will warn you if there are implications. If you don't like he implications just call off the attack before you do it. I like to let Rome get powerful before I fight them, I think it's more fun that way. After you build up for a few turns you'll find you have he cash to support a couple of good sized armies. I usually look at the diplomatic situation and decide who to attack, or wait for someone to attack me and then retaliate. Italy, Asia Minor, the Bosphorus, the Ptolies, or the Getai are all options. Or you could do something crazy and sail an army down and destroy Carthage. Hehe, anything is possible.

[Ms.Information]

They aren't hard, its a bit like fighting yourself.

just read this the other way round, i'm insulted now :)


all of you are very helpful, thank you. my problems with the arche (at peace with everyone but me at the time) were not that i could not beat them in battle, but rather that there seemed to be an endless stream of armies coming from the east, strange men in strange clothes (and they smelled funnny, too). it was just like in these dreams where i stand naked and alone at thermopylae when the persians arrive and then my mother... but enough of that.

the biggest problem i face are the population levels in my cities. i'm doing what i can, but it'll take some time before the measures take effect. that's why i went into asia minor in the first place, the lands are populous (and of course to secure the pearl of the aegean: pergamon).
as for the phalangitai deuteroi; i am well aware of their proper usage. only tylis is left of the lands adjacent to me, once it falls i'll demobilize them. and few of them will return to till their fields, i can assure you that. all of makedonia is proud of them and they will be amply rewared for their service in the royal army.

the basic premise of my game is to establish a kind of Koinon Makedonike, to end the intra-greek wars once and for all and to unite all greece. greece in this plan naturally entails all places where greeks live. in the first stage i wanted to control all those places named in this frieze i found in athenai called "the wonder of the hellenes". unfortunately, byzantium, halikarnassos and probably even pergamon were already spoken for when i arrived...

as for the future, the oracle of zeus at dodone sent me a dream which was interpreted to mean that the romans will only be our friends and allies as long as they are weak. but still, i'm reluctant to be the one to attack. the getai to the north are just barbarians and seem to involved in some kind of religious ritual, for they do nothing sensible at all. (rested two armies in dalmatia for like 30 turns in the first game, camp just outside naissos (?) without attacking in the second)

just now i received a very interesting proposal from my new athenian advisors: an expedition to sicily. seems very promising indeed.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

To put it simply, if you are doing well and border the AI, there is a good chance they are going to attack you. It doesn't matter if you are at war, neutral, or allied.

[Macilrille]

I will spell it out for you;

B-E-R-S-E-R-K A-I...

That is your problem in fact it is everybody's problem. The AI goes berserk and attack you. I have had allied Luso at 67% my strength, allied Carthage at 175% of my strength and allied AS at 250% of my srength all declare on me the same turn. None of them accepting peace at any terms... I am finally beating them, badly yet they still refuse peace.

[Ms.Information]

just to wrap up the original topic and answer my own question, here's a quick update.
my sicilian expedition was a success. it had distracted me from events in the east, were the kh took halikarnassos and pergamon. together maybe with pontos they did something to nikea which made it rebell and join me.

i kept nikea and captured pergamon and the seleucids did nothing. this time they were at war with most if not all of their neighbours except me. this clearly made the difference.
there are clearly defined spheres of influence in hearts of iron 2, the situation in the last game reminded me of that so i assumed eb had them too.
it seems however to be more trivial than that. if the ai has nothing else to do they might as well annihilate you. so next time i'll wait my turn and keep out of its way as long as i want peace.