Expel or Enslave?

[jsadighi]

Currently playing as the Hayasdan and have managed to recapture much of the former Acamenid lands from rebels/Seleukids/Ptolemies. So far, I've used the "Enslave" option to quell any citizen unrest caused by Hellenic settlers upon capturing a new settlement. However, most of my generals have a problem with this activity since it goes against their moral principles (they get the Restless Sleeper trait). So I'm considering Expelling citizens instead of Enslaving them (I doubt the old Persian King of Kings Cyrus I and Darius I would have approved of enslaving people) so that my generals can feel a little more compassionate about their actions.

My question is this, will Expelling the citizenry have the same unrest reduction affect that Enslaving provides?

[A Very Super Market]

It still takes away a good portion of the population, and simply moves it to your other cities. It will have less unrest reduction, but gives you a pop.growth bonus.

Use it on cities that you can't be bothered to put a garrison in, but are still growing and not huge yet.

Always enslave huge cities, they can't be held with only an expelling, unless you take it twice

[jsadighi]

Thanks ~:thumb:

[miotas]

if you use selfish generals they don't usually get those bad traits

[A Very Super Market]

Well, I believe "crudelis" for the Romans, or one of the "racist" traits will negate the enslaving effects, but its just an educated guess

[Nachtmeister]

Be aware that "expel" moves exactly half of the population - and it moves them to exactly those among your cities that have a governor. Thus, you could move half of the population of Persepolis directly to Trapezous by making sure you have a governor in Trapezous and having all other governors step out of their cities right before the battle for Persepolis.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Well, I believe "crudelis" for the Romans, or one of the "racist" traits will negate the enslaving effects, but its just an educated guess
It is a guess. I have never seen "crudelis" appear in generals. They were always born with it. Well, almost always. All the triggers but one are triggers that act only at the coming of age or adoption of a general. There is also a trigger that says that when a bloke with the "harsh ruler" traits end a turn in a settlement, he has 3% chance of acquiring the trait.

And what "racist" traits are you talking of? "Hates Foreigners"?

[Nachtmeister]

There are even culture-specific ones, "hates grasping carthaginians" or "hates clever-clever greeks" or "hates smelly barbarians" for instance... So maybe these would, aside from the command-bonus for fighting the specific cultures, also affect the result of enslaving a population?

[Aemilius Paulus]

There are even culture-specific ones, "hates grasping carthaginians" or "hates clever-clever greeks" or "hates smelly barbarians" for instance... So maybe these would, aside from the command-bonus for fighting the specific cultures, also affect the result of enslaving a population?
Oh yes, thank you for reminding me. But no, those do not affect enslavement. Just open up EDCT and read it for a couple of weeks. That is what I did, and it was entertaining, and most of all, it was useful. Especially the triggers section.

[seienchin]

Why does everybody in here thinks that enslaving or extermianting directly reduces the unrest?
It simply reduces the population by 2/3(Half when transforming to other cities) and that causes a stabilizing effect. :book:
Proof me wrong if I am... ^^

[antisocialmunky]

Only really the exterminating. Enslaving moves the problem everywhere. I usually gorw my cities in EB to ridiculous sizes and keep normal taxes so I've never been troubled with it.

[Fluvius Camillus]

You will only get the restless sleeper trait once, if you have it it can't get any worse than that, the restless sleeper trait only has a minor penalty, it does not really matter.

I just enslave any city that is hard to control, it works for me.


Only really the exterminating. Enslaving moves the problem everywhere. I usually gorw my cities in EB to ridiculous sizes and keep normal taxes so I've never been troubled with it.

Remember EB changed the fate of the settlement system in name at EB 1.1, actually its exactly the same, name has only changed. The vanilla enslave became expel and the vanilla exterminate became enslave, the effects are EXACTLY the same, very confusing though.

[antisocialmunky]

Obviously, I'm just too old school.

[Atraphoenix]

there was a "butcher" trait in vanilla If you killed many men in a battle. I think it is not present in EB.
BTW I am checking trait list.

yes there it is. so if you enslave twice you will get "butcher" trait :hmg:

[TheStranger]

Remember EB changed the fate of the settlement system in name at EB 1.1, actually its exactly the same, name has only changed. The vanilla enslave became expel and the vanilla exterminate became enslave, the effects are EXACTLY the same, very confusing though.

Hmm why was this actually changed?

[Nachtmeister]

Hmm why was this actually changed?

The team felt that this would better represent what was actually done in real history, IIRC.

[Atraphoenix]

The team felt that this would better represent what was actually done in real history, IIRC.
Romans exterminated many cities to the last man in history. But Methinks there is not any 4th option bar so they changed the name. or no one tried it to add a 4th choice after conquest. I still think it is hardcoded in the game engine.
Gallic wars of Caesar are one of the cruelest examples of exterminations.

[tynnmahn]

$.02

I always use the one that kills people, the bottom one. Because unrest is a crazy pain to try to control, so I just kill em off. Yeah, it takes longer to recruit and build up the city, but I don't have to worry so much about putting down stupid rebels all the time.

In EB this isn't so much of a problem because they have more "buildings" to help with this, but in Vanilla (where I started playing) this is a real pain in the rump so I just adobted the whole "kill em all and let God sort em out" type of conquering. If I need reinforcement, I get them from home, this helps keep the "main" provinces population under control as well.

-edit: It's not the "unrest" that is so hard to control, it is the stupid squalor that gets out of control and causes the other problems. I hate squalor...

[Atraphoenix]

-edit: It's not the "unrest" that is so hard to control, it is the stupid squalor that gets out of control and causes the other problems. I hate squalor...
build more baths lol :laugh4:
also some temples have health bonuses.

[Raygereio]

build more baths lol :laugh4:
also some temples have health bonuses.
The only thing I noticed to actually decrease squalor are traits and acilliaries that have minus squalor effects.
Building the next governor-building will only halt the squalor increase temporally.

I only see health bonusses increase Population Growth and more population soon means more squalor! Joy!

[Atraphoenix]

vicious circle! :yes:

[tynnmahn]

and that is why I hate squalor....

Kill em all and the squalor problem goes away for awhile. But like I said, EB is better at giving more "law and order" type bonus buildings so it isn't as bad as in vanilla.

[tynnmahn]

another thing that I used to do in vanilla BI which was really kind of a cheat was if unrest and squalor got too much of a pain to deal with, I'd wait until I could build the next city upgrade, start it, then raise the taxes and pull the entire garison out of the city and let it revolt.

Then I'd reconquer it and exterminate the rebellious SOB's. Most of the time, it worked like a charm.

[miotas]

or you could just do add_population -4000 :idea2:

[Atraphoenix]

if you have a vast empire changing your capitals towards to rebellion area helps a bit. That is what I did after bactrian land rioted I changed my capital from Susa to ex-capital Heka with Pahlava.

[tynnmahn]

or you could just do add_population -4000 :idea2:

yeah, didn't know about that one. I guess I could do that. But I feel that rounding up and killing the rebellious bastards is more in keeping with what would have really happened :)

[Atraphoenix]

without cheating you can reduce population by recruiting units that have 240 men in their cohort. It is also good for realism and roleplaying. I recruit freed slaves from the rioting cities and send them to low populated towns. Plus during their voyage bandits attack them very realist. the survivors reaches a small town and make it a city. but when you capture a new city that is far away from your capital extermination is the only choice. otherwise you have to reconquer it. just look in the fate menu the city is red or not. small towns mostly dark blue that means enslave not necassary but cities large cities and the towns far away should be enslaved.