My kindgom is so poor and dull.....

[AqD]

Hello guys!

It's my first serious campaign in EB - after reading all the greatness of this mod on forum for one year and taking great pain to test each releases (and always cancalled within 4 turns)..... Now the version 1.2 is finally playable to me.

So my pontus campaign began, VH/M difficulty with a few minor modding. So far I have just secured 5 cities - and 3 of them have mines! But I'm facing Seleucid and Ptolemaic (my dear ally - will backstab them anyway), and soon Epirus and Armenians.

My army is exclusively formed of the poor and dusty Pantodapoi Phalangitai, and my garrisons are all the cheapest Eastern Skirmishers who look like damn farmers. I have seen several better-equipped and units like Katpatuka Asabara and Klerouchoi Phalangitai available, but I CANNOT AFFORD ANY OF THEM. The economics is so crap, and ......

The worst part is: when I checked the stats of other units, I realized they're just good-looking & expensive and nothing else. The Klerouchoi Phalangitai for instance, cost almost twice the money but offer nothing but a few defense points. And the galatians are even worse by my own witness on the battlefield - one unit of naked galatian swordsmen (called Wild man or something like that) engaged my Phalangitai from behind, for more than 5 minutes, and it barely killed any of my soldiers but lost half of its own! EB has completely ruined my image of fearsome galatian warriors! (and for that I exterminated all galatians under my rule) :wall:


All right, here comes the real question: is there some other cost-effective unit that I can use in my early campaign? The kingdom needs to to be a bit more colorful but I have no money to waste for looking-good-only soldiers! :sweatdrop::shame:

[SwissBarbar]

the key is to make the enemy rout. Engage with superior force, attack with galatian wild men into the rear and shoot with burning arrows at him. That will make him run.

Btw: maybe for your first campaign you should try an easier faction, f.e. the Romans, and play on M/M? :hide:

[Africanvs]

There is a thread about starting with Pontos, but I will sum up. Using your starting armies right away to take the fight to the Seleukids can quickly give you control of Asia Minor. Once you have kicked them out and start to make some money, you can grab the Eleutheroi towns. After you have control of Asia Minor, you should be seeing some real profits coming in. Remember that for the first several years of expansion, while you're really getting going, only your cheapest troops are going to be available to you. After you have the military situation under control, try to spend a few years just working on your economy and keeping your lands safe from the enemy. As far as military units, remember that there are far more important things than just the base stats. You want to look at their discipline -- higher discipline = higher morale, whether they move fast, etc. Another thing to remember is that in EB, some units have armor-piercing weapons, like your Phalangitai Pantodopoi -- they have armor piercing axes when in melee. Galatians can be great flanking troops because they're swords are higher lethality. Also remember that spear armed troops have a -4 against infantry. At any rate, don't expect to have armies full of elites until you have a well establshed empire with lots of any. I personally only ever place a few elite units in each army, even if I can afford more because armies full of elites make the game too easy, and really isn't very realistic. Have fun!

Edit: By the way, take a look at the recruitment viewer. You can see some other provinces where you can get cool units, such as kinsman heavy cavaly in Hayasdan, bosphoran heavy archers in bosphorus, etc.

[Lovejoy]

Don't look youself blind at the "stats". The stats you can see in the game is only half the truth. Many of the stats is "hidden". You can't see them in-game.

and naked galatian swordsmen are truely fearsome. One of the best infantary units in the game.

[Hax]

Also, Pontos is really one of the hardest factions in the game. Perhaps you can better try Carthage or Rome first.


and naked galatian swordsmen is truely fearsome. One of the best infantary units in the game.

Absolutely nothing compared to Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi.

[SwissBarbar]

yeah, but they're elite. the Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi are better, but yet not as fearsome as the naked dudes. They rather make the enemy rout by the lenght of their unpronouncable name ( "Attack the Thraikioi Rhompi....Rhimpo...Rambo.... RETREAT!!!" ) but the by length of their penis.

But I agree. Especially against armoured enemies, the Rhompi's are awesome!

[Africanvs]

yeah, but they're elite. the Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi are better, but yet not as fearsome as the naked dudes. They rather make the enemy rout by the lenght of their unpronouncable name ( "Attack the Thraikioi Rhompi....Rhimpo...Rambo.... RETREAT!!!" ) but the by length of their penis.

But I agree. Especially against armoured enemies, the Rhompi's are awesome!

LMAO. I don't think the length of the penis is the real factor of their awesomeness, although it might be part of their intimidation factor. You have to wonder how many veteran troops of this type still have a fully intact penis as well. I imagine a lot of stumps.

[SwissBarbar]

Actually I could imagine that a naked dude who got emasculated would rather kill himself.... therefore they all are intact

[satalexton]

thats just...=_=

anyway, rhomphias are the best weapon in EB, u can pretty much expect anybody that has one would take several men down before getting swamped.

Give me a rhomphia, and i can rule the world.

[AqD]

Also, Pontos is really one of the hardest factions in the game. Perhaps you can better try Carthage or Rome first.

Ummm well not so hard becaus I tweaked a bit :sweatdrop: ...... family member costs 0 instead of 200 denarii, and all mines have normal income as indicated in the building descriptions.


Don't look youself blind at the "stats". The stats you can see in the game is only half the truth. Many of the stats is "hidden". You can't see them in-game.

and naked galatian swordsmen is truely fearsome. One of the best infantary units in the game.

I found their real name: Galatikoi Tindanotae. I dunno how but they were beaten really badly by my Phalangitai.... Or perhaps it was Galatikoi Kluddolon behind my Phalangitai and Tindanotae in front of the pikes. I can imagine their pain when dozens of pikes were being thrusted into their huge penis. :laugh4:

Anyway, all galatians have been exterminated and I can recruit nothing from there anymore..... :shame: It's all the fault of that stupid Seleucid commander! :wall:



One more question about the pontic units: why do the Thorakitai ("Pontic Elite Infantry") seem to be only as good as Thureophoroi despite of being 50% more expensive?

Here are their stats from unit file:

thureophoroi:
melee attack: 14, lethality: 13%, spear
defense: 10 (armour), 8 (skill), 3 (shield) = 21
morale: 11, normal
heat fatique level: 2
upkeep: 337 denarii

pontic thorakitai
melee attack: 12, lethality: 10%, sword
defense: 9 (armour), 9 (skill), 3 (shield) = 21
morale: 13, impetuous
heat fatique level: 4
upkeep: 453

So they're ..... :inquisitive:


BTW the thureophoroi are good right? Why did I hear some terrible stories about them before? Perhaps I should begin training some of them for countering cavalry and flank protection...

[satalexton]

they are a decent mobile medium infantry force, dependable and flexible. the pontikoi thorakitai are dedicated medium infantry trained by the pontic state to give them a solid 'native' troop to rely on, other than galatian mercs and hellenes, which tend to have their own loyalties.....(for a good reason)

[A Very Super Market]

Remember that the enemy will have ridiculous uphill bonuses at times..

[Nachtmeister]

Ummm well not so hard becaus I tweaked a bit :sweatdrop: ...... family member costs 0 instead of 200 denarii, and all mines have normal income as indicated in the building descriptions.

Here are their stats from unit file:

thureophoroi:
melee attack: 14, lethality: 13%, spear
defense: 10 (armour), 8 (skill), 3 (shield) = 21
morale: 11, normal
heat fatique level: 2
upkeep: 337 denarii

pontic thorakitai
melee attack: 12, lethality: 10%, sword
defense: 9 (armour), 9 (skill), 3 (shield) = 21
morale: 13, impetuous
heat fatique level: 4
upkeep: 453

BTW the thureophoroi are good right? Why did I hear some terrible stories about them before? Perhaps I should begin training some of them for countering cavalry and flank protection...


1. pontic thorakitai have +2 morale...
2. pontic thorakitai have swords
3. pontic thorakitai have more armour

1. that means they last longer in combat before routing
2. swords attack FASTER than spears; also, spears receive -4 attack vs. infantry
3. the armour also counts if they are attacked from BEHIND. Skill does not...

==> The pontic thorakitai are an anti-infantry unit for the thick of melee. They are THE perfect unit to complement the plentiful pontic phalangites (which are already pretty good by themselves).
Thureophoroi are certainly nice too, but you have to use them a bit differently - go by the unit description.

[Gask]

I've found all the "hard" small factions rather easy. Saba / Pontos / Hai / Baktria have all been fairly boring. All you have to do is outmaneuver the ai, kill any pointlessly expensive starting units you get... why they are given to you in the first place is beyond me. All you need is some cheap levy spearmen to stand around in guard mode and distract units while your slingers and generals do the real work.

From this you just blitz the heck out of all rebel cities, especially the "protected" kh coastals. It's not like they are going to do anything to you being so far away. The problem with this is that by the time that you can recruit your elites you are so far away from your homeland that there is little point to it.

I have tried with each to play a regional "kingdom" game, taking only type1 and 2 areas around your starting city but that gets very dull also. It seems that if you consistently and soundly defeat AS whenever they come at you they eventually give up and focus on their other enemies for a very long time, allowing you to do whatever in peace. The only exception is saba, AS and Potols can't get enough of them for some reason, but they are far away.

In my current baktria campaign I allowed AS to keep its cities separating me from parthia and saka and only took the few directly south of baktra. AS became my protector as no one else bordered me only AS ever attacked me. Even though they came at me they were so busy with parthia and saka that they only sent piddly little quarter or half stacks, thus my garrison could take them apart with ease. I was then able to make a ceasefire and benefit greatly from trade rights with all 3 factions while I invaded India. That was extremely fun even though my invading army was completely destroyed general and all :sweatdrop:. But that was only because I didn't bring any javelin tossers for the elephants, so I went back and had many bloody adventures, the most fun I've ever had in eb even.

Once you conquer India and the mountains there is no money trouble. But with India under heel I am not finding any other battles to be very fun heh. I am the most advanced faction, I have a level 5 mic in baktra and all tremble before me :smash:.

I wish that you could establish conquered "Regional Capitols" where you could institute reforms that would allow the recruitment of your own factions units. Say you conquer all of Italy with Carthage, you could then designate Rome as your regional capitol and after a lengthly process access your own units. The endless cycle of recruiting garbage spearmen and mercs always makes me retire out of lack of interest.

[Rilder]

Gask, then when you take to many losses return your army back home and retrain, its not realistic to blitz everything to hell and be able to recruit local troops into your main infantry and elites.

[Gask]

I've played this game in every manner Rilder. I was merely relating some of my experiences on how I dealt with the AS as hai/pontos/baktria.

Anyway, what is so unrealistic about conquering a people and over a period of years or decades establishing your own military training and traditions in their capitol? That seems perfectly logical and practical to me. Anyway I wasn't asking for such a thing, merely stating that it would be nice in a wishful sense. I could also wish for actual diplomacy, sea battles and lone generals that don't wade through 3 phalanxes and a massive barrage of slingshot. I won't get it :2thumbsup:.

Cheers.

[heldelance]

Naked Celts are awesome to the max. In any army, always get 1 or 2 Galatikoi or the spear ones. They can make the Levy Hoplites stand toe to toe with normal hoplites. (They still take casualties quickly but they'll hold for much longer than normal)

[Apázlinemjó]

With the starting army I was able to conquer Sinope and Nicaea, then the troops were disbanded. I waited like 30 years to get enough money, bought a mercenary army and now I'm kicking the AS, Ptol, Mak and KH out of Anatolia. Although, I guess this strategy needs a little luck too, since I wasn't attacked by my neighborhood meantime. :dizzy2:

[AqD]

With the starting army I was able to conquer Sinope and Nicaea, then the troops were disbanded. I waited like 30 years to get enough money, bought a mercenary army and now I'm kicking the AS, Ptol, Mak and KH out of Anatolia. Although, I guess this strategy needs a little luck too, since I wasn't attacked by my neighborhood meantime. :dizzy2:

hmmm epirus and AS never attacked you?? :idea2:

[Apázlinemjó]

hmmm epirus and AS never attacked you?? :idea2:

I play at VH / M, and no, they didn't attack me, dunno why.

[Blxz]

I had a pontus game where I badly handled a single huge battle and lost my entire army to several large seleucid stacks before I could unite asia minor. It settled into a 20 turn long repeating loop of them seiging my capital and then my diplomat would immediately get ceasefire with them, then I would take the money and try and build a new unit in a separate town. During their turn the same huge stack standing next to my capital would seige it again and I would be forced to get a ceasefire. Happened so many times over such a long period and was NOT using force diplomacy,pure luck that I survived. They must have been regretting it after I wiped them out 10 years later.