View Full Version : Faction Uniformity
Megas Methuselah
04-13-2009, 09:41
I'm just wondering about how uniform the units of a faction will be. With the multiple skins per unit, hopeful this uniformity will be reduced. :yes:
For those who have idea about what the heck I'm talking, I'm going back to EB1 and how many Epeirote units were dressed in green. It was a great faction and great textures, but in comparison to the units of other factions, I didn't particularly enjoy this green uniformity.
I think hardly any units will be uniform, though maybe you meant something else or you could be drinking too much energy drinks, caffeine or beer.:clown::beam:
Martelus Flavius
04-13-2009, 11:30
No Uniformity! except a kind of it for certain state equipped troops.
At best you will find a reccurence of emblems on the shields (to represent a local god, etc..), or equipement types.
Regards
Martel
oudysseos
04-13-2009, 12:22
Indeed, this is one of the things that is taking so much time.
Iskander 3.1
04-14-2009, 01:33
It will be well worth the wait!
Megas Methuselah
04-14-2009, 07:56
No Uniformity! except a kind of it for certain state equipped troops.
At best you will find a reccurence of emblems on the shields (to represent a local god, etc..), or equipement types.
Regards
Martel
So, exceptions made for state-equipped troops, chances are the Epeirotes, even if their armour is varied, won't all be wearing green tunics? :yes:
That made me think: Why did Epeiros where green?
keravnos
04-14-2009, 08:39
How can one possibly answer such a question?
This was decided upon much prior to me being a member of EB, so I can't really say.
machinor
04-14-2009, 15:04
That made me think: Why did Epeiros where green?
Simple answer: why not?
Spartiaths
04-14-2009, 16:23
That made me think: Why did Epeiros where green?
If epeiros wasn't green what colour would be suitable?
If epeiros wasn't green what colour would be suitable?
garance?:clown:
keravnos
04-14-2009, 16:27
Like I said, this has been decided upon prior to me joining the mod. Therefore I don't know which were the guiding reasons for that choice. It could have been any other color. I honestly think there isn't any meaning in this thread.
One of the easiest answers that come to mind, is that Epeiros is green. Very mountainous but green all year, because in it there is the most precipitation in Greece. In Epeiros it rains, even during the summer. The level of precipitation in Epeiros is about the same as Hungary.
Bucefalo
04-14-2009, 16:37
Well, my guess is that it could be related to the oracle of Dodona? I did a quick search and wikipedia says: Priestesses and priests in the sacred grove interpreted the rustling of the oak (or beech) leaves to determine the correct actions to be taken.
So something related to those trees of the sanctuary?
Spartiaths
04-14-2009, 16:56
i believe that keravnos' thought is a more possible explanation
but all that about the color is somehow off topic and meaningless
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
04-14-2009, 21:33
Units developed early on in EB1 tended to have a similar color, but I can recall a couple times the Epeiros people asking for green to be changed to something else in a newer Epeiros unit.
I think it was just habit for the early skinners. If you are making units for five different factions, and you can only have one skin per faction, you want them to all look different from eachother. The easiest way of doing this is with base colors. How do you choose who gets what color? The faction's color on the minimap...
Megas Methuselah
04-15-2009, 20:29
Units developed early on in EB1 tended to have a similar color, but I can recall a couple times the Epeiros people asking for green to be changed to something else in a newer Epeiros unit.
I think it was just habit for the early skinners. If you are making units for five different factions, and you can only have one skin per faction, you want them to all look different from eachother. The easiest way of doing this is with base colors. How do you choose who gets what color? The faction's color on the minimap...
Will it be more difficult to tell one faction's unit apart from another faction's unit now? And don't shrug.
Tellos Athenaios
04-15-2009, 20:52
Will it be more difficult to tell one faction's unit apart from another faction's unit now? And don't shrug.
Have you kept up with the previews? :shrug:
That made me think: Why did Epeiros where green?
Pyrrhos was known to be an environmentalist, that's why he invaded Rome, to help fight global warming. :clown:
Vasiliyi
04-24-2009, 05:53
I was wondering about the uniformity myself. Will "barbarian" units see a complete lack of uniformity? What i mean is will they be able to not only look different, but have different weapons? One man gets a spear, another sword, and yet another an ax? Is this possible within engine limits or am dreaming? Still I would be cool. Even if their shields were different shapes.. That would make me drool.. I cant wait for this mod to be released. (BUT I WILL)
eddy_purpus
04-24-2009, 08:26
No Uniformity! except a kind of it for certain state equipped troops.
At best you will find a reccurence of emblems on the shields (to represent a local god, etc..), or equipement types.
Regards
Martel
so no more Green mercenaries?
:(
"yawns"
How much can different people in a unit vary? For example how many shields/helmets/uniforms can there be in one unit?
Megas Methuselah
04-24-2009, 20:35
I was wondering about the uniformity myself. Will "barbarian" units see a complete lack of uniformity? What i mean is will they be able to not only look different, but have different weapons? One man gets a spear, another sword, and yet another an ax? Is this possible within engine limits or am dreaming? Still I would be cool. Even if their shields were different shapes.. That would make me drool.. I cant wait for this mod to be released. (BUT I WILL)
Dreamz. :clown:
Mister V
04-24-2009, 21:37
Variety is great, but will we still see a stark difference between the magnificiently oppressive uniformity of the Romans and the rest? It was one of the reasons why I like to play as Rome in EB.
I was wondering about the uniformity myself. Will "barbarian" units see a complete lack of uniformity? What i mean is will they be able to not only look different, but have different weapons? One man gets a spear, another sword, and yet another an ax? Is this possible within engine limits or am dreaming?
Technically yes, although a unit can use only one set of animations, so mixing slashing weapons with stabbing weapons will result in weird combat moves. However, this won't happen since those weapons have different stats. According to a post by an EB member there will be some variation in the weapons within a unit, but all weapons will have the same stats (so no short swords and long swords in a unit, unless of course they go into different weapon slots).
Variety is great, but will we still see a stark difference between the magnificiently oppressive uniformity of the Romans and the rest? It was one of the reasons why I like to play as Rome in EB.
I doubt it: as far as we know the Romans did not issue uniforms. My impression is that the later Romans used only a few shield motifs, but even these would have been done by individual artists, so there would be variation. But I have read no historical sources on the matter, so I wouldn't really know. For all I know, the uniformity in shield motifs may be another myth.
There was a thread going over this a wee while back. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=115125
Majd il-Romani
04-26-2009, 18:32
How much can different people in a unit vary? For example how many shields/helmets/uniforms can there be in one unit?
im actually quite curious about this, can someone answer me this please?
Not sure about the limit of different sheilds/armour/helemts ect, but the EB team said they will do roughly 4-5 different patterns per faction in one of the Steles.
This one infact https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108997&highlight=stele+7
Today almost all soldiers wear green. Pyrrhus was just 2000-ish years ahead of the fashion trends.
A Very Super Market
04-26-2009, 23:57
Depends on where they are. Who would wear jungle camo in finland?
Watchman
04-27-2009, 00:15
Nobody in their right minds, that's for sure. Forest camo, OTOH...
Mind you, our military's standard wear is green too. The soldiers naturally have all kinds of interesting nicknames for it, but I understand "cucumber suit" is a popular one... :beam:
And don't let me get started on the Ghillie suit; the nickname for *that* involves references to some rather weird nooks of Finnish popular culture.
I was concerned that if all units were of heterogenous appearance that the battlefield might become an indistinguishable mess of bodies. Then I thought "good" as I imagine distinguishing friend from foe in battle was a real problem for real generals and warriors.
No doubt gross differences will be readily apparent, like naked gauls vs african cavalry, or Elephants vs chariots, but if a Macedonian spearman is dancing with a KH spearman, I don't mind if the difference isn't as glaring as orange and black.
I wonder if there is more that can be done in the way of confusing the battlefield. Can one crank up the amount of dust produced? That would be cool.
I love that terrifying scene in Alexander at Gaugamela when Parmenion on the left flank is being ground down and they are surrounded and there's dust everywhere so you can't see reinforcements coming etc. I enjoy playing general cam and visibility/LOS effects (rain, snow, sand, trees) really mess with my head in those battles, in a good way.
...
And don't let me get started on the Ghillie suit; the nickname for *that* involves references to some rather weird nooks of Finnish popular culture.
Moomintrolls? Or Vainamoinen?
Watchman
04-27-2009, 04:07
Nah. The popular nickname is "Röllipuku" ("Rölli suit"), after a troll by the same name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B6lli) in a kids' show... Well, he does rather look the part. (His clothes rather follow the tune of his, uh, hairdo...)
http://www.tunturisusi.com/joulu/rolli.jpg
Today almost all soldiers wear green. Pyrrhus was just 2000-ish years ahead of the fashion trends.
actually, its one of many colors that soldiers wear-none realy green.
the Israelis wear Olive drab, the US a grey-green color (or camo), the egyptians an olive or khaki color, etc.
but yeah, he was apperently ahead of his times. even his chaionian agema was ahead of his time, with their scarlet tunics-like redcoats :clown:
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/epeiros/epe_chaeonian_agema.gif
machinor
04-27-2009, 16:52
Aaaah the Chaionion Agema... I simply love'em. Especially when you select the and they shout "Chaonion AH-GEH-MAH!!" Totally badass. :beam:
gamegeek2
05-02-2009, 05:25
Aaaah the Chaionion Agema... I simply love'em. Especially when you select the and they shout "Chaonion AH-GEH-MAH!!" Totally badass.
Agreed.
Aemilius Paulus
05-10-2009, 03:44
Don't know about you guys, but I love the faction uniformity. I suppose I have a penchant for uniforms. Not to mention, I like the green shade Epriotes wear. And while we are on this topic, I also love the skin uniformity of all the soldiers in a single unit. I actually liked and still am fond of the "clone" troops of RTW.
Perhaps it is my authoritarianism and desire for people to conform speaking in me...
Baldamundo
05-10-2009, 13:24
Don't know about you guys, but I love the faction uniformity. I suppose I have a penchant for uniforms. Not to mention, I like the green shade Epriotes wear. And while we are on this topic, I also love the skin uniformity of all the soldiers in a single unit. I actually liked and still am fond of the "clone" troops of RTW.
Perhaps it is my authoritarianism and desire for people to conform speaking in me...
This^
Don't know about you guys, but I love the faction uniformity. I suppose I have a penchant for uniforms. Not to mention, I like the green shade Epriotes wear. And while we are on this topic, I also love the skin uniformity of all the soldiers in a single unit. I actually liked and still am fond of the "clone" troops of RTW.
Perhaps it is my authoritarianism and desire for people to conform speaking in me...
you know, I'm going to make my thoughts public*: the doctor/engineer theory on why the Arab world has such issues:
It is a known fact (among Arabs), and a famous Archetype, that the Arab parent wants their child to be one of two things, and to be the very best at those two things compred to everyone else: either a doctor, or an engineer (in arabic= ya'imma doctor aw muhandis). so they put a lot of money in that direction, as well as time, sweat, and evil genius; they will even resort to psychological torture and/or extortion (e.g. me), to get their children to conform to their dreams, rather than respect their children's dreams and desires.
however, 99% of the time, the parents will fail to make an engineer or doctor out of their children; instead, one of three things will happen: either the child gives them the middle finger/ or compramises and fulfills his dreams for him/herself (e.g. me), conform to the parents ridiculous notions, or the most common, say: "f*** it, I'm never going to be good enough for them. I'll just forget education". tragically, the third option is often the most common. As a result, those who fulfill their own true desires will be shunned from society as "infidels", "traitors", or "failures", those who do conform will, 99% of the time, suck at being doctors/engineers, and the rest will lack the necessary and proper skills to either support the doctor/engineer caste, or to do whatever they end up doing well; from here we see the azhar "scholars", wahhabis, the shi3a, the suicide bombers, crooks, garbage men, and mechanics. they will often be illiterate, uneducated, and without anything to go on besides their faith, which they interpret poorly, as a result of the lack of said education. of course, they will go on to try and make "engineers" and "doctors", so that their children can avoid their fate, only to repeat the cycle all over.
moral: imposing uniformity: works beautifully in RTW, but sucks in RL.
*don't worry AP-just being sarcastic. but its still true about the arab world, and a good read.:clown:
I'm disturbed that some authoritarians out there want uniformity in their units. Goddamit I demand complete subservience from everyone, no matter how they look. All must march at my command!:smash:
Really having hodgepodge gangs of ruffians swarming into battle alongside shinier (and maybe more uniformly attired) elites is gonna make EB2 sooo sexy.
... the doctor/engineer theory ..
Sounds like my Chinese friend, and my Jewish mates...
Is the real difference between the Arabs and the Jews that one lot wants their sons to be doctors or engineers, and the other lot wants their sons only to be doctors? Hmm a little OT I know.
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