attack the townsquare with phalanx

[Sabazios]

Hi all,

I'm playing a campaign with Epiros atm. I never really used phalanxes much when playing hellenic factions, because i'm impatious and like to strike quick. (yeah i know, i'm a barbarian :viking:) But this campaign i'm really enjoying phalanx warfare. Only thing that keeps annoying me is attacking the town square.
Does anybody got some good advise on how i can effectively attack the townsquare with my phalanx. Now my men will walk to the town square in phalanx formation, but then they walk diagonal onto the square and the enemy charges when there is just a few of my men on the square. Is there a way to get my men on the square in good order, so i can push from two sides and take almost no casualties myself? :laugh4:

[Jebivjetar]

When i attack town square with phalanx i simply move it on the road next to it (when enemy dont attack yet), then form phalanx and slowly move it to the edge of town square: when enemy attack, just stop the phalanx. When enemy engage phalanx, move some infantry behind them and its almost the same tactics as on the field (anvil and hammer) .



--------------------------
Road/ phalanx
--------------------------> border
/ /

/ Town Square /

/ /


Never saw so gorgeous pic, hm?

:clown:

[Maion Maroneios]

A very good question, Sabazios. I have quite a lot of experience dealing with phalanx factions (being a prominent Makedonia fan myself), so I know a few tricks.

First of all, I guess you've already figured out that phalanxes, when deployed properly during a siege, can hold the defenders at bay forever. Now when the defenders are confined to the town square, I guess you've also noticed that trying to get your phalanxes into formation in front of them can have disastrous results. In other words, sometimes phalanxes suck at getting into formation in time and get decimated.

The best thing you can do to get your guys into formation, is to use a "bait unit" as I call it, or Somatophylakes Strategou to make the defenders attack you, while you order your phalangites to get into formation. Be quick though, you don't want your men engaging to loose too quick. So when deploying phalanxes, make sure you are close enough to the town square itself, so that when you enable the phalanx formation, their pikes cross the border between the road and the town square. First move your "bite unit" away from the fight, then when the defenders go back to their position, enable the phalanx formation. The pikes getting into the "town square region" will incite the defenders, who will soon attack you. Once they're locked into position, you can use the remaining men of your "bait unit" to attack them from behind.

Hints: Use the "enveloping phalanx" technique. This means ordering one phalanx unit on to another, making the formation even denser and difficult to break than with a single pike fence. Also, use missile troops when the defendes are engaging your pikemen. They will cause massive casualties firing in their backs.

Maion

[Watchman]

The pathfinding around town squares is twenty different kinds of horrible. Personally, I try to make sure any siege army also features some shock infantry (the ubiquitous Celtic mercs tend to work fine) that can cheerfully just swarm in and start swinging without worrying too much about formations. They're useful as "covering forces" when moving the phalanxes through gates and breaches, and similar pathfinding trouble spots, too, and getting through the defenders of such chokepoints in the first place.

[soup_alex]

The pathfinding around town squares is twenty different kinds of horrible.
Cue

Eff

Tee.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I never attack the town square with a phalanx. Always use hoplites, peltasts, and Celtic mercs.

Mind you, with phalanx-heavy factions, I prefer sieges - make them come out and die, its easier that way. If you're in a hurry, seige with a smaller army, that way they sally out at the end of the turn, thinking they can win.

[athanaric]

If you still have some time left, do it properly:

https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9079/jungsvergesstes.jpg (https://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jungsvergesstes.jpg)

This was early campaign and I had to take Dardanoia quickly before the Getai could lay their greedy paws on it, so my army in the picture isn't ideally balanced.

[Aemilius Paulus]

The pikes getting into the "town square region" will incite the defenders, who will soon attack you. Once they're locked into position, you can use the remaining men of your "bait unit" to attack them from behind.

Hints: Use the "enveloping phalanx" technique. This means ordering one phalanx unit on to another, making the formation even denser and difficult to break than with a single pike fence. Also, use missile troops when the defendes are engaging your pikemen. They will cause massive casualties firing in their backs.

Maion
Same here. Except that I do not have the bait unit. I too noticed the need for quick phalanx-forming and all I do is order my phalangites to assemble just our side the square, ever careful to not let an stray inside it, as that is an instant when the AI troops will charge. So I let the pikes take their time and form up properly, and whenever I am ready, I simply order them to form a phalanx, and the pikes, which will fall into the town square, will incite the enemy to charge. I always set my phalanxes one on top of another, to lower the chances of the enemy, especially cavalry, heavily-armoured elites, officers, and 2-hp units of getting through.

HOWEVER, this will not work for barbarian towns. The town square there is raised, and performing the same trick will give the enemy a huge height advantage on the steep pedestal, with your pikes pointing up. As a result, due to height advantage, the enemy units will always get through and further decimate you with their height bonus. The most epic failures come with barbarian AP units, the worst of which will cut down even the experienced and weapon-upgraded Pezhetairoi.

There is a solution to this though, and it is very simple. Barbarian settlements are spaced out and with no narrow streets, and thus you will have space for a missile unit behind the phalanx. Since barbarian units are normally lighter-armoured than all of their civilised counterparts, the missiles will cause casualties and the enemy will immediately charge.

[ziegenpeter]

Hi all,
I never really used phalanxes much when playing hellenic factions
wuuuuut? You have to be a brave commander. Its like playing Saka without cav.

[Cute Wolf]

He could be more fond using hoplitai type, especially this was true with Hoplitai haploi are the only levy unit (put aside pantodapoi/deuteroi phalangitai and iudaioi taxeis) that can manage against far better troops... their defense in guard mode was superb compared to most:2thumbsup:

[Maion Maroneios]

He could be more fond using hoplitai type, especially this was true with Hoplitai haploi are the only levy unit (put aside pantodapoi/deuteroi phalangitai and iudaioi taxeis) that can manage against far better troops... their defense in guard mode was superb compared to most:2thumbsup:
I second that :yes: Hoplitai, for example (the Classical type), are real tanks. They can hold the line forever when deployed correctly. Even against pikemen, they can be counted upon to hold their ground until you outflank them.

Maion

[Sabazios]

thx @ all for your input!

I guess i'll stick to using a bait like some of you suggested, when my army is mostly composed of phalanxes and there is no other heavy infantry at hand. For now i used my FMs as bait, which works quite well as it gives my phalanxes enough time for formating inside the townsquare and the FM can be retreated quickly and make room for flanking units.

Also tried deploying my phalanxes alongside the townsquare on the road. (which i normally do when attacking with other units) This doesnt seems to work for me with phalanxes, as i cant always manage to get them in formation facing the middle without walking inside the square yet.


@athanaric
lol i really lack the patience for that!

@ziegenpeter
I used to play vanilla and later some XGM and this is only my third EB campaign. I always used hoplites and just few phalanxes. Before this campaign i always thought of phalanxes to be to slow for (counter)attacking and even 'boring'. But i'm having a real good time with them now! :2thumbsup:

[Andy1984]

This is how I got my phalangites safely on the Alexandrian townsquare:
https://i42.tinypic.com/nb3kp2.jpg
My siege equipment was placed behind the city walls.

[athanaric]

:dizzy2:

Another Alexandria bug?

[Andy1984]

:dizzy2:

Another Alexandria bug?
It has possibly something to do with the positioning of my army on the campaign map. I positioned it directly east of the city (there is a tiny stroke of land there), and got my men placed in the city. In a previous campaign I shipped them to the west of the city, and I ended up on the vast flat terrain you see on the left of the picture. That time, I could also see the sea on my map, whereas this time there was no sea on the battlemap (apart from the sea you spot on the horizon).