Sons of Elissa - An Interactive Punic AAR

[Tanit]

I just finished my current Carthaginian campaign in 208 BC with all the required territories plus most of Britain, all of Egypt and Nubia, Crete, all of west Africa, and some of Gaul. Both the remnants of Rome in Gaul and the remnants of the Ptolemaioi in the Near East are my protectorates. I was getting a bit weary of the difficulties in Britain and perhaps I will come back to this game in the future but I have been toying with the idea of a Carthaginian AAR for some time and I decided why not.

Campaign Difficulty: H/H

Format: You are all members of the Carthaginian Council of Elders. Through good advice and good roleplaying you have the chance to advance to the Inner Council, also known as the Council of 101.


Characters In Game:

Abdimilki - 65, deceased. Wife - Actaee, 60

Mago - Sophet of Carthage, in Carthage, 44. Wife - Roxane, 43, Head of his house

Hamalcar - Protege of Mago, in Lilibeo, 22. Wife - Polymede, 20, Head of his house

Bomilkar - Governor of Adrumeto, 35. Wife - Raisa, 30, Head of his house

Hasdrubal - Governor of Mastia, 21. Wife - Althaia, 19, Head of his house

Carthalo - Governor of Karali, 18, Adopted son of Mago

Hanno - Governor of Lepki, 26, Adopted Son of Mago

Gisgo - Governor of Ippone, 17, Adopted son of Mago

Annibas - Emissary of Carthage, in Zeugitania, 27

Aderbal - 14, Adopted son of Bomilkar

Himilco - 13, Adopted son of Bomilkar

Hamalcar Barca - 2, Adopted son of Hamalcar

Bisaltes - 1, Adopted son of Hasdrubal

Muttanbaal - 3, Daughter of Hasdrubal

Admirals: Thero, Danel(A), Abascantus Baecula, Danel(B)


Characters in the Thread:

Xenophanes Akragantos - 42, Agapia(20), (son) - 0

Danel Hanno - 31

Akbar the Lame - 27

Hannibal Barca - 29

Αναξαγορας of Kyrene (Anaxagoras) - 31

The campaign does not start until I have at least a few council members. After it starts anyone may join witha decent introduction. Your character should be posted with roughly the following information...

Name: Punic names involved a first name which could be a rare name such as Yehawielon, but was more frequently a common name such as Hanno, Hannibal, Hamalcar, Mago, Bostar, Hasdrubal or Gisgo. The last name was either a nickname referring to an exploit or characteristic which could be passed down to your descendants, or it was a reference to an important ancestor in your family line. For example, Hannibal son of Gisgo would be known as Hannibal Gisgo. Hanno son of Mago would be known as Hanno Mago, etc. . .

Ethnicity: Only Carthaginian citizens could be part of the senate at this point in time, however you may be half Qarthadastei, half something else. At this point in the campaign I'd say your options are Libyan, Liby-Phoenician, Greek, Celtic, Numidian, Sardinian, Etruscan, Sicilian, Balearic or Iberian for your non-Qarthadastim half.

Age: This way I can keep track of your character and you will age with the campaign.

A Brief description of your character such as his profession (merchant, building overseer, what have you.), possibly a wife, children, etc... and your political disposition on where Carthage should focus its efforts.



Starting Diplomacy:
SPQR - Allies
Epeiros - Enemies
Lusotannon - Allies
Aedui - Allies
Ptolemaioi - Allies
Syracuse - Allies (Believe it or not)
Mammertines - Neutral
Massylian Numidians - Neutral (But with tensions rising)
Massaesylian Numidians - Neutral
Mauretanians - Neutral
Garamantines - Neutral
Kyrene - Neutral
Celt-Iberians - Neutral
Arse - Neutral
Massalia and Emporion - Neutral

[Vasiliyi]

YES! IM IN! Wait did you say we can be the characters who are actually in the game? If that is true, I shotty Hamalcar. Im in.

[Tyrfingr]

This sounds interesting, I might as well give it a shoot:

Name: Xenophanes Akragantos

Age: 42

Ethnicity: Helleno-Qarthadastim

Description: Born in the city of Akragas (Agrementum) by a Qarthadastei merchant and a greek woman. Xenophanes did not follow his father's footsteps, but instead served as a marine in the Carthaginian navy. Xenophanes is recently married to Agapia, 20 years old, and they're expecting their first child any day now. Xenophanes believes that the future of Carthage lies in the west, in Sicilia and finally in Italy!

[Tanit]

YES! IM IN! Wait did you say we can be the characters who are actually in the game? If that is true, I shotty Hamalcar. Im in.

No, you create your own characters here.

[johnhughthom]

Hmm, this seems like a well thought out AAR, there are a lot going on though. What the hell, this seems more interesting than mine, I'll play along too.

Name:Danel Hanno
Age:31
Ethnicity:Punic
Biography:Current head of a long family line of slave traders. He believes strongly in Qarthadastei expansion as war leads to slaves, has little interest in where we actually fight as long as there are defeated peoples to be enslaved. He sells many slaves to Romani contacts, some of whom he considers friends, and will argue against anything that brings his city into conflict with Rome. Has a slight disdain for the slave traders and merchants from the Ptolemaic Empire, who he sees as effiminate sister lovers.

[Maion Maroneios]

Akragantos
There :yes:

As for this Interactive AAR, let's just say I like this little "frenzy" with Interactive stories very much :yes: Good luck boys :thumbsup: Oh, and just promise me one thing: Please, for the sake of the theoi in Olympos, wipe the filthy Romaioi off the face of the Earth. You'll do mankind a great favour :egypt:

Maion

[Vasiliyi]

Name: Akbar the lame.

Culture:Qarthadast-Numidian

Age: 27

Discription: Fought for Carthage when he was younger and earned his right as a citizen. Started making money off slave trade and mines in spain and got extremely rich. He has a limp from all the battles he fought.

Looking forward to starting this.

[Tyrfingr]

There :yes:

Thanks man!

[Tanit]

542 Years Since Foundation

https://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3387/carthagemap.th.png

In the Council Chambers of Kart-Hadast, the new city, Mago, former envoy to the Romans and Admiral of the Punic fleet, now Magistrate Sophet of Kart-Hadast, stands to address the Council of Elders.

"Esteemed Council Members, it is with great joy that I announce the latest news from Sicily and Greece. Pyrrhos of Epeiros has forever left Sicily and made clear his intentions to focus his efforts in Greece and Macedonia. We will never again have to fear facing him in Sicily."

Mago pauses to let this information sink in, some of the Councilors cheer and applaud.

"However . . . he still maintains hostilities towards us despite the envoys from Syracuse who advocate peace between Kart-Hadast and Syracuse. We must decide how we will deal with this war footing with Epeiros. In the meantime, the state treasury wishes me to inform you that the expenses of our military and naval forces are too great for our current level of taxes to maintain. We have two choices in this regard. The first is to raise taxes where we are able to maintain our grip over the western Mediterranean. The second is to disband those vessels and soldiers we deem unecessary at the present time."

Mago is about to be seated when a messenger arrives, exhausted, and hands Mago a tablet. As Mago reads the tablet quickly the Council chambers are filled with a quite apprehension. Finally Mago finishes reading and with a grand gesture thrusts the tablet into the air in front of the Council. As he speaks his voice becomes more urgent, louder and is filled with vim and vigor.

"My dear Councilors, it seems there is yet one more matter to discuss today, scouts have spotted a large force of nomads amassing near Ippone. While they have made no advances as of yet, this is something that we must take seriously. Should they move on Ippone, and break the peace we have established with the Numidians, Ippone will be unable to defend itself!"

Finishing his speech by gazing around the assembly, looking into the heart of every Council Member, Mago sits and waits for a response.

[johnhughthom]

Danel Hanno rises to speak.

Friends, the matter of the nomads does indeed sound urgent we should move to counter it immediately. If Pyrrhos is truly no threat to Sicily we should remove our forces from there to help counter the Numidian tribesmen. If our treasury cannot sustain our present forces we should indeed look to disband what is not useful, I propose we send our elephants back to the wild. They are little more than an exercise in vanity, against skirmishing horsemen like the Numidians they would be more of a hindrance than a help. We have a large cavalry force, yes? This should be our defence against the nomads.
I say all we need to keep peace in our cities is a small core of Punic citizens, anything else is pointless extravagance.Our fleet, though, must be kept intact. How could we look our forefathers in the eye in the afterlife if we abandoned our Punic heritage by cutting our fleet. No, Carthage rules the waves and must continue to do so, the trade lanes need to be defended.
Thank you.

The merchant take his seat.

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Wow this is becoming a fad since Maion did his isnt it?

[Tyrfingr]

Xenophanes stands up and adresses the council:

Honored members of the council. It is indeed great news to hear that Pyrrhus the Menace have left Magna Graecia for his home in Epeiros, this is truly an opportunity for our sicilian army to gain control of the entire island. Must I remind you, that Syrakousai still posses a threat to our hegemony on the sea? I suggest a naval blockade of Syrakousai. Let the isolation take its toll on both warrior and peasant in the city, and then we shall conquer it.

As for the matter of the nomads near Ippone, I'd say CRUSH THEM!

[Vasiliyi]

Akbar the lame stands,

"My dear friends, what you have said is wise, but keeping our navy? What for? Sure, a small fleet of hardened warriors is good, but the whole of it?! That is expensive! I too think that the elephants should be disbanded and released into the wild. As for the nomads, well let us raise a small force to keep them at bay, perhaps even recalling Gisco toward the capital, just for security reasons?

What about our army? What will the composition look like?"

[Tyrfingr]

Xenophanes rises once more, to adress Akbar the lame:

I was told that Akbar's limb was only reduced to his body, and not that his logic and intelligence has started to limb as well. For it is folly to disband the fleet that has once created this mighty state that we all belong to. I can garantee, that as soon as we disband our fleet, the Romani dogs will seek to challenge our control over the trade in our part of the world!

[Vasiliyi]

Xenophanes rises once more, to adress Akbar the lame:

I was told that Akbar's limb was only reduced to his body, and not that his logic and intelligence has started to limb as well. For it is folly to disband the fleet that has once created this mighty state that we all belong to. I can garantee, that as soon as we disband our fleet, the Romani dogs will seek to challenge our control over the trade in our part of the world!

Akbar chuckles at the joke made by Xenophanes before he gets up to speak.

"Oh yes, I do lack in intellect my friend, since I am here sitting with a bunch of old fat men,and not at my own pleasure palace. No, I have thought of what you said, and have had a change of heart. Perhaps it is the fact that you were once a sailor that we think a bit differently, but keeping the navy may be a good idea, if we have the funds for it. But I do agree, those Romans can't be trusted. We have personally watched over the years as they make treaties and break them at a whim only to help themselves to the spoils. They recently took over Ariminum haven't they? And then where will they go? South? North? They will be a bother soon. I think in our own life time. Perhaps we should strike first? What say you, my dear country men?"

[Tyrfingr]

Xenophanes smiles towards Akbar as he rises once more:

Akbar's mind is not dull and his logic is not limbing, neither is mine. The navy of Carthage is the envy of the entire world, but perhaps we need to adapt it after the reality.

*Xenophanes turns towards Mago the Saphot*

How does the finances look? Can we afford our large fleet?

[the man with no name]

Name: Hannibal Barca (Bad at making names so sry):(
Age: 29
Ethnicity: Punic
Description: He is a great warrior (but not the one ur thinking of) and has by far proven his loyalty to the Shofet. Grew up stick fighting even though his father said this would "never help you in your adulthood". In fact his father wanted for him to become a merchabnt like he was. Instead he went to the academy where he studied military tactics and became a General (1 star) he now serves with others in subjacating numidia.

[Tanit]

Mago stands to speak.

" My dear Council Members, we can indeed afford our fleet, and by general consensus we will disband our elephants and march our armies to Ippone. In the meantime, I refuse to abandon our newfound alliance with Syracuse, so I will make no aggressive move towards them. In the interest of maintaining that peace I will dispatch Annibas with all haste to Taras where he will enact a treaty of peace with Pyrrhos of Epeiros.'

"As for the Romans. We will not be the ones to break an alliance so long as I live, lest I be overruled. But as the Council is divided on this matter, I will not strike at this time. If we are lucky their interests will be in Gaul, not Sicily. The Council is Adjourned."

Stay tuned for the update.

[Tanit]

Summer 542 Years Since Foundation

https://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1525/rometw2009042721003757.th.png (https://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009042721003757.png)
The Elephants were disbanded into the wild.

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1008/rometw2009042721023137.th.png (https://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009042721023137.png)
Troops have been gathered from Adrumeto, Sicily, Kart-Hadast and Atiqa. Presently they are led by Captain Ashtzaph.

https://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8034/rometw2009042721011310.th.png (https://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009042721011310.png)
Annibas has arrived in Sicily safely but has discovered a disturbing piece of information, Roman spies are active within our territory in Sicily!

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4899/rometw2009042721055825.th.png (https://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009042721055825.png)
Taxes have been raised in our Libyan provinces under Adrumeto and Atiqa. However, this may not be sufficient. The treasury recommends we raise taxes in our Iberian provinces as well.

https://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5874/rometw2009042721072003.th.png (https://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009042721072003.png)
Turmoil in the East! Arche Seleukeia has lost its hold over Pontos, Caucasia and Baktria!

https://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5490/rometw2009042721085404z.th.png (https://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009042721085404z.png)
Pyrrhos captures Pella! The infamous Pyrrhos of Epeiros has driven the Makedonians and the Antigonid successors out of their own capital!

https://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1756/rometw2009042721090417.th.png (https://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009042721090417.png)
Lusitannian encroachment. Though these are our allies, it is of some concern that they are expanding their territory so near to us.



Mago Stands to Speak

We have all heard the reports from afar Councilors. A string of disconcerting news to say the least. Events in Africa seem to be well under control, but events afar seem ever to be moving against us.

Admittedly the collapse of Arche Seleukeia would do us little harm. However, Roman interest in Sicily! The chance that Epeiros might become the master of all Greece! And not least of all the threat of encroaching Iberian tribes! This is the hour in which we are tested! Our actions now will define the course of our great city for decades to come.

[Vasiliyi]

Akbar stands, using a cane to support himself.

"My dear country men! Rome in sicily? Wasn't it just a few days ago that I mentioned their expansion into OUR sphere? Oh, gentlemen, I will not stand for this. Let us build an army and Lead it against the Romans and CRUSH them! Sicily will be ours and the grain we extract from it will keep our granaries full forever! What do you say gentlemen?"

[johnhughthom]

Danel Hanno stands,

You will not stand for what Akbar? Rome using agents to keep an eye on what is happening in an nearby territory? Grow up, this is what states do, this is what we should be doing. If you tell me Roman soldiers are marching through Sicily, that is different, but a few spies? Who cares? For all we know they could be checking out local grain markets making sure Rome isn't getting ripped off. Sure they may be checking our forces in the area, but only to see if we are ready to expand. Not that anybody would advocate such a foolish policy.

Looks at Akbar before sitting.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Name: Αναξαγορας of Kyrene (Anaxagoras)

Age: 31

Ethninticity: Greco-Punic

Description: Sired by a Punic merchant visiting Kyrene, but was stolen form Kyrene when his father left. Lived on the seas most of his life, but came to Carthage to study law when was 16. He quickly worked his way up to his current position. He is staunchly loyal to Carthage ,but will naturally try to avoid conflict with greece. He hates roman scum.

[Tyrfingr]

Xenophanes takes the stand:

Did I not warn for this to happen? Did I not say that the romanoi were out to challenge us? I wished the council would have taken my warnings into higher regards, for now every city, town or village might be crawling with roman spies. Who knows, maybe they got spies in this very chamber, the gods forbid? I'd say we declare war on the romanoi dogs, and teaches them a lesson!

[the man with no name]

Xenophanes takes the stand:

Did I not warn for this to happen? Did I not say that the romanoi were out to challenge us? I wished the council would have taken my warnings into higher regards, for now every city, town or village might be crawling with roman spies. Who knows, maybe they got spies in this very chamber, the gods forbid? I'd say we declare war on the romanoi dogs, and teaches them a lesson!

Here Here!!!!!(roars from the senate)

[Vasiliyi]

Akbar stands, facing Danel Hanno

"Well dear friend? Do you want to call all of us fools? War with rome is Inevitable. Let us vote, and we will win. Im sorry Danel, but we are the majority!"

[the man with no name]

Akbar stands, facing Danel Hanno

"Well dear friend? Do you want to call all of us fools? War with rome is Inevitable. Let us vote, and we will win. Im sorry Danel, but we are the majority!"

Hannibal stands up

WE GO TO WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(many roars from senate 99%of it)

[Ghaust the Moor]

Αναξαγορας stands:


" I realize that the majority of you agree that war is the best policy, but unfortunatly, I have to agree with Danel. Do we ourselves not spy on our friends and enemys alike? They are just making sure we haven't grown to powerful for them. When they invade sicily, than I'll understand, but not a spy. I suggest we just strengthen our garrison, now that the spy is gone, so they have false impressions. This not a matter for war, now an assasin, maybe."


He sits.

[the man with no name]

Αναξαγορας stands:


" I realize that the majority of you agree that war is the best policy, but unfortunatly, I have to agree with Danel. Do we ourselves not spy on our friends and enemys alike?
They are just making sure we haven't grown to powerful for them. When they invade sicily, than I'll understand, but not a spy. I suggest we just strengthen our garrison,
now that the spy is gone, so they have false impressions. This not a matter for war, now an assasin, maybe."


He sits.

"Dude the decision is clear, WE GO TO WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:smg::smg::smg::smg::smg::hmg::hmg::hmg::hmg:

[Tanit]

Mago stands to address the Senate.

"My dear senators, I cannot resist this overwhelming vote. However I would appreciate some restraint in this endeavor."

Mago let suspicious smile slip,

"We will not be the ones to start a war. I will create an army to assault Rhegium, and I will send a message to Annibas to inform the Romans that this assault on Italy is an effort to assist them."

OOC: Stand by for an update tomorrow.

[Vasiliyi]

Akbar Stands to address Mago,

"My my Mago, are you an genious or what? I bow to your conniving ways. This is an excellent plan."

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Name: Tanibal Mago Sicilio (also known by his enemies as 'The Bastard')
Age: 26
Background: Son of Mago, but illegitimate, by a Sicilian Greek priestess of Aphrodite, so not officially part of the royal family or in line of succession. Worshipper of Greek goddess Aphrodite. Very capable diplomat and merchant. Known and respected by some for wise advice, but despised by others for not being a warrior, or for worshipping a foreign goddess. Politics - generally pro-peace.

<talks to Mago>

"My lord, I know that you, like myself, value peace. The true strength of Kart-Hadast is in peaceful trade, not war. Gold has made our city powerful, rather than force of arms.

The Senate, carried away by bloodlust and folly, has voted for war against the Romani, but they neglected to say WHICH Romani. Nor have they even considered what our objectives should be in this war!

As you are no doubt aware, Rome claims rulership over all Italians. That means, DIPLOMATICALLY speaking, as regards foreign policy, all Italians are in fact Romani. Not just the ones from Roma.

This means that the rulers of Rhegium, being a rogue Romani army of Campanian-Italian ethic origin, are actually Romani, even though they have rebelled against Roma. Even the Messanians, being led by rogue Italian mercenaries who took over the Greek city of Messana, are also technically 'Romani'.

So - we can exploit this. We could attack these rebel 'Romani', satisfy the requirement of the Senate for war against 'the Romani' and yet remain at peace with the 'true' Romani from Roma itself.

If the Senate complains, you can point to their lack of clarity in setting objectives for the war. Since they had no idea themselves of what our strategy should be, they can hardly complain when you decide for them!

War with Roma is coming, but it doesn't need to start yet. Roma is by far the most powerful opponent we will have ever faced, six times more powerful than Syracuse. The Romani defeated the Epirote general Pyhruss, the greatest general of our age, when we failed to do so! While we have failed to even defeat Syracuse. War with Roma is therefore not to be taken lightly. They are relentless!

Victory in war, for Kart-Hadast, comes through gold, not reckless valour. If we see war on the horizon, we should prepare for it through peace. It is through building up our economy that we shall obtain the tremendous wealth required to fund a major war.

We are not yet rich enough to consider a major war with Roma. I estimate such a war will last at least 10 years and cost half a million mnai. Mercenaries and battle fleets are very expensive. We should delay war with Roma until we have such a sum saved in our treasury.

We should consolidate Sicily before seriously considering invading Italy proper. Rhegium is the gateway to Sicily, so we can take that as part of a Sicilian campaign. We need to take Messana as well, otherwise Rhegium will be isolated. And then Syracuse itself. Only then will we have a secure base for a major war with Roma.

We should also make sure Africa is secure from Numidian raiders. We should expand westwards along the north African coastline, taking the Numidian coastal cities. This will greatly improve our trade with our holdings in southern Spain, and therefore our tax income to spend on our army.

The Romani will keep for the moment. They will take Taras, but will then turn north to fight the hostile Gauls in northern Italy. We will benefit from delay far more than they will. Build the economy, deal with our minor enemies, and delay a major conflict with Roma until Sicily is ours.

That is all I have to say, my lord."

[the man with no name]

Mago stands to address the Senate.

"My dear senators, I cannot resist this overwhelming vote. However I would appreciate some restraint in this endeavor."

Mago let suspicious smile slip,

"We will not be the ones to start a war. I will create an army to assault Rhegium, and I will send a message to Annibas to inform the Romans that this assault on Italy is an effort to assist them."

OOC: Stand by for an update tomorrow.
(hannibal stands)
Very,very smart. Ingenious i might say. And to you new senator, i thought the strategy was obvious, surprise attack on roma, then take rest of the penninsula, but also, do you doubt Carthage as a rich nation? (senate starts saying do you? Do you?) I think we are rich enough to fund a war against the Romani. I don't mean to bully you but I thought every council member believed in Carthage. Do you?

[johnhughthom]

Danel Hanno


Once again dear Hannibal you show your ignorance, we indeed are rich, but why are we rich, hmm? Trade with Gauls? Iberians? Numidians? No, Romans. We are rich due to the ships criss-crossing the sea between Carthage and Rome. So what you propose would need an increase in our military while we send our economy down the toilet. I am no military expert but I understand trade, attacking Rome due to a bit of espionage is ludicrous. We will end up at war with everyone on earth if we follow your ways, what will happen if I send one of my slaves into your home to check out your situation? Will you declare war on me?

Hanno sits, realising the argument is lost but wanting to make some of his fellows see sense.

[the man with no name]

Danel Hanno


Once again dear Hannibal you show your ignorance, we indeed are rich, but why are we rich, hmm? Trade with Gauls? Iberians? Numidians? No, Romans. We are rich due to the ships criss-crossing the sea between Carthage and Rome. So what you propose would need an increase in our military while we send our economy down the toilet. I am no military expert but I understand trade, attacking Rome due to a bit of espionage is ludicrous. We will end up at war with everyone on earth if we follow your ways, what will happen if I send one of my slaves into your home to check out your situation? Will you declare war on me?

Hanno sits, realising the argument is lost but wanting to make some of his fellows see sense.


STFU, jk

"Dude i again thought it was obvious that i was being sarcastic when i said "we go to war" as soon ASAP. I was thinking that we should save up for a war for five years or so. We should also send many diplomats around the great sea to make trading deals with our fellow human beings."

[Tanit]

Fall 542 Years Since Foundation

Taxes have been raised in all outlying provinces to the highest level which is not inconvenient. Taxes remain relatively low in Carthage as raising taxes there is a tactic for emergencies.

The army proceeds to Ippone, no conflict has arisen yet.

The fleet is now in only two divisions, a small fleet in Spain, and the majority of our ships in Carthage under admiral Thero.

The latest announcements on the leading men of Carthage.
https://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4783/rometw2009050522450589.th.png (https://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009050522450589.png)

Bomilkar is gifted a daughter, Zita, and Gisgo marries the young Protogonia (19).

Constructions finished by the state this season.
https://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2238/rometw2009050522460181.png (https://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009050522460181.png)
https://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5663/rometw2009050522461395.th.png (https://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometw2009050522461395.png)

Diplomacy news.
A Ceasefire is in effect between the Romans and the Aedui.
Annibas has achieved a ceasefire with Epeiros and Trade rights.


Mago stands to address the Council.

"Dissension will serve us no good. It will be a number of years before we have amassed the forces to pursue a war with Rome, perhaps by then it will be a course we do not desire and we can direct ourselves elsewhere. Until that time, our focus should be to plan, and to defend our borders. We must also decide with whom we will share trade and with whom we will ally ourselves."

"I have personally sent messages to Bomilkar in Adrumeto and Gisgo in Ippone congratulating them on their recent additions to their families. My scribe is quite good at making my letters far more elegant than I can manage on my own."

The Council laughs.

[Vasiliyi]

Akbar stands,

"Tanibal Mago Sicilio, your words are wise indeed.. Although you may be a "bastard" you are clever. I have changed my mind and my Vote is to not go to war just yet. Let us, instead expand into Numidia. Make it our breadbasket. For the Numidians are weak and have no Allies. And it wont ruin relations with anyways if we do."

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

(hannibal stands)
And to you new senator, i thought the strategy was obvious, surprise attack on roma, then take rest of the penninsula, but also, do you doubt Carthage as a rich nation? (senate starts saying do you? Do you?) I think we are rich enough to fund a war against the Romani. I don't mean to bully you but I thought every council member believed in Carthage. Do you?

There's a difference between believing in Carthage through sure knowledge of ourselves and our enemies, and blind faith in the gods to bring us victory, which seems to be your belief. Assuming we will succeed at whatever we set out to do just because we are Carthaginians and Baal loves us, is folly. The gods help only those who help themselves.

Surprise attack on Roma itself? I see - a bold plan indeed, although treacherous and dishonourable!

A surprise attack means a direct assault, not a long seige - otherwise, it's not a surprise. A direct assault, against stone walls, could be costly - but could work provided the Romani only have a very small garrison in the city. And the assault would need to be very quick - so quick that the Romani would have no time to bring up their two field armies in defence.

To be that quick, it means attacking immediately after landing, without taking time to build heavy seige equipment. That means we would need spies to open the gates for us - a difficult task. Many spies would be needed to have a high chance of success. And Roma usually has very good security, so some of the spies may be caught and killed. If the spies fail, we'd have to go in with ladders. Ladders only work against undefended walls. For ladders to be sufficient, the Romani garrison will need to be very small and weak. That factor should be a necessary pre-requisite for this plan to go ahead.

We can't afford to damage the walls of Roma because we'd need them intact to defend and hold the city against the inevitable Romani counter-assault.

It's a workable plan - indeed the only workable plan for an IMMEDIATE war with Roma - although very risky if things go wrong! You are right, we can afford a war with the Romani - provided it is a SHORT war, and we take Roma right at the start, crippling the Romani economy! Then we can sack and plunder Roma, and use the proceeds to hire mercenaries to reinforce our relatively small army, and finish off the rest of the Romani before they can recover from the loss of their capital. If we fail, however, and lose our army in Italy, we will be in serious trouble, low on funds and low on troops!

We will gain a reputation for treachery regardless - the Romani are our allies, which is why they trust us to keep out of Italy, and don't have a strong navy. If we betray our alliance with Roma, none of our other allies will trust us again, and we could soon face war with the Lusotanns and the Egyptians.

I am opposed to this treacherous plan. It is not an honourable path. It could work, but only if everything goes according to plan. It's an 'all or nothing' gamble - and as a merchant I suppose I am instinctively opposed to such risky gambles, especially since it's the future of Carthage we are gambling with.

What do the other soldiers here think of this plan?

[the man with no name]

There's a difference between believing in Carthage through sure knowledge of ourselves and our enemies, and blind faith in the gods to bring us victory, which seems to be your belief. Assuming we will succeed at whatever we set out to do just because we are Carthaginians and Baal loves us, is folly. The gods help only those who help themselves.

Surprise attack on Roma itself? I see - a bold plan indeed, although treacherous and dishonourable!

A surprise attack means a direct assault, not a long seige - otherwise, it's not a surprise. A direct assault, against stone walls, could be costly - but could work provided the Romani only have a very small garrison in the city. And the assault would need to be very quick - so quick that the Romani would have no time to bring up their two field armies in defence.

To be that quick, it means attacking immediately after landing, without taking time to build heavy seige equipment. That means we would need spies to open the gates for us - a difficult task. Many spies would be needed to have a high chance of success. And Roma usually has very good security, so some of the spies may be caught and killed. If the spies fail, we'd have to go in with ladders. Ladders only work against undefended walls. For ladders to be sufficient, the Romani garrison will need to be very small and weak. That factor should be a necessary pre-requisite for this plan to go ahead.

We can't afford to damage the walls of Roma because we'd need them intact to defend and hold the city against the inevitable Romani counter-assault.

It's a workable plan - indeed the only workable plan for an IMMEDIATE war with Roma - although very risky if things go wrong! You are right, we can afford a war with the Romani - provided it is a SHORT war, and we take Roma right at the start, crippling the Romani economy! Then we can sack and plunder Roma, and use the proceeds to hire mercenaries to reinforce our relatively small army, and finish off the rest of the Romani before they can recover from the loss of their capital. If we fail, however, and lose our army in Italy, we will be in serious trouble, low on funds and low on troops!

We will gain a reputation for treachery regardless - the Romani are our allies, which is why they trust us to keep out of Italy, and don't have a strong navy. If we betray our alliance with Roma, none of our other allies will trust us again, and we could soon face war with the Lusotanns and the Egyptians.

I am opposed to this treacherous plan. It is not an honourable path. It could work, but only if everything goes according to plan. It's an 'all or nothing' gamble - and as a merchant I suppose I am instinctively opposed to such risky gambles, especially since it's the future of Carthage we are gambling with.

What do the other soldiers here think of this plan?
"you must realize that i implied that we trust in our coffers and our success. I also suggest we send about 6-7 good units to take the city and alot of levies to just help us make siege towers. I belive that we can wait one season"