Drapanai too strong.....

[Cute Wolf]

:wall:

A moment ago, I play My Epeiros campaign, and goes deep into Getic lands... However I made a mistake, that I sent too much men in Hellenos, so while he carry most of the men, there was a separate group, led by captain comprised only 2 Hypaspistai.....

While my main army was laying siege to their Getic capital... This poor captain was attacked by a small army made of just 2 unit of Drapanai.... While I want to click the autoresolve button... It goes instead to the Play Battle... (My wrong here.....)

While in the map... looking that... There just 2 of them, and the Hypaspistai are My Crack elite.... I think they just a mere annoyance... but after that, they just charging me bullhead and....






:wall: They decimate my Hypaspist army...!!!!! :wall: (And I got a Crushing Defeat)
(Note: Medium battle difficulty, VH campaign)

At first I didn't believe what I've got.... an odd of 3 : 1, and I loooseeee?????? Did the AI really employ them for a suicide mission? (Use Alex...)


I know, they die like flies against missile units, but Tackling Hypaspist single handed with them is too strong I think...... Any Ideas?

[anubis88]

Well i believe that your hypaspistai should be butchered. I mean the Drapanai were experts for this kind of units. Slow, full of armour, no missile.
I don't believe it's a surprise, given that they are AP + have a huge lethality ( 0.26)... plus their morale it's preety high as well (15)

[Duguntz]

:wall:

A moment ago, I play My Epeiros campaign, and goes deep into Getic lands... However I made a mistake, that I sent too much men in Hellenos, so while he carry most of the men, there was a separate group, led by captain comprised only 2 Hypaspistai.....

While my main army was laying siege to their Getic capital... This poor captain was attacked by a small army made of just 2 unit of Drapanai.... While I want to click the autoresolve button... It goes instead to the Play Battle... (My wrong here.....)

While in the map... looking that... There just 2 of them, and the Hypaspistai are My Crack elite.... I think they just a mere annoyance... but after that, they just charging me bullhead and....






:wall: They decimate my Hypaspist army...!!!!! :wall: (And I got a Crushing Defeat)
(Note: Medium battle difficulty, VH campaign)

At first I didn't believe what I've got.... an odd of 3 : 1, and I loooseeee?????? Did the AI really employ them for a suicide mission? (Use Alex...)


I know, they die like flies against missile units, but Tackling Hypaspist single handed with them is too strong I think...... Any Ideas?

that what's happening when ''civilized people try to mess with ''barbarians'' one... the only solution I see would be to pack your army home and to pay tribute to the Getai begging them not to attack...LOL No no, I'm only joking there. i'm sure you have way more EB experience than me, but I'm a huge fan of Barbarian faction (Sweboz, precisely) and play only as them (mostly!) Getai aren't sweboz but all Barbarians follow the same principle... THEY'RE MISSILES ALLERGIC!

So forget about all elite stack and so... i mean, I can decimate an heavy Epeirote phalanx with almost naked clubmen... let's not talk about romans... But you can decimate a full army with 3 unit of archwer (wich, at the number of 3, isn't cheating not exploiting the system at all!) So you stated it yoursemf... You should always have plenty of missile unit when you go on a run in Barbarians land... and of corse, stay away from forest... they get huge bonuses there

[satalexton]

you got one little thing wrong there, there's only one true barbaroi faction in EB, and it's not the sweboz(which is 25% civillized, Maion knows why).

[Ca Putt]

well, don't be supriesed, that's about the job of many of the Sweboz and Getai units: killing of Uber-1337 troops and dieing to even the slightest hint of a ranged unit.

[Andronikos]

What about some different tactic? Like pointing both hypaspist units at one drapanai, one from rear if possible, they have no armor and should die quickly. But I'm not sure who will die faster. :D
Or for future change one hypaspistai for peltastai makedonikoi, a voley of javelins into the face of charging unit can make a huge difference, I have won several battles even before the lines collided with this tactic. Enemy army simply stopped, turned and routed.

[Cute Wolf]

Hmmm... I allready use defend.... but perhaps I think next time I wil try to spread one Hypaspist into thin line, and the other flank them.....
(That's a really good Idea... thanks....)

Any other ideas how to counter drapanai with melee units?

[Drewski]

you got one little thing wrong there, there's only one true barbaroi faction in EB, and it's not the sweboz(which is 25% civillized, Maion knows why).

That's very true. You both know in your hearts that its The Macedonians.

1) They went on a worldwide rampage of pillage and destruction, razing beautiful buildings to the ground (accidents bah..), truly barbaric.

2) They LOOK like barbarians (dark and swarthy with lots of body hair)

3) They all own cut price Doner Kebab shops (the most barbaric act of all, a true sacrilege against the noble art of take-away food)...

:playingball:

[athanaric]

By the way, how come Drapanai have higher morale (15) than Druxtiz Basterniska (13)? Aren't they basically two variants of one unit (with the Bastarnae being slightly better in matters armour and attack)?

[Cute Wolf]

Getai believe they're immortals.... why wavering at the enemy when you (believe) you can't die?

[miotas]

I haven't tried this myself but Epiros can get Agrianian Assault Infantry can't they? If so I would sugest putting your shock troops up against theirs, the added bonus being that your troops will also have javelins to throw before they engage.

Like I said I haven't tried it, but those Agrianian's are some fearsome troops...

[Maion Maroneios]

One of the main reasons I leave Thrake untouched in my campaigns. Drapanai are certainly not overpowered, you just underestimated them. Use missiles against them and see what happens.

Maion

[antisocialmunky]

One does not simply walk into Dacia...

If I'm using heavy infantry, I avoid that part of the world like the plague. Even asia minor with all its AP ax peoples can be tough if the AI isn't stupid. You should just bring lots and lots of archers. They might even be able to counter attack the various AP units as well. In a reenactment of the Dacian Wars I did with gabheed online, my legionaires got slaughtered but my 400 archer auxilleria slaughtered all the tired ap infantry after they had chewed through about 2000 of my poor poor legionaires.

[Maion Maroneios]

In a reenactment of the Dacian Wars...
This just gave me a wonderful idea...

Maion

[Watchman]

By the way, how come Drapanai have higher morale (15) than Druxtiz Basterniska (13)? Aren't they basically two variants of one unit (with the Bastarnae being slightly better in matters armour and attack)?It's pretty much like CW said. The Draps are nutjobs hopped up on the Getic belief in immortality of the soul ergo immortality, and not particularly worried about dying. The Bastarnae are (AFAIK) Dacian-influenced proto-Germanics without such religious quirks, and though fierce thus lacking that "will to die".

Anyway, if you can get them, wouldn't those Gallo-Thracian swordsmen be a pretty good counter ? They've got longswords for high lethality and decent attack skillz, javelins to boot, and rely more on high defskill than armour for survival so they don't suffer too badly from the AP...

[DaciaJC]

This just gave me a wonderful idea...

Maion

Already taken... :clown:

I couldn't help but gloat when I read the OP's account of his elites being butchered by my beloved Drapanai. Too strong? Nay, mate, for here is your chance to employ those otherwise useless Toxotai to good effect.

Truly, I wouldn't recommend sending any melee infantry into combat with Drapanai *unless* they can loose a few volleys of javelins prior to engaging in hand-to-hand. At that stage, however, most infantry will suffer heavy casualties, even if they ultimately prevail. The elites and higher-tier infantry base much of their defense on armor, which is halved by the Drapanai's AP ability. The levies and lower-tier infantry don't have much defense at all, and so the Drapanai's .26 lethality will certainly result in their slaughter.

[Nirvanish]

1. Build a boat.
2. Ship a general to North Africa.
3. Recruit these guys.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/northafrica/ele_maues_infantry.gif
type african infantry maures mercenary
dictionary african_infantry_maures ; Maures Infantry
category infantry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier african_infantry_maures, 50, 0, 1
mount_effect elephant +2, chariot +4, horse -2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy, hide_long_grass, mercenary_unit
formation 1.4, 1.6, 2.8, 3.2, 6, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 4, javelin, 57.8, 6, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown
stat_sec 10, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 3, 10, 3, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, -2
stat_mental 11, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1500, 375, 20, 30, 1500

Even if they get slaughtered it should be fun to use these gems of North Africa.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Well, if you want melee infantry that is good against Drapnai, go for the ones with almost no armour and plenty of defensive skill. That will help against the AP bonus. The high lethality will still inflict griveous casualties, as will the gnerally lower defence of no-armour infantry. But hey at least it is cheaper, thus more effective. Also, of course, pick the ones with more javelins if possible.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Drapanai and their stronger rhompaia bearing cousins are excellent phalanx breakers. I might have mentioned this before many times, but I'll do it again; they come in two flavours: rhomphaia guys if you want an elite, "fewer men the greater share of honour" way of slaughtering the enemy, or just drapanai if you run by the philosophy of sheer numbers of men. Both are only good on the offensive.

To defeat them you need something strong against them: usually a line of archers and spearmen for the Drapanai, or anything that can run well and throw a missile well. Against the Rhomphaia guys you would do better to hide behind a pole or charge them in the rear while holding them with cheap troops. Most arrows seem to be harmless on them.

[Andy1984]

Someone mentioned akontistai? These guys are dirtcheap, have 240 men (which means lots of javelins and dozens of men to keep these barbarians busy) and almost everywhere available.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Against the Rhomphaia guys you would do better to hide behind a pole or charge them in the rear while holding them with cheap troops. Most arrows seem to be harmless on them.
Are you kidding? They die pretty quickly from arrows, and very quickly from javelins. In hand to hand combat, however, they can even defeat Gaesatae. Tested that about 6 times on flat terrain, normal weather, custom battle. Won all of the times, with anywhere from 20 to 45 men left (Large Unit Size)

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Are you kidding? They die pretty quickly from arrows, and very quickly from javelins. In hand to hand combat, however, they can even defeat Gaesatae. Tested that about 6 times on flat terrain, normal weather, custom battle. Won all of the times, with anywhere from 20 to 45 men left (Large Unit Size)
I mean the heavily armored guys, they have a high defense and even a shield. Javelins seem to fare better against them.

[antisocialmunky]

The most ridiculous unit on the Getai Roster are their decently armored sickel sword wielding medium phalanxes. I've had mostly bad days against those guys...

[Maion Maroneios]

The most ridiculous unit on the Getai Roster are their decently armored sickel sword wielding medium phalanxes. I've had mostly bad days against those guys...
I agree, those guys are killers. Especially those well-armoured Thorakitai Stratiotai. But of course, they are no match for my pikemen.

Maion

[athanaric]

By the way, the Thorakitai Stratiotai are almost identical stat wise to the KH's Thorakitai Hoplitai, the only real difference being the secondary weapon (Thorakitai Hoplitai have an AP kopis).