Bleeding a sally/city

[Macilrille]

I like to be attacker or defender, both has its merits.

Another thing, similar to the sally to hurt enemy is a tactic I have dreamed up, send a small army to besiege an enemy city, then when they sally, thinking they can beat you. Hurt them as much as you can without hurting much yourself, then retreat (surrender), next turn do it again and so on till they are bled white, so you can take the city.

I tried it with Cyrene, but it turned into a Heroic Victory instead (oups). Does anyone know whether it will actually work, or does the AI autoheal?

[Mediolanicus]

The AI "wins" the battle so it heals casualties.

Also in my EB campaign with BI on M difficulty the AI usually retrains between retreat and new seige.

[ziegenpeter]

The AI "wins" the battle so it heals casualties.

Also in my EB campaign with BI on M difficulty the AI usually retrains between retreat and new seige.

What? Even on field battles? I was always trying to do as much damage as possible and then flee.

[Atraphoenix]

for defence it works I sally every turn mostly manage to break the siege in the 3rd trial.
but not for attacking. If they sally kill'em all!

[athanaric]

It is a standard move of the Artificial Idiocy, however I wouldn't try it, as it is not very effective. A better method is to send and army that is just inferior to the defenders, making them sally. Now if your army is reasonably balanced - or specially equipped for beating a certain kind of garrison - you will have little difficulty beating the AI. For example you could attack Taksashila with a half stack consisting of peltasts, Baktrian Hillmen and Archer-Spearmen. The city is very difficult to take by force but if the AI army sallies, you can turn them into pincushions.
However, the main problem arising from "my" strategy is how to pacify the city afterwards.

[satalexton]

thats easy, just enslave em' all =P

[ziegenpeter]

for defence it works I sally every turn mostly manage to break the siege in the 3rd trial.
but not for attacking. If they sally kill'em all!

But how do you get the draw? because you cant retreat when you sally, right?

[athanaric]

But how do you get the draw? because you cant retreat when you sally, right?

Have all your soldiers move back into the city (including reinforcements!). Then check the message you get if you click "end battle". There should be a message saying "Euer Ausfall war erfolgreich [...]" (Your sally was successful). Now you can click OK.

[TheStranger]

But that's only possible if you play with the battle time limit.

[Macilrille]

That subject is discussed at length here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112888&highlight=Understanding+a+sally

However, if I may, I would like to get the thread back on topic, can AI sallies be bled? Not defeated, but bled?

I would love to, but the only time I tried it worked so well I won the battle. Has anyone tried it and did it work?

[HunGeneral]

I have managed to blled them with the help of my nomad horsemen when they besiege me, but when I'm sieging they refuse to come out until there starved... which means they don't get far out of the gates before they end in a rain of arrows.:skull:

[DaciaJC]

I tried this "bleeding a sally" strategy just yesterday with a group of 5 Getikoi Hippotoxotai (with at least 3 chevrons) against a full stack of Lugoae (fighting for Epeiros) garrisoned in a city. I managed to get ~800 kills, destroying half of their force, without losing a single horseman. However, I was forced to withdraw (no arrows left), and after the battle, it seemed like the AI simply recouped most of its losses. I'll be trying once more (and this time with a spy to see the true effects).

[d'Arthez]

Just play without battle time limit, and wait until the timer is up. Time-up draws do not allow for healing of casualties.

Cheap exploit of RTW engine:
You can try and let them ALL come out. Rout a single unit and take control of the walls. Simply lure the non-routing units away from the gates, and chase the routers with 1 or 2 units of cavalry. Extremely unbalanced exploit though (you can conquer mainland Italy with SPQR in 4 turns with your starting armies that way (!).

Frontline, you can also use the perfect_spy script, so you don't have to bother with spies to see the effect of your tactics on oppostion numbers.

[DaciaJC]

Frontline, you can also use the perfect_spy script, so you don't have to bother with spies to see the effect of your tactics on oppostion numbers.

Can you explain, mate? I'm fairly horrid at scripting/modding.

[Vasiliyi]

But that's only possible if you play with the battle time limit.

I think your wrong, because i dont play with time limit and I do sally and then return safely

[Atraphoenix]

no just take all of your men inside the city. I always played without time limited. But if there is some fleeing ones you should wait for them to be cool. I confirm Vasili. He is right.

[TheStranger]

Sorry I forgot the question mark. :oops: I always thought it was only possible with time limit, but I was wrong.

I didn't know that there are so many options when sallying or sieging. Something I must have missed since vanilla rome.

[d'Arthez]

Can you explain, mate? I'm fairly horrid at scripting/modding.
The perfect_spy script is the other script in EB. Once you have activated the EBBS, hit 'F1'. It comes up with a scroll for controls. You need to hit the question mark on that scrooll, and you will get the option to activate the perfect_spy script (genericScript.txt in the same folder as the EBBS). (Advisor pop up similar to the one for the EBBS).

I have not installed EB 1.2 since November last year, so I am not 100% certain if the script is blocked out by a ';'

Either way it should be something like
;
; This is a placeholder script. Its purpose is to provide a valid
; but completely safe script to resolve the Script command in
; the Generic_Script_Thread. See EXPORT_DESCR_ADVICE.TXT.
;
script
console_command toggle_perfect_spy
end_script

[Atraphoenix]

The perfect_spy script is the other script in EB. Once you have activated the EBBS, hit 'F1'. It comes up with a scroll for controls. You need to hit the question mark on that scrooll, and you will get the option to activate the perfect_spy script (genericScript.txt in the same folder as the EBBS). (Advisor pop up similar to the one for the EBBS).

I have not installed EB 1.2 since November last year, so I am not 100% certain if the script is blocked out by a ';'

Either way it should be something like

what is the difference between perfect_spy and toggle_fow?
toggle_fow is enough for all methinks.

[Mediolanicus]

Adding the line "console_command toggle_perfect_spy" (without ") in EBBS should do the trick.
I did that, so every time I activate the script I activate perfect_spy too.
Although pressing F1 and clicking on ? will activate perfect spy too in 1.2 IIRC



what is the difference between perfect_spy and toggle_fow?
toggle_fow is enough for all methinks.

Biiiig difference.

toggle_fow = you see the whole map.

perfect_spy = fog of war stays (unless you toggle_fow of course), but you can see all the enemy's units and buildings. You only need a spy to see the character traits.

[Atraphoenix]

thanks mate, tested :yes: It makes a wonder plus it is only 1KB :laugh4: