Education level versus unemployment rate

[Hosakawa Tito]

While listening to a radio talk show, "Money Talk" hosted by Bob Brinker, on the ride home from work over the weekend, the host put out some compelling stats on the current unemployment rate versus one's education level. I spent some time googling the claims made on the show, but couldn't really find where he got his data from. So, for what it's worth, here it is:


Unemployment rate approx. - 9.0%
Unemployment rate of men with no college education - 12.6%
Unemployment rate of women with no college education - 9.6%
Unemployment rate of men with some college *no degree* - 9.1%
Unemployment rate of women with some college *no degree* - 8.0%
Unemployment rate of men with BA or better - 5.1%
Unemployment rate of women with BA or better - 4.6%
I have always advocated a college education to my children, nieces & nephews included. My first wife and I put our daughter through college and also aided two of my nieces. Now I'm working on my two step-children. The oldest is 16, and can't decide yet, whether or not to go to college.

If these numbers are anywhere near accurate, then a college education is one of the best investments one can make for themselves or family. Thoughts, comments ?

[CountArach]

This is why we need free higher education. A more educated workforce can only lead to higher paying jobs for everyone, as well as a more engaged citizenry.

[Banquo's Ghost]

This is why we need free higher education. A more educated workforce can only lead to higher paying jobs for everyone, as well as a more engaged citizenry.

The truth of that statement depends entirely on the kind of education.

For example, Tony Blair's government spent extraordinary sums in the UK on trying to ensure everyone has a degree. Unfortunately, this has meant that not only are qualifying examinations (GCSEs) so debased that my cat could pass one with distinction, but vast swathes of the populace have a Media Studies degree as a result of three years of cutting out newspaper commentary about David Beckham.

It goes without saying that employers completely disregard the educational achievements of applicants with said first degrees and their equally meaningless kin.

A college (university) education has to be of a high standard. It's a sad fact of life that when you have to pay for something, you tend to value it and make sure you choose the course that will actually give one a return.

[CountArach]

A college (university) education has to be of a high standard. It's a sad fact of life that when you have to pay for something, you tend to value it and make sure you choose the course that will actually give one a return.
As an Arts student who could well have qualified for economics/business with a bit of effort, I tend to disagree :laugh4:

[Furunculus]

agreed with BG, the nu-lab method of social engineering set an artificial target of 50% of school leavers going to to university, and the way it was implemented was to encourage GCSE/A-Levels to be debased, and to encourage universities to create easy degrees which has created an artificial surplus if media graduates and lowered the value perception of everyone elses degrees in the eyes of employers.

[rory_20_uk]

Here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article5907465.ece) is an interesting article.

Whilst the politicians are saying that GCSEs and A levels are great and trying to drown out Academia and Industry who both say otherwise, looks like some are going for one of the few Gold Standard qualifications left. You either leave at 18/19 with a BSc / BA and do a MSc / MB BS / PhD at University proper, or go straight into a job.

Employment for GPs is looking interesting at the moment - at a career fair they kept saying how things will improve in a few years...

With education the best asset one has is the ability to work abroad and go for the international Good Jobs and not chase the now migrant poorly skilled ones.

~:smoking:

[naut]

As an Arts student who could well have qualified for economics/business with a bit of effort, I tend to disagree :laugh4:
As a Business/IT student who could have qualified for Law or Medicine or something equally outrageous, I tend to say you should do what you love. :bow:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Arach:

Would you please desist from using the term "free" when you mean "taxpayer funded."

TANSTAAFL is a basic truth of existence.


Banquo:

Excellent point about the value of a degree. Here in the USA, having a college degree -- in and of itself -- means little and generally provides you with only an "as expected" response from a potential employer. Of course, the absence of a degree has quite a chilling effect on many employment possibilities.

[TinCow]

I don't know the unemployment rates, but I've seen the average income based on education levels cited numerous times:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/p16.html

To summarize, the average income in 2007 by education level is:

Overall: $37,828
Less than 9th Grade: $16,625
9th to 12th Grade (No Diploma): $20,643
High School Graduate (Includes Equivalency): $31,337
Some College, No Degree: $37,447
Associate Degree: $43,006
Bachelor's Degree: $56,826
Master's Degree: $71,097
Professional Degree: $100,000
Doctorate Degree: $86,171

Basically, the more education you get, the higher your salary. The only exception is with a Doctorate, and that is because many PhDs go into education, which tends to pay less.

[lars573]

Thoughts, comments ?
University isn't for everyone. I never went to one and am glad I didn't.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

This is why we need free higher education. A more educated workforce can only lead to higher paying jobs for everyone, as well as a more engaged citizenry.

This at a time (at least in the US) where we have too many people going to college, and there are a good percentage who simply are wasting their time there.

[KukriKhan]

For what's worth (and it's probably only temporary) here in SoCal, we have 70 applicants (including degreed IT's, lawyers, MBAs & financiers) chasing every retail sales job available. LA Times had pictures of the long lines last week.

So, although more ed = more $$$ generally, in hard times, sometimes the lower-education-but-steadier jobs prevail.

[TinCow]

For what's worth (and it's probably only temporary) here in SoCal, we have 70 applicants (including degreed IT's, lawyers, MBAs & financiers) chasing every retail sales job available. LA Times had pictures of the long lines last week.

So, although more ed = more $$$ generally, in hard times, sometimes the lower-education-but-steadier jobs prevail.

It's like that where I work as well. I work for a federal administrative law court, and we employ about 250-300 attorneys. Normally we take applicants from the lower first tier law schools, and no previous work experience was necessary (though it did help with your starting salary). The legal industry has taken a massive hit over the last 6-8 months though and pretty much no firms are hiring and many have been laying off their associates as well. The result is that our court now has at least 10 Ivy League law school grads with several years of firm experience applying for every single position we have open. It's ironic that I don't know a single person who's already working here who could actually get a job here under the current circumstances. I feel really, really bad for people who are graduating in 2009. They are pretty much guaranteed unemployment unless they start up their own firm.

[seireikhaan]

Quite simply, education has to be earned, in my view. Now, obviously, as a current UNI student, I would adore any help I can get financially. There has to be an incentive to obtain the degree, from both the employer's perspective as well as the employee's. "Free" education means no incentive. Partially subsidized education is the best route, in my view. Anyone should be able to obtain a university education; that doesn't mean they won't have to pay for it at some point.(loans)

[Major Robert Dump]

If I could do it all over again I certainly would not have bought an overpriced Journalism Degree from the University of Oklahoma who, 3 years after I graduated, renamed their journalism school to the name of the state media mogul whom every one of my journalism professors villified and demonized every chance they got. Now that'c comedy.


If I could do it over, I would actually go to a trade school, learn HVAC, then pick up an engineering or business degree in my spare time with all the mad money I made.

God forbid I ever have children, but some sort of post-high school education will be encouraged and necessary, although college in and of itself is optional. I'm really starting to think anymore unless you are talking Ivy League potential employers view giant university degrees and podunk community/state college degrees all the same. Schools like Pheonix University are a godsend for grownups who don't have the time, patience or money to spend 5 days a week at a traditional school.

One thing I'd like to see are figures of how many people finish their degree at the place they started. I know a lot of people start at community college for general ed and move up to bigger schools for the actual degree-related classes. I wonder how much of it goes the other way.

[Brenus]

I am for education.

Look, the crooks with education called bankers bought and sold so-called “intoxicated assets” they knew will explode one day and they got millions and bonuses.
But they are sorry.
The illiterate gangster attacking a bank and being caught with £/$/EURO 15,000 get 10 years.
But he will be sorry.

[KukriKhan]

... so-called “intoxicated assets”

Beautiful, Man. :thumbsup:

[Papewaio]

Cart before horse?

Isn't part of the reason employers employee higher educated people because they have proven that they have the ability to knuckle down and get the degree?

Not many degrees are direct to profession degrees (accounting, engineering and medicine to name the main ones). And not all direct to profession degrees have a 100% uptake of the graduates. Plenty of comedians in Aus with a Law degree. So a lot of workers out there have a degree with no direct correlation to their job, except that it shows an aptitude for hard work and smart thinking.

A 'free' degree in terms of being government subsidized and payed back once you earn over a certain threshold as the ones in Australia are pretty cool. I am the beneficiary of such a degree. There is a stigma in Aus for those who buy their place, the marks are lower to get in for such fee payers. So to get a degree here there is no need to join the military, or have rich parents, you just need to work hard and qualify.

[Mooks]

One of my friends doesnt have his high school diploma (He regrets it every day) cant even get a job at taco bell/mcdonalds. The manager at Dairy Queen actually laughed at the interview and said no thank you. Unless your in high school not even fast food restraunts will hire without a diploma/GED around here.

[Husar]

Well, that's a typical problem when there are more people looking for jobs than there are jobs.
Supply and demand, yadda, yadda, but I guess employers like it this way, I had to make test days for some simple jobs, I probably mentioned it before but my current employer says almost anybody can do the job, he just wants people who don't steal. I value that a lot, I think he is a nice and clever guy. :2thumbsup:

I might want to add that when you take some self-gratuitious college slimeball who thinks ahe/he is too good for your lowly blue collar work, I can see how the chance that she/he tries to slack off or work into her/his own pockets starts rising.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

cant even get a job at taco bell/mcdonalds. The manager at Dairy Queen actually laughed at the interview and said no thank you.

I know this person is a friend of yours, but based on the information you have given...

https://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6838/633325462873135493.jpg

[Mooks]

I know this person is a friend of yours, but based on the information you have given...

https://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6838/63332546287313549.jpg

Ya well, he regrets it alot. So much that I actually use him as a example when one of my pothead buddies rants about how school sucks and is about to drop out.

[Ice]

They are pretty much guaranteed unemployment unless they start up their own firm.

This can apply to all majors. I have a few friends at very highly rated institutions, with solid majors, who are graduating and cannot find a job.



One of my friends doesnt have his high school diploma (He regrets it every day) cant even get a job at taco bell/mcdonalds. The manager at Dairy Queen actually laughed at the interview and said no thank you. Unless your in high school not even fast food restraunts will hire without a diploma/GED around here.

Tell your friend to take the GED or European equivalent for a high school degree.

That really is shocking that micky ds requires a high school diploma to work. How hard can it be to cook fries and flip burgers?

Edit: Actually, since I've worked in fast food a few times, I can tell you. It isn't hard.

[Xiahou]

A college (university) education has to be of a high standard. It's a sad fact of life that when you have to pay for something, you tend to value it and make sure you choose the course that will actually give one a return.
In other words:
Something given has no value (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_urWSSZgwU). :beam:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Ya well, he regrets it alot. So much that I actually use him as a example when one of my pothead buddies rants about how school sucks and is about to drop out.

With utmost sincerity, however, can he take online highschool courses? I don't know what nation he resides in, but surely they are offered?

[Strike For The South]

Neither of my parents went to university and they demanded I go before I joined the service or pursued my dream of being a world class snipe hunter.

SO I went to Texas Tech.

[Don Corleone]

Good for you Strike.

Unfortunately, high-tech fields in the U.S. tend to be viciously competitive. We've had RIF's on the order of 26% (National Semiconductor) 7% (Nokia-Siemens) and Lord only knows how many Motorola people have been thrown to the wolves.

You're never "guaranteed" work. One thing every round of RIFs has taught me... even with the time in, the performance reviews, the portfolio and a master's degree in electrical engineering, I STILL have to prove I deserve a job, EVERY quarter. Frankly, I think it's why we're the healthiest sector.