View Full Version : Has a surrender ever been accepted?
Out of curiosity, since I hit this button every time to see if it does anything, has anyone ever seen the AI accept a surrender? The most meaningless provincial territory defended by two 0-rank militia will happily refuse the option against two full stacks of late period veteran units, is this another case of the backend code simply ignoring any other outcome?
Discoman
03-23-2009, 22:11
I've attempted numerous times but to no avail! I mean I'm curious about when it works and what happens if they do accept. I guess they just retreat and give the town to you. I guess this made sense with what CA promised concerning the AI being able to judge the importance of a battle... which I haven't seen yet because I've never seen them retreat from a battle.
Full stack against 2 armed populace = no surrender. That's been my experience.
Barkhorn1x
03-23-2009, 22:18
All these towns seem to be peopled with fanatical volksturm who fight to the death - EVERY time. :embarassed:
I hope this get's fixed as towns in this era did not fight on when the deck was clearly stacked against them.
johnross2007
03-23-2009, 22:34
Well from a money standpoint, the armed populace dying in battle cost nothing, they kill your troops for free.
I honestly don't think I will ever see a surrender, as the AI puts a premium on real estate.
Maybe some sort of auonomous AI for each city so that the populace will only fight if it thinks it can win as a normal populace would not normally fight.
Suraknar
03-24-2009, 02:40
Nope never happened either, I think some functionality is missing somewhere in the AI.
GeneralHankerchief
03-24-2009, 02:42
Not in my experience, and I've had some pretty lopsided odds.
Bronze Corsair
03-24-2009, 03:05
I've had a successful demand for surrender. The whole province doesn't switch over, just some of the units defending disband. I suspect it has something to do with happiness in the settlement, but I haven't really tested it yet.
I try it almost before every battle and no luck so far. Even with a full stack vs 1 enemy unit its always been rejected. I'm guessing its borked.
I never succeeded in obtaining surrender . Is it a bug or a feature i wonder? Sometime in history armed citizenry could be downright stubborn and refuse surrender even when facing impossible odds.
Battle of Saint-Eustache, Canada December 14, 1837
UK forces: 1,280 infantry(veteran), 220 militia, 5 cannons, 1 rocket battery; CO: John Colborne (Waterloo hero)
Patriot forces : 200 armed (some without firearms) citizenry ; CO: Jean-Olivier Chénier (physician, no army background)
Colborne offer to spare the town if rebel accept surrender into captivity : refused.
result :
UK : 3 dead
Patriot : 70 dead, 120 captured, CO dead and excommunicated for having fought on holy ground
Town and Church looted then burned.
A Very Super Market
03-24-2009, 03:59
Hey, history quiz time!
While this is the Lower Canadian side of things, what happened in Upper Canada?
Name the battle if you please. :D
Battle of Montgomery's Tavern, Canada, December 7, 1837
UK forces: ~1000 (regulars and militiamen), 1 gun; CO : James Fitzgibbon (hero of the Canada-USA war of 1812)
Republic of Canada forces : 210 well armed militia (seized a Toronto armory, defeated UK forces and killed Colonel Robert Moodie on December 5); CO: Anthony Van Egmond (Dutch Napoleonic War veteran)
~300 unarmed citizenry; CO: William Lyon Mackenzie
result:
UK: 1 dead, 5 wounded
Republic of Canada: 3 dead, 5 wounded, forces routed. Anthony Van Egmond captured, William Lyon Mackenzie escaped
Tavern looted then burned
Republic of Canada flag
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_Canada.svg
Phog_of_War
03-24-2009, 05:57
Battle of Montgomery's Tavern, Canada, December 7, 1837
UK forces: ~1000 (regulars and militiamen), 1 gun; CO : James Fitzgibbon (hero of the Canada-USA war of 1812)
Republic of Canada forces : 210 well armed militia (seized a Toronto armory, defeated UK forces and killed Colonel Robert Moodie on December 5); CO: Anthony Van Egmond (Dutch Napoleonic War veteran)
~300 unarmed citizenry; CO: William Lyon Mackenzie
result:
UK: 1 dead, 5 wounded
Republic of Canada: 3 dead, 5 wounded, forces routed. Anthony Van Egmond captured, William Lyon Mackenzie escaped
Tavern looted then burned
Republic of Canada flag
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_Canada.svg
Nice! I love history lessons.:yes:
Kobal2fr
03-24-2009, 09:16
Battle of Montgomery's Tavern, Canada, December 7, 1837
UK forces: ~1000 (regulars and militiamen), 1 gun; CO : James Fitzgibbon (hero of the Canada-USA war of 1812)
Republic of Canada forces : 210 well armed militia (seized a Toronto armory, defeated UK forces and killed Colonel Robert Moodie on December 5); CO: Anthony Van Egmond (Dutch Napoleonic War veteran)
~300 unarmed citizenry; CO: William Lyon Mackenzie
result:
UK: 1 dead, 5 wounded
Republic of Canada: 3 dead, 5 wounded, forces routed. Anthony Van Egmond captured, William Lyon Mackenzie escaped
Tavern looted then burned
Republic of Canada flag
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_Canada.svg
1500 guys slugging it out, and only 4 dead, 10 wounded total ? What the hell kind of battles do they have in Canada ?
antisocialmunky
03-24-2009, 13:10
Hugging battles.
Fridgebadger
03-24-2009, 13:38
Does anyone know the mechanics for how surrender *should* work? Ie, if you surrender, do you get to withdraw the garrison before the city falls? In which case, maybe it's a feature put in for the forthcoming mp campaign? And the AI just doesn't know how to use it?
Liberator
03-24-2009, 15:14
I think the surrender issue is intertwined with the fact that there is no more city looting.
I mean - why should they surrender? If you could threaten them, like "surrender or we rape your city to the ground and burn your women", there would be a reason to surrender. But for the ordinary town people, nothing changes after a city is conquered.
Mr Frost
03-24-2009, 15:40
... result :
UK : 3 dead
Patriot : 70 dead, 120 captured, CO dead and excommunicated for having fought on holy ground
Town and Church looted then burned.
I see they brought the top shelf irony on that day :yes:
1500 guys slugging it out, and only 4 dead, 10 wounded total ? What the hell kind of battles do they have in Canada ?
Well the thing is that it more like 210 rebels entrenched into the tavern vs ~1000 green infantry & militia. The other unarmed 300 did not take part in the battle. The British forces marched on the tavern but wavered after a couple of volley from the rebel holed into the tavern. Then Fitzgibbon brought up a cannon and started to shell the building. The rebel got the hint that their position was compromised and they decided to exhibit Anglo-Saxon commonsense and escaped while they still can.
At the battle of Saint-Eustache it went very differently because the Patriot where facing crack British troops. They were entrenched into the church but Colborne was using his cannon and rocket to slowly turn the church to rubble. They left the church and formed the line to meet the British to show them foolish Frenchman courage. After 1 (some say 3) exchange(s) 70 of them lied dead and many more were wounded. Those that where not wounded try to flee but most are shot or captured.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Battle_of_Saint-Eustache.JPG
@Mr Frost: French Canadian have the reputation of having a great sense of humor...
Mhm. Unfortunately they all seem to believe in martyrdom. :juggle2:
I think the surrender issue is intertwined with the fact that there is no more city looting.
I mean - why should they surrender?
So the non-citizen units can escape to fight on more favorable terms later.
A couple militia units aren't even going to slow a full stack of late-period units down. They will all die inflicting a dozen casualties, and then the AI needs X money and Y turns to replace them before you get to the next battle in the area.
A Very Super Market
03-25-2009, 00:44
These aren't real battle you guys. Well they are, but they are extremely lopsided from the beginning. You Amis, Euros, and others have your glorious rebellions and we Canadians get a few drunk guys getting way in over their head and surrendering after a few shots...
Kobal2fr
03-25-2009, 10:52
[...] and we Canadians get a few drunk guys getting way in over their head
As far as I know, that's how all revolutions get started :)
Out of curiosity, since I hit this button every time to see if it does anything, has anyone ever seen the AI accept a surrender? The most meaningless provincial territory defended by two 0-rank militia will happily refuse the option against two full stacks of late period veteran units, is this another case of the backend code simply ignoring any other outcome?
Appears to be unimplemented. Think of it as an opportunity for them to add a "cool new feature" in a future patch. :laugh:
Some people have reported to have gotten the AI to surrender but it does seem to be a rare cases and still no idea what triggers it.
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