No more suicide generals?

[Kasagi Yabu]

This was a major problem in Shogun that was never really fixed. The same thing for Medieval. Although I've seen the enemy general killed plenty of times in Empire, it hasn't risen to the level as the first two games, or at least, it hasn't bothered me like Shogun/med did. Anyone agree? Also, was this a problem for Medieval II? I didn't play it.

[TB666]

I think the change is that the general doesn't matter that much.
Yes they give a morale boost however it is not big and if they die it bothers the men but not that much that they will turn and run at first sight of the enemy.

[Sheogorath]

It mostly seems to be generals bodyguard units that it's more careful with. I've seem it gleefully charge into the fray headlong with non-bodyguard generals.

Also, I note that the native factions seem to be a bit less careful with their generals, perhaps CA threw in a desire for personal glory with the native AI? Of course, the natives in general seem pretty dumb to me :blankg:

And, from my experience, admirals are FAR more important than generals, given that you're more likely to route an enemy ship in a naval battle than sink it. If you've got two evenly matched ships, the side without the admiral is at a major disadvantage.

Of course, it's kind of hard to be careful with your admiral in naval battles, since it seems the chances of your 'admiral' being hit are more or less totally random. Your ship may take one hit with a cannonball which just happens to kill your admiral, or your flagship might end up taking the brunt of the entire enemy assault and he just happens to live.

It's kind of annoying >_>

[Relic]

Yes, finally the generals aren't wanting to die in martyrdom.

[ratbarf]

I remember this happening as well though it wasn't nearly as bad in Shogun as you Diamyo's unit could take on half of an army all on his lonesome. Don't remember it in Medieval I at all really. Though it was a definate in Rome as they would happy charge the phalanx line and half of the time they would die horribly. I also remember the AI in Medieval II doing this rather much as well. Using the general in a last ditch effort to win was a tactic that they typically used.

[Bob the Insane]

You are correct that it does not appear to happen...

I think one of the downfalls for "Commander" units in previous games was that they where one of the most powerful units on the field and the AI treated them as such.

However it is not just this change in ETW, you see the General specifically being left back, and occasionally being charged near a fight (as opposed to into the fight) to apply the morale bonus I guess...

My hope is that there is a good battlefield AI buried in there disguised by some last minute changes that have messed up it's decision tree and waiting to be unleashed...

[Callahan9119]

Well, I notice that generals seem to keep powerful magnets in their hats.

[vladiator]

By "general", do you mean a general who is a "character", or simply a unit that is designated as a "general/commander" for the purpose of a battle when a character general is not there?

If latter, I "met" my first suicidal general yesterday. I was battling Otomans for their last province, Egypt. I had a full stack with 6 of the units being artillery. So, Otomans send their only mounted united which also doubled as their commander -- camel riders, to overcome the artillery. Needless to say that none of them servived after one coordinated shot of all six artillery units.

[quadalpha]

you see the General specifically being left back

My generals are always centre halfs.

[Bob the Insane]

My generals are always centre halfs.


Nice... :laugh4:

[Feanaro]

The AI does a decent job of keeping proper generals and some "drafted" general units out of the fight until necessary. Native Americans not so much but I can see their warrior culture causing that sort of issue. Leading from the rear might not even be an option for an NA leader.

I do miss uber-generals though. Although stars help, having a full-star general isn't as awesome as it used to be. I STILL remember what one of my favorite M:TW generals looked like and some of his traits. Like boy-lover. :laugh4:

[antisocialmunky]

Don't remember it in Medieval I at all really.

Let me remind you: John Comnenus the 8+ star general/heir of the Byzantine Empire has a bodyguard of Kataphractoi around 100 strong and took whole elite armies by himself. Eventually he gets disenherited turning into a regular general unit who never dies.:inquisitive:

[Darth Venom]

Let me remind you: John Comnenus the 8+ star general/heir of the Byzantine Empire has a bodyguard of Kataphractoi around 100 strong and took whole elite armies by himself. Eventually he gets disenherited turning into a regular general unit who never dies.:inquisitive:

And remember the "send unworthy heirs to Lithuania" tactic. Either they would die surrounded by hundreds of peasants/town militia or they would hack their way through them and emerge as battle hardened generals with lot of good traits/retinue.

[Sheogorath]

And remember the "send unworthy heirs to Lithuania" tactic. Either they would die surrounded by hundreds of peasants/town militia or they would hack their way through them and emerge as battle hardened generals with lot of good traits/retinue.

Ah, the old 'make 'em or break 'em' strategy for heir approval. Gotta love it :gring:

Unfortunately by ETW's time period royalty generally only watched battles from afar. Too bad more of them weren't like Charles XII or Peter the Great :tongueg:

[foop]

They don't charge to their deaths, no.

But (in my experience) they do have a habit of parking their unit right on top of any artillery they have, which usually has similar results.

[Poncho400]

I do notice them keeping their generals out of the fight quite often (even natives in the RtI). They only seem to send them in when their army is starting to get it's ass handed to it.

As for me, I like to keep my general fighting near my troops and providing flanking attacks. Though I always have a unit or two of cavalry with him to make sure he doesn't die. This can be risky, though, as just recently I lost Mr. Washington as he courageously hacked down a group of native cavalry. Lucky for me, the turn before I had recruited a 6 star general from his army (the guy came from a battle hardened group of minutemen).

[Quillan]

I don't recall Shogun that much and never played the original Medieval, but the big thing about "suicide generals" I found in Rome and M2 was when they were AI controlled. Since now your reinforcements aren't AI controlled that's not an issue on your side. As far as the opposition goes, I think it may well be because the bodyguard units aren't as powerful as they used to be. Since they're not powerhouses, the AI might be taking more care with them.