(Discussion) Non-Breakable Alliances

[Rilder]

So M2:TW opens up the possibility of locking alliances so they can't be broken by the player or the AI without a diplomat.

Now this isn't a thread to suggest it to the EB Team since they probably already know about it and are discussing it but I was pondering what we players think of it.

It seems good in theory; keeps the AI from betraying you, however I'm worried that it may cripple the AI too much if they can't betray each other and most likely they won't be coded to cancel alliances first. (Aka Seleukia Satraps being locked)

If It could be locked to just prevent the AI from betraying the player however it would be a welcome improvement.

[Belisarius II]

Having locked alliances would be nice in the beginning of the game, but it wouldn't be much fun later in the game. If everything went according to plan then you could beat every faction's campaign in a couple of months or so. That wouldn't be much fun and I'd probably get sick of the game. If you made an alliance with all you're neighboring factions then what? You sit there and twiddle your thumbs?

[Cute Wolf]

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Just give one faction a "Papal State" faction, now all the Catholics can't attack them...

[Alsatia]

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Just give one faction a "Papal State" faction, now all the Catholics can't attack them...

There were no catholics at this time...

And how can you give a faction a faction?

[Cute Wolf]

Sorry, language error...

I mean (Dead Rabbit pics), we should include "papal state" faction, and rename "catholic" religion "Hellenic Culture", so all the Hellenic factions couldn't attack each other without suffer some kind of penalty...

But this was illogical, that's why I put those dead rabbit pics...

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[madbriton]

Wouldn't really fit the period. I mean, there were almost no alliances in those days that weren't broken at some time or another.

[bovi]

Wouldn't really fit the period. I mean, there were almost no alliances in those days ever that weren't broken at some time or another.
Fixed that for you. Alliances typically last only while there is a specific threat you ally against, or until either party decides it's no longer convenient to stand with their ally.

[Apraxiteles]

From all the times I've played M2TW, I can say that diplomacy in general is much improved already, particularly alliances. With the reputation system, it is kind of possible to set the precedent for the AI. If you immediately blitz somebody right at the start of the game, then pretty much no alliance will stick very long, either with you, or between the AI players. You'll have constant Total War. On the other hand, if you never break an alliance, and always wait for your enemy to declare war on you first, then your alliances will be practically unbreakable, regardless of what might be in their best interest. Especially if you marry off a couple of your daughters to them.

[Cute Wolf]

Hmmm... I affraid that it means we MUST TURN THE PRINCESS ON....

The only long lasting alliance in M2TW mod was Marriage Alliance.... Trustworthy reputation only got long lasting aliance with similar trustworthy factions... But Dubious, or worse factions still honor a marriage alliance (at least until the respective princess die), but my horde of pretty babes will certainly hold an alliance ffrom the start until end game (played British Islands, made king Alexander of Scots married with the Start English princess, and then sending Scottish princess to marry their heirs 40 years after, and after, and marrying my heir to their princess too...) and this savegame... end with Scots and English sweep all the map (Welsh, Irish, Norway.... they are allready dead... :laugh4:)

The only downside:still giving them some gifts of 1000 - 3000 florins for some years...:laugh4:

[a completely inoffensive name]

I would love for permanent alliances for everyone for a set period in the beginning (except for historical wars that were occurring at the time the game starts) to allow a build up. The only problem is removing the permanency of these alliances without resorting to scripting everyone to be neutral with each other all over again.

[Majd il-Romani]

Hmmm... I affraid that it means we MUST TURN THE PRINCESS ON....


take it easy man

[Cute Wolf]

Take it with your experience in M2TW.. the only alliance that the AI won't normally betray is marriage alliance... Getting some girls to be married with basileos's next door boys isn't that bad afterall...

[Exosus]

From all the times I've played M2TW, I can say that diplomacy in general is much improved already, particularly alliances. With the reputation system, it is kind of possible to set the precedent for the AI. If you immediately blitz somebody right at the start of the game, then pretty much no alliance will stick very long, either with you, or between the AI players. You'll have constant Total War. On the other hand, if you never break an alliance, and always wait for your enemy to declare war on you first, then your alliances will be practically unbreakable, regardless of what might be in their best interest. Especially if you marry off a couple of your daughters to them.

I didn't play a huge amount of M2TW (one campaign - when I encountered the Huns and realized that their archers were drastically inferior to my Venetian ones, I died a little inside and turned it off before I became an hero) but I went through an entire campaign without declaring war and had precisely 5 turns, grand total, of peace. I had 3 wars going on at any given moment for the most part.

Actually no, I did attack one faction - the Papal States. Pope excommunicated me for getting besieged and so I took Rome and spawn-camped the Pope for about a century. I actually shot him with a flaming Balista shot during the conquest of Rome. Good times. Moral of the story - Don't be a dick, dick.

ANYWAY, my point is that they attack as a result of 'balance of power' politics. If they feel you are too powerful and have become a threat to them, they will immediately attack in the hopes of nipping you in the proverbial bud before you grow weary of their existence.

Regarding the OT, I like the system from Alpha Centauri. There were two levels of alliance. The first one was basically what RTW has. The second level was more permanent. It included complete base access, complete territorial access, and when canceled moved all your units back to the nearest owned base to each unit. You could then immediately attack, but obviously there would be more warning since you would have to move your units across territory.

Also, there was no diplomats - you could open communication with any faction at any time as long as you had made first contact.

I'm not sure how much of this could work with the engine, but it would be my ideal.

[Skullheadhq]

I didn't play a huge amount of M2TW (one campaign - when I encountered the Huns and realized that their archers were drastically inferior to my Venetian ones, I died a little inside and turned it off before I became an hero) but I went through an entire campaign without declaring war and had precisely 5 turns, grand total, of peace. I had 3 wars going on at any given moment for the most part.

Actually no, I did attack one faction - the Papal States. Pope excommunicated me for getting besieged and so I took Rome and spawn-camped the Pope for about a century. I actually shot him with a flaming Balista shot during the conquest of Rome. Good times. Moral of the story - Don't be a dick, dick.

ANYWAY, my point is that they attack as a result of 'balance of power' politics. If they feel you are too powerful and have become a threat to them, they will immediately attack in the hopes of nipping you in the proverbial bud before you grow weary of their existence.

Regarding the OT, I like the system from Alpha Centauri. There were two levels of alliance. The first one was basically what RTW has. The second level was more permanent. It included complete base access, complete territorial access, and when canceled moved all your units back to the nearest owned base to each unit. You could then immediately attack, but obviously there would be more warning since you would have to move your units across territory.

Also, there was no diplomats - you could open communication with any faction at any time as long as you had made first contact.

I'm not sure how much of this could work with the engine, but it would be my ideal.

Lol, IN EBII we're going to spawn camp the basileos!