Do you cheat with Pahlava?

[Jebivjetar]

I ask this because to me it seems impossible to go ahead with Pahlava unless you cheat, with process_cq or add_money cheat: offcourse, alternatively you can play all the time with 4-5 horsarchers and fighting same old battles with them... Pahlavan cities make too little money to finance armies and building projects in same time: i have aprox 10 towns, and still cant get any money for buildings: AS are attacking me all the time, i barely had money to build barracks for horse archers near border with them so i can defend myself(so i dont need to wait about 5 turns to bring H/As from my capital): i can finance about one stack of horse archers and foot archers and nothing more! I have no money to build anything, even traders: there are just too many buildings you must build to get reformed gov, and a lot of time to do so: still, money is a HUGE issue with Pahlava...

Has anybody achieved something with them without using any cheat? I ask this because i dont want to cheat, and if i find Pahlava impossible without cheating, ill rather just quit my campaign... :shame:


Here is picture of my progress. except now i have Baktria too :yes:

https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/52/mypahlava.jpg

[seienchin]

I guess most people raid the Seleukid Lands to get money.:book:
Anyway if you dont want that just capture Baktrian Lands. They have a whole lot of mines there giving plenty of money. And never built client rulers!!! They cost more than 1000 a turn in the east

[A Very Super Market]

Heh. Don't play Saka, Hayasdan, or Pontos then.....

[seienchin]

None of them has this Problem.
As Pontos you have money, only a really bad position. Same with Hayasdan. The Saka have no money, but nothing threatens them right?

[A Very Super Market]

Your bad situation creates a need for money to defend yourself, thus depleting the fairly little amount you have.

[HunGeneral]

I would suggest you try I "roleplay-plan" of mine: simply use add_money cheat so that you don't go into the red (in other words you will only use the cheat to add money and make youre treasury is equall to 0) this way you still won't have any money but you will be able to get on your legs when raiding AS or Baktria settlements.

The reason whiy I find this legitim is that Nomadic "economy" knows no debt - most of your soldiers fight for loot, honor and to be aknowledged as great warriors. So the RTW system doesn't represent this very realisticly.

I always use it to start my Saka, Sauromatae, Pahlav campaigns. Although with Pahlav it would be unfair if you use it after youre people have settled. If you wan't to represent this perfectly then conquer all provinces with Homeland resource for Phalav and only then start building the reformed goverments. (haven't tried this one yet however...)

[Zradha Pahlavan]

When I first played I immediatly launched a Blitzkreig campaign against the Seleucids, easily netting a bunch of cities. I still had little money, but it was enough to beat back the first couple of Seleucid phalanx counterattacks and allowed me to push forward again and take over the old Persian lands.
Despite all this, I still had no money.
But then I hit upon a brilliant plan. I assembled small groups of horsemen and made long-distance raids across Seleucid territory where I sacked major cities (I used a rather 'evil' general for this since extermination was, unfortunately, necessary). A spy or two would make sure the army could stay out of the way of the enemy phalanxes, while the horsemen pillaged and looted all the finest cities of the middle east and smashed enemy barracks. They made it back to my lands with minimal losses. Then I was rich. For a while.
No cheating was needed.

Even now, when I command a substantial empire, I still have barely enough money to scrape by. That's just how EB works on VH difficulty.

[Zeibek]

I do the exact same thing as Zradha Pahlavan: blitz the Seleukid cities in Iran and after the initial rush go about sacking cities in Mesopotamia and the Levant to prevent the Silver Death from flooding you with elites later on and make some money. I usually attack Baktria only after I've consolidated my hold on Iran and made sure the AS won't be up to much for a while.

[V.T. Marvin]

Hmm, I am little bit surprised by the suggestions stated above. :no:

I have played Pahlava campaigns since 0.81v2 on each new EB release and I have tried various stategies to keep the things going, but I have never experienced a situation that would demand cheating. Cheating IMHO completely destroys whatever enjoyment you can get from the game as there would always be the thought in the background of your conscience that you have not stood up to the challenge. In fact, I have found blitz strategies and/or sacking of AS cities as spoiling the game in the long run. I am certainly no masochist, but I find the tight starting years, when one watches the AI turn going in the tense excitement whether a gray or blue or red fullstack appear out of nowhere towards your almost defenceless cities and the triumphal relief when such a menace is crushed by tiny band of horsemen and gund-i-nizagans as the most rewarding experiences of the whole game. And when those starting decades are a mere histor and the royal purple spreads over the world map and a mighty empire is born, that is even better knowinghow this all was hardly won from the most humble beginnings! I love playing as Pahlava!!!

I would sincerely advice to anybody to try to play them slow, no cheats, no blitz, no raiding, no attacking others unless being attacked first. Go slowly, build your economy and the reward will be yours. Patience brings roses, they say... :2cents:

[seienchin]

Just as I said. The East has a lot of mining Money to get. Just Stay away from Client rulers and conquer mining cities. When I played Pahla I also raided Seleucid Settlements. Mainly because I needed to stop the Elite Stackspamming but not for money.

[Jebivjetar]

Thanks for advices, guys! :2thumbsup:

Ive just conquered Persopolis and have acces to sea. Still have no money, Baktria is going to destroy me with their AI-granted fullstack with some elites (calvary and phalanxes), AS (suprisingly) is not attacking me, but just stand with half stack of phalanxes 2 turns from my city on the border and if they want, they could destroy me very soon. None of my towns is growing (still, i have to retrain...) and no matter how many cities i get, cant do anything except raid and run... so i think ill quit, i have no pleasure running horse archers around phalanxes all the time...

VerySuper Market: Ive played with Pontos (wich is "night-impossible" as i can remember) and it was much joyful and "easier" than Pahlava (wich is "very challenging":inquisitive:)...

:clown:

[seienchin]

Capture Baktria!!!
Forget about Persepolis. See or not, without mines the cities dont get enough money. Maybe you should donate it to the ptollis^^. Might help with AS...

[penguinking]

My Pahlavan campaign, 246 BC (VH/M difficulty)
https://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr123/White_Lion_photo/WorldMapPahlava246.jpg

I really didn't find it too hard. I just attacked the Seleucids immediately. You start with two armies, so one can go south and quickly take Asaak, Zadrakta, and the other Seleucid town near there, while the other can go east and take the two northernmost seleucid provinces before joining up with your other army. By this point I had enough cash to hire some mercenary foot archers for garrison, and could support a stack of 3 FMs and 4-6 horse archers. I defeated three seleucid half stacks before sweeping south again, quickly taking Gabai and Persepolis, and then the rest of the seleucid's eastern possessions.

At this point my economy took off, and I could afford two half stacks of horse archers, with which I invaded Mesopotamia. After taking Babylon I decided to stop expanding for awhile, but eventually got tired of constant annoying battles and took Syria. Perhaps I was lucky, because neither Baktria nor Saka attacked me. Eventually I decided to raise another army and crush Baktria just for fun. So, cheating is definitely not necessary.

[Jebivjetar]

Capture Baktria!!!
Forget about Persepolis.

O, Baktria is mine already, and somehow i managed to defend it from arising Baktrian armies from east (they have 2 more towns somewhere in the bushes...), now i think i can relax about Baktria issue: ive destroyed all their elites (god bless mercenary phalangites:yes:) and now they are comming with archers, wich will never cross "bridges to Baktria" :skull:

I didnt quit! In one of my cities sonn ill be able to produce noble and armoured cataphracts" and i cant wait to see them on the battlefield :2thumbsup:


I still have one question: whats the difference between pastoralism and nomadism? I know what it means, i allso know that when you build pastoralism you can go for reforms: but still, in some cities you cant do that, like in Baktra: so i dont understand what difference does it make there. Can anybody help?

[Jebivjetar]

My Pahlavan campaign, 246 BC (VH/M difficulty)
https://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr123/White_Lion_photo/WorldMapPahlava246.jpg





You rule, man :2thumbsup:

[Jebivjetar]

And one more thing about money: i send my diplomat in Italy, offered map information to Romans and they didnt want it at all, they just gave me about 5000 minai. In next turns i did the same, and they gave me about same money if ill pay them tribute: i accept agreement and immediately canceled it: i did it in few turns, Romans blame me for "transgression", and it was my first "skirmish" with them! :yes:

[Subedei]

And one more thing about money: i send my diplomat in Italy, offered map information to Romans and they didnt want it at all, they just gave me about 5000 minai. In next turns i did the same, and they gave me about same money if ill pay them tribute: i accept agreement and immediately canceled it: i did it in few turns, Romans blame me for "transgression", and it was my first "skirmish" with them! :yes:

Nice one! Good job!

[Atraphoenix]

why do you need cheat, I do not understand; just blitz AS until you burn Antiocheia! :laugh4:
then restore your country and baktria is piece of cake after you can send them your Cataphracts! :yes:

My pahlava campaign 243 BC no cheat!:https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/484/rometwalx20090412203616.jpg

Even I have submods for 0 recruitment and more movement points too, but I did not use them in that campaign.

until you can send AS to the west of euphrates mercenaries are your friend... hyrkanian hillmen best phalanx killer believe me...

P.S. I gave maks trapezus to make them alive cos I plan them to be as a buffer state between me and epirot monster.

[Jebivjetar]

@ Atraphoenix: i never cheat, never... i just asked people who played Pahlava for some stories based on their experience with Pahlava, because, to me, on the beginning it seemed imposible to play with them without cheats and at that point i wanted to quit. But not anymore! This is what i achieved this far (and i think im gonna go for victory screen:yes:)

here is my picture:


https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5308/pahlava259bc.jpg

:smash::smash::smash::2thumbsup:

[Atraphoenix]

I never said you cheated. It was a rhetorical questions like "Who knows?"
It is quite opposite to historical accuracy but you need to blitz with Pahlava to survive, and every pahlava fan may agree with me.

Hyrkanian hillmen and other axemen are good phalanx hunters just order them loose formation so they can outflank phalanxes while they are holding the line your HAs handles the rest.

even Catas cannot be so mad to attack from front so always charge from back or flanks.
Though I tested that grivpandar can annihilate argyspides (elite phalanx) front front. :yes:

P.S. Do not recruit noble catas just recruit normal catas because nobles have sword normal catas have AP as second weapon. :idea2:

I hope it helps you to revive old glory of persians. I like late times with pahlava because you feel like xerxes when you besiege athens. also it is quite fun to disembark elaphants on Italy :skull:

[Zradha Pahlavan]

This is how far I've gotten as of 205 BC on VH/H.
https://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/Dancing_Fungus/untitled-1.jpg

The problem is that there's been a stalemate in Syria ever since the Macedonians launched a crusade against me. Admittedly I haven't played much in a while...

Incidentally, how do you get elephants when playing as Pahlava?

[Watchman]

You don't. Unlike their Sassanid successors they never used hefalumps IRL, AFAIK (or in any case, not for war; OTOH I wouldn't be surprised if the Shashashashashashanshahs occasionally kept a few around as pets just for shit and giggles and to impress visiting delegates).

Anyway, as regards cheating, I make like HunGeneral above - I use "add_money" to keep the economy from going into the red at the beginning. Mainly for two reasons - for one, I sincerely doubt if "state debt" was actually possible with period financial structures, for another, out of sheer convenience (because it's boring to sit on your ass for twenty turns paying off the accumulated debt...). Also if necessary to pay for at least the most rudimentary adminstration of captured regions, ie. the initial occupation/pacification precursor, just to keep things logical.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

"You don't."

That's funny, given that the Pahlava have elephants listed on the EB "Pahlava units" page and that those elephants have a unique unit skin.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/pahlava/pah_indian_elephant.gif

[Watchman]

Well call me Bridget and bugger me sideways, I stand corrected. That's what you get for not checking the EDU and DMB first.

I guess you need to make like the Saka and go down to India to get them, then. And prolly go through the reform chain and whatnot.

[johnhughthom]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/pahlava/pah_indian_elephant.gif

Woah! I had no idea those guys existed!

[Jebivjetar]

Has anybody experienced thing as this: you play Pahlava, capture Baktra; Baktria have 2 towns north and east of Baktra left (i cant remember the names), and after some time they start to spam you with half and full stacks of light infantry and FMs with 60 men?? :no: Well, i know that AI has a money: but how can 2 towns support 2 fullstacks?? :inquisitive:

[HunGeneral]

Has anybody experienced thing as this: you play Pahlava, capture Baktra; Baktria have 2 towns north and east of Baktra left (i cant remember the names), and after some time they start to spam you with half and full stacks of light infantry and FMs with 60 men?? :no: Well, i know that AI has a money: but how can 2 towns support 2 fullstacks?? :inquisitive:

Interresting. I faced something simlier in my Saka campaing when Baktria used Kophen to support 1 and a half full staks. What must be behing it is that they harldy build anything and most of there troops are levies so quite cheap.:whip:.. I stayed with the same tactic as I had till now.. Simply sent my hordes of horsemen to kill all and enslave the survivers. (in other word I destroyed the faction:skull:).

I would suggest you do the same or keep forts with half stacks of infantry or supporting HA to keep them contained if you wish to leave Baktria alive.

[Jebivjetar]

@HunGeneral: youre right, i think im gonna destroy them :whip:

Still, there is a problem: almost all of my armies are somewhere around Babylon (im having a real, big crusade against AS), so ill have to send some of them to Baktria to manage situation there. That means ill have to leave Antiocheia: i wont have enough soldiers to defend it :sweatdrop:


And one more very interesting thing in my campaign: while i was blitzing AS, taking everything they had, they just moved in Ptolies lands: i play with toggle_fow, and this is what i saw: Ptolies didnt even defend them selves against AS: they send all their armies to the east and captured most of rebel-cities, leaving everything behind without appropriate defences: its just like they gave their land to AS as a gift... i dont understand that. I even offered them Palmyra when i capture it: they didnt want it! :no:

[HunGeneral]

Still, there is a problem: almost all of my armies are somewhere around Babylon (im having a real, big crusade against AS), so ill have to send some of them to Baktria to manage situation there. That means ill have to leave Antiocheia: i wont have enough soldiers to defend it :sweatdrop:

Hmmm.. is the AS still making reasenoble resistance or are they just trying to slow you down?

One thing you could try is put some foot archers, slingers + horse archers into the city and if it gets besieged then sally - send out the HA's through one or more of the gates, keep your archers on the walls. Use the cavalry to lure anything in the range of the skirmishers on the walls and overrun routing troops with your HA after they ran out of ammo. If all archers/slingers/HA are out of ammo just get your troops back into town and finish the battle (press Esc and click on "quit batttle" if it sais your sally was succesful then you can leave the battle) - you keep the town and no loses will be healed on any side...:laugh4: This is the best nomads can make out of stone walls.


And one more very interesting thing in my campaign: while i was blitzing AS, taking everything they had, they just moved in Ptolies lands: i play with toggle_fow, and this is what i saw: Ptolies didnt even defend them selves against AS: they send all their armies to the east and captured most of rebel-cities, leaving everything behind without appropriate defences: its just like they gave their land to AS as a gift... i dont understand that. I even offered them Palmyra when i capture it: they didnt want it! :no:

I never saw that before although I never got that far as you are now (too little time for EB:no:)
Make sure you get the AS out of Alexandria there they can still train all there elite troops:wall:

Goosd luck to the rest of the campaing.

[Jebivjetar]

Baktrians are about to loose their new capital (Kophen), and the AS now lives in Asia Minor :2thumbsup:

Here are some pictures from my campaign:

https://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1591/pahlava2.jpg

https://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9923/pahlava3.jpg

https://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8066/pahlava5.jpg

https://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1381/pahlava6.jpg

https://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6159/pahlava7.jpg


Now i understand what it means when you have armoured H/As :skull:

[Jebivjetar]

And i must correct myself: i have wrote that Ptolies moved to the east, which is not truth: in fact, they are moving south, as is showed on some pictures.

[antisocialmunky]

I didn't have to cheat to kill Big Blue and Grey Death. I ended up having to sit at my starting town until I had about 4 FMs that had spent 20 years gassing the massive Grey and Blue blobs. Eventually I broke out, killed the Bactrians, and gobbled up all those naked Seleucid towsn in the east. Earthquakes in the Zagros kept killing my elite armeis though. :-\

[Jebivjetar]

Ive decided to use add_population (with -) because i dont have money to build palaces for upgrading my cities. It is weird, you know, that money issue with Pahlava: you have to build all those things in order to get reforms, then you must build new barracks: population is growing and its not fun when you cant do anything except build and build and build. I have about 20 provinces and cannot afford palaces! Damn! I do not have any elites (ok, i have one cataphracts, ive trained them because Pahlava is known for having them, but thats all elites i have), but afterall: my budget for army is very, very small, i have few little armies, mainly H/As, i spare money whenever i can, but anyway have not enough to upgrade my cities... Damn.... And that rich AI can afford everything it wants (e.g. Baktria, with 2 towns is having about 3 fullstacks:no:), but me, as a human player, cannot build what is necessary... :thumbsdown:

Now i have big empire without money... :embarassed:
I have no money to build.
If i dont build, my public order became very low... I dont want my hardly-earned provinces to rebel. Especially not to AS..

I have alternative:

1) disband my army and just build (read: build cities for my enemies who will take them if i wont defend them)
2) fight well with my armies and give my provinces to rebels.


... i think ill quit now.............. :thumbsdown:

To conquer with Pahlava and expand: thats something i call "two sided blade": its weakening me....

[Dayve]

Armoured horsies are terrifying. Play a campaign as Baktria, conquer Alexandreia Eschate and wait for Pahlava and Saka to declare war (they will, trust me). Then, take your best and biggest army and wait for it to be attacked by a Saka or Pahlava army with a large number of heavy horsies and family members. Saka seem to use a great many family members in their armies.

Only then will you know what it means to fight with or against these units.

The battle can't be in a city or fort or in any way where you are blocking a chokepoint and they have to charge your spears head on. Just a plain open field battle.

:smash:

[Atraphoenix]

I have adapted realist movement mod so to send armies from mesopotamia to baktria does not take 6 -8 years now :yes:

[Jebivjetar]

I have adapted realist movement mod so to send armies from mesopotamia to baktria does not take 6 -8 years now :yes:


How did you manage that? Which modifications have you made (and which files)?

[Alsatia]

Sorry, I cannot answer the last question. An i'm wondering, how in the world does the AI manage Pahlava to rise up and pwn Selucids?

[Jebivjetar]

When starting new campaign (272bc) just type "toggle_fow" in console window and see strength and position of the starting AI Pahlavan armies. In most cases they will beat AS, but sometimes they will end up pretty bad if AS manage to beat them.

[Alsatia]

True, True. But the fact that they actually have a chance to smash up AS is alrady an achievement.

[Marcus Ulpius]

After my Hayasdan campaign was unsuccessful I've started a Pahlava one. Their initial situation is bad. They have 2 tiny armies, which are most likely capable of taking about 3 AS towns. But what after that, when AS will start sending reinforcements from Mesopotamia? Those towns will most likely not be enough to generate enough income to both fight off the influx of AS forces and to develop the economy and infrastructure. How people are talking about raiding core AS territories when all you get is one army with 3 HA units and another one with 2 foot archers and 3 HA's. Immediately after start you are in red and your new cities will only give you peanuts, barely enough to slow down your sliding into deep debt. I'm currently trying to survive and I have enough men to defeat those pantodapoi and akontistai, but even one decent half-stack from Babylon will finish me off.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

I didn't raid stuff until I had taken over Susa and Persepolis. Also, don't underestimate the basic horse archers. I've used almost nothing but them and the generals' units for victory.

[Jebivjetar]

How people are talking about raiding core AS territories when all you get is one army with 3 HA units and another one with 2 foot archers and 3 HA's.


Well, these 2 little armies have their purpose: to conquer AS :laugh4::inquisitive:

Im not joking: in my campaign, they are defending Antiocheia at this time :juggle2:

[Jebivjetar]

And i want to know: have somebody of you already achieved victory conditions for Pahlava?

[Marcus Ulpius]

I'm sure some ppl did it. I think I saw a world domination map from Pahlava campaign somewhere. But for me, after playing with Makedonians, Pahlava look incredibly tough. Economy is your biggest enemy as horse troops are expensive. I can't produce levy troops like I did in early stages of my Makedonian campaign. Actually, I can't even retrain the troops. I think the biggest challenge is to conquer several towns in the beginning nearly without losses at all.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

I've gotten fairly close but I'm not there yet. Ionia remains Greek and the Seleucids still live. Unfortunately it has become somewhat of a stalemate, and Edessa and Damascus are still major enemy strongholds. Full stacks of Syrian archers and Thorakitai do not seem like fun things to fight in city battles...

[Jebivjetar]

Reforms finally! :yes:

:

https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2294/reforms.jpg


And, yes, this is how i manage spamming armies:


:
https://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5828/spamc.jpg

:laugh4:

:shame:

[Marcus Ulpius]

Small factions spamming full stacks is not much a problem for any empire with good steady economy. I remember that in my Roman campaign Lusos were reduced to two settlements, but they had like 3 full stacks of troops. Eventually I've killed them all, but at that point I had tons of money and could support numerous full stacks on all fronts.

It can however be a huge problem for economically struggling factions, like Pahlava, Hayasdan etc. I think that making AI assistance script work in some kind of dynamic way could solve that, but I'm not sure it is possible, and even if it is possible, EB team priorities lie elsewhere.

[Jebivjetar]

O, yes, im really tired of that AI army-spamming... Its not realistic anymore: its just boring, like, 2-3 full stacks from one Bactrian town, and many full stacks from crushed AS: so ive decided to transport them into Italy, and when the time comes, ill make them come back and then, after i manage to get some capable army, i will crush them.

If i had quit any of my campaigns, its because of AI spamming armies: i just hate it: especially when playing Pahlava... Script just aint fair... :thumbsdown:

[Jebivjetar]

As a matter of fact: it's impossible to enjoy building an empire whatever i do with Pahlava: it's ALWAYS about blitzing, even if you conquer about 20-30 cities: you're always at beginning,no matter what you do... I've found that Script is cool: but, when playing Pahlava, it ain't... :furious3:

Man, Pahlava is most difficult faction that i have played :dizzy2:

[Arutima]

God, all of you sure like to rush

https://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6438/rometw2008120904171590gm0.th.jpg (https://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2008120904171590gm0.jpg)

[Jebivjetar]

God, all of you sure like to rush

https://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6438/rometw2008120904171590gm0.th.jpg (https://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2008120904171590gm0.jpg)

Ok, i would like to know: how did you manage to beat AS/Baktria/Saka Rauka/Hayasdan: in what order did you smash them?

Which difficulty do you play?

Are you using force diplomacy?

[Atraphoenix]

How did you manage that? Which modifications have you made (and which files)?

just check unofficial submods :beam:

here is my link to it:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=116294

you have to change descr_character file in both data folder of Eb and sp game edu backup.
I used RS team set namely 260 in the line:

starting_action_points 260

but many testers have been saying some buggy issues so a new campaign is necessary I am around 260s. Arshak is on the last phase of his indian campaign. Tirdad is about to conquer ecbatana.

but beware AI also uses this against you.
My vital advice if you play with this mod AS uses infantry so they move very slow but if you use just cavalry in the first phase you may have a very important advantage so keep your infantries at cities and always use cavalries with your field army . after you conquer more than 12 15 provinces if you know how to handle arygispides that they started to send me when I was about to enter mesopotamia do not stop until you conquer antiocheia.

P.S. Hyrcanian hillmen are good phalanx hunters so use them in loose formation to surround phalanxes from flanks and rear. for elite phalanx you must have completed cavalry building that cost 6000 manai in khiva. so if you just looted a city build that cavalty barract to get noble catas and archer catas.

[Atraphoenix]

As a matter of fact: it's impossible to enjoy building an empire whatever i do with Pahlava: it's ALWAYS about blitzing, even if you conquer about 20-30 cities: you're always at beginning,no matter what you do... I've found that Script is cool: but, when playing Pahlava, it ain't... :furious3:

Man, Pahlava is most difficult faction that i have played :dizzy2:

That is why nearly all of my modes based on playing with pahlava.
but again the only solution is BLITZING! :yes:

[Marcus Ulpius]

I'm currently at the very beginning of my Pahlava campaign and it seems that the only way to survive is to expand as fast as possible while AS only sends pantodapoi and akontistai. That's why I think about going forward with that campaign or not. I don't like blitzing and prefer more gradual expansion.

[Jebivjetar]

@Atraphoenix: ill try your mod. thanx for instructions :2thumbsup:

@Marcus Ulpius: Yes, thats why ive quit my Pahlava campaign. Blitzing is fun for me, but just in the beginning: after some time (when i conquer 10-20 provinces) i would like to sit and build without 3 battles per turn, and without that annoying and endless AI armies. So, ive decided to start a new Pahlava campaign, but also ive decided to do some modding on the script, so the AI wont get those huge money bonuses: i hope that will stop it from spawning armies. Like ive already said somewhere elsewhere: script is cool when you play "easy" factions: but when playing Pahlava, IT JUST AINT! :laugh4:

:smash:

[MerlinusCDXX]

And i want to know: have somebody of you already achieved victory conditions for Pahlava?

I got real close (1 town away- the one on the S Arabian coast- forget what it's called) by 180 BC. I was trying to take it slow though. Then I had to do a complete system reinstall (clean), and my dumb arse lost the thumb drive my saves were on ~:doh: . The key for me was, moving real fast towards Persepolis and taking all adoption/marriage/MotH requests regardless of how bad the traits were and using them as extra cav units, then taking it easy and fast tracking toward reforms. The Pahlava make INSANE amounts of loot once their towns grow and get some good econ bldgs and pop growth.

No cheats except add_money (to other factions) and moderate use of force diplomacy.

[VladiNemir]

Pahlava...The only faction i've been playing for a long time ...The initial rush when ''blitzing'' is priceless,but then i got ''bored'' .I stopped my advance when i held the Arbela-Seleukeia-Babylon-Charax line,because i wanted to have a more balanced game - meaning-not-anihilating AS by 250 BC and the main reason was that i had this unrealistic/utopic wish/desire that Romans might show up near ''those parts'',around 150 BC :inquisitive: :idea2: LOL said to meself:''Damn i wish to see some flying legionaires when my katas crash 'em''...

However,they were nowhere near,not even once (i played pahlava campaign more than 20 times-15 games got F-ed up,by these irritating CTDs because of some problems with family members-guess there were too many+bugs,and me being an idiot)...Anyway...never cheated,till it got really boring -but boring is not the right word... i got frustrated-Having to fight up to 4 or even more fights per turn which i would surely WIN ANYWAY,because you cannot afford to lose that army by automanaging a fight,while AS is crashing in like a freaking maniac---silver shield after silver shild-up yers--caused that i called it a day,because i realised that i should have finished 'em off while it was still ''easy''.:skull:

[ChingizLink]

Hmm, I am little bit surprised by the suggestions stated above. :no:

I have played Pahlava campaigns since 0.81v2 on each new EB release and I have tried various stategies to keep the things going, but I have never experienced a situation that would demand cheating. Cheating IMHO completely destroys whatever enjoyment you can get from the game as there would always be the thought in the background of your conscience that you have not stood up to the challenge. In fact, I have found blitz strategies and/or sacking of AS cities as spoiling the game in the long run. I am certainly no masochist, but I find the tight starting years, when one watches the AI turn going in the tense excitement whether a gray or blue or red fullstack appear out of nowhere towards your almost defenceless cities and the triumphal relief when such a menace is crushed by tiny band of horsemen and gund-i-nizagans as the most rewarding experiences of the whole game. And when those starting decades are a mere histor and the royal purple spreads over the world map and a mighty empire is born, that is even better knowinghow this all was hardly won from the most humble beginnings! I love playing as Pahlava!!!

I would sincerely advice to anybody to try to play them slow, no cheats, no blitz, no raiding, no attacking others unless being attacked first. Go slowly, build your economy and the reward will be yours. Patience brings roses, they say... :2cents:

Geez...somehow this forum has even give your profile a BUZZ KILL's face! : )

I've played as Parthia on RTR and all of the evil variations and submods of it before I played EB. I've spent several turns taking out stupid, annoying rebels who were just outside of my character's reach for one turn. I did the scorched earth thing all over Bactria on Extended Realism with the Metro Naval Mod, and somehow, failed to realize how that the rebels that took back Sogdiana, Merv, etc would all be full stacks of Sarmatian Merc HAs and Heavy Cavalry, complete with fully upgraded weapons/armor and 7-9 experience. And rather than start over, I took them all out (and probably took around 5-6 years off of my life...)

Oh, the fun part? I didn't even know THAT CHEATS EXISTED for RTW until about 4-5 months ago. (I really would have liked that toggle_fow command...)

I agree that just cheating gratuitously like a little kid spoils the fun, but not only is there plenty of room for cheats in a game where...oh, I don't know, every once in awhile you play a 2 hour battle to get rewarded with a CTD, but it can, and does, enhance gameplay for the history fascists among us. The description of how one player emulates a nomad economy above, on page 1, is a perfect example. Personally, I think that many of the construction times are WAY too long, some of them cost way too much (and this is in every mod, and FTR, I haven't run across many such items in EB) and many units have ridiculously high upkeep, so VOILA: the discretionary use of a few cheats later, I am overjoyed.

I found EB after I was pretty burned out with RTW mods, but also around the time that I found about the various cheats, so I tended to spam the BEJEEZUS out of em. (I couldn't get enough of that Parthian Reform...man, that is cool...) That being said, I still played all the ridiculous, one-sided battles, and once I finally got a game going that I was happy with and continued, I cut down on my army to make it reasonable, realistic, and within my ingame budget.

Should they be within my borders, yet outside my characters' movement points, however, I am still gonna use move_character to shoot some brigand trash to pieces...

[ChingizLink]

I'm currently at the very beginning of my Pahlava campaign and it seems that the only way to survive is to expand as fast as possible while AS only sends pantodapoi and akontistai. That's why I think about going forward with that campaign or not. I don't like blitzing and prefer more gradual expansion.

And that is another reason why I found a happy medium with cheats: I can't even bring myself to describe how much of the map I scrounged up within a few turns by, uh...well, basically squeezing alot out of a single turn : ) In my current campaign I'm actually frustrated with the Seleucids' lack of aggression and the wimpy half stacks they kept sending me. (I was playing Medium campaign and Hard battles, now I'm doing Hard/Hard, and thinking about taking the plunge...) I ended up figuring out how to rush the March of Time and the Seleucid Reform, in addition to giving them tons of dough (same with Rome and Macedon...man, Macedonia is REALLY getting its butt kicked in my campaign. It just isn't right! I'd almost prefer the Macedonian juggernaught from ye olde RTR!)

Back to my point, with regards to the Seleucids, I want armageddon, I tell you! And I want it to last well into the second century BC! I want them to be as cheap and evil as they are on RTR (ie full stacks of Macedonian Phalanxes with cataphracts, archers, and several cavalry units showing up every turn) but with the improved gameplay, visuals, and historical detail of EB. And that AI just can't take a hint, I tell you!

[Lazy O]

I think your concept is wrong here, Im playing with Saka Rauka but since theyre almost the same,...

You do not need to cheat. Right from turn one you can go all out smashing anything that comes in your way, FMs with horse archers are impossible to face with Phalanx armies, None of my armies have yet sat down peacefully, theyve been on the move since turn one. I mean, Your a NOMAD, its your LIFE going out far and wide looking for things to kill.

[Cute Wolf]

I think your concept is wrong here, Im playing with Saka Rauka but since theyre almost the same,...

You do not need to cheat. Right from turn one you can go all out smashing anything that comes in your way, FMs with horse archers are impossible to face with Phalanx armies, None of my armies have yet sat down peacefully, theyve been on the move since turn one. I mean, Your a NOMAD, its your LIFE going out far and wide looking for things to kill.

well, I allready beaten Saka, Pahlava, and Sauromatae VC with no cheat at all...
*. (PS : but recently I've mod the EDB myself so I could build nomadism everywhere, that's it, campaigns that I won with World Domination without any kind of cheating is Saka, that occurs far before I become a modder)

[Cambyses]

@ Atraphoenix: i never cheat, never... i just asked people who played Pahlava for some stories based on their experience with Pahlava, because, to me, on the beginning it seemed imposible to play with them without cheats and at that point i wanted to quit. But not anymore! This is what i achieved this far (and i think im gonna go for victory screen:yes:)

here is my picture:


https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5308/pahlava259bc.jpg

:smash::smash::smash::2thumbsup:

Ive got to say, for someone who is finding it so difficult, you sure have a large empire at an early stage of the game! The thing is to use all cavalry 3/4 stack armies. The basic horse archers and a couple of FM/riders should be enough to kill anything. They arent so expensive and move very fast. So you will find that youre upkeep is less than if you were using infantry (which you need a lot more of to cover the same area). Also you should suffer hardly any casualties and tehrefore not need to spend time/money retraining. If you are short of cash dont use elites and dont use mercs and dont build stuff you dont need. Many of the most expensive buildings give you very limited benefits and just arent necessary until you have more money than you know what to do with.

[Skuda]

I see no need to cheat with Pahlava. I never played it but it couldn't be harder than Saka Rauka and Saka is one of the easiest factions especially if you play on M/M or H/M

[Jebivjetar]

After a year since i wrote the first post in this thread i found no reason to cheat with Pahlava anymore. I guess it's the same with all EB factions, especially with "difficult" ones: once you learn what is the best expansion-route for your faction, army composition, tactics, and what is the most likely behavior of surrounding factions, it gets pretty easy to play. Few months ago i started Pahlava campaign anew, and it was, more or less, a piece of cake to reach Antiocheia and to have stable economy able to support decent army at the same time.

[ChingizLink]

Just as I said. The East has a lot of mining Money to get. Just Stay away from Client rulers and conquer mining cities. When I played Pahla I also raided Seleucid Settlements. Mainly because I needed to stop the Elite Stackspamming but not for money.

Wow, I had no idea how much those client rulers drained your economy. After reading this thread, I started a new campaign and, I gotta say, I have so much more $ now that I'm without any client/recruited rulers or generals.

[NoHelmet]

You should take Kophen (just east of Baktra), you could have a nice amount of cash from mining, and after that, India is always tempting. Even though that means another army, it will pay of. And dont forget the fact that cities in india have elephants in their garrisons, so bring some skirmishers

[xypherx]

Hmm I think there is no need for sacking cities and giving them up - I usually just conquer everything I can get as early as possible right before resistance can be recruited and i use many spies to encourage/suppress rebellions- sure they cost 100per turn but you will need them to move on with your forces instead of leaving leaders or horsearchers in town.
I think Pahlava is quite easy to play - you have the best heavy calvalry you can get - capture persepolis build barracks - build cataphracts and crush anything in your way,
on VH/VH you will have to use your general's guards exessively - just to reduce recruiting costs for other units - I usually charge with 3 units into a phalanx (as long as there is no faction member general present) and they usually just flee - just try to get away before they switch the direction of their lances an you will lose only 0 till 2 men - but thats fine with me - horse archers when they get some experience will even shot down heavier troops so in the end you will have the most effective army in the game at your command. But one thing is really annoying - skirmisher against cavalry i hate peltastoi - you charge into them and sometimes you kill just 3-6 and the rest of them is slaying your guards because of their missile attack - they are as long as under AI control often more effective than heavy spearmen - that sucks^^

I think the factions mentioned hard to play in the introduction are quite easy ones - as long as you are aggressive enough (hayasdan - just capturing AS capital and babylonia +3 other towns in the beginning and you will have an easy game) - I have more difficulties with Sweboz and others just due to the fact that you are low on money and every battle costs quite an amount of lives and you will have no possibility to recruit new ones without money( last game i conquered 8 provinces with the first forces you get in the beginning but had about 80k depts and was just slightly recovering as the getai got pissed off)

[ChingizLink]

Hmm I think there is no need for sacking cities and giving them up - I usually just conquer everything I can get as early as possible right before resistance can be recruited and i use many spies to encourage/suppress rebellions- sure they cost 100per turn but you will need them to move on with your forces instead of leaving leaders or horsearchers in town.
I think Pahlava is quite easy to play - you have the best heavy calvalry you can get - capture persepolis build barracks - build cataphracts and crush anything in your way,
on VH/VH you will have to use your general's guards exessively - just to reduce recruiting costs for other units - [snip made by Chingiz Link]

Okay, this is another thing that is totally news to me viz-a-viz EB: I had no idea that spies cause a ruckus and all other kinds of shenanigans when in a settlement that isn't your faction's! (this would explain why my allies all have such crappy public order, and why they tend to be so cold toward me when we hang out...I thought Rome just felt weird partying with Pontos, Saka, Sauromatae, and then their competitors like Macedon and Carthage...)

I've looked around the forum for info on that (and I'll keep looking, sorry for the off topic tangent), since I can't seem to get the public order in an enemy faction any lower when I use more than 1 agent. Is there a trick I'm missing?

Also, I totally agree re Pahlava (or Parthia in other realistic RTW mods) being fun to play/not difficult, though I'm probably biased (for several reasons).

[Ludens]

I've looked around the forum for info on that (and I'll keep looking, sorry for the off topic tangent), since I can't seem to get the public order in an enemy faction any lower when I use more than 1 agent. Is there a trick I'm missing?

Maybe only the highest-level spy causes unrest? There is an agent guide for M1:TW, but I don't know of similar research into R:TW. In any case, it's usually a waste of effort to try and get enemy towns to revolt, as the threshold for A.I. towns appears far lower than for the human player.

[xypherx]

they can actually cause quite an amount of unrest - just test it - the seleukids have many spies in that area and when you have some good spy or assassin just kill one of them in your town an than you can see a difference in civil unrest, spies are able to even provoke revolts quite easy and early in this region - the problem is that you will have to oppose a stronger rebel garrison than factional garrison in some rare cases,
when you have a problem with capturing the easternmost settlements of AS - send spies, when you have problems with their public order, send a trained spy usually there is a Saka spy in one of them and you will have to throw him out or kill him in order to get control of the town (same with the AS southeastern provinces - often AS has 2 or more spies in or near them and they really suck)