Mobile Artillery

[Tomisama]

Why isn’t all non fixed artillery truly mobile?


Frederick the Great of Prussia introduced the idea of mounting the guns and crews on horseback and wagons, the invention of horse artillery. This innovation greatly increased the mobility of field artillery so that commanders could routinely move the guns around and change deployments for maximum effect. At the same time, of course, guns were becoming lighter and the aiming mechanisms more accurate. The result was the introduction of a truly deadly combat arm that would, over time, be responsible for more casualties than any other weapon.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/gabrmetz/gabr001a.htm

Frederick the Great lived from 1740 to 1786.

So at least in the late era, why are all non fixed guns not completely horse mobile? This foot artillery thing never did sit well with me.

Anyone else?

[CBR]

Foot artillery meant guns and caissons were horse drawn while the crew walked beside them. Horse artillery could have more horses pulling the guns too. Overall horse artillery required around twice the horses IIRC

The number of available horses were limited which meant it was not possible to find enough horses even if one wanted all horse batteries. The heavy 12 pounders were also not very suited for such a role which is why you see most horse batteries in the 3-6 pounder category (some 8-9 pounders could be used too though IIRC)


CBR

[Tomisama]

Ok, I’m getting educated here.

Smaller caliber guns, being lighter thereby easer to move, so faster in movement are called “horse artillery” in the game (possibly more correctly “mounted artillery”).

They being the counter part of the larger caliber, harder to move, so slower “foot artillery”.

Both names “horse” and “foot” have nothing to do with modes of transportation (as both are horse drawn), but rates of compared speed of location movement.

The above understanding (or what I think I understand) was derived from an article written about the terms as understood 50-100 years later. But I believe not too much had changed conceptually in the interim.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/artilleryterms.htm

Edit: No I have it wrong!

Reading again I believe I understand even less.

"Horse" and "foot" at one point could also be attributed to cavalry or infantry capabilities of those artillerymen not assigned to drive the guns around.

Takes a smarter person than me to bridge all of the confusion.

I’ll stick to CBR's version :wink:


But after all it was an article about confusion and contradiction of terms :dizzy2:

[CBR]

I'll generalize a bit for typical Napoleonic times artillery structure:

Light artillery: 6 pounders
Heavy artillery: 12 pounders
Horse artillery: maybe 1/4 of the 6 pounder batteries and meant the crews were riding on horses (instead of walking as they did in the foot artillery) to make the battery go nearly as fast as cavalry.

Horse artillery had two purposes: one was being attached to cavalry units and the other was acting as a fast reserve for a commander to quickly reinforce a part of the battlefield.

Typical French structure put 6 pounders on the divisional level while leaving the heavy 12 pounder partly at the corps and as army reserve. They might also have one horse battery in the division.

The Russians term for heavy artillery was IIRC "position artillery" which shows the same idea with the heavy guns as a not so mobile concentrated reserve while the lighter guns (not horse artillery) could be detached in pairs to individual battalions or stay in 6 gun batteries under brigade control.

The Austrians had their "wurst" (sausage because of their characteristic shape) wagons that the gun crews would sit in. And that is where things become a bit more complex compared to my above categories because increased mobility was not just about horses but also what types of wagons that were used. But not that important unless one wants extra details.


CBR

[Tomisama]

Thanks CB :smile:


My last try at deciphering the only text referenced.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/artilleryterms.htm


Foot Artillery = Heavy Artillery = big guns = their Artillerymen armed and serving as Infantry.
[This would be our current Fixed Artillery]


Field Artillery divided into Mounted Artillery and Horse Artillery.

Mounted Artillery = operate with Infantry = referred to as foot (Infantry) Artillery = Harnessed Artillery (horse drawn) = unarmed.
[This would be our current Foot Artillery]

Horse Artillery = assigned to work with Cavalry = mounted (each man had his own mount) = armed with side arms = and horse drawn.
[This of course our current Horse Artillery]


Light Artillery was all Field Artillery, but Field Artillery was not necessarily all Light Artillery. Light meaning light or fast in speed (flying).

My conjecture was wrong:


Both names “horse” and “foot” have nothing to do with modes of transportation (as both are horse drawn), but rates of compared speed of location movement.

What I now believe was meant:

Horse Artillery was faster than Mounted Artillery, which made it is Light Artillery in comparison.

Sorry :bow:

[CBR]

I do think that website does make it more confusing heh.

If we go back to the early 18th century then we have lots of the smaller 3 and 4 pounders. They might have had a few dedicated gunners but the rest of the crew was drawn directly from the infantry battalion it was supporting. Such guns were IIRC drawn by horses but left to themselves on the battlefield and performed the role of direct support for its battalion.

Although you still see some of that in Napoleonic times it was not as widespread and some armies did not use it at all.

The Napoleonic foot artillery did not have any different armament for its crews that I know of.

The armies I know of simply used terms like foot and horse artillery but maybe the US army used the term mounted too in the early/mid 19th century.

ETW does have fixed guns in the beginning and I guess that is one way of making the technology change work in the campaign. Guns in the early 18th century was rather on the heavy side and with the use of civilian horse teams that ran away at the first shot that might be the reason why CA decided to make them fixed.

Edit: From your link it seems "mounted" was more of a term of honor to show the difference between those who were cross trained and those who were not. Their function still seemed to be the same as the regular foot artillery.

CBR

[Tomisama]

I do think that website does make it more confusing heh.

Yes it is confusing, but the comparison to the next mid century helped me to isolate the current era, and bring it into better focus. Seeing where this would be going, giving a better understanding of where we are now.

In between is the Napoleonic, wich I believe will have even more emphasis on the highly mobile Horse Artillery, and add the concept of the Grand Battery.

I think that the early 1800s will naturally be the target of the expansion, and I can hardly wait :grin:

[Tomisama]

Check this out!


Ok, this is not a bug. Here's how it works.
3 and 6 lber Horse Artillery crews are essentially cavalry with all men on mounts, so when grouped with cavalry will move as cavalry.
12 lber and Howitzer crews are essentially infantry and are on foot. If you group them with cavalry the group speed is reduced to that of infantry.
The Horse Artillery grouped with infantry will also move at the speed of infantry.
I tested this today, but please feel free to verify my findings.

http://clanwars3540.yuku.com/topic/989/master/1/?page=1

[FearofNC]

you can make foot arty run by grouping it with a regular unit and double right clicking.. this does not work if you click once and use the run button/"r"

it will move faster than inf walk but slower than they run.. and knowing how to do this makes horse art less appealing....

[Tomisama]

you can make foot arty run by grouping it with a regular unit and double right clicking.. this does not work if you click once and use the run button/"r"

it will move faster than inf walk but slower than they run.. and knowing how to do this makes horse art less appealing....

Yup, and as I found in further investigation.


12 lber and Howitzer only run if they are grouped with cavalry or infantry.

When grouped with cavalry they run at infantry run speed and the cavalry seem to trot rather than run. There seems to be a compromise going on, with the gun crews trying to keep up, but slowing the cavalry.

As you said, the Foot crews do not run on their own, which I don't think is right either. But could infer that it is very difficult for them so, and only do it when inspired to keep up with a group-mate unit.

It may cost them dearly in fatigue to run also, something we may find out later.http://clanwars3540.yuku.com/topic/989

Do you think that it is a bug that Foot crews do not run on their own?

[FearofNC]

i think its a bug one way or the other... either art can run... and you should be able to select the speed with the ui... or it cant run... and it should not run at all even if grouped