which is the coolest CIVILIZED faction, and why?

[Duguntz]

Hey hey hey, welcome to all EB and history fan! In my last thread, I asked who were the favourite barbarians of everybody and the thread had some success (and I like long conversation on that subject!) But many replied that anyway they prefered the more ''civilised'' factions. I guess that it's for their shining armors and shining mnai that they got A LOT MORE than my so dear sweboz (who never dwindeled in cash nor in history, and SURELY not in my campain!) So here is the new thread :

Who is the best civilised faction, for the best or worse, and why? I cannot answer that question myself, as in the previous thread, becaude I never played a civilised faction... that's what happen when we're fan of barbarian! But I guess that it's a tottaly other challange to play as Rome or KH or Baktria...

So don't be ashame and post!

[Maion Maroneios]

Makedonia. Period. Explanation unnecessary.

Maion

[Ghaust the Moor]

Epirus. or Maybe Baktria. Its kinda a tie for me.

[Atraphoenix]

Petty Pontics they have Hellenic, Persian, Scythian, Celtic units. :laugh4:
I established a ban on nudity that my Celtoi hated that law.
I just converted to play with them after I got bored hit and run, run, run, run, hit, hit , charge tactics of Ashkanians. But I love them both factions. They are both great challenge.

[cezarip]

Romani. Reforms, cool units, you will have to face untold number of enemies before accomplishing the victory conditions. Variety. Cool office traits system!

[Yarema]

My choice would be the Romans of course, not only because they gave birthto the true eropeancivilization (i think the ancient Greek's oriental connections were to strong to make them truly eeopean - no offense to ancient Greeks and theri fans of course).
Seriously now, their units are much more versatile than the clumsy, slow and unflexible phalanx and hoplites (yes, i admit it: i don't like leading phalanx in battle - not that i don't know how to do it, i just find it rather unnerving).

BUT MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL:
The second thing is that the Romans give you a chance to face many different type of armiies and fighting styles in the very beginning: you have those annoing clever-clever Greeks on the south-east, the bloodthirsty :whip: barbraric Gauls in the north, and of course those damn insidious liars the Phoenicians in the south-west. If you choose to attack Spain early, you will also face the Lusotana, a mixture of Gallic and Phoenician tactics with excellent light infantry. If you attack Greece, than later you may either choose to expand to asia minor or against the Daco-Getai.

None of the other civilised factions have such a choice - for example Baktria can only fight nomads or Seleucids, the incest dynasty (Hehehe :laugh4:) can only fight Seleucids or Phoenicians, Koinon Hellenon or Macedon have no other choice but to immediatly begin the fight against other Greeks, and so on. The only type of armies that the Romans can't face in the beginning are the nomads - you can reach thme only after you deal with the knigdom-to-be of Burebista and Decebalus.

So if you want a civilized faction, don't hesitate, choose the Romani, and become a proud Homo Novus like Caius Marius, Acilius Glabrio or Marcus Tullius Cicero! :2thumbsup:

[Duguntz]

:laugh4: Well i don't know why, but I think you, Maion, are a fan of Makedonia! perhaps living there as well! unfortunatly for makedonians of today (and not of ancient makedonia) they're mostly a part of Bulgaria! (well, i know that they argue so much that they're independant and bla bla bla) and Bulgars say the opposite, a bit the same problem then France and Corsica (no worry, I don't take any position there, I just state fact!)

But isn't all phalanx-based Faction a bit the same? I mean, Mak., Epeiros, KH, (maybe less for KH as they use mostly classical hoplite...) I don't know, as I said, I never played as civilized... I prefer to drink in their skull after my heroic victory, ther destroying everything and put europe back 300 years earlier under the rules of sweboz! :smash:

[Skullheadhq]

Heil Makedonia!

[Atraphoenix]

:laugh4: Well i don't know why, but I think you, Maion, are a fan of Makedonia! perhaps living there as well! unfortunatly for makedonians of today (and not of ancient makedonia) they're mostly a part of Bulgaria! (well, i know that they argue so much that they're independant and bla bla bla) and Bulgars say the opposite, a bit the same problem then France and Corsica (no worry, I don't take any position there, I just state fact!)


Modern Makedonia or FYROM just Macedon in name that European nostalgists uses wrongly... If they have any relation I am the last of the mohicans...

[Duguntz]

A name that nostalgist use wrongly? Maybe for the nostalgists, but there is, actually a territory named Macedonia, althouth it have nothing to do with ancient Makedonia...

1. Not the same territory
2. They speak bulgarian (with some tweak in accent and words) not even close to greek
3. they're a different people, once and for all!

Although those differences, officially, they're still macedonians! so the word is used wrongly only depending on the context it is used!

[Atraphoenix]

Believe it or not, Thracian in modern times means a person who lives in European side of Turkey.
Turks still uses original name Thrace, "Trakya" in Turkish (Thrace (Bulgarian: Тракия, Trakiya or "Trakija" or Trakia, Greek: Θράκη, Thráki, Turkish: Trakya) is a historical and geographic area in southeast Europe. Today the name Thrace designates a region spread over southern Bulgaria (Northern Thrace), northeastern Greece (Western Thrace), and European Turkey (Eastern Thrace). Thrace borders on three seas: the Black Sea, the Aegean Sea and the Sea of Marmara. In Turkey, it is also called Rumeli.)

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Bah! Those Greek barbarians could hardly be seen as 'civilized', and don't make me start on the Romans.

[Atraphoenix]

which is the coolest CIVILIZED faction, and why?
CIVILIZED must be omitted or we will have another thread war, trust me..
my coolest "but relatively civilized" factions as I said before Pontos and Ashkhanian.:focus:

[Duguntz]

Wow, I didn't know that! I've often been in Bulgaria (my ex gf is bulgarian) and went in the historical area of ancient trakia, where, in small villages, peoples (mostly old persons) still call themselves Trakians!!! i was swimming in extase to be in such a historical world, when we forget all the crappy administration of bulgaria, and the corruption, and we can immerse ourself in what was Makedonia, Trakia, and actually see those hill, still all forested (as construction have been prohibited in osme area) and when, north of a village named Shiroka-Luka, In the Rodopi mountains we see a small Indication saying '' here is born Oedipe'' . I went there dozens of time, just for that lil bit of immersion (well, as well as to see my ex!)

Well sorry, that was out of the thread! lol, I can't stop when I start to talk! But as for the word Trakians used for people living west of Turkey, i didn't know! Only about the part of Bulgaria (as it's obvious!

[Atraphoenix]

so that means it is all relative think about america is it on the east or west?
For a japan it is on the east from here it is on the west ... :dizzy2:
so, so long as human survives so does ironies :laugh4:
we are killing the topic BTW..

[Maion Maroneios]

:laugh4: Well i don't know why, but I think you, Maion, are a fan of Makedonia! perhaps living there as well! unfortunatly for makedonians of today (and not of ancient makedonia) they're mostly a part of Bulgaria! (well, i know that they argue so much that they're independant and bla bla bla) and Bulgars say the opposite, a bit the same problem then France and Corsica (no worry, I don't take any position there, I just state fact!)
I am a fan of Makedonia, but I don't live there. I live in Heraklion, Crete, as stated underneath my avatar. And those flaming anti-Roman posts are a joke between me and Satalexton.

Makedonians of today are a part of Bulgaria? That must have been the joke of the week! No, no wait of the entire year! Do you even know where modern-day Bulgarians come from? Most importantly, when they arrived in the Balkans and settled there? After you read this, go and read some about Hellenistic history in general. If you're too bored to do that, you can just check when the Makedones lived and when the Bulgarians came to the Balkans.

And we don't claim independency from anyone. We are a nation, united. Many, many differences from the Ancient Hellenes, that I admit, but the spirit doesn't die with time, as language and customs do. But I don't have anything against Bulgarians, note that.


Modern Makedonia or FYROM just Macedon in name that European nostalgists uses wrongly... If they have any relation I am the last of the mohicans...
Ah, somebody who actually bothers to read some history and cross some facts! Kudos to you sir.


A name that nostalgist use wrongly? Maybe for the nostalgists, but there is, actually a territory named Macedonia, althouth it have nothing to do with ancient Makedonia...

1. Not the same territory
2. They speak bulgarian (with some tweak in accent and words) not even close to greek
3. they're a different people, once and for all!

Although those differences, officially, they're still macedonians! so the word is used wrongly only depending on the context it is used!
I believe we have sme kind of misunderstanding here. When you say Makedonians, you mean FYROMians? Those lads living to the north of the Greek part Macedonia? With Skopje as their capital? I'm sorry, I though you were talking about my brethren, the Hellenes living in the region of Macedonia in Modern Greece. If that's tha case and you refer to FYROMians, I would appreciate it if you don't confuse them with the ancient Makedones. I am Greek, not FYROMian.

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

Maybe you may find it interesting; Ottomans especially converted Makedonian Children to form Janissaries. They were famous warriors as well they were strong and well built.(From a Turkish Historian but forgot the name)
But I must confess it is hard to imagine how sarissa carriers became capped janissaries.
Throughout the history all ethnical (original) Macedonian soldiers were famous warriors. So we should respect them.

[Maion Maroneios]

When the Turks came, Makedonia was long gone. But it's true that people in northern Greece are (still) taller, bigger in built and fairer (in terms of skin and hair/eye colour) than us southernerns :beam: I an an Heterogenes (half-blood) actually. My father is a typical example of how a Greek looked like even during Ancient times; short (about 1.69m even though that would be quite tall for that time), black curly hair, tanned skin, quite hairy (as per chest hair, back hair and facial) and a crooked nose. From all those, I only got the black hair (though mine is wavy like my mother's) and the general hairyness (chest hair, facial) :tongue: My mother is Dutch, with blue eyes and brown, wavy hair. Also, she got lighter skin than my father and is quite taller (round 1.75m). So I guess I got bits of both :tongue:

But, yet again, I'm getting off-topic it seems...

Maion

[AttilaDerHunn]

Safot Softim biQarthadast is probably the best civilized faction in EB because they have a powerful phalanx unit a strong assault infantry selection and powerful cavalry including elephants the only drawback is they cost too damn much and upkeep is too damn high

[Lysimachos]

Coolest are of course the Seleucids, 'cause they have the coolest units (including the coolest elephants) the coolest colour, the coolest kingdom overall and the coolest ambitions ~;p
For more reasons, read my AAR ~;)

PS: I don't want to see any more words about anything that happened after the EB-timeframe, not because it wasn't interesting, but because what you guys are doing is a reliable thread-closer...

[Atraphoenix]

Safot Softim biQarthadast is probably the best civilized faction in EB because they have a powerful phalanx unit a strong assault infantry selection and powerful cavalry including elephants the only drawback is they cost too damn much and upkeep is too damn high
African elephants does not deserve to recruit in comparison to Asian ones but both are resource eaters. What must we do, they were "Tiger" Tanks of the ancient times...

[AttilaDerHunn]

African elephants does not deserve to recruit in comparison to Asian ones but both are resource eaters. What must we do, they were "Tiger" Tanks of the ancient times...

I agree and supposedly Carthage recruited these from deeper into the African continent with mahouts of the nationality who tamed them I wonder how they could be recruited in Carthage and most of northern Africa.......probably came pre-ordered

[anubis88]

I agree and supposedly Carthage recruited these from deeper into the African continent with mahouts of the nationality who tamed them I wonder how they could be recruited in Carthage and most of northern Africa.......probably came pre-ordered

The forest elephants actually lived in north africa, not too far inland

The coolest factions in my opinion are AS, SSKH, and Pontos

[Vilkku92]

The coolest "civilized" faction in my opinion is Koinon Hellenon, beacuse THEY HAVE SPARTA!

[Apázlinemjó]

KH - BG, Spartan and of course Classical hoplites.
Romans - Reforms, awesome infantry units, versatile enemies.
Pontos - Great challenge without blitzing, versatile units, good position to make a Romani like empire.

I think they are the coolest ones, but if I have to pick one, then it's Pontos.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

But Makedonia is not a "Civilized" faction. They are a bunch of drunken and inbred barbarians from the North who cannot read :tongue:.

KH, forward!

[Gabeed]

I'd probably have to go with the Ptolemies.

[HunGeneral]

Now this is a hard question.

I think several civilised factions fall very close to the tittle "most coolest". My candidates would be:

Romani: everything which has been said about them sofar.

Arche Seleukeia: My all-time favourite:2thumbsup:. They have great units and later on they get even better ones after the reforms. They have one of the best goverment buildups of all (Type 1 goverments in Antiocheia, Seleukeia, Babylon pluss Pella, Alexandria and Baktra - simply amazing:2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:.) If they are not the true heirs of Megas Alexandros then I couldn't know who is (besides Makedon - further down). For me they are the ideal faction to reunite Alexanders empire. The only problem they have is that they face a very complicated situtation - all thoose would like to be someones to the north, the treacherous Baktrians to the east, thoose inbred "would like to be Pharaos" in Alexandria, the other Makedons and a divided Hellas to the west... Once all of them have been pacified and brought under the rule of the Basileus ton Basileon (King of Kings - Maion have I written this right?) , then all lands and sees from the Indus to the Atlantic can be aded to the "" (Empire/ Great Kingdom of all Hellenes - a little help please:sweatdrop:)* If the gods wish it so...

Baktria: Another of the Diadochi - nice units selection - they seem ideal to rule from the Indus to the shores of Asia Minor. Atlast I couldn't imagine them making a foothold in Hellas. Aigyptos itself seems rather strange under Baktrian-blue banners (not that it woud be impossible but I somehow find it strange). There early battles are however really a material for legends - AS stack spam to the west, Pahlav horsemen to the West-East, large Eleutheroi garisons in India and the worst of all - HORDES OF SAKA HORSEMEN to the north....:skull:

Karthadast: ("SafotSoftimbiQuarthadast"): well isolated at the beginning, can get good regionals from many places, has great factional units. - Is there anything else to say?

Makedonia: The true Makedones and lords of Hellas (after they conquer it from the pesky Koinon, and Epeiros). After that they can start wiping the Romani of the map and once thats done its time to reunite Alexanders empire. The only reason why they are behind AS in my list is that they lack mobile troops like Thorakitai. However they are very close to first class Thrakian troopers and there cavalry is aswell superb.

I would also add Epeiros but I don't have much experience with them - I sispect training Elephants in there Capital can be great and they have many units like Makedon (pluss Thorakitai) and lets not forget that Phyrros is the best starting Faction Leader and his son Ptolemais is an Heir with great Potential:yes:

[Duguntz]

Sorry guys for having talked out of subject earlier! Yeah, i love to learn and I learned full of new things in that ''out-of-timeframe'' conversation, Maion and Athaphoenix, are realy interesting guys!

So hmmm, Apart of Rome (for those who consider it civilized) nono, that was just a joke to tickle Rome fans! Well, appart from rome, all ''more'' civilized faction seems to be phalanx based... (yeah, I guess... why to change a tactics wich have worked for over 1000 years,...) anyway playing as AS or Ptolies, don't they have a bit the same recruitement pool?

The Romans seems very nice, but I have so much fun to crush their bones with my rudimentery sweboz and their clubs that the Barbarian in me shout ALLLLL BUT THEM!!!

[Nachtmeister]

Koinon Hellenon - although I must admit that this is rather related to the pre-EB timeframe
Sab'Yn - the most interesting (and challenging) campaign, sandwiched between AS and Ptolemaioi...

[MButcher]

I'd probably have to go with the Ptolemies.

Finally another Ptolemaioi fan!

The fan club gets lonely. :tumbleweed:

[Maion Maroneios]

Pah, damn sister-loving incestuous Ptolemaioi. Hellenes you might be, but that doesn't negate the fact that you stole the body of Megas Alexandros. Which reminds me that I have to capture that wonderful polis Alexandreia pretty soon.

Maion

[madbriton]

I definitely find the Romanii the most all-round faction. After that, probably KH or Baktria. I never like to start out with too large an empire, I much prefer to start small (hence not generally the big three Arches)

[miotas]

But isn't all phalanx-based Faction a bit the same? I mean, Mak., Epeiros, KH,

No way, they're all different.

My favourite is Baktria. Their play style is most similar to makedonia(who make it into my top 3 along with the romans) however they also have horsearchers, Indian elephants(those african elephants the carthies have aren't even worth mentioning:tongue3:) and super heavy kataphraktoi tanks, I'm fairly certain they're the heaviest in the game. They can also get thorakitai which I don't think the maks can get. Where the maks trump the baktrians is in their phalanx's, the maks can get far heavier units than the baktrian's who's heaviest phalanx is the pezhetairoi.

And the baktrians also have the easiest access to those outstanding indian units. In my opinion the indian guild infantry are the best infantry in the game, AP swords, very good stamina, fast moving and they have high attack and defence numbers. And the indian archers absolutely slaughter anything mounted.

The only downside is that you can't go further east, guess I'll just have to wait til asia to barbaron :2thumbsup:

[HunGeneral]

Pah, damn sister-loving incestuous Ptolemaioi. Hellenes you might be, but that doesn't negate the fact that you stole the body of Megas Alexandros. Which reminds me that I have to capture that wonderful polis Alexandreia pretty soon.

Amen to that!:2thumbsup:

[antisocialmunky]

No way, they're all different.

My favourite is Baktria. Their play style is most similar to makedonia(who make it into my top 3 along with the romans) however they also have horsearchers, Indian elephants(those african elephants the carthies have aren't even worth mentioning:tongue3:) and super heavy kataphraktoi tanks, I'm fairly certain they're the heaviest in the game. They can also get thorakitai which I don't think the maks can get. Where the maks trump the baktrians is in their phalanx's, the maks can get far heavier units than the baktrian's who's heaviest phalanx is the pezhetairoi.

And the baktrians also have the easiest access to those outstanding indian units. In my opinion the indian guild infantry are the best infantry in the game, AP swords, very good stamina, fast moving and they have high attack and defence numbers. And the indian archers absolutely slaughter anything mounted.

The only downside is that you can't go further east, guess I'll just have to wait til asia to barbaron :2thumbsup:

Yeah, pretty much the heaviest friggen cavalry unit in the game. And yeah, guild infantry is pretty much the best shock infantry in the game except maybe the casse sword masters.

Baktria is probably the most powerful faction in the game. Best of India and Hellas.



I do like KH and Rome though.

[Gabeed]

Pah, damn sister-loving incestuous Ptolemaioi. Hellenes you might be, but that doesn't negate the fact that you stole the body of Megas Alexandros. Which reminds me that I have to capture that wonderful polis Alexandreia pretty soon.

Maion

Pshhh. You Makedonians don't have the cunning to attack Alexandria and steal Megas Alexandros back. If you were to ever to attempt such a thing, you'd probably accidentally land at Kyrene and bash your heads against its walls for a couple decades. :egypt:

[MButcher]

Pah, damn sister-loving incestuous Ptolemaioi. Hellenes you might be, but that doesn't negate the fact that you stole the body of Megas Alexandros.

Maion

As per his wishes I'm sure. Who would want to be buried in Makedonia after seeing the wonders of Aigyptos? :egypt:

[aelflune]

I like Epeiros. They can train some decent phalanxes and cavalry, being essentially Hellene, and have access to Indian elephants while being in Europe. Heck, they even start with a group of those beasts outside Pella, which is an early game money maker. They also start with a foothold in Italy that, while difficult to maintain, can pay off very well. They can crush the Romani quickly and can feel free to do so because they don't need MoT. Get that max level MIC in Ambrakia and your early game troubles would end quickly :2thumbsup:

Not to mention they start with Pyrrhos. Pity he's already quite old. He has a pretty good and martial bloodline to make up for it in my experience, though.

[the man with no name]

Hellenes? Romans? Civilized? Hardly. There are only 2 civilised cultures. (both of them are cool 2)
1.The Gallic culture(we invented soap!)
2.The Punic culture


The greeks were barbaroi as they call us fine gauls. The romans called us Barbarians. What hypocrites(sp?):hmg: They aren't even real men. TheY surrender under Heavy attack whereas we gauls fight 2 the death.

[Cyclops]

I used to be a mak fan but I think I OD'd and I prefer Epeirotes. Ptollies and AS are too....big. And rich. I want them to fall.

Romans have their attractions but there's a demented Irish anti-authoritarian in my soul that wants to see the capitol burn...again.

I certainly love the Pontians and Armenians, I have friends I imagine are descended from peoples in those areas and there's something noble in the little guy standing up to the massive empires.

I like KH for their hard fighting FM BG's (but not so much the Spartiates, they're dramatic and everything but something in me suspects they were just a bunch of Nazis).

The sandy factions have unique flavours, more distinct than even my beloved Pontians: anyone with Elephants is fun to play, so I'll have to do so properly soon (my one serious Saba campaign crashed fatally and I can't bring myself to play the cash soaked Karthis seriously).

Which brings me to my favourite of all:


...My favourite is Baktria. ...

Ditto. Must be an Aussie thing.

Actually the reason I like them so much probably goes back to the Bartix thing...

[Cute Wolf]

1. Koinon Hellenon, cool through gameplay. They have Spartans..... and (Darn to the March of Time).... You'll spend your time (forcibly) learning efficient flanking and ambushing tactics, to negate the effect of those Makedonian Sarissae..... Welll.... in my opinion, they're the most challenging civilized factions ever.... (From KH campaigns I learn how to decimate a phalanx full stack using only sphendonetai and assorted type of hoplitai!!!:laugh4:)

2. Bartix..... cool through graphics. Their tiger mascot is sooo cuuuutteeeeeeee.......:2thumbsup: , not only that... their indo-greek units are cool... too bad, they didn't have acess for Hoplitai Hellenikon (Coolest unit ever)... but Saka Rauka isn't civilized faction...

[miotas]

Bartix..... cool through graphics. Their tiger mascot is sooo cuuuutteeeeeeee.......:2thumbsup:

THIS IS BARTIX!!!!!!!!!

LOL. Did you say that on purpose cute wolf?

And it's a lion not a tiger get it right please :thumbsdown:
:clown:

[Maion Maroneios]

we invented soap!
*Sigh* There e go again with the damn soap story...

Maion

[Cute Wolf]

Soap? I think this was better...
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=116958

[fleaza]

by civilised i assume you mean the hellens + romans.

the coolest is the maks. you start out in a desperate situation with the epeirotes and koinon hellnon at your backs. you have no population and little money. later on you have heavy infantry and one of the best cavalry in the game. and you start out in the center of the world. greece.

[Cute Wolf]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/faction_banner_04bak.jpg
Is that a lion? Lion has more hair...... This was a cute Tiger Oversized cat!!!... Cool:laugh4:

[Mediterraneo]

The one and only civilized faction are the sons of Seleucos.
The empire will be reunited soon!
(Which empire? Whaddayoumean which empire?)

No, seriously, i like it when in the first turns you have to rush to (aggressively) defend all of your overstreched boundaries and trying to stabilize the situation in a region or two.
Varied enemies, varied regional troops (from galatians, to the caucasians, to the arab lights, to the horse archers and persian lancrs-spearmen...oh, the elephants i forgot!) and choices that count in the first turns: in comparation, the roman economy is so strong that in a few turns you find yourself without room to spend your money in, and Italy has good natural frontiers too. The thing you do not have to play with at the start is the naval game, but that is a thing that the AI doesn't do well, so (to me) it is not such a problem...
And i even like to fight with the low grade phalanxes, too!

[Yarema]

Sorry fpr offtoping but the conversation between Maion and Atraphoenix is so cool that i can't resist
:Gc 2thumbsup:
Maion, the modern Macedonians have a right to have a name too even if they have nothing to do with real Macedonians :Gc Clown:
One macedonian described the situation of his people this way: "the Serbs say that we are Serbs, the Bulgarians say we are Bulgarians, and the Greeks say that we don't exist at all" hehehe.

I will say once again that i know that the modern Macs are not real Macs, but they can't be called FYROMians, right? Besides, even modern Greeks have perhaps more Slavic and Albanian DNA than Greek DNA. The slavic invasions and colonisation reeached deep into the Peloponessus, and Albanian language even temporarily dominated some Greek islands! Of course they were later assimilated since the Greek culture was far stronger and more developped than their own, and they became 100% patriotic Greeks. Your island, Maion, may be one of the very few places of Greece which was never reached by "foreign" settlers.

As for myself, I am Polish and proud and i realise that there is no such thing as "pure Polish DNA", in fact waccording to recent studies our DNA is one of the most mixed in europe, mostly due to the influx f foreign settlets who founded new cities or served as soldiers/mercenaries in 16th century. For example, up to 2% of Polish people are of Scottish origin - was VERY surpised when i found out about that. Here are some examples of 100% Polish names which are of scottish origin:
Makłowicz - MacLane
Gordonowicz - Gordon
Kabrun - Cockburn
Czamer - Chalmers
Dziaksen - Jackson
Szynkler - Sinclair
Machlejd - MacLeod
and many more! :))

[anubis88]

I think that maion refered to them as FYROMians, just so there wouldn't be any confusion, not because he really wanted to speak about them as the FYROMians.

[Atraphoenix]

AS is the strongest hellenic faction I love them but it is very easy there is no challenge.
So that is why I always choose small factions that are neighboors of her.

[satalexton]

still, they ate each other and dwelled in swamps. They do have decent archers and some wield AP axes, I'll give them that. They're only half as bad as the Romaioi, but still filthy barbaroi nonetheless.

[Atraphoenix]

Who can claim after such a long centuries of invasions, migrations, wars.... he/she is a pure ....ian.
Iran has less than % 20 Turkey around 20-25 according to last DNA searches.

just one example : Britannia : celts, romans, anglosaxons, vikings, normans, etc.
So who is the real english.
nearly %80-90 of world population should be heterogenous.
My grandma is Turkish but she speaks better georgian than me :laugh4:

[miotas]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/faction_banner_04bak.jpg
Is that a lion? Lion has more hair...... This was a cute Tiger Oversized cat!!!... Cool:laugh4:

Lioness maybe? Which would make sense since the lionesses are the ferocious hunters, but what about the spots? I would think it was a leopard, but the lions are mentioned a few times in EB.



Which brings me to my favourite of all:



Ditto. Must be an Aussie thing.


Maybe its cause they're a small country off in the middle of no-where...
:laugh4:

[Atraphoenix]

What not a bengal tiger ? it may be...

[Cute Wolf]

Whew... at least I got a new signature... This was oversized, and cute (see Its face?:clown:) CAT!

[Maion Maroneios]

Sorry fpr offtoping but the conversation between Maion and Atraphoenix is so cool that i can't resist
:Gc 2thumbsup:
Maion, the modern Macedonians have a right to have a name too even if they have nothing to do with real Macedonians :Gc Clown:
One macedonian described the situation of his people this way: "the Serbs say that we are Serbs, the Bulgarians say we are Bulgarians, and the Greeks say that we don't exist at all" hehehe.
If you mean FYROMians, yes they have a right. But why us? I mean, they are closer to Serbians/Bulgarians, so why us in God's name? Modern Macedonians are Greeks (Hellenes, to be more precise since I don't like "Greek" a lot as a word), FYROMians are Slavs. Or Slaboi, Hellenized :tongue: Don't confuse those two please. And unless anyone brings me solid evidence of any FYROMian being even 0.1% Makedon (as during Alexandros' time), then and only then I'll shut my mouth. Plus I'm going to commit suicide, but that's another matter whatsoever :2thumbsup:

Which "Macedonian" said that? If you mean (yet again) a FYROMian, I have absolutely no interest in what a propagandized, brainwashed person said. I have nothing against them, I actually feel sorry for them lately. And we don't say FYROMians don't exist at all, just that they have absolutely nothing to do with the Makedones of the time of Megas Alexandros.


I will say once again that i know that the modern Macs are not real Macs, but they can't be called FYROMians, right? Besides, even modern Greeks have perhaps more Slavic and Albanian DNA than Greek DNA. The slavic invasions and colonisation reeached deep into the Peloponessus, and Albanian language even temporarily dominated some Greek islands! Of course they were later assimilated since the Greek culture was far stronger and more developped than their own, and they became 100% patriotic Greeks. Your island, Maion, may be one of the very few places of Greece which was never reached by "foreign" settlers.

As for myself, I am Polish and proud and i realise that there is no such thing as "pure Polish DNA", in fact waccording to recent studies our DNA is one of the most mixed in europe, mostly due to the influx f foreign settlets who founded new cities or served as soldiers/mercenaries in 16th century. For example, up to 2% of Polish people are of Scottish origin - was VERY surpised when i found out about that. Here are some examples of 100% Polish names which are of scottish origin:
Makłowicz - MacLane
Gordonowicz - Gordon
Kabrun - Cockburn
Czamer - Chalmers
Dziaksen - Jackson
Szynkler - Sinclair
Machlejd - MacLeod
and many more! :))
I beg to differ from your oppinion. During times of Slavic colonisation, due to the vast numbers that were slowly dominating the mainland, the Autokrator of the Basileia Romaion (Byzantine Empire) moved peoples from mainland Hellas to Anatolia and vice versa. Again, please don't refer to FYROmians as Macedonians please.

There's another thing (last, I promise) I want to say. You people confuse DNA identity with spirit and taperament. Greek in he who speaks Greek and lives as one, not he who has Greek parents. Understand that well, for it is the Greek spirit that has remained even until today. Not the DNA, that has long since changed considerably (even though there are still similarities with ancient times). If someone does not use the Greek alphabet and has a Greek way of thinking and education, I do not consider him Greek, nor will I ever in my life.

Maion

[Duguntz]

Hey hey hey guys, I started the out-of-bound topic by an unstoppable thirst to learn more, but then I learned that it was possible to close that thread because of out-of-timeframe subject, and that's why I quited that discussion with Maion and Atraphonix. Please guys, I don't want my thread to be closed! I mentioned Makedonians as FYROman becausde they call themselves as Macedonians, that in Bulgaria and Serbia they call them macedonians ALSO. And Maion, don't commit suicide (With the percentage of mixed blood that everybody have, probably even you have a small amount of FYRO blood,, so suicide would be pointless!!!!) We'll speak about those modern macedonians in private messages.

as for the BATRIX banner, it's really an over-sized cat!!! :laugh4: Hey, could someone help me on how to get a benner?

[satalexton]

Truth and Hope in Fatherland!
Death to every Barbaroi!
Hoist your Xiphos high into the clouds!
ALL HAIL MAKEDONIA!!!

Chill maion, =] now just send a full stack straight up all the way to the baltic sea...and enslave everything there and between...you'll feel a good deal better....

THEN, u do the same to the sweboz, educate the keltoi (and kill those that don't), then WHEEL BACK TO DESTROY BARBAROPOLIS =]

Our basileus stand astride this world,
He'll vanquish every barbaroi!
Hoist your xiphos to the clouds!
ALL HAIL MAKEDONIA!!!

[Atraphoenix]

easy men online forums are not a place of serious discussions.
we are killing topic. :oops:

[Duguntz]

HA HA HA! All heil to makedomia? COME AND GET US YOU FOOL! My Sweboz wait you in their dark forests and will strike you like the hammer on the nail if you dare tremple our soil! By Deiwos, come, with your so-called warriors (so proud are you, so couragous are you, fighting away, 21 foots away, exactly, hiding behind the wall of your sarissas) We will send you to your false gods while you'll be crying upon your sarrisas stuck in the woods, and so close will we be, yet unseen in the night, you will feel the hot pain of the sword and hear the crack of your bones under our bludgeons, YES, COME FAST, SONS OF ALEXANDER, WE WAIT YOU!!!

[Gabeed]

The Sons of Alexander won't be coming there anytime soon, because Germania sucks. :beam:

[Atraphoenix]

HA HA HA! All heil to makedomia? COME AND GET US YOU FOOL! My Sweboz wait you in their dark forests and will strike you like the hammer on the nail if you dare tremple our soil! By Deiwos, come, with your so-called warriors (so proud are you, so couragous are you, fighting away, 21 foots away, exactly, hiding behind the wall of your sarissas) We will send you to your false gods while you'll be crying upon your sarrisas stuck in the woods, and so close will we be, yet unseen in the night, you will feel the hot pain of the sword and hear the crack of your bones under our bludgeons, YES, COME FAST, SONS OF ALEXANDER, WE WAIT YOU!!!
Man are you insane? sweboz has no chance against any hellenic factions, you can only tickle Pezotarioi with clubmen :laugh4:
"Scots: antidote to english
gasatae : antidote to phalanx
peltastai: antidote to elephants
sweboz: ? any idea :no: "
sorry pal but they are one of the weakest factions in EB.

I am sure you have no place to run when you see these guys :
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/makedonia/mak_agrianiai_pellek.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/makedonia/mak_thraikioi_rhomphaia.gif

[Maion Maroneios]

Oh, you know what you're forcing me to do? I'm going to launch a Germanian campaign in my Makedonian campaign, then post a nice little AAR with all those beautiful pictures of barbaroi-killing and sacking of Germanoi villages.

Maion

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Ha ha! The western dogs think so highly of themselves, even to the point where they must kill each other to prove it, and yet none of them compare to the glory of Parthia! The noble horsemen of the east will sack all of your cities, yes, even the Sweboz villages in those strange lands of the north!

And soap and hellenic bathing are nothing compared to a good steam bath!

[Maion Maroneios]

Ha ha! The western dogs think so highly of themselves, even to the point where they must kill each other to prove it, and yet none of them compare to the glory of Parthia! The noble horsemen of the east will sack all of your cities, yes, even the Sweboz villages in those strange lands of the north!

And soap and hellenic bathing are nothing compared to a good steam bath!
OK, OK don't tell me now that nomadic, filthy, smelling, unwashed, bow-loving, uncivilized, uneducated, barbaric Parthoi invented steam baths before the Hellenes did!

Maion

[Duguntz]

i've tickeled people we can see! You should have see how just today I crushed a phalanx army with my brave juguntis xatiska (yes, the young one!) untrained! we may not have as plenty of iron as you (anyway, what proud warrior hide behind an armour?) and our horses aren't as big as yours, but come, and you will know winter, you will know the cold bite of your bronze and iron armour and while your swords will be stuck because of the frost, while you will try to run for your far away home, then only you will realize there's no exit, and you will repent while our warrior will finish off the remnent of your routing armies!

Maion, good idea, I'll also start to campain against Makedonia, in my sweboz campain, and I'll send you the suffering of all Hellenes!

[Duguntz]

[QUOTE=Atraphoenix;2241394]Man are you insane? sweboz has no chance against any hellenic factions, you can only tickle Pezotarioi with clubmen :laugh4:
"Scots: antidote to english
gasatae : antidote to phalanx
peltastai: antidote to elephants
sweboz: ? any idea :no: "
sorry pal but they are one of the weakest factions in EB.

Sweboz : antidote to everything! like every other factions, we must just just learn how to use them!

[Maion Maroneios]

swords will be stuck because of the frost
This made me laugh! I assume you liked Gladiator, didn't you? :clown:

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

"A captain got lost during the campaign of saroumatae.
Leutenant : Captain, are we lost?
Captain: How dare you say I am incapable of finding the road!
L: I have bad new sir, one of shivatirs saw black ghost last day?
C: black ghost?
L: Yes, sir. he said he thought we are in Nubia.
C: Africa is mostly desert this place is full of woods and freezing.

------

L: Sir, we have more black ghost around what must we do?
C: prepare my horse, let the cataphracts alarmed.
L: yes sir!

-----

C: What happened, why all shivatirs and cataphracts are laughing.
L: The leader of reconnaissance troop returned.
c: So?
L: He said "Black ghosts have fallen like butterflies when they started to shooting arrows.
C: So it must have been a good shooting practice for them.
L: Exactly sir, what made me die laughing one of the black ghost tried to catch one of the shivatirs.
C: they must have eaten too many different unusual plants like gasatae.
L: yes sir, what shall we do know?
C: Lets get back to the bridge of Olbia, we should have gone east not west.
L: as you command, sir.

-----

C(talks to himself): When I got back, what shall I say to the colonel. My men made some shooting practice on black ghosts. he will behead me immediately.what must I do..... Oh good lord Mithras, why do not you help me....

[Duguntz]

:laugh4:, I must admit that I tought about it just after posting, but no, that wasn't the inspiration! It did happened often, it's an obvois physical fact (and more often than we think!) If you're really interested, The inspiration for the frost thing is my country! I'm from Quebec and we have -30 and -40 for more than 3 month...

[Maion Maroneios]

Quebec, eh? Met a couple of girls from there last summer :yes: Told me you lads drink even more than we do!

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

You must have eaten too many different unusual plants like gasatae.


_________
Atra

[Duguntz]

Another joke form Atraphonix, althouth the Sweboz in me shouts take his head and put it on a stake, i must admit it was funny... Althought fantasist... nothing beat sweboz :smash:

[Atraphoenix]

For sweboz the matter that cares is 3:
1: quantity
2: Shock
3:Offence is best defence!
If you wait for romani gets marians you will face endless flow of mule headed soldiers...
plus EB Team scripted AI Recrutiment that means AI never loses man power!
EB Team gave the the secret technology RTW AI that it may clone their soldiers...:wall:
AI(ADI-artificial doubted Inteligence) : we lost 5000 legion,
create_unit_mule_headed soldiers 10000
done.
Biological form went crazy.
done.
he hits head to the monitor.
done.

____
end_monitor

;end script.... :laugh4:

[Nachtmeister]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/faction_banner_04bak.jpg
Is that a lion? Lion has more hair...... This was a cute Tiger Oversized cat!!!... Cool:laugh4:

Leopard or panther or whatever species of that type of cat is native to central Asia - it has SPOTS, not stripes. And both lions and tigers are far more massive.
(No, not all panthers are black; there are those with patterns just like the one illustrated)

Meoww.

Just to bump the issue - (back on topic) Saba!!
The challenge of dealing with both AS and Ptolemaioi at the same time (even if it involves keeping one of them friendly) is huge fun. Their background is huge fun, too. Love the feel of playing Saba. They have a unique feel to them.

[HunGeneral]

"A captain got lost during the campaign of saroumatae.
Leutenant : Captain, are we lost?
Captain: How dare you say I am incapable of finding the road!
L: I have bad new sir, one of shivatirs saw black ghost last day?
C: black ghost?
L: Yes, sir. he said he thought we are in Nubia.
C: Africa is mostly desert this place is full of woods and freezing.

------

L: Sir, we have more black ghost around what must we do?
C: prepare my horse, let the cataphracts alarmed.
L: yes sir!

-----

C: What happened, why all shivatirs and cataphracts are laughing.
L: The leader of reconnaissance troop returned.
c: So?
L: He said "Black ghosts have fallen like butterflies when they started to shooting arrows.
C: So it must have been a good shooting practice for them.
L: Exactly sir, what made me die laughing one of the black ghost tried to catch one of the shivatirs.
C: they must have eaten too many different unusual plants like gasatae.
L: yes sir, what shall we do know?
C: Lets get back to the bridge of Olbia, we should have gone east not west.
L: as you command, sir.


Nice Joke. I like that one - keeps me laughing since then.

I must admit I really love a good shooting practice...

[Vilkku92]

Duguntz, try to hold the civilized people at bay as long as you can! I'll gather as many baltic warriors as I can and come help you as soon as possible. Frontiersmen should teach those horsemen some respect while axemen join the headbashing. HAKKAA PÄÄLLE!

[Atraphoenix]

Thanks mate:egypt: but nothing to compare this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62656

[Duguntz]

Duguntz, try to hold the civilized people at bay as long as you can! I'll gather as many baltic warriors as I can and come help you as soon as possible. Frontiersmen should teach those horsemen some respect while axemen join the headbashing. HAKKAA PÄÄLLE!

Now that's what I call good talking and common sense! I'll keep every single one of them at bay and will welcome your axemen and prous frontiermen in the tent of their chiefs after our many victories over the so-called civilized people! lets show them the uselessness of their perfumes against our stout spears, deadly axes, and natural fearlessness!!! :smash: :smash: :smash:

[Duguntz]

For sweboz the matter that cares is 3:
1: quantity
2: Shock
3:Offence is best defence!
If you wait for romani gets marians you will face endless flow of mule headed soldiers...
plus EB Team scripted AI Recrutiment that means AI never loses man power!
EB Team gave the the secret technology RTW AI that it may clone their soldiers...:wall:
AI(ADI-artificial doubted Inteligence) : we lost 5000 legion,
create_unit_mule_headed soldiers 10000
done.
Biological form went crazy.
done.
he hits head to the monitor.
done.

____
end_monitor

;end script.... :laugh4:

- He beated the 10 000 clones
-prepare emergency procedure
-CTD in 3... 2... 1...

-CTD. Done.

[Mediterraneo]

Nice thread about the civilized organized by a sweboz
Nice thread about the civilized hijacked by a sweboz
Nice thread about whatever closed by somebody

Damnation to all of the barbarians, i'll not be able to get them know the Arche's revenge because all of my charachters would die of old age before getting to their villages!

[Duguntz]

Mediterraneo, i challenge you to start campaining against sweboz in your current campain, but that, of corse, would be suicide... well, you can try! WE WAIT YOU...

[Cyclops]

Saba do have the most distinct flavour of all. The campaign up the Nile is a hard row to hoe and rewarding when you get to the lighthouse.

FWIW the cat on the Bartix banner is a leopard, and a drunk leopard at that.

You know, the one that Dionysus rode from India to Hellas. Not that he remembers doing it, he was pissed too.

I mean, who hasn't done that? Got drunk and ended up 3,000 miles away with cat hair all over your backside. In Australia we call it "catching the beer leopard".

[Nachtmeister]

Saba do have the most distinct flavour of all. The campaign up the Nile is a hard row to hoe and rewarding when you get to the lighthouse.

FWIW the cat on the Bartix banner is a leopard, and a drunk leopard at that.

You know, the one that Dionysus rode from India to Hellas. Not that he remembers doing it, he was pissed too.

I mean, who hasn't done that? Got drunk and ended up 3,000 miles away with cat hair all over your backside. In Australia we call it "catching the beer leopard".


ROFL!! :laugh4:
Here's a balloon for you :balloon2:
Made my day, saved my mood from basement-level after having been severely annoyed by someone's oblivious regard for FAQs.

[V.T. Marvin]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/faction_banner_04bak.jpg
To the question of what is the cat-like animal on Baktrian emblem, I hope I can provide a conclusive answer: it is the biological species Panthera pardus, i.e. leopard, which was often referred in the context of Dionysus, who was rendered in Alexandrian times as mythical predecessor of Alexander himself in his conquest of India.

From the linguistic perspective it is important to note, that nomenclature of big cats is sometimes confusing.
1.- Both Greeks and Indians appear to have difficulty of distinquishing between tigers and leopards. In Western literature we often hear that tiger (tigris - in greek alphabet) has spots, and not stripes, though real striped tigers were sometimes depicted in works of art. In the old Indian language (OIA) the word sardula signified bot tiger and leopard, whereas vyaghra = tiger and dvipin = leopard.

2.- Original Greek name for leopard was, according to Jennison*, pardalis (or abbreviated form pardos). This word entered Latin as pardus. The now common name, leopardos or leontopardos, was explained by Pliny as a hybrid born of adulterous relationship between a leopard (pardalis) and lionness. According to Jennison it seems to be a maneless lion.

3.- The word panther, Latin panthera, refers in early sources to a small animal having characteristic spots, which seems to mean genet (Genetta genetta). In later souces, however, the word was also used for cheetah and leopard.

The information is taken from Klaus Karttunen, India and Hellenistic World, Helsinki 1997, pp. 170-174.
I recommend this book whole-heartedly, because it is based both on Classical and Indian sources, and while the basic approach is linquistical, numismatic, epigraphic and archeological evidence is not omitted either. It contains vast bibliography and a huge ammount of references so it can be conveniently used as a starting point for a more detailed study. :2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

-----------------------
*Jennison George, Animals for show and pleasure in Ancient Rome, Manchester 1937.

[satalexton]

No silly, thats the swangdoodle of Bartix. It's a sacre animal that breaths acid from it's nose and shits gold bricks exactly 5 hours after it's eaten it's fill of barbaroi.

[Zett]

Maks and the other hellenic factions are great, but my favourite will always be Koinon Hellenon. Of course with Athenai as Capital and Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos as faction Leader (May Areus Agiados Lakedaimios rest in peace on Crete, his bravery as he took Kydonia only with his Royal guard will never be forget.)

Why? Which factiuon have a similare large unit roster? You can stick to an old-fashioned Hoplite army with Hoplitai Haploi, Ekdromoi Hoplitai, Hoplitai, Epilketoi Hoplitai and Spartiatai Hoplitai or you can deploy a more flexible Army out of Iphikrates Hoplitai, Thureophoroi, Thorakitai and Thorakitai Hoplitai or you can even set up a successor like army with Koinon Hellenon Phalangitai as your core and the various Hoplitetypes as flankprotectors and Hippeis Xystophoroi as your 'hammer'.

And the KH has one of the biggest cavalry roster. Even bigger then the Maks. You can recruit Hippakontistai, Hippeis, Prodromoi, Hetairoi Aspidophoroi, Lonchophoroi Hippeis and even Hippeis Thessalikoi, like the Maks. Ok, you have no super heavy cavalry like Hetairoi, but you have Hippeis Xystophoroi which you can recruit in a level 3 MIC all over the map, from Baktra to Syrakousai, from Alexandria to Pantikapaion. Hetairoi are for maks only availabel in Pella and Demetrias. And don't forget Hippeis Tarantinoi!

But the most fun with KH is, if you deploy several of these completly different armys in one battle. An old-fashioned Hoplite army from Massalia with Massaliotai Hoplitai which aids a new-fashioned succcessor Army from Taras with KH Phalangitai, Thorakitai Hoplitai, Hippeis Tarantinoi and Hippeis Xystophoroi.

And last but not least, you can recruit nearly every kind of havey Archers as KH: Kretikoi Toxotai, Thureopherontes Toxotai and Toxotai Syriakoi.

Did I forget something, I guess so, KH is just to awesome to put it's graetness into words. Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

[Macilrille]

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.


The irony of this, LOL.

Not that you want to burn Rome, but that you want to do so in Latin while lauding the Greeks.


Guess that goes to show which faction was historically the greatest.

I happen to prefer that faction as well, for all the reasons mentioned, and because I happen to think Rome is the greatest historically.

For historical reasons I like Macedonia as well, and find Bactria intriguing for historical and game reasons.

[Atraphoenix]

- He beated the 10 000 clones
-prepare emergency procedure
-CTD in 3... 2... 1...

-CTD. Done.
Yep, I had forgotten it :laugh4::wall:

[Zett]

The irony of this, LOL.

Not that you want to burn Rome, but that you want to do so in Latin while lauding the Greeks.


1. You have to write it in Latin, so that these poor barbaroi can understand what you are saying.

2. It's always good to understand you enemies. Understanding is the first step on the road to completly annihilate your enemy.

3. Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam!

And don't get me wrong, there are a few Romani that I respect, such as Seneca. That's why he was a Stoic and died as one. And yes, Stoa was invented by Zenon, a greek philosopher. Sometimes Romani copy the right things. But unfortunately only sometimes...:clown:

[Conqueror]

I've lost my heart to the Baktrioi and their gorgeous panther-helmed bodyguards. They are not the coolest civilized faction, nay - they are the coolest faction, period. :2thumbsup:

That said, let it also be known that honourable second place could fall to no other than the mighty Qarthadastim. May the name HANNIBAL never be forgotten!

[Phalanx300]

Sparta!!!

Sound the Paen and march forward with unseen precision, the Spartan Phalanx will beat all! :2thumbsup:

And after that Germanic power! :clown:

[miotas]

I've lost my heart to the Baktrioi and their gorgeous panther-helmed bodyguards. They are not the coolest civilized faction, nay - they are the coolest faction, period. :2thumbsup:

That said, let it also be known that honourable second place could fall to no other than the mighty Qarthadastim. May the name HANNIBAL never be forgotten!

They are actually roaring lion face masks, which is why I thought the banner was a lion. But they truly are stunning. Have you gotten any of the indo-hellenic units yet? I belive this is where Baktria gets alot of its appeal. The Peltasti Indohellenikoi, the Hoplitai Indohellenikoi, and the Indohellenikoi Eugeneis are incredibly effective fighters and their units look amazing.

You should check out my AAR, these units will be showing up in the next couple of chapters.

[Duguntz]

phalanx300 you're a real man! Finally another Sweboz fan (and spartans kick asses as well!) your banner's very nice!

[Phalanx300]

phalanx300 you're a real man! Finally another Sweboz fan (and spartans kick asses as well!) your banner's very nice!

Yes the Sweboz own :2thumbsup:. I'm a fan of them since I'm basicly a modern Germanic seeing as I'm Dutch. Nice to know your ancestors were brutal killing machines. :2thumbsup:

[J.R.M]

Well i have completed the Carthies campaign, however im playing now as KH and i must say.... They OWN!!, i love those many hoplites (Classical Hoplites, i salute you) :2thumbsup:
BTW.... Sweboz owns too, especially when i see club infantry (i forgot the name) kicking those roman @sses in their little shiny armor, theres no price to that.

[Duguntz]

Well i have completed the Carthies campaign, however im playing now as KH and i must say.... They OWN!!, i love those many hoplites (Classical Hoplites, i salute you) :2thumbsup:
BTW.... Sweboz owns too, especially when i see club infantry (i forgot the name) kicking those roman @sses in their little shiny armor, theres no price to that.

AMEN! :2thumbsup:

And phalanx300, I completly agree with you, although I live in Quebec, my family comes directly from Gauls, ininterupted blood line! So my ancestors also were finely built killing machines! (who knows, maybe Gaesates!)

[HunGeneral]

Thanks mate:egypt: but nothing to compare this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62656

OH YEAH - now that was a great AAR.

Too bad there are so few good nomadic ones around... :embarassed:. Would anyone be interrested in a Saka AAR this summer?

[Mediterraneo]

Mediterraneo, i challenge you to start campaining against sweboz in your current campain, but that, of corse, would be suicide... well, you can try! WE WAIT YOU...

A single horseman come galloping from the west along the long, ancient road that hundreds of messengers have runned before him....

Horseman - Stratego, an urgent message! We have been challenged! An obscure tribe of the far west wants to make war with us!
Layed Down And Being Massaged Stratego - I see. What's their name? Lakotas? Cheyennes?
H - No, my lord, this are the terrible Sweboz!
LDABMS - Listen, guy, i am busy, i am at war with the Ptolomies, I'm facing revolts (the baktrian and partian provinces refuse to pay their tributes) I'm conducting raids against Atropatene and the Mauryans, the Makedons betrayed our alliance and ended up fighting both against and side by side the other rebels of the Achean League against us. There are small local tyrants that are messing the things up in Armenia and Ponto... And you are here telling me that this Sweboz want to invade us? Maybe they could get us off guard... How many hours of advantage do you have over them?
H - Ehm, no sir, they are not coming. They sent a message to...The thing is, they want us to go there.
LDABMS - Where is that there?
H - Ok, do you know Asia Minor?
LDABMS - Yes
H - Ok, cross it, cross the Bosphorus, cross Makedonia, go northwards through Epirus
LDABMS - Oh, i forgot, we are again at war with them, too...
H - Anyway, enter those kelt territories bordering with that italian people that defeated Pyrrus
LDABMS - Romans. Barbarians, but good people, I always found Pyrrus a bit arrogant for my tastes. I bet the gods gave them a day of fortune against him. Did this Sweboz invade their lands?
H - Ehm... no sir, they didn't. It's just that when you get there, you have to cross the highest mountains in the world
LDABMS - We have the highest mountains in the world in our eastern provinces, guy...
H - Yes sir, but I'm from your western ones and so i feel eurocentric
LDABMS - And crossing those mountains we can get to these Sweboz, more arrogants than that epirote?
H - Ehm, no sir, but almost... just a few thousands of stadiums from there.
LDABMS - And you seriously want me to leave this palace and go there?
H - Ehm, I'm just a messenger, sir...
LDABMS - Ok, i don't know why but i feel the urge of avenging the insult to our honour. I accept the challenge! Prepare my horses and armour!

Several years later...
A single horseman come galloping from the south along the long road the army of the king left clearly marked...

Horseman - My lord!
Very Old And Dwarfed Stratego Under Heavy Rain- Speak louder that i cannot hear you son....
H - MY LORD, YOU HAVE TO STOP YOUR ARMY!
VOADSUHR - Oh, why, son? Just now that i finally got to the lands of the much renowed and much hated sweden?
H - Do you mean ....ehm, DO YOU MEAN SWEBOZ, SIR?
VOADSUHR - And why are you cryng that loud son? Yes, sweden, sweboz, whatever. It was a long journey, it costed a lot to get here, i survived several CTD, and my doctor says that one more will be enough for my old heart...
H - I do not know the actual reasons, sir, but your bis-bis nephew, the actual regent in you name in Antioch (that was receiving a nice massage while giving me this message, but that's another story) ordered me to report to you these exact words: my lord, yours is the glory STOP you conquered the required number of cities STOP the victory conditions are fulfilled STOP you won the game STOP.
VOADSUHR - Oh, my life...

The poor, old man, crushed under the weight of its armour (and years). A couple of historians tryed to justify his death with his hubris: not happy with being the ruler the empire of Alexander, he attempted to boldly go where no (civilized) man has gone before, and the gods smited him for that...

[Duguntz]

LOOOOL!!! :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: That was a good one! wich reminded me that in my current sweboz campain, i have two cities more to conquer all Italy, two cities to unite all Gauls, of corse I have All germania till the lil island (wich I got damn late!) I even conquered rome in 236 BC (quiet early for Sweboz) and I was wondering why I didn't won yet... I only miss Guajam Basternoz... and one more cities... But i'd be pissed to finish my campain before 200 BC! all this, with the script on, and without any refortm that give me the heavy infantry of the Sweboz :2thumbsup:

Haaaaa, Clubmen... Cutting their way threw roman armours and Celts Sulduros, with A pillar of Deiwoz in many cities, all with Field game... so i train Units with basicly 4 chevrons and +3 moral everywhere... and 5 chevron and armour upgrade in all roman cities (where they prepared me full of blacksmith, because myself, I'm lazy to built them!!!)

[Mediterraneo]

Ouch, all of those chevrons look scary...
And i felt i was rushing it with my games... You seem a lot faster than me! (And than me when i try to go fast!)
I can just hope to be able to field just enough pantodapoi phalangitai to hold them until they tire themselves to the ground...
But they'll come as the EB team made them, cause that thing of morale-experience building costs me money I end up spending in mines and troops...
And i'm glad you liked the last one...
Bye!

[Macilrille]

Never blitz, blitzing is boring and everyone can do it, for challenge let your enemies grow strong. Face the Cohors reformata, the Elite Phalangati, the ...

Back on topic.

Roma Vitrix!!!

Though I repeat myself I am in fact trying to get the thread back on its spurious topic...

[Duguntz]

Yeah, you're right. But the romans got me pissed so much with their countless stack, that I didn't resisted to send my duguntiz and slagonez knocking on their door... but for my next campain, I'll try to role-play it as much as possible... and taking my time! Because yeah, i went really fast, bt it was really not my intention, i got pissed off at the Romans and Aedui... oh! I'll try a new thread on it! lol!

WHAT'S THAT, BACK ON TOPIC! :oops:

[Duguntz]

Ouch, all of those chevrons look scary...
And i felt i was rushing it with my games... You seem a lot faster than me! (And than me when i try to go fast!)
I can just hope to be able to field just enough pantodapoi phalangitai to hold them until they tire themselves to the ground...
But they'll come as the EB team made them, cause that thing of morale-experience building costs me money I end up spending in mines and troops...
And i'm glad you liked the last one...
Bye!

You know, I'd love also to spend my money on mines, but as the coolest nation (Sweboz) come almost entirely Naked, those bonuses chevrons and moral is a must if I don't want my army to be cut to pieces by let's say... romanoi and Epeirotes (first phalanx that i face in game)... so my money go in offering to the gods!
And anyway, historicaly, Proto-Germans warrior were indeed some hell of warriors! so only for the sake of Roleplay, I need those buildings!... but new rule for me NO BLITZING... because yeah it goes fast, but once you're finished with the romans, as sweboz, you don't have anymore challege...

[Atraphoenix]

OH YEAH - now that was a great AAR.

Too bad there are so few good nomadic ones around... :embarassed:. Would anyone be interrested in a Saka AAR this summer?

Not Saka but another Pahlava AAR I am planning after my exam.

[Duguntz]

Ouch, all of those chevrons look scary...
And i felt i was rushing it with my games... You seem a lot faster than me! (And than me when i try to go fast!)
I can just hope to be able to field just enough pantodapoi phalangitai to hold them until they tire themselves to the ground...
But they'll come as the EB team made them, cause that thing of morale-experience building costs me money I end up spending in mines and troops...
And i'm glad you liked the last one...
Bye!

Haha, you know, with only LVL3 temple of Deiwos (the pillars) even levies are scary for a lot of heavy infantry without exp... and with +4 chvrons and +3 morals, they NEVER rout! (like true germans!) so they get also battle experience... Then, when they get battle exp in addition to that... (should I say more?) :smash::smash::smash::smash::smash:

what is nice, is that i can resist the AI with historical German armies, as Germans never had many elite, apart from heroes and royal famillies (wich became noble by battle skills)... so historicaly their armies were mostly Levies, free men in sevice of their lord, but also of Pride and Booty!!!

[HunGeneral]

Not Saka but another Pahlava AAR I am planning after my exam.


Sound good. You make a Phalav I might try a Saka AAR... after I get past my exams...:sweatdrop:

[Atraphoenix]

I have an exam for assignment namely to work in the ministry of education. I still miss my student days..... Plus I missed my students, too.
I hope we both pass them. Good luck mate.:book:
I hope you are luckier than me, you do not go mad when you study on Development Psychology, or zone of proximal development :wall:
I love teaching but I hate pedagogy.

[aelflune]

I'm actually having fun killing the Sweboz with their own crap units. It's called using tactics, unlike what the barbaroi do :2thumbsup:

The following is based on a true story.

In B.C. 232. War was beginning.

Harawulfaz (or some such name): Droogies, there be new men from the south. Epeirotes they call 'em. Tolchoked the Romani real horrorshow. Tomorrow they be here below das Alps. Let we go plunder their new cities and give their women the ol' in-and-out, o my brothers!

Sweboz lackeys: Jawohl, mein chief!

A few years later...

Harawulfaz: O my brothers, the Epeirotes tolchoked us real horrorshow! Us like malenky lizards crawling under feet after battle. Like brave droogies we run up to 'em to fight, but then they was behind and beside. Never before butt been poked by sharp spear! We must beg mercy now.

Sweboz lackeys: Jawohl, mein chief!

Greek messenger: Our basileus, Ptolemaios I, son of Pyrrhos, who is called the Eagle, offers you and your people a small sum as a token of his willingness to make peace. For we have no cause against you and we do not covet your lands. Leave us be, therefore, and so shall we leave you.

Harawulfaz: My droogies and I accept!

A year later...

Greek garrison commander: What happened?

Sentry 1: Somebody set us up the bomb!

Sentry 2: We get signal!

Commander: What!

Sentry 1: Unrolling note.

Commander: It's them!

Sentry 1: Note says "All your base are belong to us!!!"

Commander: The treacherous Sweboz covet our wealth once again! Our basileus made an error in treating them like civilized men, while they barely waited four seasons after taking our generous peace offering before betraying our agreement. May the gods smite them!

Several years later...

Greek geographer: My lord, we have crossed the mountains. Those cities we have just captured are firmly on the other side of the range from the former lands of the Romaioi.

Xenolaos Aiakides: Good. Now we shall defend this bridge as we gather up enough forces to sack a few of those villages they call cities. May this be a lesson for the treacherous barbaroi!

Yet several years, a few sacked cities and tens of thousands of dead Sweboz on the bridge over the river Kwai later...

Officer 1: Strategos, the overwhelming stupidity of the barbaroi have given us very many heroic victories over them as they insist on assaulting this bridge, even though there is a shallow crossing a stone's throw away. At first I thought they were brave men, but I have since concluded that they are mad.

Officer 2: Indeed. And for the uncountable barbaroi we felled in battle, strategos, you have gained the trait of Sated Warmonger! +1 to morale and, umm, etc.

Kamandros: Grrrar! Where are they now?! Give me more! Come, you smelly filthy treacherous barbaroi!

Officer 1: Strategos, you know what you are doing.

Kamandros: For great justice!

[Phalanx300]

Actually, the `barbarians` did use tactics and formations. Didn´t Caesar said that the Sweboz force he faced was the most disciplined army he ever faced?:2thumbsup:

They also applied wedge formations, shield walls etc.

Warfare was very important in Germanic society so its only logical that they would be master of it. :2thumbsup:

[Maion Maroneios]

OK, what's with all these dialogues lately? :clown:

Maion

[Cute Wolf]

Sauromatae army lost in one of the "Gawjam"s deep forest --> Certain death

Sweboz army lost in the open steppe plains --> Certain death

Romani army lost in both --> Certain death
Conclusion: Both Sweboz annd Sauromatae are better than Romani...:2thumbsup:

Sweboz army face Romans inside city walls... hard, bloody fight... but not a certain death....

Sauromate army face Romans inside city walls... what about assault? just starve them to death and let them die when they try to sally...

Conclusion... Romani army are still beatable in his own lands.....

Face any hellenic army in the city and all (Sweboz, Sauro, and Romani goes to certain death against those pointyy sarrisas on streets...

[Maion Maroneios]

Face any hellenic army in the city and all (Sweboz, Sauro, and Romani goes to certain death against those pointyy sarrisas on streets...
Conclusion: Hellenes >> Everyone

Maion

[aelflune]

Actually, the `barbarians` did use tactics and formations. Didn´t Caesar said that the Sweboz force he faced was the most disciplined army he ever faced?:2thumbsup:

They also applied wedge formations, shield walls etc.

Warfare was very important in Germanic society so its only logical that they would be master of it. :2thumbsup:

If only Harawulfaz knew. He might not be under the latest pile of bodies on the same bloody (literally) bridgehead. It must be the most cursed place on earth, having had maybe 50,000 people (large) spill their guts there.

[satalexton]

stop worshipping gork and mork and get civillized u silly barbaric greenies.

[miotas]

Officer 1: Strategos, the overwhelming stupidity of the barbaroi have given us very many heroic victories over them as they insist on assaulting this bridge, even though there is a shallow crossing a stone's throw away. At first I thought they were brave men, but I have since concluded that they are mad.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:


Conclusion: Hellenes >> Everyone

Maion

Your conclusion is flawed Maion. Hellenes mounted upon Hetairoi Kataphrakoi tanks >> Everyone. This is a more refined and far more accurate version of your conclusion. :yes:

Hey Maion. Is there a philhellene group somewhere, I was thinking of joining your Rômaioktonoi group but what do I have against anyone who is over 3000km away?

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Conclusion: Hellenes >> Everyone

Except Parthians.


Hetairoi Kataphrakoi tanks >> Everyone

Bah! They stole such ideas from Parthia. And even then they aren't as good.

[Cute Wolf]

Any cataphracts vs a good ordered Phalanx = nice horse meat with metal wrappings....
Phalanx = Hellenic
Hetairoi = Hellenic
Conclusion : Hellen >>> everyone..... except those heavily armoured nomadic HA's (but they must be used really en masse to be effective, whereas 4 unit of Phalanx just enough to keep the door shut)

[Phalanx300]

Our Germanic lands remain unconquered till today, yet you Hellenes have been beaten by the Romans whom we crushed! (Spartans aside ofcourse, can't talk bad about them :sweatdrop:)

[Cute Wolf]

Hellens are conquered because they have a weird hobby to stab once another without any sense of unity... that's why the Diadochi's have a lot of civil war and fragmentation:egypt:

[Vilkku92]

That's right. The germans do it better: instead of stabbing each others backs with small daggers they use cudgels and aim for the head.:beam:

[Atraphoenix]

When Romans captured Athens, she had more population than Rome.

[Cute Wolf]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ha ahahh hah hahahhha ahhah ahah ahah hahh hahahahahh ahh hahh hahahh ahhaha ahh hah ahha (Rooling in the ground and lauging like crazy):laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

That's why they are civilized... at least they use daggers and another sharp tool, not cudgels....
it seems some hellenic minority prefers to use their.... to stab each others tough:idea2:

[Phalanx300]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ha ahahh hah hahahhha ahhah ahah ahah hahh hahahahahh ahh hahh hahahh ahhaha ahh hah ahha (Rooling in the ground and lauging like crazy):laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

That's why they are civilized... at least they use daggers and another sharp tool, not cudgels....
it seems some hellenic minority prefers to use their.... to stab each others tough:idea2:


And what makes you think cudgels aren't sharp? You'd be suprised at the numbers of death they've caused. :yes: If some Germanic left to sword in favor of a cudgel that says enough of its power. :2thumbsup:

[Maion Maroneios]

When Romans captured Athens, she had more population than Rome.
Could I see some sources supporting that statement?

Maion

[Alsatia]

Rome and Greece (KH, Macedonia, Epeiros) are awesome - Equal First

Hellenes with sarissa are beatable when rome attacks. Theres something caled a pilum and there's also something called arrows. Then again, those phalanxes may abandon those sarissas and slice those archers to death.....

I also realised that Epeirot phalanx rout to my roarii when heading for Taras lol.

Missile > / < Phalanx?

[Atraphoenix]

Could I see some sources supporting that statement?

Maion


In general, there were three types of Greek city-state residents: citizen men,
women, and children; metics, who could be citizens of a different city-state
or from a foreign country; and slaves, who could be fellow Greeks, but
were more likely war captives (men, women, and children) from another
country. In Daily Life in Greece at the Time of Pericles, Robert Flaceliere
estimates that in mid-fifth century B.C.E. Athens there were 40,000 male citizens
and 20,000 male metics, and about 140,000 women and children citizens
and metics. Slaves may have numbered 300,000 throughout the
city-state, for a total of half a million people, of whom fewer than 10 percent
had voting privileges.

I have qoutes from the book but I do not have the book.

[Atraphoenix]

The citizenship law itself (for which see Aristotle, Athenaion
Politeia: 26.4), what it entailed, why Perikles introduced it and whether
and/or how it was applied in this case, i.e. was there a review of the citizen
rolls such as the one that took place 100 years (coincidence?) later in 346/5
(for which see the Commentary below on Androtion/Philokhoros F52 =
#206, and on the citizenship law in general see Patterson, 1981). 2. The
demography of fi fth-century Attika, i.e. to what extent do the numbers
provided here give us any help in arriving at a reliable fi gure for the adult
male citizen body in 445/4. The consensus on that score is not positive, if
we assume that Plutarch is correctly reporting that somewhat more than
14,000 was the number of confi rmed citizens. For example, Gomme, who
argues for an adult male population of about 43,000 in 431/0 (1933:
26), considers 14,000 ‘irreconcilable with all our other evidence’ and
insuffi cient for operating the machinery of government (1933: 16–17),
whilst that fi gure is even less suited to the higher number of 60,000 adult
males advanced by Hansen (1988: 14–28). More probably, we should
assume that only a portion of the citizens applied for the grain, of whom
14,240 were approved, the rest rejected. No doubt a record was kept of
the recipients. That is less likely for the rejected, however, and it is usually
concluded that Philokhoros arrived at their number (4,760) by subtracting
14,240 from a total of 19,000, though where he got that number from is
anyone’s guess. 3. The potential impact of population growth on the food
supply of fi fth-century Athens is the third area of study that attempts to
make use of the information in this scholion, though here again the results
are not encouraging. As even the anonymous interpolator perceived, the
computation does not work (i.e. neither 30,000 nor 40,000 medimni will
provide 5 medimni each to 14,240 citizens). It is even argued that the
scholiast is confusing two different distributions of grain (MacDowell
1971: 230). See, in general, on the topic of food shortage and supply,
Garnsey (1988: 125–7) and Davies (CAH2: 5.299–302).

As you see It is still hard to claim a certainty of the figures.

[Maion Maroneios]

Excellent, thanks Atraphoenix I'll be studying these sources for sure :yes:

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

and do not forget Maion, any info of history just a claim, some really absurd some really realist.
Remember Sulla :laugh4:

So I do not claim they are 100% true, they are just claims. But In my logic Athens should have more population than Rome until her conquest. As you know Roman recruited from whole Italian cities not just from Rome herself. As you see from the sources only 10% had a right to vote in athens so I do not think slaves reacted romans harshly even they may welcome them.

As an epical example
"When Mehmed II besieged Constantinople, the Emperor sent emissaries to pope that they were ready to unite the church that made hatred between many orthodox priest even many said "We prefer to see ottoman turban than cornets of cardinals"

so does the history repeat itself?

P.S. I like history of Greece, though many Greeks hates me. I still admire their history and their knowledge.

[Maion Maroneios]

I unertsand your point completely, Atraphoenix and yes, history repeats itself :beam: That's something that is shown in way too many occassions to just neglect it.

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

I unertsand your point completely, Atraphoenix and yes, history repeats itself :beam: That's something that is shown in way too many occassions to just neglect it.

Maion

BTW I am sure you do not hate me :yes:. Don't you? :inquisitive:

[Gabeed]

As you see It is still hard to claim a certainty of the figures.

Plus, you are assessing Athens in its heydey--before plague, the Pelopponesian War, and the fall of the Athenian Empire. I wouldn't be surprised if Athens had a smaller population in the 3rd century BC than in the 5th century BC.

[Atraphoenix]

BTW there is no use on focusing on the certainty of figures, I am sure we all laugh the 13 casualty thing of Sulla. :laugh4:
I do not wanna kill the topic any more, we may open another thread on this later, but I want to play EB now :laugh4:
I have finished my last version of my mod so I need to test it. Also I missed to blitz AS with Pahlava. :clown:

:focus:

[HunGeneral]

I hope we both pass them. Good luck mate.:book:

Thanks:book:.

Good luck to you too!:thumbsup:

[Darth Revan]

Definitely......Makedonia.......:yes::book:.......

[Maion Maroneios]

BTW I am sure you do not hate me :yes:. Don't you? :inquisitive:
No, why should I hate you?

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

No, why should I hate you?

Maion

Though I am a Georgian, like these guys :
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/hayasdan/hay_georgian_swords.gif
After my grandfathers escaped from Caucasus in World War I, I grew up in the most beautiful (at least in my childhood) city in Europe, Istanbul/Constantinople. So both Turks and Greeks dislike me. Turks hate me when I insist on saying I am Georgian not a Turk and I do not follow any religion, Greeks hate me when I say I come from Istanbul and living under Turkish ID.

so I am in the middle of nowhere :no: even I met new Georgians émigrés who escaped from last war. They said do not return, Georgia is not a place to live.
I hope one day Caucasus will be a peaceful to return.

[Maion Maroneios]

Nah, I knew a couple of Georgian lads sometime. Nice blokes, nothing against them or any other of your compatriots believe me.

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

BTW we killed the topic again :laugh4:

[Marcus Ulpius]

For me it's Rome, then Makedonia and may be Bactria (I never was successful with them but I hope, one day I will).

I always was a huge fan of Rome (although lately I'm reading more on Hellenistic nations). I will even say that if Roman Empire would not fall, the world would probably be a much better place (I won't tell why, because it will surely sparkle a debate not appropriate to these forums).

On the second place are Makedonians, but playing as them, I sometimes feel like cheating. AI is totally clueless at defending against phalanxes.

Bactria goes third, I like this faction, their history and their unit roster is absolutely awesome. Too bad I never managed to start a successful empire with them as AS always killed me while I still was in debt with small militia armies.