High Fructose Corn Syrup

[Strike For The South]

Lately here over in the States the corn lobby (Read Iowa) has been producing These mind numbing commercials (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVsgXPt564Q) Now this is just straight up wrong. This article is pretty good and straight forward. (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/thank_you_for_guzzling_corn_syrup)

I'm not saying I don't partake in HFCS I probably take in more than I should but this stuff is worse than cigarettes and it's in everything!

Im not saying we should ban it or even put "warning" labels on it, people can make there own decisions I'm just on my soap box

[seireikhaan]

Stop raining on our sugary parade.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I love the fact that their ad campaign is "It's just as healthy as sugar!" :laugh4:

I'm not convinced that it's significantly worse than sugar though.

[Marshal Murat]

I'm not convinced that it's significantly worse than sugar though.

It's not worse than sugar, it's simply that High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) and Corn is in everything Americans eat.

HFCS is in most drinks (diet drinks excluded), candy, and most processed food (Pop-tarts namely). Like the ad said, it's good in moderation, but how can you moderate HFCS intake when most of the food one can buy has HFCS?
Corn is even worse, since the meat one eats is fed with corn or corn meal. Most breads, unless they are whole grain, have corn as filled. The entire nation is fed off corn grown in the US Midwest. What they don't tell you is that the corn grown, almost entirely, is inedible. You can't eat it or process it naturally. They feed that corn to cows, pigs, chickens, etc. or mix it into HFCS. All this corn is grown because farmers get subsidies from the US government to grow corn instead of wheat, barley, oats, or any other grains, or to raise other crops. The farmers then get subsidized fertilizers to help grow the corn. If they don't grow corn, it isn't profitable.

PBS:KING CORN (http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/kingcorn/)

Fast Food Facts (http://www.foodfacts.info/high-fructose-corn-syrup.shtml)

High fructose corn syrup (HFCS) is corn syrup that has been modified to increase the level of fructose. It has become a popular topic in the discussion of obesity in America. The reason for this is that HFCS comsumption has increased dramatically since the 1970s when it was developed and so has obesity. It has not been proven that there is a link, but the average American consumed 39 pounds of HFCS in 1980 and 62.6 pounds in 2001.

Mayo Clinic (http://mayoclinic.com/health/high-fructose-corn-syrup/AN01588)

While research continues, moderation remains important. Many beverages and other processed foods made with high-fructose corn syrup and other sweeteners are high in calories and low in nutritional value. Regularly including these products in your diet has the potential to promote obesity — which, in turn, promotes conditions such as type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure and coronary artery disease.

Women's Fitness Diet Tips (http://womensdietandfitness.com/WDF/why-to-avoid-foods-containing-high-fructose-corn-syrup/)

Accidental Hedonist List (http://www.accidentalhedonist.com/index.php/2005/06/09/foods_and_products_containing_high_fruct)

Baking and Cooking ingredients

Kellogg's® Corn Flake Crumbs
Nabisco Oreo Cookie Crumbs
Shake n Bake - Tangy Honey Glaze
Shake n Bake - Honey Mustard Glaze
Stove Top Stuffing - Chicken
Stove Top Stuffing - Cornbread
Stove Top Stuffing - Homestyle Herb
Stove Top Stuffing - Pork
Stove Top Stuffing - Turkey

[Strike For The South]

Good point on the meats. I try to buy the grass fed stuff but even here where most of the cows are raised it still costs a pretty penny.

[seireikhaan]

Good point on the meats. I try to buy the grass fed stuff but even here where most of the cows are raised it still costs a pretty penny.
Nothin' wrong with the corn in feed. Just don't eat it.

[Lemur]

Good point on the meats. I try to buy the grass fed stuff but even here where most of the cows are raised it still costs a pretty penny.
Mrs. Lemur sources our meat from local farmers, but you're right, it costs more to eat the grass-fed stuff. We treat red meat like a special occasion now, eating it maybe once a week. The rest of the time it's chicken (clean chicken is a lot less expensive than clean beef) or pork, or no meat. I'm not convinced this is a bad way to eat. I doubt our ancestors had a half-pound of red meat every day.

[Strike For The South]

Nothin' wrong with the corn in feed. Just don't eat it.

It is when messes with the moo-moo cows my friend.

[naut]

I'm glad I live in Australia, here we produce too much cane sugar! And it's in everything! ~:wacko:

(Red meat is pretty reasonably priced here too!) :2thumbsup:

[Major Robert Dump]

This is an article from George Will from a few weeks back. Very insightful:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/06/AR2009030602070.html

[InsaneApache]

I doubt our ancestors had a half-pound of red meat every day.

Nail meet Mr. Hammers head. :yes:

I changed my diet considerably after my coronary. I didn't eat much red meat before but now I only eat it once or twice a week. Chicken's better but even there they add all sorts of stuff to the feed. Antibiotics, hormones etc. Fish is better still, though I don't s'pose there's much cod in Iowa! :laugh4:

I'm lucky that I can cook from scratch. I taught myself over the years, I had too. Mrs. Apache MKI was a looker and all that but cooking left her in a maze. I'd have clemmed to death if I'd had to depend on her cooking skills.

Also don't they make that awful 'cider' White Lightning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lightning_(cider)) from corn syrup? A boon for the winos. :wall:

[Idaho]

HFCS is in everything in the US - I think partly because the whole industry was subject to massive subsidies and govt intervention. Something to do with the US having to break reliance on Cuban sugar? (I could be wrong).

I've heard that your food all has a particular flavour because of it.

Personally I don't eat any processed sugar at all (except alcohol - and even there in moderation and generally in wine rather than beer).

[Major Robert Dump]

It's also cheaper than sugar, by a long shot. Even without government subsidies it would be cheaper, the subsidies just drive the price down more. Theres a reason other nations use sugar in things where we stopped long ago. I think It also keeps longer, and in drinks it doesn't require shaking.

I only drink diet soda but will on occasion drink an old fashioned Coke or DP I can pick up in one of the ethnic stores because its made with sugar and just tastes better. Most juices sold at the grocery are mostly corn syrup, and the price of straight up cranberry without syrup is literally twice the syrupy crap, so I drink pretty much Apple only. Can't screw that up. At least not until they find a substitute for apples that is cheaper. Unfortunately a lot of people don't know this and drown their kids in Sunny D, because it looks like orange juice, and tropical punch because its red.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Meh, 'mericuns must eat corn or my understanding of the world will shatter. :shame:

The world has three great civilizations: Europe wheat, East Asia rice, and the Americas corn.

From their wheat the Italians make pasta, the French bread and the Belgians beer. Holidays, the pace of life, the use of space, settlement patterns, they are all the product of wheat. Wheat is the very essence, the very foundation stone of European civilization. From which all else is derived.

Rice functions likewise in East Asia. Asian population patterns, political systems, culture and customs are all to be traced back to the demands of growing rice.

The Americans, both north and South of the Rio Grande, before and after Columbus, have a civilization build on corn. (That, and free-roaming beef) This is the ulterior reason behind anything American, from where and how they live to the nature of their health problems.

So I must side with Iowa on this one. Corn - love it or leave America!

[Strike For The South]

You just want me fat

[Lemur]

I had no idea Louis was a plumplover (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=50840115).

[Louis VI the Fat]

Gah! You people American, or what? Eat yer corn!


All civilizations have a spiritual centre. For America, this is not New York. That is an island near America. Founded by Dutch traders, afraid of the interior. European, cosmopolitan, semi-detached from America.

America is the heartland. Carving out an existence here, tilling the soil is what makes an American. The heart of the heartland is Chicago. The real capital of America. The city that more than any other has historically captured the imagination of the outside world. Within Chicago, lies the sanctum sanctorum of the United States. Their Pyramids, their Acropolis, their Louvre. Here you have it, the essence of a civilization cut in stone:


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2340/2238452221_db5b4c38c4.jpg


https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5653/060505corn03.jpg (https://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=060505corn03.jpg)




The Corn Cobs. What is more, it combines corn with that other essential ingredient of America: mobility and the automobile. Those are not windows in the bottom half, but parking places. Park a car, and it looks like a single corn kernel. During traffic hours, it looks like God is eating them like corn.

Brilliant, brilliant! With the exception of Disneyland, the very greatest works of art in America. They are simply perfect!!! :2thumbsup:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We'll still have apples Louis.

[drone]

I was hoping the disastrous corn ethanol fiasco would raise the price of HFCS to the point where cane sugar could compete and we could see colas made the old-fashioned way. Oh well, it was not to be.

[Lemur]

You can still buy Coca-Cola made with sugar, you just have to get the stuff from Mexico. It's against the law to use HFCS in drinks there, I guess. The supermercado in our little town carries the stuff; I picked up case for our last party. People really liked it.

[seireikhaan]

Its good to see at least Louis understands that Iowa is the true capital of the USA. :yes:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I had no idea Louis was a plumplover (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=50840115).

Banquo:

I know he's a fellow moderator and all that, but is the SOME way we can ban him for this....please. :wall:

The scratches I inflicted on my eyes will take days to heal.

[Lemur]

The great thing is that you had to check the whole video to make sure no frank'n'beans were shown. You're welcome!

[Banquo's Ghost]

Luckily Seamus, you got there first, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Thanks for taking one for the team. :evil:

[Xiahou]

Why all the red meat hate? It's good for you (http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/healthy_eating/meat_beats_obesity.htm).

I think the HFCS campaign is in response to some stories claiming it contained unsafe levels of mercury, which I'm pretty sure is also bunk. My only problem with HFCS is that it's prevalence is due to unfair subsidies.

[BigTex]

I love the fact that their ad campaign is "It's just as healthy as sugar!" :laugh4:

I'm not convinced that it's significantly worse than sugar though.

HFCS contains slightly more fructose then granulated sugar. Which also depends on if it's cane or beat, and whether it's white or brown. Fructose in the presence of glucose turns into one of the highest gi carbs you can consume. You only need a few grams of fructose a day, the rest will be stored as fat. Their both still pretty bad though, beat white sugar is 50/50 fructose to glucose. Any kind of sugar should really be used sparingly


Mrs. Lemur sources our meat from local farmers, but you're right, it costs more to eat the grass-fed stuff. We treat red meat like a special occasion now, eating it maybe once a week. The rest of the time it's chicken (clean chicken is a lot less expensive than clean beef) or pork, or no meat. I'm not convinced this is a bad way to eat. I doubt our ancestors had a half-pound of red meat every day.

Chicken's fed with corn also. Also the wonderful lawyers of those meat companies have come up with ways to allow them to advertise that they are grass fed even though they've been corn fed. Cattle are fed up till the first 6 weeks off grass, after being weened. So most meat that states that it's grass fed is most likely still cornfed. You have to look for 100% grassfed, or 100% free range.

Oh and SFTS T-Nation kicks ***, good articles on there.

[Major Robert Dump]

the problem with the unfair advantages of corn subsidies isn't so much as the HFCS issue etc, but more so that if ever the subsidies stop the price of meat and sugar-filled products will virtually skyrocket. And I'm talking huge increase in price for what people often see as food staples, so I can see how protecting the subsidies can be seen as protecting the consumers, nonetheless it's wrong, and as we in the army like to say its setting us up for failure

[Yoyoma1910]

The over production of corn is actually a major environmental disaster. The run off from these lands is the primary cause of a dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico that is about the size of the state of New Jersey.

dead zone (http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/)

[Papewaio]

I thought HFCS doesn't counter the triggers that cause the desire for something sweet anywhere near as fast as cane sugar. Basically you need to consume far more of it before the body goes 'full' and the hunger pangs go.

=][=

Its pretty hard here to get anything other then grass fed cattle.

Generally most meat cuts are $10 to $20 (sometimes up to $30) a kilo.

Or in US terms $3.50 to $7 a pound for most cuts with some things like scotch fillets $10 a pound.

[Major Robert Dump]

I thought HFCS doesn't counter the triggers that cause the desire for something sweet anywhere near as fast as cane sugar. Basically you need to consume far more of it before the body goes 'full' and the hunger pangs go.

=][=

Its pretty hard here to get anything other then grass fed cattle.

Generally most meat cuts are $10 to $20 (sometimes up to $30) a kilo.

Or in US terms $3.50 to $7 a pound for most cuts with some things like scotch fillets $10 a pound.

Gah, even the finest cuts here are 7.99 per pound tops, and that for high end stuff thats fresh off the block. I can usually finds a 2 pound corn-fed London broil or Ribeye for about 9 US dollars fresh, 6 dollars 3 days old, and that not buying in bulk but at the grocer.

The grass fed stuff, however, is a good 25% more expensive straight up, and there's less of it around which raises the price during droughts. Honestly, I can't taste the difference unless theres also a fat content variable, but I'd rather not eat the corny beef as it does not contribute to the subsidy sham. Grass fed farmers have a hard scrabble and are highly vulnerable to weather fluctuations, and I'm more than happy to support them because they are the real farmers, not jimmy the corn king.

[Samurai Waki]

I guess its a good thing that I'm living in a place where a good 90% of Cattle Raised is Grass Fed, mostly because Montana is great for growing grain, and really... not much else, including corn. Although admittedly, I can't really tell the difference in taste between grain fed and corn fed Cattle.

[Major Robert Dump]

It has less to do with taste and more to do with the fact that you are not contributing to unfair subsides and supporting people who actually work for a living

[Louis VI the Fat]

the wonderful lawyers of those meat companies have come up with ways to allow them to advertise that they are grass fed even though they've been corn fed. Corn is a grass. Corn fed cattle IS grass fed cattle. Corn cobs are nothing but the reproductive organ of grass, genetically modified by Native Americans to enormous size. But nevertheless still just grass. :book:

So I, for one, am pleased to see that reason and the law have protected America's brave corn farmers against the vile lies of the anti-corn lobby.



-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<<<*>>>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-


More importantly, I am still very dismayed at the disappointingly low level of patriottism displayed by some Americans in this thread. :no:


Corn IS America.

Rice is China. The demands of growing rice require intense cooperation. Central organisation and government. It creates a densely populated society. Which in turn creates an extensive set of phenomenally elaborate social customs. Which safeguards the stability of a highly demanding, dense society. Etcetera.

Many Americans find it hard to accept that corn shaped America. Whereas most will all agree that cotton shaped the South. Cotton created the South's race relations, its unfreedom and an aristocracy under King Cotton. And much more, enduring to this very day.
Likewise, corn shaped America. Especially after the Civil War. Your bodies are made of corn, your landscape is build and altered because of corn (see, for example, Yoyoma's posts above about the 'dead zone'), your political institutions are shaped by corn, even America's gender roles are the product of corn. Corn created America's freedom, as cotton created its unfreedom. Therefore, it is every American patriot's duty to preserve freedom throught the consumption of ungodly amounts of corn. :yes:


For example, Kelly Sisson, Master of Millions: King Corn in American Culture, 1861-1936 (http://sitemaker.umich.edu/ksisson/dissertation):



My work also builds upon work by agricultural historians by framing corn’s place in U.S. society as connected to ecologies, economies, technological innovation, political cultures, and the imagination. This project expands on work in social and cultural history, which frequently overlook the issue of food systems, by placing the quest for corn, and the concomitant issues of land use and social change, at the center of the construction of ideas about gender, race, and nation.

Furthermore, “King Corn” extends the ideas of social and cultural history by showing how producers and consumers exhibited cultural agency by influencing one another, by examining how cultural products associated with corn, such as academic work, marketing materials, legislation, media coverage, corn-themed associations, and food, circulated, and by illuminating how local, national, and global cultural practices affected one another.


1) Civil-War-era northerners adopting republican agrarianism, and Republican politics, in a project of displacing “King Cotton” to make “Corn King”; 2) how meteorology, research stations, and railroads shaped Corn Belt geographies, cultivation practices, and cultural productions; 3) the dissemination of academic knowledge to farming communities and the related construction of links between progressive farming and masculinity; 4) roles of government oversight and thinking on gender and farming in early-twentieth-century boys’ corn clubs and contests; 5) how U.S. policymakers and corn advocates responded to corn surpluses by using ideologies of domesticity and women’s work to increase domestic and international human consumption of corn; 6) influence of ideas about gender roles and family responsibilities on marketing and demand for refined corn products like Kellogg’s Corn Flakes, Karo corn syrup, and Mazola corn oil.

The processes related to producing and consuming corn in the United States during the seven decades between the Civil War and the Great Depression have a great deal of resonance in a world today where government policies, environmental change, food systems, patterns in public health, the construction of international treaties, and global economies all shape and are shaped by this staff of life.

[Major Robert Dump]

Thank you, Louis, for you have made my day

[seireikhaan]

The over production of corn is actually a major environmental disaster. The run off from these lands is the primary cause of a dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico that is about the size of the state of New Jersey.

dead zone (http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/)
Actually, it pretty much blows for the midwest too. Topsoil starts eroding much faster when you keep planting the same thing year after year after year after year. Long run- Less fertile land.

[Louis VI the Fat]

America's Corn Palaces.


Every civilization builds temples for what it considers its most sacred, central institutions. The pyramids of ancient Egypt reflect the eternity of the Nile and the pharaoh. Cathedrals reflect the order of Medieval Europe. The construction of royal palaces reflect the ascent of kings in Europe in the 19th and 20th century.

In America, temples to corn were erected. All the buildings below are constructed of corn. Their iconography tells the story of a corn empire. Inside, they house concert halls, exhibition spaces, prayer rooms, harvest celebrations. In short, they reflect and create the binding elements of a culture. A civilization. The one thing that is lacking, is an aestethic style. The palaces are build in a variety of exotic, ecclectic styles, bordering on the excentric. America lacked a distinct aestethic order of its own. (As it still hasn't and probably never will - though there have been times when I did think I discovered overarching elements of style, uniquely American. I am still not sure)

Note, that these corn palaces are older than either the Grand Palais in Paris or Buckingham palace in London. (Which is one of my pet peeves. America is in many respects much older than Europe. A fact that mostly goes overlooked on both sides of the Atlantic) Notions of France as a nation of culture, and of Britain as a timeless monarchy are not at all older, and in many respects even newer, than the notion of America as a freedom loving-corn empire:


https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2817/cornpalace18911.jpg (https://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cornpalace18911.jpg)

https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5224/cornpalaceu.jpg (https://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cornpalaceu.jpg)

https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1331/cornpalace.jpg (https://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cornpalace.jpg)

https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1641/cornpalacetopper.jpg (https://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cornpalacetopper.jpg)



Thank you, Louis, for you have made my dayThanks. I am having a ball in this thread. ~;)

Confusingly, in this thread even I am not sure what I mean in earnest and what is lighthearted diversion. (Actually, most of the time I am not quite sure)
However that may be, I didn't want to waste the fine opportunity this thread provided to share and indulge in some of my fascinations about the US.

[drone]

Corn IS America.

What a load of hooey. Everyone knows tobacco is the foundation of America. ~;)

[Gregoshi]

Everyone knows tobacco is the foundation of America. ~;)
Now that's cig-worthy.

[Yoyoma1910]

Actually, it pretty much blows for the midwest too. Topsoil starts eroding much faster when you keep planting the same thing year after year after year after year. Long run- Less fertile land.

I might hate you... if not for the fact that Iowa makes the greatest American cheese.

[seireikhaan]

I might hate you... if not for the fact that Iowa makes the greatest American cheese.
Great American cheese is an oxymoron. Americans generally no idea what the heck they're doing when it comes to cheese.

[Yoyoma1910]

Great American cheese is an oxymoron. Americans generally no idea what the heck they're doing when it comes to cheese.

I didn't say "Great American cheese," I said the greatest American cheese.


And there is American cheese that is comparable to European standards. For instance, in Iowa there is Maytag Blue. Which is a cave aged blue cheese similar in texture and flavor to Bleu D'Auvergne. It is actually very nice, I have a 4 lb wheel of it in my fridge I'm about halfway through.

The trick is that you have to look beyond factory produced cheeses, to the cottage industry versions.

[Lemur]

Great American cheese is an oxymoron. Americans generally no idea what the heck they're doing when it comes to cheese.
Just be glad you didn't speak such a thing in the great state of Wisconsin. I've seen men kicked to death for less.

[Vladimir]

Vermont is world renowned for some of it's cheeses.

[Major Robert Dump]

Um, Watonga, dude, Watonga

http://www.watongacheesefestival.com/

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Vermont is world renowned for some of it's cheeses.

Vermont cheddar is by far the best American cheddar. And apparently the one closest to UK cheddars.

[Gregoshi]

Cheese fight!! Of course, the Swiss will remain neutral...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Cheese fight!! Of course, the Swiss will remain neutral...

As will the vatican, for a similar reason...

[KukriKhan]

Louis, are you sure it's a good idea to try to awaken America from its corn-fed slumber? To make them suddenly conscious of the factors that drove them to the need for ever-expanding frontiers, 'rugged individualism', 'make-do-on-your-own'-ism? And all the other -ism's of which they're blissfully unaware?

They think it's humanity's normal, natural state - everybody is like this. And then get disappointed when our corn-fed capitalistic republicanism doesn't export well to other regions. Regions based on rice production, or river flooding schedules, or ice-movement tables, or tropical island fruit harvesting, or triple-canopy jungle gathering.

Maybe it is a good idea, now that ever-expanding frontiers are dwindling, capacities are being reached, corn has to be infused via its liquification. We might have to soon find another way to use corn, or find a substitute - which could call for some reordering of work, culture and society.

-translation-
I always feel like a lab-rat, caught with the reward cheese, whenever Louis describes or analyzes the US. :)

[Gregoshi]

-translation-
I always feel like a lab-rat, caught with the reward cheese...
At least that means you successfully navigated the maise. ~D

[Yoyoma1910]

At least that means you successfully navigated the maise. ~D

That may be a fairly corny pun, but I detect a certain kernel of truth in it.

[InsaneApache]

cob blers.

[Gregoshi]

cob blers.
Aw' shucks IA, your pun was non-sense until I looked it up.

[Major Robert Dump]

Game of the year:

http://www.allgamesallfree.com/games1947-corn-in-the-poop.html

[Aemilius Paulus]

You can still buy Coca-Cola made with sugar, you just have to get the stuff from Mexico. It's against the law to use HFCS in drinks there, I guess. The supermercado in our little town carries the stuff; I picked up case for our last party. People really liked it.
Heh, yeah, when I go to Europe and particularly Russia in the summers, I get to try Russian Coke. And boy does it taste well compared to US Coke. It is as is it is an entirely new drink. The difference is humongous. It is so much fresher and better.

Aside from the taste and the weight gain due to the extra calories from high fructose content, HFCS is absolutely fine. Just a different sweetener that is all. Glucose, sucrose, fructose, mannose, raffinose, lactose, maltose, etc are all merely different types of sugar. No distinctions should be amde between "natural" and "artificial" for there is no difference. Plenty of natural sugar substitutes are harmful as well.

[Strike For The South]

.

Aside from the taste and the weight gain due to the extra calories from high fructose content, HFCS is absolutely fine. Just a different sweetener that is all. Glucose, sucrose, fructose, mannose, raffinose, lactose, maltose, etc are all merely different types of sugar. No distinctions should be amde between "natural" and "artificial" for there is no difference. Plenty of natural sugar substitutes are harmful as well.

Did you read the article?

[Aemilius Paulus]

Did you read the article?
Yes, I did. I have read numerous articles on it as well as other similar things. Such as hydrogenated (trans fat) which is in reality no different from normal saturated fat. The only difference one is made "naturally" and the other in a laboratory/factory.

That particular article was :daisy:. Not only was it from an extremely questionable source, but also the science in the article was bended and smeared with ignorance. No way in heaven or hell an MD wrote that. Saying "natural" in a health article is the number one indicator of :daisy:. Any real educated person knows there is no distinction between "natural" and "artificial".

Basically, all HFCS is is compressed sucrose. It does the same thing as normal sugar, but it is highly concentrated, so symptoms of overuse appear very quickly.


Oh, and after seeing woeful state of scientific proficiency of these forums, especially at the "random thought thread", I am going to abstain from further visiting or arguing in any of the threads that have to do with science. Either that or someone who actually knows something in science will have to come up. People are truly stunning in history on these forums, and some individuals shine brighter than stars with their knowledge, such as Sarmatian or PanzerJaeger among the few, but it seems that very few people devote their lives to both history and science, which is what I am doing. Seriously, "space is cold"? The heck? I thought that by 8th grade everyone knows that vacuum has no temperature.

[Xiahou]

Yes, I did. I have read numerous articles on it as well as other similar things. Such as hydrogenated (trans fat) which is in reality no different from normal saturated fat. The only difference one is made "naturally" and the other in a laboratory/factory.

That particular article was Bull:daisy:. Not only was it from an extremely questionable source, but also the science in the article was bended and smeared with ignorance. No way in heaven or hell an MD wrote that. Saying "natural" in a health article is the number one indicator of Bull:daisy:. Any real educated person knows there is no distinction between "natural" and "atificial".

Basically, all HFCS is is compressed sucrose. It does the same thing as normal sugar, but it is highly concentrated, so symptoms of overuse appear very quickly. I agree completely. :bow:
My BS alarm was ringing nonstop as I read that article.

[Strike For The South]

Yes, I did. I have read numerous articles on it as well as other similar things. Such as hydrogenated (trans fat) which is in reality no different from normal saturated fat. The only difference one is made "naturally" and the other in a laboratory/factory.

That particular article was Bull:daisy:. Not only was it from an extremely questionable source, but also the science in the article was bended and smeared with ignorance. No way in heaven or hell an MD wrote that. Saying "natural" in a health article is the number one indicator of Bull:daisy:. Any real educated person knows there is no distinction between "natural" and "artificial".

Basically, all HFCS is is compressed sucrose. It does the same thing as normal sugar, but it is highly concentrated, so symptoms of overuse appear very quickly.

There's no difference between natural an artificial? Really? HFCS is in everything we drink and nearly everything we eat and do you think it's merely coincidence that when sugar was replaced obesity skyrocketed.




Oh, and after seeing woeful state of scientific proficiency of these forums, especially at the "random thought thread", I am going to abstain from further visiting or arguing in any of the threads that have to do with science. Either that or someone who actually knows something in science will have to come up. People are truly stunning in history on these forums, and some individuals shine brighter than stars with their knowledge, such as Sarmatian or PanzerJaeger among the few, but it seems that very few people devote their lives to both history and science, which is what I am doing. Seriously, "space is cold"? The heck? I thought that by 8th grade everyone knows that vacuum has no temperature.

Is this legit enough for you? (http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/ast99/ast99383.htm)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There's no difference between natural an artificial? Really? HFCS is in everything we drink and nearly everything we eat and do you think it's merely coincidence that when sugar was replaced obesity skyrocketed.

Humans are natural; therefore "artificial" is natural. Would you say fission reactors are artificial? They can occur naturally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor). In truth, when a food product is advertised as natural they get it from the bark of some rare tree or from crushed beetles. Why not make it in a lab where you know exactly what you are getting? There are many harmful, yet natural, substances.

Obesity may be correlated with HFCS, but that doesn't mean there aren't other reasons. What about the rise of computers and the internet leading to a more sedentary lifestyle? I believe studies show that as more people become fat, the level of fatness seen as acceptable rises. I don't think you can show a clear link between hfcs and obesity. Obesity levels have increased by huge amounts and there simply isn't enough of a difference between hfcs and sugar to account for that.

[Marshal Murat]

Obesity may be correlated with HFCS, but that doesn't mean there aren't other reasons. What about the rise of computers and the internet leading to a more sedentary lifestyle? I believe studies show that as more people become fat, the level of fatness seen as acceptable rises. I don't think you can show a clear link between hfcs and obesity. Obesity levels have increased by huge amounts and there simply isn't enough of a difference between hfcs and sugar to account for that.

HFCS, as I said before, isn't simply in candy and soda. It's in everything. It's in the meat (chicken, salmon, trout, beef, pork, turkey, etc.) you eat, in most potato chips, Pop-tarts, cookies, fillers, everything. While sedentary lifestyles have changed how we do things, it's not helped by the massive intake of HFCS that every person in America has. We've put sugar into everything we eat, and it's killing us.

[Papewaio]

Gah, even the finest cuts here are 7.99 per pound tops, and that for high end stuff thats fresh off the block. I can usually finds a 2 pound corn-fed London broil or Ribeye for about 9 US dollars fresh, 6 dollars 3 days old, and that not buying in bulk but at the grocer.

The grass fed stuff, however, is a good 25% more expensive straight up, and there's less of it around which raises the price during droughts. Honestly, I can't taste the difference unless theres also a fat content variable, but I'd rather not eat the corny beef as it does not contribute to the subsidy sham. Grass fed farmers have a hard scrabble and are highly vulnerable to weather fluctuations, and I'm more than happy to support them because they are the real farmers, not jimmy the corn king.

Those prices are for prepackaged in a supermarket. Can get whole rump for $15kg from a butcher ($5 a pound)