New hot fix

[johnhughthom]

There is a hotfix for Empire just released which I'm currently downloading. Not sure what it fixes...

[Ardri]

Just saw that pop up as well.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Announcement from the ETW Steam group:


The new update for Empire Total War is out, so hopefully, the most irritating bugs and crashes are fixed.

Enjoy.

In other words, I think we're all waiting to see.

[johnhughthom]

Check out hooahguy's thread further down, that explains what it has. No gameplay updates mostly CTD related.

[CanCritter]

Empire: Total War


Multiplayer – can now find friends across regions

Load time detection on trade routes to fix pathfinding crash in campaign

Some General Sound balancing improvements

Fixed UI Chat hang when spectator leaves unranked match with 3+ players

Varies Campaign Crash Fixes

Some Save/Load fixes

Boarding fix where cannon crew board order was not being deleted properly causing crash

Fix to kill characters instantly to stop crashes in campaign on agent/general deaths

Save games limited to 1000

Fix to animation glitch causing repetitive sounds when battle is launched

[Feanaro]

Quicker than I figured. Downloading...

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Nice fix but Empire isn't starting anymore. :furious3:

[Bornslippy]

Tried it, and then tried to load a campaign that was crashing before, but not impressed - the LOAD screen now hangs ! I'll try a reboot and see if that helps...

[johnhughthom]

Tried it, and then tried to load a campaign that was crashing before, but not impressed - the LOAD screen now hangs ! I'll try a reboot and see if that helps...

Chances are any save/load fixes will only be for new games, I'd be very surprised if they managed to get corrupted saves going again.

[AussieGiant]

Before going completely "radio rental" about the patch, I'd start a new game and see what happens, johnhughthom has a good point. :2thumbsup:

[Bornslippy]

Err - I beg to differ but that means that anyone in the process of playing one or more games loses all but their current game. I don't know about you but campaign games take days and tend to fit in around the rest of my life. I can understand if already corrupted files are not fixed, but existing ones which are working fine ...?

Also, I have rebooted and the load screen simply hangs. You can only <Continue> your current campaign, which I suppose is something. Trying to <load> simply shows no saved games, and bringing up <Load> after selecting single player hangs. Very poor testing I suggest ?:wall:

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I can start the game now. I just had to copy the original Bink video back to the Empire folder. Have not noticed any improvements but can play the game now.

[AussieGiant]

Err - I beg to differ but that means that anyone in the process of playing one or more games loses all but their current game. I don't know about you but campaign games take days and tend to fit in around the rest of my life. I can understand if already corrupted files are not fixed, but existing ones which are working fine ...?

Also, I have rebooted and the load screen simply hangs. You can only <Continue> your current campaign, which I suppose is something. Trying to <load> simply shows no saved games, and bringing up <Load> after selecting single player hangs. Very poor testing I suggest ?:wall:

If they are changing code then the only way to be sure you have a clean shot is to start again. If you have a CTD it could be in the save and it might not. You will never be sure until you start again.

[CanCritter]

with stat changes ect imagine all previous games are toast becuase things wont sync......will probally have to start new campain

[Bornslippy]

If they are changing code then the only way to be sure you have a clean shot is to start again. If you have a CTD it could be in the save and it might not. You will never be sure until you start again.

Well that's certainly one way, but equally certainly it is not the only way and probably not the best way - how about validating when you load a file ? And a CTD is just poor coding.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I can continue and I could load saved games. But CA has introduced a new strange bug. When I save no saved games show up and I can only see the map of north America suggesting I am playing the USA while I am playing Russia. Typing the name of my saved game gives me the normal message that I am replacing an old file and I can save the game. Immediately saving works fine but next turn I had a blank screen again suggesting I was the USA. This can maybe because the fix isn't save game compatible but It would be nice if I was notified about that.

[Veresov]

Another disappointment! This hot fix fails to fix a lot of hardware incompatibilities with Empire. Despite a full reinstall, Empire still has the crash fleet issue and disbanding a general still CTD's. The game still crashing at the end of the turn with the Microsoft error "Empire has stopped working...".

I've been putting up with a non-functioning game for over 3 weeks. Time to start visit places like Amazon and giving this coaster a one star rating.

[Miyamoto_Musashi]

Hopefully it will be fixed in the subsequant patches read the next patch update topic @ verosoz.

How big is this patch?

[foop]

Hmm. Not an unqualified success.

By coincidence, I was just about to start a game as the British. The patch installed. I now get a CTD after my first naval battle. :inquisitive:

Before the patch, I had no problems (although I've only played RTI and a short Maratha campaign so far).

[KozaK13]

Damn was hoping maybe a map would be included following the questionnaire on the official forums...atleast no more of what ever it fixed.

[Dayve]

Stop talking about giving a game 1 star because it's a bit buggy, or using it as a coaster. The only reason this game is so buggy compared to other games that are released, lets compare it to, i don't know, DOOM 3, is because DOOM 3 is a mindless shooter with no substance, and a game like that takes only a few months to put together.

This game is absolutely massive, and even with several years to work on it it still isn't enough time, but 3-6 months from now it will be fully patched up and working fine.

I knew this game was going to be buggy when it was released and so did everybody else. You weren't forced to buy it and play a buggy unfinished game, you weren't forced at all, the choice was yours. You could have waited an extra 6 months until it was fully patched up to buy and play.

[Forward Observer]

How does one know if the if the hot fix has been applied. I saw this thread on my old PC while I was playing the game on my new rig. I ended my game, signed off of Steam, rebooted my system, and started the game up again, which of course is preceded by the Steam sign on. I got no messages about a download and the game just started up like normal.

I restarted Steam again with no observable message or delay in starting the game. Since these fixes don't appear to have version numbers nor have I seen any such notations in the game, how does one know if they are getting properly updated.

I have Steam set up to notify me of updates and such and in the past when I tried to start a game such as HL2, I would actually see an update message, and the start of the game might be delayed a bit. This is not happening with me for Empires.

Several people posted that the fix/patch was being downloaded as they were posting. Any ideas why others would they see this and I don't?

Thanks

[bloodshed]

It might be just me but after I downloaded the patch and got into a land battle some of the sounds were off. Id hear random musket shots and not in sync with what I am seeing like I would see a line of infantry shoot together but the shot sounds would be scattered. I dont know its hard to explain. There would also be a delay like when Id click on a unit I would have to wait a few seconds then I would hear them say what they are. Same thing on when I click and tell them where to go. Anyone else get this or is it just me.

[johnhughthom]

It might be just me but after I downloaded the patch and got into a land battle some of the sounds were off. Id hear random musket shots and not in sync with what I am seeing like I would see a line of infantry shoot together but the shot sounds would be scattered. I dont know its hard to explain. There would also be a delay like when Id click on a unit I would have to wait a few seconds then I would hear them say what they are. Same thing on when I click and tell them where to go. Anyone else get this or is it just me.

A lot of people reporting this at twcenter, not noticed it myself.

[Mailman653]

1000 savegame limit...wouldn't that take up about 5GB?:laugh4:

[Kasagi Yabu]

Continued my game as France. Next turn there was a land battle (same as last night). Game crashed just as the remaining British forces started to retreat. (Same as last night). Wonderful. :wall:

[TB666]

A lot of people reporting this at twcenter, not noticed it myself.
Had that problem myself.
But I remembed that I had a sound mod installed.
I removed that, verified and problem gone.
Atleast so far.

[Barkhorn1x]

I am now getting White Screen CTDs when I had none pre-patch. But I am playing RtI Part III - which may be bugged.

Fingers crossed as I go back to the Grand Campaign.

[Feanaro]

Works fine for me.

[Heinrich VI]

post land- and naval battle CTDs. wow thats a new one...

on the positive side so far i have experienced no click-on-fleet-CTDs and no corrupted savegame *fingers crossed*.

but the new post battle CTDs render the game completely unplayable now. :thumbsdown:

EDIT: got the game to progress by replaying the same naval battle three times. at last! encountered a new gem during the next naval battle: the game just froze and forced me to reboot the computer. it has done this to me during AI turns previously but never during battles. :/

[Marquis of Roland]

I don't mind starting a new campaign, I've already played the first 50 years of GB several times due to unrecoverable CTD lol.

If the fleet CTDs are still happening, I found a few not so great solutions. Firstly, never repair your ships in a shipyard, always repair at trading ports and fishing ports. So far I've never had a fleet CTD in a non shipbuilding port yet. Secondly, if a fleet freezes in the open ocean, I solved it by sending a new ship to join the fleet. However, sometimes when I scupper the new ship, it CTD again. Sucks if you have to replace an experienced ship with a green ship, but at least you can still keep playing your campaign.

[bloodshed]

Yeah Im still crashing. But there random for me no really certain setting that makes it stop working. Done it during battles and after I auto resolved some battles. Still a few more patches to go and Im sure it will be a fun game to play and not have to worry about random crashes.

[Marquis of Roland]

Well I'm getting that save/load screen bug too. I just messed up on my new campaign and I'm trying to load a game but the game files aren't showing up, and in place of the picture of my king there's a picture of the Duke of Wellington instead.

[Bornslippy]

I knew this game was going to be buggy when it was released and so did everybody else. You weren't forced to buy it and play a buggy unfinished game, you weren't forced at all, the choice was yours. You could have waited an extra 6 months until it was fully patched up to buy and play.

Sorry Dayve, but that has to be the stupidest comment I have heard in a while. Maybe you might have a case if the marketing had said "here it is, doesn't it look great, pay us your money now and we promise to give you a decent product in six months", but of course it didn't, oh no. :no:

(In this country at least) you are supposed to sell products of merchantable quality, and this is borderline. I would probably have a case for returning the software, if I really hated the game as well, but of course I won't (as I am a fan). I do resent having my time wasted - its really disappointing spending hours on a campaign only to find that it becomes unplayable.

Is it too much to expect that CA would have tested the game on a number of different platforms and got rid of showstopper bugs ? I have a new I7-based GTX 295 system running Vista 64Bit which I put together especially for this game. This is certainly one the systems they should have tested, but my experience suggests that they didn't, as the game looks awful. That is of course quite apart from the major playablility bugs which are independent of the platform.

Of course venting on this forum does nothing except perhaps make me feel a bit better, and maybe, if noticed, CA may do a better job next time, but I doubt it. I love the concepts of the whole TW series and have a been a fan for a long time, but releasing code (especially patches) with obvious major bugs is just unprofessional. :wall:

[loony]

Instead of invading india, my two army stacks sit in two stacks of second rates right near the shore. I cannot move them, because if I try to click on the fleet or click on it through the list menu the game crashes:thumbsdown:
Ok, so I have some cash and I can afford to keep those idiots there forever, it is very annoying, though. Screwed up my grand strategy for good and prolonged fights in indian theater :wall:

[Grumfoss]

Well I'm getting that save/load screen bug too. I just messed up on my new campaign and I'm trying to load a game but the game files aren't showing up, and in place of the picture of my king there's a picture of the Duke of Wellington instead.


Hehe I'm getting the same, i'm so glad its not just me. I thought I was going a bit mad I had to click on resume game and then load game a few times just to make sure!.

The quick load still works but all of my other saves are missing ~:(

I didn't even know that steam had updated my game until I looked at the forums this morning ~:) I will check when I get home to see if I can continue my campaign or if i'll have to restart. ho hum the joys of PC gaming.

[Dayve]

Sorry Dayve, but that has to be the stupidest comment I have heard in a while. Maybe you might have a case if the marketing had said "here it is, doesn't it look great, pay us your money now and we promise to give you a decent product in six months", but of course it didn't, oh no. :no:

(In this country at least) you are supposed to sell products of merchantable quality, and this is borderline. I would probably have a case for returning the software, if I really hated the game as well, but of course I won't (as I am a fan). I do resent having my time wasted - its really disappointing spending hours on a campaign only to find that it becomes unplayable.

Is it too much to expect that CA would have tested the game on a number of different platforms and got rid of showstopper bugs ? I have a new I7-based GTX 295 system running Vista 64Bit which I put together especially for this game. This is certainly one the systems they should have tested, but my experience suggests that they didn't, as the game looks awful. That is of course quite apart from the major playablility bugs which are independent of the platform.

Of course venting on this forum does nothing except perhaps make me feel a bit better, and maybe, if noticed, CA may do a better job next time, but I doubt it. I love the concepts of the whole TW series and have a been a fan for a long time, but releasing code (especially patches) with obvious major bugs is just unprofessional. :wall:

Doesn't matter that it was released or not, you can't rate an unfinished product. If there was an option to rate the company that made the game, CA, out of five, then there would be a case for giving them 1 star for releasing buggy software, but the game itself is amazing, it just needs to be patched and tweaked.

I should also add i've only ever had 1 campaign ruined by bugs, which was 15 turns into a French campaign. I've also played the game over 8 hours a day since its release, because i have no life, and only ever had 2 CTD's. It's not as bad as people are making it out to be.

[Bornslippy]

My experience of the last hour or so is that it is worse after this patch - two new bugs including a CTD, plus the aforementioned <load> anomalies.

Of course it matters that it was released - I've done enough beta testing in my life already :-) :dizzy2:

[anweRU]

Doesn't matter that it was released or not, you can't rate an unfinished product. If there was an option to rate the company that made the game, CA, out of five, then there would be a case for giving them 1 star for releasing buggy software, but the game itself is amazing, it just needs to be patched and tweaked.

The game was released and sold. It is finished. We have every right to complain. Heck, those who want their money back have every right to get it back.

I had so far not had any problems (except for the don't separate a fleet on a trade node bug). But yesterday's patch has messed up my save games - they don't appear any more, even though they are still on the hard drive.

As far as I'm concerned, CA is doing a much worse job with their incremental patches then with METW & METW2.

[Dayve]

But the polls represent the game itself, not the bugs or the stability. In this regard, the game gets a 5, no doubt.

Problem is, there isn't a seperate poll for the quality of the software, there isn't a poll to represent how buggy or polished the game was. If there was, then it would be fine to give this game 1/5, but there isn't, so don't vote.

[IRONxMortlock]

The game was released and sold. It is finished. We have every right to complain. Heck, those who want their money back have every right to get it back.

I had so far not had any problems (except for the don't separate a fleet on a trade node bug). But yesterday's patch has messed up my save games - they don't appear any more, even though they are still on the hard drive.

As far as I'm concerned, CA is doing a much worse job with their incremental patches then with METW & METW2.

Don't get too worked up mate. :2thumbsup: You did notice his location and descriptor?

What I can't figure out unfortunately, is how you add certain people to the ignore list on this forum; anyone know?

Back on topic, very disappointing to hear about this patch... is there some way not to install it if you have the steam version?

[Heinrich VI]

nope you are stuck with it. at least CA has noticed that their last patch made the game completely unplayable for some of their customers and have started to collect feedback regarding new problems that came with the latest patch: http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/51588

lets hope they fix this messy excuse for a patch ASAP! :furious3:

[Lord of the Isles]

Doesn't matter that it was released or not, you can't rate an unfinished product. If there was an option to rate the company that made the game, CA, out of five, then there would be a case for giving them 1 star for releasing buggy software, but the game itself is amazing, it just needs to be patched and tweaked.

I should also add i've only ever had 1 campaign ruined by bugs, which was 15 turns into a French campaign. I've also played the game over 8 hours a day since its release, because i have no life, and only ever had 2 CTD's. It's not as bad as people are making it out to be.

It's rare to find a troll with such delicacy of touch. :wink:

It is hard to judge just what proportion of people are having serious problems with the game, since the sufferers tend to scream loudly and those playing away quite happily just get on with it in peace. Even the second group are missing out the full potential of ETW mind you, since gameplay issues like no naval invasions remain for the moment, but as I know myself from previous TW titles, as long as the game doesn't crash you can usually find a way to live with those sorts of problems until they get fixed or modded.

Over years of PC gaming, I think I've learned to be more patient at times like these. With CA in particular, I owe them the chance to sort things out, since I've had much fun with their games. That doesn't mean I won't point out silly things that only increase the frustration of their customers. I won't do the whole list here but let's look at just those things that this latest hotfix has highlighted:

-- Steam sometimes resetting its "do not automatically keep the game updated" setting, so people who don't want a latest patch/hotfix get it anyway. BTW, I now run Steam in offline mode all the time, and try to always check the update setting before and after I go online like last night to get the patch. Check every time in case it has reset.
-- Steam not allowing rollback to previous versions for those whose game gets worse with a hotfix/patch.
-- Insufficient information to know what version of the game you have (Version Numbers please)
-- Customer information generally - it would be good to have advice from CA about the save-game compatibility of this patch. I'm guessing that it is supposed to be but given the lack of stability of the game, I personally have moved all pre-March26-hotfix saves somewhere else and started a new game from scratch. If I had any mods, I would have removed them first, reinstalling the game if necessary to be sure it is vanilla. Just experience from these sorts of situations in the past.

Note that I'm not trying to list all the problems - just those that seem to me to be much less forgivable than the inevitable ones that can be expected from a complex and new game. I think the main reason I have been so annoyed at times this last three weeks is that I had (and still mostly have) a great deal of respect for CA (and I should add, for the TW fan community) and a lot of things over these three weeks have made me embarrassed for them. I expect better.


Ok, having said all that, my experience with the new hotfix has been positive. In all 7 of the Grand Campaigns I've attempted since ETW came out, all have ended with repeatable white screen CTDs (the 'Empire.exe has encountered a problem and cannot continue' kind), shortest turn 10 and longest turn 108. I started a new one as Sweden last night and have managed about 6 hours of play, about turn 40, with no CTD so far. Also have noticed no sign of the pauses when I select new units/towns. Hadn't run FRAPS for a while so don't have relevant pre-hotfix figures, but battles rarely change from 30-60 range and campaign map good too. No sound problems that I noticed but will check more closely now I know some people have them). Have noticed at least one new problem but it isn't major and I want to test some more before mentioning it.

Far too early to make a proper judgment but for now I'm glad I tried the hotfix. My sympathy to everyone for whom it has made things worse.

[IRONxMortlock]

nope you are stuck with it. at least CA has noticed that their last patch made the game completely unplayable for some of their customers and have started to collect feedback regarding new problems that came with the latest patch: http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/51588

lets hope they fix this messy excuse for a patch ASAP! :furious3:

DOH:wall:

That "support" thread is embarrassing. I can't believe they are expecting people to copy and paste their DXDIAG into a forum post!:embarassed:

This a well known developer with a big publisher and THAT, is their support system!?!?!? :no:

[Heinrich VI]

Maybe it is just for show - so that the frustrated masses (i.e. their customers) feel looked after while they are frantically (at least I hope so) trying to fix their newly introduced game breaker.

Ah yes the big publisher - try contacting their customer support! :404: :laugh4:

[Veresov]

The latest patch has apparently introduced a sound bug for many soundcards and at least for me didn't fix the end of turn CTD. I've reinstalled Empire 4 times to date -- everytime that there has been a patch and started a new game. Updated drivers. XP updated.

CA is so clueless about these bugs that now they are asking people to post their configurations. From what I am seeing there is no specific soundcard or system to blame. Seems across the board. There are problems with both XP and Vista. Now I can understand if maybe a couple of odd soundcards might have problems but most of these rigs seem to have run of the mill equipment.

Conclusion: This is a buggy game that was not adequately playtested.

[Marquis of Roland]

Hehe I'm getting the same, i'm so glad its not just me. I thought I was going a bit mad I had to click on resume game and then load game a few times just to make sure!.

The quick load still works but all of my other saves are missing ~:(

Let this latest patch be rechristened the Duke of Wellington's Own Patch! :2thumbsup:

[Fisherking]

post land- and naval battle CTDs. wow thats a new one...

on the positive side so far i have experienced no click-on-fleet-CTDs and no corrupted savegame *fingers crossed*.

but the new post battle CTDs render the game completely unplayable now. :thumbsdown:

EDIT: got the game to progress by replaying the same naval battle three times. at last! encountered a new gem during the next naval battle: the game just froze and forced me to reboot the computer. it has done this to me during AI turns previously but never during battles. :/

:oops:


For what ever reason I had two CTDs at the end of Naval Battles but the third time it worked.

The videos seem to work also as does the entro for the first time.

I started from a previous save game, so those should be ok too.

I didn’t take any risks with the trade fleet bug so I don’t know if that is working ok no.

I was having problems with land battles loading but that seems to be gone too.

Sorry some of the rest of you seem to be having troubles but it seems most of the problems I was having are gone.

Maybe defrag and change some settings and try again….

[quadalpha]

DOH:wall:

That "support" thread is embarrassing. I can't believe they are expecting people to copy and paste their DXDIAG into a forum post!:embarassed:

This a well known developer with a big publisher and THAT, is their support system!?!?!? :no:
People seem plenty happy to post less useful information than DX in forum posts.

[JRCDave]

Steam downloaded the patch on my system as soon as I started up. I assume it installed the patch close to the same time. I have had 2 CTD in two differnt campaigns. One ona prussian campaign that wiped 20 years as the save in that game caused a CTD as soon as I ended my turn and last night as after a small sea battle during the computer turn. (I won a 3 ship to 4 ship contest that went to naught) The auto save loaded up but I will have ot wait and see if the whole campaign is corrupted after 30 years. I am wondering if playing the GC in Steam Offline mode might improve the game.

[Beskar]

Another disappointment! This hot fix fails to fix a lot of hardware incompatibilities with Empire. Despite a full reinstall, Empire still has the crash fleet issue and disbanding a general still CTD's. The game still crashing at the end of the turn with the Microsoft error "Empire has stopped working...".

I been disbanding generals with no problems at all. I do have a couple of games with theend of turn being Empire has stopped working though.

[bloodshed]

lol i just went to try and play again and poof all my saved games are gone and it froze at the load games screen. super.

[TB666]

New patch is out
Empire: Total War


Issue with save games disappearing from the save game list if fixed

Updated of the Miles dll to fix some random crashes in sound

[MikeV]

BTW, I now run Steam in offline mode all the time
Me, too. Makes their decision to marry it kind of pointless, doesn't it? ~:doh:

[Marquis of Roland]

Huzzah! I swear if I ever see ol' Nosey in game again, it'll be too soon :laugh4:

[crpcarrot]

@tiberius

i had tis happen prepatch. havent tried the game after patch yet. during end turn one of my armies that was to move into a city walked upto the city and then the end turn process stopped nothing was happening. i still ahve control of the mouse though i couldnt move the screen so i just selected the army/unit and right clicked on the city and the end turn process continued. this was after reloading a couple of times and trying other stuff. maybe its the same sort of problem.

[Zatoichi]

Well, the new hotfix (March 26) seems to have fixed the crash that the March 25 hotfix caused in my campaign - I was able to fight 4 battles manually in a row during the AI turn and carry on merrily. When I tried this using the 'old' one (darn I wish they had version numbers!) my game crashed after the 2nd battle first time I tried it (fighting the battles manually), and then at the end of the AI turn the second time I attempted it (having autoresolved all the battles).

Still too early to say that it's totally fixed whatever the 25th March hotfix did though, but it's nice to be able to report some success at least! I'll know more when I'm able to devote some serious play time this evening - stupid work!

[Marquis of Roland]

Anyone had a unavoidable CTD on the latest patch yet? I only had 1 CTD during the AI's turns, but reloaded and it was ok the 2nd time. Clicking on fleets still cause some lag, but so far no CTD. It's still early in my new campaign though, 1725.

I had 1 new bug where I sailed a fleet to pirate Antigua. There was a pirate fleet docked in the port. When I sail into his intercept zone, my fleet is stuck in place; even after I landed my troops, took over the port, then took the region capital itself, fleet still stuck. Reloaded and sailed in from a different direction, problem solved.

[Meneldil]

Stop talking about giving a game 1 star because it's a bit buggy, or using it as a coaster. The only reason this game is so buggy compared to other games that are released, lets compare it to, i don't know, DOOM 3, is because DOOM 3 is a mindless shooter with no substance, and a game like that takes only a few months to put together.

This game is absolutely massive, and even with several years to work on it it still isn't enough time, but 3-6 months from now it will be fully patched up and working fine.

I knew this game was going to be buggy when it was released and so did everybody else. You weren't forced to buy it and play a buggy unfinished game, you weren't forced at all, the choice was yours. You could have waited an extra 6 months until it was fully patched up to buy and play.

Games like Europa Universalis or Heart of Iron are much more complex than TW will ever be, and not as buggy.

[gollum]

And also the companies that make them regard their fans better and are more fine tuned with what they like in-game...

[Rufus]

Games like Europa Universalis or Heart of Iron are much more complex than TW will ever be, and not as buggy.

And not nearly as graphically intense. And totally lacking a tactical component.

[gollum]

Originally posted by Rufus
And not nearly as graphically intense. And totally lacking a tactical component.

Both irrelevant to complexity. Paradox games are true wargames that model a billion things - TW games nowdays are *beer and pretzl* run of the mill strategy games that aim at the mass market.

[Zatoichi]

Apples and Oranges, gentlemen.

[gollum]

Not exactly - fresh apples and rotten oranges :laugh4:

[Melvish]

Games like Europa Universalis or Heart of Iron are much more complex than TW will ever be, and not as buggy.

[cough].... I remember suffering a whole lot of bugs and crash when EUIII came out (i remember a particular sound loop bug on my old pc).... It was only a really good game after they had rolled out 2 expacks. EU:Rome did crashed to desktop like it was going out of style and was laggggggggggy as hell until patched to v1.3 (or VV).

Still it was worth the curses and frustrations in the end as they are 2 very good games.
I'm sure (hopefull?) ETW will turn out the same.

Oh and try playing a multi player game of HOI1 with an earlier version than 1.06c ... good luck playing it more than 1 hours before it crash to death.

Cheer fellow grognards.

[Lemur]

Yup, I remember hearing an earful of screaming about EU when its latest iteration was released. That's the funny thing, people instantly forget how angry they are once a patch is out. Then they measure the next release of a game against the final, patched version of a game they like.

Just sayin'.

[Malkut]

Paradox games are true wargames

The Normandy Invasion was fought on a menu screen, as we all know.

[Rufus]

Both irrelevant to complexity. Paradox games are true wargames that model a billion things - TW games nowdays are *beer and pretzl* run of the mill strategy games that aim at the mass market.

But graphics and the presence of tactical as well as strategic gameplay are NOT irrelevant to the propensity for bugs. I'm no programming expert, but that seems like common sense to me. Just because these games are not as strategically complex as the Paradox games doesn't mean the likelihood of bugs should be lower.

[gollum]

Noone more than me would like TW games to be 100times better than Paradox games. Unfortunately for me and fortunately for CA they arent. They have turned into a half baked cake for all tastes. :balloon2:

Thank you all for your replies.
:bow:

[MrWhipple]

For all you folks that are going ape excrement over all of this, just look as your selves as alpha testers for the CA. Yes we are all part of the same team!

I used to work for the Game Industry as well as my Emmy Award winning son. And I can assure you what is going on. The Suits at Sega (not the hard working programmers and designers at theCA) said something like "Hey guys we are running short on funds on this project so let's just throw it out the door the way it is. It didn't hurt us too bad last time. There are Oddles of geeks out there lining up at their local Wal-Mart just drooling to drag this puppy home no matter how bad it is."

And you know, He was right. We love this stuff so much and it is so much a part of our lives that we would just about walk over broken glass to play. So we suffer through CTD's and bad sound and all that crap with hopes that it will get better.

And the good news is that it DOES GET BETTER. For all of us who have been her since Shogun we know and trust the great guys and gals at theCA. It is the guys with the ties that piss us off.

[Fookison]

Yup, I remember hearing an earful of screaming about EU when its latest iteration was released. That's the funny thing, people instantly forget how angry they are once a patch is out. Then they measure the next release of a game against the final, patched version of a game they like.

Just sayin'.

Head on over to the Paradox forum and see what people are saying about EU Rome. They are discussing the same things there as they are here. PI released an expac for EUR entitled Vae Victus and it has made the game heaps better but still everyone compares that game to the final version of EU3/IN. I recall when the Paradox Forum was full of this same grumbling when EU3 first came out and it was not until 2 Expacs, a few patches later and a great mod in Magna Mundi that we can all herald the success of that title and play uninterupted until the wee hours. There is hope for ETW but it will take time, a few patches, some expacs and patience on our part to get it refined. Go CA Go!