training spy's and assassin's

[Aurgelmir]

How do you train spy's and assassin's?

I have assassin's with alot of good traits,but killing FM's is difficult.The % i get is so low sometimes,that its results in a obvious suicide
Reloading all the time REALLY sucks

Could someone pls tell me how to train them properly?

Almost the same goes with the spy's...

[Megalos Danielos Psychopatos]

1 - luck:beam: (to have candidate with good traits)
2 - recruit them in big cities with max upgraded merchants facilities and academies
3 - after recruit leave them in such city for some time (a year?)
4 - start training them: kill captains of small eleutheroi stacks; they will improve their abilities and get some good anciliaries
5 - when they are really good start hunting; kill FMs and raze buildings.

Good practice is to have few good spies in enemy city and then burn some law/happy buildings (or other important in that moment); when killing enemy FMs remember to try to hunt them when they are almost alone-no army, outside city. The better FM (influence) the harder assasination attempt. Faction leaders and heirs are almost impossible to kill. Any not succesful assasination attempt make FMs harder (they get some good "sentry" traits). Try to use assasins rather to kill enemy spies, wreak havoc and unrest in cities, and kill diplomats to prevent enemies from making alliances.

[miotas]

3 - after recruit leave them in such city for some time (a year?)

The longer the better, I'd say at least 5 but the more the better. The longer they are in there the more traits and ancillaries they pick up. I often leave agents in cities for 15+ years and then when I send them out they have close to 10 skill.

[Silence Hunter]

Also try looking for young and inexperienced family members. I once was able to kill 3 (16-21 age) family members in 3 turns. No matter how good your assassin gets it his chance to kill good FMs will still be low, pretty realistic I would say. However getting rid of those FMs that are possible to kill still helps.

Other strategy is to hire a lot of assassins (6-8) and send them against a single enemy FM. They will most probably all die, but the effect will be great anyway. Take the spy and check the traits of that unfortunate FM. He will, 9 times out of 10, be going almost crazy about the security and get loads of negative traits. Of course it will be impossible to kill him with all those security traits, but they will reduce his battle effectiveness (can't remember the exact effects, but I think it's reduction of command, morale and hitpoints all coming from a lot of different traits).

Have fun with assassins!

[Aurgelmir]

Like elvis said...Thank you very much

I will definitely try that assassin horde thing...maybe he goes nuts and kills his own men lol
And they will train for 5 years in my cities

I hope that i get more than 17% :sweatdrop:

[miotas]

killing other agents is also a good training method, as they are harder to kill than elutheroi captains so you get traits quicker, but they aren't next to impossible like a family member.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Meh, two years in Roma and killing Eleutheroi captains for two-three years more is all my assassins ever needed to get 10 subterfuge. However, in all of my EB history, I have actually succeeded in only three assassinations, performed on utter losers with no stars, scroll, or wreaths and only after reloading a couple of times.

For some reason, assassination is exceedingly hard in EB in comparison with RTW. Much of it has to do with the fact that the more command, management and influence a general has, the harder it is to kill him, but in EB, even the imbeciles are a risky prey. :shrug:

My only use for assassins is sabotage, which is quite useful actually when you have an enemy faction cranking out a unit every turn from just about every city, as it often happens in VH campaigns. That said, reloading is something I practise all the time with my assassins, spies and diplomats.

[Chris1959]

As an aside was Rhodes famous for spys or assasins?

Because in my current Roman campaign agents I have recruited there have had much higher stats to begin with than any where else. Just an observation.

[Aurgelmir]

I will kill the FM's with my army now...lol
Yesterday i reloaded about 20 times,and he had about 40%:wall:

From now on i will give my agents other duty's...:whip: no more suici:skull:e missions

[miotas]

I will kill the FM's with my army now...lol
Yesterday i reloaded about 20 times,and he had about 40%:wall:

From now on i will give my agents other duty's...:whip: no more suici:skull:e missions

The primary duties of my agents are counter-spying. I always have 2 spys in every settlement, a master and an apprentice, when the master dies the apprentice gets an apprentice and the cycle continues. :beam:

This always ensures I have a highly skilled spy in my settlement at all times.

I never even attempt FM's knowing how impossible they are. I hardly ever use assassins but I will occasionaly use one to take out a high level mic if the AI is giving me spam stacks and I don't feel like expanding.

And when I need a couple of spys to go with the army(one to counter-spy and the other to try and open gates) then a couple of apprentices get an early promotion.

[Silence Hunter]

I will kill the FM's with my army now...lol
Yesterday i reloaded about 20 times,and he had about 40%:wall:

From now on i will give my agents other duty's...:whip: no more suici:skull:e missions

I think 40% is not a chance, but how much of the enmy FM's health the assassin can damage:laugh4: It seems that probabily theory in RTW is non-existant or different from commonly accepted one :shame: Even when I had 40% it was still almost always impossible to kill them. So anything less than 50 is pretty much not worth the effort. :juggle2:

[Drewski]

Here's a rather strange observation:- Spies with 3 or 4 "eyes" will be quite tough to Assasinate, while an Assassin with the same "eyes" will be easy prey (95% most of the time)...

Shouldn't it be the other way around? An Assassin surely would be more familiar with the methods used, plus they cost more than spies :inquisitive:

[Nachtmeister]

I think 40% is not a chance, but how much of the enmy FM's health the assassin can damage:laugh4: It seems that probabily theory in RTW is non-existant or different from commonly accepted one :shame: Even when I had 40% it was still almost always impossible to kill them. So anything less than 50 is pretty much not worth the effort. :juggle2:

Interesting point, the one about probability in RTW. Let me briefly relate to you an observation I have made in all of my many, many KH campaign opening-moves:

If the spy, "Alkon Koios", starting on Krete with Areus and his men, is used to infiltrate Kydonia and Areus is sent to attack immediately, the gates are always closed.

If he is used to infiltrate Kydonia and all troops on the Peloponnesos are united and sent to lay siege to Korinthos, a unit of hippakontistai levied in Athenai, Chremonides and all present troops sent to lay siege to Chalkis, all troops in Rhodos disbanded and construction of roads is started there and finally all taxes set to very high (except for Sparte: high) and
THEN
Areus is sent to attack the already-infiltrated city of Kydonia (this is still the first turn, without an AI round having taken place) - the gates are always, really always, open.

It follows (or seems to follow) that the events having taken place not only cause "probability-rolls" to be repeated, but can even directly affect their "results".

[Aemilius Paulus]

I
It follows (or seems to follow) that the events having taken place not only cause "probability-rolls" to be repeated.
No, it is just the new set of "rolls" so to say. Right on the first point. After making three tries to infiltrate/assassinate, the result is always the same. End Turn, quit game, fight battle, are all of the things that cause the probability to make another "roll".

[Nachtmeister]

End Turn, quit game, fight battle, are all of the things that cause the probability to make another "roll".

The state of closed/open gates mentioned in my last post directly contradicts this.
Neither did I end my turn, nor quit the game, nor fight a battle to effect the change from "closed gates" to "open gates".
I fought a battle DUE TO the effect of the change from "closed" to "open". :laugh4:
Re-read my post for the details - I think the "probability" displayed is not so much a probability of future "rolls" as an arbitrary value set to give you a general Idea of what your chances are that the game is currently "deeming you to be successful", based on the "skill" of the agent and the "toughness" of the target. The result of the mission is already determined before it takes place. If things not necessarily related to the situation at hand change in the game world, the result changes.
So, a roman assassin might fail killing an Aedui FM in Spring268BC, or he might succeed in Spring268BC - just because the construction cue of Roma was altered or the City of Syrakousai set under Siege at the other end of Italia.
For that matter, it might also change based on events on the eastern border of the AS - except that this would also imply an "end-of-turn" because the SPQR faction has no way of interacting with this area in Spring268BC.