BNP are 'Nazi thugs'

[PowerWizard]

Not sure if this is topicworthy, but haven't seen a thread about this recently, and the elections are up and coming.


BNP are 'Nazi thugs' - Cameron

David Cameron has launched a scathing attack on the British National Party, calling them "Nazi thugs" and a "bunch of fascists".

The Tory leader admitted that many people will be angry at the main two parties over the MPs' expenses scandal, but urged them not to react by voting for the BNP.

Fielding questions from the public at an agricultural show, he said: "If you vote for the BNP you are voting for a bunch of fascists who want to divide this country over the issues of race and the colour of skin."

His response turned to anger when a member of the audience at the Bath and West Show in Shepton Mallet, Somerset, argued that the BNP "have a point when it comes to immigration".

Cameron told him: "Go and have a look at what the BNP have said. Do not be naive about what these people stand for.

"They dress up in a suit and knock on your door in a nice way but they are still Nazi thugs".

He told the audience: "There is a proper national debate that we should have about immigration. I want us to limit the number of people coming to Britain, but do not believe that the way to beat the BNP is to half agree with them.

"These people are not pleasant people."


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090527/tuk-bnp-are-nazi-thugs-cameron-dba1618.html

What do you think about the above statement?

[Cronos Impera]

All "national" parties are just a bunch of businessignificant-others who want to artifically achieve prosperity by eliminating foreign competition through protectionism. They are also the first to spread buzzwords around. "National" parties nowadays have lost their original ideology. You can't have a national party in your national state. You can have one, but that one excludes the other.

[rory_20_uk]

I don't like the BNP. I don't like almost everything they stand for.

But Nazi thugs? That is very sloppy terminology, used to capture the limited imagination of the massess in almost the same way that the drivel the BNP produce is.

I understand why he feels threatened as the conservatives have been caught helping themselves to state funds and, fearing that people vote "alternate right" he's having a pre-emptive swing in that direction.

~:smoking:

[Rhyfelwyr]

They aren't Nazi thugs, but there are some very nasty elements in the party.

Such cheap shots from Cameron which are clearly designed to protect his own parties rear will only make the BNP stronger.

[Lemur]

The NSDAP that existed in Germany from 1920-1945 were the Nazis. Nobody else. Oh, there might be few confused skinheads in Illinois and some creepy White-Power militia folks in Montana, but they don't signify. The real Nazis happened, they had their day, and they lost.

The BNP may have fascist tendencies, but they aren't the Nazis. Nobody is, not anymore.

[InsaneApache]

I wouldn't be too alarmed if I were 'call me Dave'. Most of the people who'd vote for the BNP would have voted Labour anyway. They do have a socialist agenda after all, except with the nastyness of blue eyes good, brown eyes bad.

If they do well in the upcoming elections it's down to Labour. They've neglected their core vote for so long now, I seriously doubt they will ever get it back.

As for are they Nazis? No they're not, they're Nationalists.

[Fragony]

They have the right idea in some area's, shame about the people having it, and why they have it. It is simply a racist party, a gutter too far for me.

[Tribesman]

What do you think about the above statement?

As has been pointed out several times so far they are not Nazi thugs so Cameron shouldn't have called them that.
However if he had just called them neo-nazi thugs , white supremcist scum, holocaust denying idiots, racist filth, pea brained imbeciles, criminal *******...or all of that then he would have been right.

[tibilicus]

I somewhat agree, but I personally feel the best term to use when talking about the BNP is morons.

That goes for the people who are prepared to vote for them as well.

Way to waste your vote..

[Seamus Fermanagh]

As has been pointed out several times so far they are not Nazi thugs so Cameron shouldn't have called them that.
However if he had just called them neo-nazi thugs , white supremcist scum, holocaust denying idiots, racist filth, pea brained imbeciles, criminal *******...or all of that then he would have been right.

I thnk most of your other epithets apply, Tribes, but I don't believe they can be called -- as a whole -- criminals, unless of course simply being an ******* qualifies as criminal.

[Vladimir]

The NSDAP that existed in Germany from 1920-1945 were the Nazis. Nobody else. Oh, there might be few confused skinheads in Illinois and some creepy White-Power militia folks in Montana, but they don't signify. The real Nazis happened, they had their day, and they lost.

The BNP may have fascist tendencies, but they aren't the Nazis. Nobody is, not anymore.

[blues]I hate Illinois Nazis.[/brothers]

But if we hate, are we not like Nazis ourselves? :thinking:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

[blues]I hate Illinois Nazis.[/brothers]

But if we hate, are we not like Nazis ourselves? :thinking:

Hate is all too often a self-damaging emotion, so it is best avoided.

However, a hatred for intolerance and racism seems marginally less negative than does a hatred of difference.

[Hooahguy]

i dont know much about the BNP, but what i can understand from this discussion is that they are neo-nazi and the like.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

They're not Nazis. They have elements of neo-Nazism for sure, but I don't think that forms their whole ideology. I cannot comment on whether they are thugs or not as I do not know enough about their current exploits, though from what I have read the earlier manifestations of that party certainly contained thugs.



As for are they Nazis? No they're not, they're Nationalists.

I would agree and disagree. They are a manifestation of a single form of nationalism. There is a marked difference between what the BNP preaches and, for example, civic nationalism.

[Kralizec]

There's a significant overlap between the nazis and the BNP. But as long as there isn't a modern British equivalent to the Sturmabteilung (the brownshirts) I wouldn't compare the two.
(I voted "somewhat agree")

[Tribesman]

Well Kralezic you have a point there , the brownshirts did security at meetings and beat up people they didn't like . Does the BNP have such a "security" organisation:yes:
But hey at least the BNPs new security branch is slightly different from their old one , their old one broke away and became C-18 because they didn't like the changes under Griffin.
Now the changes under Griffin were not major, just cosmetic. Like he said to the KKK ......the BNP cannot give out their real message because we wouldn't get elected ...but once we have the power and control the media we can put our policies of white supremacy into practice:dizzy2:

BTW did anyone get Ian Hislops take on the new BNP youth camps ?
He reckons it sounds completely unlike the Hitler youth in every aspect~;)

Then again ...."We have to have a body of trained young men capable of defending our organisation."
....Hitler or Griffin?

Though of course these people are patriots really, especially those that ran the youth groups....“The Royals have betrayed their people. When we’re in power they’ll be wiped out and we’ll get some Germans to rule properly.” :dizzy2:
But for a real classic to tell the kids....."Hitler will live forever"

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Then again ...."We have to have a body of trained young men capable of defending our organisation."
....Hitler or Griffin?[

Griffin. Am I right?


Though of course these people are patriots really, especially those that ran the youth groups....“The Royals have betrayed their people. When we’re in power they’ll be wiped out and we’ll get some Germans to rule properly.” :dizzy2:

:laugh4:

Someone didn't pay attention in his British history class. Poor Griffin...he already has Germans, you'd think he'd want British. :laugh4:

[Tribesman]

Someone didn't pay attention in his British history class. Poor Griffin...
That last section wasn't Griffin , that was the idiot that ran the youth wing (especially those that ran the youth groups)before he had to step down for being rather silly and praising the use of terrorism and murder in politics without realising that people were actually recording his interview...he now runs the BNPs publicity section:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:


he already has Germans, you'd think he'd want British.
Ah but don't forget , this is the BNP they are .....:stupido2:
So the queen will be OK because she is of northern european stock, but the husband will have to go because he is southern european which makes him a dirty foriegner plus of course all the kids and grandkids will have to leave the country too as they are racially impure.:2thumbsup:

[InsaneApache]

I'm sure Phil is Danish. :yes:

[Beskar]

There's a significant overlap between the nazis and the BNP. But as long as there isn't a modern British equivalent to the Sturmabteilung (the brownshirts) I wouldn't compare the two.

You mean Combat 18 (18 for A and H from the Alphabet named after an infamous Austrian) which is a the terrorist group wing of the party and they have their very own Youth BNP?

This is the style of propaganda they use on their children - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhmF6fgeEDc

They are fascists, they are thugs (they all have condemning criminal records), they even have a website full of names and addresses of people seen at anti-racist/anti-fascist/protests which encourage violence towards those people and yes, they actually go and terrorise people. They try to cause race-riots, even bombings, they are generally disgusting people.

There was a documentary which was very good, which was actually done by a Jewish reporter where they interviewed and followed one of the BNP top members, and they exposed all the lies. It is called "Young, Nazi and Proud". http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7842826632184074561

Anyone who thinks positively of the BNP really does need to be clued up fast.

[CountArach]

I believe they represent a newly-resurgent Fascism for sure, but are they resembling the NAZIs? No, except for the usual Neo-Nazi clap-trap they are bound to spew from time to time.

[Fragony]

They are fascists, they are thugs (they all have condemning criminal records), they even have a website full of names and addresses of people seen at anti-racist/anti-fascist/protests which encourage violence towards those people and yes, they actually go and terrorise people. They try to cause race-riots, even bombings, they are generally disgusting people.


Sums it up. Anti-facists are just as bad though.

[naut]

They aren't Nazis, obviously. :laugh4:

But, they aren't any better. I'll be thoroughly disappointed if they receive a significant amount of seats in the up coming elections.

Thanks for the links Beskar. Wow, they're even scummier than I ever imagined. Cameron had every right to respond with such outrage.

[Furunculus]

I voted: I somewhat agree., because to completely agree with the statement is to treat them with blanket disregard, which ignores the vital fact that they survive because they recognise voter issues that mainstream parties pretend do not exist.

If mainstream parties dealt with those 'uncomfortable' issues then the BNP would not receive the political oxygen to exist.

For that reason they are not just "Nazi thugs".

[Furunculus]

I don't like the BNP. I don't like almost everything they stand for.

But Nazi thugs? That is very sloppy terminology, used to capture the limited imagination of the massess in almost the same way that the drivel the BNP produce is.

I understand why he feels threatened as the conservatives have been caught helping themselves to state funds and, fearing that people vote "alternate right" he's having a pre-emptive swing in that direction.

~:smoking:
Conservatives seeking an alternative are far more likely to vote UKIP, it is Labour that has the BNP to fear.

[Fragony]

Conservatives seeking an alternative are far more likely to vote UKIP, it is Labour that has the BNP to fear.

Uh-huh. The NBP aren't rightwing they are racist socialists, or ah well national-socialists. BNP voters are sheeps looking for a sheppard, nono, you were born with a head on your neck learn to use it.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The BNP? Nazi thugs? Bloody right they are. A thieving, stealing and plundering horde of untrustworthy goons clad in business suits. :furious3:

I want my money back!!

Though just why this is any of Cameron's business I don't know. ~:confused:

https://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5687/bnpparibas.jpg (https://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bnpparibas.jpg)

BNP Paribas (Euronext: BNP, TYO: 8665) is one of the main banks in Europe. It was created on 23 May 2000 through the merger of Banque Nationale de Paris (BNP) and Paribas. Together with Société Générale and Crédit Lyonnais (now known as LCL), it is one of the "three old" banks of France. It is a constituent of the CAC 40 index.

On 9 August 2007, BNP Paribas announced that it could not fairly value the underlying assets in three funds as a result of exposure to U.S. subprime mortgage lending markets.[3] Faced with potentially massive (though unquantifiable) exposure, the European Central Bank (ECB) immediately stepped in to ease market worries by opening lines of €96.8 billion (then US$130 billion) in low-interest credit

[Kralizec]

Well Kralezic you have a point there , the brownshirts did security at meetings and beat up people they didn't like . Does the BNP have such a "security" organisation:yes:
But hey at least the BNPs new security branch is slightly different from their old one , their old one broke away and became C-18 because they didn't like the changes under Griffin.
Now the changes under Griffin were not major, just cosmetic. Like he said to the KKK ......the BNP cannot give out their real message because we wouldn't get elected ...but once we have the power and control the media we can put our policies of white supremacy into practice:dizzy2:

BTW did anyone get Ian Hislops take on the new BNP youth camps ?
He reckons it sounds completely unlike the Hitler youth in every aspect~;)

Then again ...."We have to have a body of trained young men capable of defending our organisation."
....Hitler or Griffin?

Though of course these people are patriots really, especially those that ran the youth groups....“The Royals have betrayed their people. When we’re in power they’ll be wiped out and we’ll get some Germans to rule properly.” :dizzy2:
But for a real classic to tell the kids....."Hitler will live forever"

Didn't know about that.

Is this wannabe SA even remotely comparable in size to the original, though? Do they have quasi-military uniforms like the originals? Do they habitually break up meetings of other parties, etc.?

[Kralizec]

Uh-huh. The NBP aren't rightwing they are racist socialists, or ah well national-socialists. BNP voters are sheeps looking for a sheppard, nono, you were born with a head on your neck learn to use it.

I love the fact that whenever a fascist/extreme right wing demonstration is announced, enough anti-fascists turn out available to do a counterdemonstration several times its size. Most of these people really ought to get jobs :juggle2:

[HoreTore]

Burn the lot of 'em.

And offer some cheese for their voters whine....

[Rhyfelwyr]

Hmm well I never realised some of the stuff Tribesman mentioned. I thought maybe the current party was less racist than it was since they appeal to immigrants from a few decades ago, but then I guess there were 'Jews for Hitler' as well.

[InsaneApache]

Didn't know about that.

Is this wannabe SA even remotely comparable in size to the original, though? Do they have quasi-military uniforms like the originals? Do they habitually break up meetings of other parties, etc.?

The only organization, not run by the state, allowed to wear uniforms are the scouts. IIRC a law was passed in the 1930s making the wearing of uniforms illegal.

[Fragony]

Hmm well I never realised some of the stuff Tribesman mentioned. I thought maybe the current party was less racist than it was since they appeal to immigrants from a few decades ago, but then I guess there were 'Jews for Hitler' as well.

Keep away from these guys, they are as extremist as they come, they are scum. I hope the brits won't fall for this, even if I would understand if they do. Wise up, these guys aren't the solution for anything just a product of the problem.

[Beskar]

I love the fact that whenever a fascist/extreme right wing demonstration is announced, enough anti-fascists turn out available to do a counterdemonstration several times its size. Most of these people really ought to get jobs :juggle2:

Who? The anti-fascists or the fascists?

[Fragony]

Who? The anti-fascists or the fascists?

Is there a difference then?

[Beskar]

Is there a difference then?

No, they are obviously the same-thing exact thing.
I would have thought the word "anti-" implies "opposite" would have been obvious to avoid a question like that.

[Fragony]

No, they are obviously the same-thing exact thing.
I would have thought the word "anti-" implies "opposite" would have been obvious to avoid a question like that.

Pretty much, anti-fascists are just that more violent and intolerant, and well, fascist.

[Beskar]

Anti-fascists are more like the school kids who tell the playground bully to go away. They are aiming to prevent the bully from bullying the other children.

They aren't the bully themselves, they only intolerate of intolerance.

It's like having to go to war with a nation who goes around invading/conquering everyone. Unfortunately, you need to fight them back.

[Wishazu]

I agree with Fragony, quite often you find the people who are "anti" something are just as bad or even alot worse than the "somethings" supporters. Just look at all the Anti-abortion stuff that goes on, disgusting.

[Fragony]

We all have ideals, but not everybody uses violence, anti-facists are extremely violent. Anything they can't agree on is a target for intimidation, and they are not kidding they will actually do it.

edit: @ beskar

[Beskar]

Wishazu, the name doesn't cause some one to be violent. It is a completely unrelated exercise.

[Fragony]

Wishazu, the name doesn't cause some one to be violent. It is a completely unrelated exercise.

wrong, the name is 'facist', once it has been decided hunting season is open. And the facist can be just about everyone, but who's going to argue no, that facist might just as well be you because of the suffocating social control within the extreme left.

[Meneldil]

Is there a difference then?

Is this the new version of "communists are worse than nazis"/"Stalin is worse than Hitler" thingy?

[Fragony]

Is this the new version of "communists are worse than nazis"/"Stalin is worse than Hitler" thingy?

No this is where you get a balloon :balloon2:

[Meneldil]

Oh. Nice, for a moment I thought you were actually speaking nonsense, using good old reactionary rhetoric tricks.

[Fragony]

Oh. Nice, for a moment I thought you were actually speaking nonsense, using good old reactionary rhetoric tricks.

made you say that :balloon2:

[Furunculus]

I agree with Fragony, quite often you find the people who are "anti" something are just as bad or even alot worse than the "somethings" supporters. Just look at all the Anti-abortion stuff that goes on, disgusting.

agreed, their ideas about what is intolerable, and reasonable actions to combat that, are a matter of perspective which is naturally distorted by their own extremism.

[Kralizec]

Wishazu, the name doesn't cause some one to be violent. It is a completely unrelated exercise.

Literally anti-fascist would be someone who's strongly opposed to fascism. Most of us are. But virtiually all people who describe themselves as such are fairly militant in the way they oppose fascism.

"Fascist" and/or racist demonstrations over here are very small and fairly rare, yet require extensive police attention. Why? Because for every right wing moron that shows up for the announced demonstration, more than one idiot who describes himself as an "anti-fascist" will show up to beat the crap out of them.

As for getting jobs: I was referring to the anti-fascists.
Setting up a demonstration usually takes time and effort to make people show up. Yet "anti-fascists" always manage to drum up plenty of people in little time as soon as they hear rumours about a right wing demonstration, and I think it's partly because most of them (= the anti-fascists) have nothing better to do.

[Beskar]

Maybe because they think it is important to show solidarity and support against ideas of intolerance?
You rather prefer that people don't take any action at all. Do you know that compliance is a form of consent?
So you actively would support the ideas of retarded concepts of racial discrimination instead of voicing opinions and making a stand against it?


wrong, the name is 'facist', once it has been decided hunting season is open. And the facist can be just about everyone, but who's going to argue no, that facist might just as well be you because of the suffocating social control within the extreme left.

What a strawman. Definition of fascist has been actively decided under set criteria. I wonder if this "suffocating social control" means you are a supporter of racial hatred. Do you allow the discrimination of people based on race? Do you allow the undermining of peoples fundamental human rights, just because they happened to be born to parents from a warmer climate?

Seriously, get a clue.

[CountArach]

Pretty much, anti-fascists are just that more violent and intolerant, and well, fascist.
:laugh4:

You NEVER get old :laugh4:

So Frag would you say that I, as an Anti-Fascist and a self-proclaimed Pacifist, am more violent than a Fascist?

[Fragony]

Maybe because they think it is important to show solidarity and support against ideas of intolerance?


Eye of the beholder, I am against islam because I think it is intolerant. Leftist are against me because I am against the islam. I got a vote, you got a vote, intimidation only dampens your right to speak freely. What you guys see as intolerant makes total sense to others.

So Frag would you say that I, as an Anti-Fascist and a self-proclaimed Pacifist, am more violent than a Fascist?

yep, might expand, pacifists are rather picky in their pacifsm, it's really never about war, it's about the west.

[Beskar]

There is a difference being opposed to ideas of intolerance than just being blankly intolerate of people.

So with Islam, you might be opposed to certain ideas of it, so if you saw a Muslim person, would you be discriminatory against them? Would you tell them you don't want them at your job/street/pub because of their faith? If you do, then you are definitely intolerant.

If you see a person, accept them as a person, though you may disagree with policies of Islam. Possibly if they believe such things teach them against the ideas of intolerance then that is not.

Many Muslims are just like Christians, pretty much in name only and they don't agree with certain aspects of it, such as Christians don't always agree with their church.

Differences. Learn to know them.

There is a fundamental difference between intolerate of intolerence and breeding intolerence. Rather like having cockroachs in your house. You can either breed the cockroachs, causing the state of your house to get worse, or do something about the cockroachs and get rid of them. The person removing the cockroachs (intolerence) is not the same as the person who is breading the cockroachs (intolerence).

[Fragony]

There is a difference being opposed to ideas of intolerance than just being blankly intolerate of people.

So with Islam, you might be opposed to certain ideas of it, so if you saw a Muslim person, would you be discriminatory against them? Would you tell them you don't want them at your job because of their faith?

Yes, actually did, more then a few times. I don't want lawsuits over headscarves that costs a whole lot more then a good muslim employee.

[Beskar]

So you didn't want people being employed because they wore a head-scarf? Unless it is an area of work where they can't wear such an item, it is pretty silly idea wanting to reject people. If it is because of uniform policy, just have a headscarf as an optional part of the uniform. There you go problem solved.

Wow, that took a whole 2 seconds. Phew, I wish World Peace was as easy solution as this, I am on a roll.

[Fragony]

So you didn't want people being employed because they wore a head-scarf? Unless it is an area of work where they can't wear such an item, it is pretty silly idea wanting to reject people. If it is because of uniform policy, just have a headscarf as an optional part of the uniform. There you go problem solved.


If things only were that simple. It's not just a headscarve, it's the right on wearing it. Why would I need to accept it, what if I just don't like it, I think I should be able to discriminate someone just because I don't like him. Why would I have to accept someone who insists on showing his or her religion, screw their religion it is nothing to me or the job they are doing. The right to wear a scarve goes directly against my believe that I should be able to do as I please.

[Kralizec]

Maybe because they think it is important to show solidarity and support against ideas of intolerance?
You rather prefer that people don't take any action at all. Do you know that compliance is a form of consent?
So you actively would support the ideas of retarded concepts of racial discrimination instead of voicing opinions and making a stand against it?

Read my post again. It's about

A) a tiny group of people with bigoted and stupid ideas, wich can be safely ignored
B) a much larger amount of people who not only disagree, but think it's necessary to commit acts of violence against them, especially when they gather in public

It's not that anti-fascists have intolerant or horrorible ideas (even though some of them do), but their idea of "activism" and what is allowed to oppose people they disagree with.


So Frag would you say that I, as an Anti-Fascist and a self-proclaimed Pacifist, am more violent than a Fascist?

That depends. Nowadays hardly anyone thinks fascism is a good idea so you can assume people are against it until they say otherwise. If people explicitly label themselves as an anti-fascist, they more than likely belong to the group mentioned above. If you haven't set stuff on fire or at least thrown rocks at neonazis (or the police), you wouldn't really fit in :juggle2:

[Beskar]

If things only were that simple. It's not just a headscarve, it's the right on wearing it. Why would I need to accept it, what if I just don't like it, I think I should be able to discriminate someone just because I don't like him. Why would I have to accept someone who insists on showing his or her religion, screw their religion it is nothing to me or the job they are doing. The right to wear a scarve goes directly against my believe that I should be able to do as I please.

Yeah, those damn Head-scarfs are going take over the world.

Sorry, I can't take you seriously. A person who hates other people because they wear a headscarf is fair-game to be ridiculed and mocked.

"THE PROBLEM WITH ISLAM IS NOT OPPRESSION OR INTOLERANCE IT IS THE FACT THEY WEAR A HEADSCARF!"

You want to know the fundamental irony of your post. You not wanting them to wear a headscarf is hypocritical, because you because you have to right to go against them doing exactly what is their right for them to do as they please.

What a hypocrite.


"Hi there, I got an ideal resume, I am a very hard worker, I will make your business proud and earn it lots of money."
"Do you wear a headscarf?"
"Yeah.. anyway, I am the ideal person for the job out of all your applicants"
"Go away"
"Why...? Something wrong with my resume?"
"I don't like you dirty head scarf wearing people!"

[Fragony]

Yeah, those damn Head-scarfs are going take over the world.

Sorry, I can't take you seriously. A person who hates other people because they wear a headscarf is fair-game to be ridiculed and mocked.

"THE PROBLEM WITH ISLAM IS NOT OPPRESSION OR INTOLERANCE IT IS THE FACT THEY WEAR A HEADSCARF!"

You want to know the fundamental irony of your post. You not wanting them to wear a headscarf is hypocritical, because you because you have to right to go against them doing exactly what is their right for them to do as they please.

What a hypocrite.

Yeah I hate them, that is why Ibrahim is teaching me arabic, Fatima says hi by they way, what a darling. You, don't get the point.

[Hooahguy]

methinks you misunderstood frag, Beskar.

[Beskar]

Yeah I hate them, that is why Ibrahim is teaching me arabic, Fatima says hi by they way, what a darling. You, don't get the point.

No, this is the point.

You are a hypocrite, ideally speaking, if Ibrahim wanted to do as he pleased and teach you arabic, he is doing the exact same thing as you. Forcing people to do things as you please and Ibrahim is forcing you to do things as he pleases. In your world, it is perfectly acceptable ideologically speaking. In other words, you are just as bad.


methinks you misunderstood frag, Beskar.

I haven't, he is not even clear what he is even implying or saying. He is actually advocating what is he meant to be preaching against, it is pure hypocrisy.

He wants to force other people to do things as he pleases, yet, he complains at the perceived threat of some one else doing the exact same thing to him. The irony is, he sees no problem forcing people to remove their head scarfs, but if he applied for a job, he would see a problem is being forced to wear one.

Do you not understand? That is the joke of it all. It is pure hypocrisy.

If you want to have the right not to have other people force to do to you as they please, then you must not do the same to others. Lead by example, not by hypocrisy.

Only hypocrisy allow is from humour and that is to expose valid points. Such as intolerance against intolerance. Using fire to show fire the point of it to stop it.

[Fragony]

Do you not understand? That is the joke of it all. It is pure hypocrisy.



The real joke is that you want the state to empose itself to secure freedom.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Can we please get over this habbit of calling everyone that disapproves of something "hateful". Frag clearly doesn't hate Muslims, he just doesn't want the inconvenience that comes with the PC :daisy:, which is fair enough.

Also, militant anti-fascists are moronic. They campaign to ensure their right to freedom of speech by... suppressing the speech of anyone that disagrees with them. Oh, the irony. Best tactic for fascists is to ignore them (presuming they are not yet in power, don't dare say "appeasement").

[Tribesman]

Frag clearly doesn't hate Muslims, he just doesn't want the inconvenience that comes with the PC , which is fair enough.


methinks you misunderstood frag, Beskar.
Should we perhaps go back to one of Frags earlier posts about why job applications with names that sound muslim or arabic get thrown straight in the bin by him , then come back to what he is claiming now?
See Frag I am being kind , I didn't mention your lets go and beat up immigrants this weekend rant at all.:2thumbsup:

[Rhyfelwyr]

See Frag I am being kind , I didn't mention your lets go and beat up immigrants this weekend rant at all.:2thumbsup:

Link?

[Beskar]

Now the truth comes out. Fragony is a crypto-fascist.

[Fragony]

Link?

No link needed Tribes is right, but I have apoligized for that post so many times, I wasn't thinking clearly. Was when van Gogh was murdered and I was drunk and angry, yes I said that.

[Beskar]

For a man who says how he hates having others impose themselves on him, he sure goes out of his way to treat people in that regard.

Would you like it if people threw your name into the bin because it was too non-Muslim sounding? Would you like to be discriminated against, when all you want to do is have a peaceful life with with your wife and kids?

That is exactly what you are doing to them.

If you throw out an application because they are illegal immigrants, that is fairgame, but you are willing to throw out the applicants of Dutch Citizens just because their name is a little Arabic sounding.

The hypocrisy streaming from it is amazing.

I have no sympathy for people like you. You obvious half-thought an idea without realising or thinking through the implications of your actions. You speak of being intolerant against the ignorant aspects of Islam, except you throw the applications of arabic sounding names of Dutch Citizens into the bin. You make a big deal over a headscarf.

Islam does have intolerance in it, so does Christianity and other faiths. Yet, the best way to show is to show, preach and teach tolerance. Not discriminate against innocents just because you have some jumped up vendetta.

[Fragony]

I have made a mistake, being really angry. I was wrong, and I think Tribes bringing it up is wrong as well.

The immigrantss should be happy to have me really, I don't agree with the policy, I would never harm them. You wouldn't believe how harsh we dutch can be, compared to most dutch I am very very moderate, you will meet us eventually I am not the enemy.

[Tribesman]

I think Tribes bringing it up is wrong as well.

Hey I didn't mention it:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
However if I wanted a whole book of quotes expressing extreme prejudice against Muslims your posts on this forum would be a good source wouldn't they .:yes:

[Fragony]

Hey I didn't mention it:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
However if I wanted a whole book of quotes expressing extreme prejudice against Muslims your posts on this forum would be a good source wouldn't they .:yes:

I would hate to hear you when you have actually won a discussion with me instead of me rolling over, I have to listen to this for how many years, 5?

[Beskar]

I have made a mistake, being really angry. I was wrong, and I think Tribes bringing it up is wrong as well.

The immigrantss should be happy to have me really, I don't agree with the policy, I would never harm them. You wouldn't believe how harsh we dutch can be, compared to most dutch I am very very moderate, you will meet us eventually I am not the enemy.

There is one universal saying. Treat others like you would like to be treated yourself. You are currently treating others what you would hate to be treated yourself.

People make mistakes, the thing is, we have to learn from your mistakes. Realise that you are treating others based on a jumped up idea of how they "would be" treating you.

Apologise out-loud, at least to yourself, try a new start. See what you did wrong and correct it. Don't throw away applications based on name. Read through them, possibly even begin to consider them if they are really good. Lead by example, not through intolerance.

It is never too late too change, you can always try to amend things to the best of your abilities. However, this doesn't mean to try to do things last minute, it is to do them when you can.

When you read the news and some muslims did something you dislike. Don't go around hurting innocents and hating people who aren't even related. Use that as examples of not how to behave, instead of retributing the same behaviour.

[Fragony]

There is one universal saying. Treat others like you would like to be treated yourself. You are currently treating others what you would hate to be treated yourself.

People make mistakes, the thing is, we have to learn from your mistakes. Realise that you are treating others based on a jumped up idea of how they "would be" treating you.

Apologise out-loud, at least to yourself, try a new start. See what you did wrong and correct it. Don't throw away applications based on name. Read through them, possibly even begin to consider them if they are really good. Lead by example, not through intolerance.

It is never too late too change, you can always try to amend things to the best of your abilities. However, this doesn't mean to try to do things last minute, it is to do them when you can.

When you read the news and some muslims did something you dislike. Don't go around hurting innocents and hating people who aren't even related. Use that as examples of not how to behave, instead of retributing the same behaviour.

Why say sorry, I am not wrong.

[Beskar]

Why say sorry, I am not wrong.

You are wrong, you are even wrong by your own words. Swallow your pride.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong, there is only wrong is not making things right.

[Fragony]

There is nothing wrong with being wrong, there is only wrong is not making things right.

Yes, there is a lot wrong with being wrong. Not everybody thinks alike.

[Beskar]

"making things right" is in essence the punishment and the redemption of doing something wrong. While we live life in efforts not to mess-up and do something wrong, perhaps accidently dropped a cup which broke. How we live our life is what we do at that moment.

What is really wrong is causing further wrongs and not correcting those wrongs to make it right. People make mistakes, and when they do, it is their duty to make them right again.

It is a complete strawman and shows lack of thought to suggest it means "you did wrong, its ok, lol" as it isn't that at all in the slightest.

As for people not thinking alike, how do you think that is achieved? It is achieved by teaching, preaching and showing others what is right.

[Hooahguy]

As for people not thinking alike, how do you think that is achieved? It is achieved by teaching, preaching and showing others what is right.
but what you think is right is not what they think is right. :yes:

[Fragony]

@ beskar

Making it so easy, sorry buddy the Islam is not peace.

[Beskar]

but what you think is right is not what they think is right. :yes:

I am a Secular Humanist and the grounds of that is the only framework needed. It is the most logical, fair and just system which people of various faiths can even apply.

[Hooahguy]

sorry to break it to you.... :shrug:

[drone]

So Cameron has stated that Fragony is an anti-multiculturist thug, and that the British should not vote for him in the upcoming election? :inquisitive:

:focus:

[Beskar]

This is slowly going into the constructs of morality, opposed to the BNP/Fascism. Save that talk for another thread.

[Fragony]

This is slowly going into the constructs of morality, opposed to the BNP/Fascism. Save that talk for another thread.

What you disgust is defending you, it has come to that. Must be a really bad realisation for those still calling it the UK. And they are the scum of the earth, can we call the BNP anything else. Enjoy your apathy and don't look back. Should have listened.

[Beskar]

Yeah, it really is defending me. I mean, where would I be without those narrowminded fools who are defending the rational and logical thinkers from harms-way. I mean, we will suddenly start talking arabic overnight if it wasn't for them.

[Fragony]

Yeah, it really is defending me. I mean, where would I be without those narrowminded fools who are defending the rational and logical thinkers from harms-way. I mean, we will suddenly start talking arabic overnight if it wasn't for them.

There are some sapects of islam you shouldn't be ignorant of, big mistake.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think the stuff about Islamic extremism is exaggerated a lot, especially for the vast majority of Muslims that live in the west. Pretty much everything said about Islam has been said about Catholicism in the past, and yet now we think nothing of it.

Nowadays for Politics I have to write essays about whether Islam is compatible with democracy, a matter of decades ago we were doing the same for Catholicism. The conflation of politics and religion isn't new either, in the words of Oliver Cromwell on one mural, it reads "Catholicism is more than a religion. It is a Political Power therefore I’m led to believe there will be no peace in Ireland until the Catholic Church is Crushed". Sounds like certain people's views on Islam today.

Religions that seem backward always get with the times, even if it means betraying their beliefs.

[Fragony]

I think the stuff about Islamic extremism is exaggerated a lot

It is. We don't need the muslims for cultural suicide, anything will do really.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Just look at all the Anti-abortion stuff that goes on, disgusting.

Or all the anti-life stuff that goes on, disgusting.


Maybe because they think it is important to show solidarity and support against ideas of intolerance?

You do know where most of the militant anti-fascists stand politically, right? They're hardly any more tolerant.

[HoreTore]

You do know where most of the militant anti-fascists stand politically, right? They're hardly any more tolerant.

Hippies and democrats are intolerant?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I am a Secular Humanist and the grounds of that is the only framework needed. It is the most logical, fair and just system which people of various faiths can even apply.

That's an intollerant statement, replace "Secular" with "Christian" and it's bigotry. Also, what's with the intervention against Frag? He's not mentally ill, I may not like some of what he says but we here know he does have reasons.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hippies and democrats are intolerant?

Hippies- heck yes! And liberals - well check out what this liberal comedian has to say about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4FI-3UGv_A (starts at the 1 min mark, but you'll miss jokes bashing Republicans).

He says liberals;

object before they know what they're objecting to,
and that most of the repression of free speech on college campuses in the past decade or so has come from the left
Among other things


CR

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Hippies and democrats are intolerant?

If by hippies and democrats you meant Die Linke and by extension the Sozialistische Einheitspartei Deutschlands then you'd be right...

There is a reason I don't make myself seen at anti-fascist events, and that isn't because I'm not an anti-fascist.

[Beskar]

Also, what's with the intervention against Frag? He's not mentally ill, I may not like some of what he says but we here know he does have reasons.

No, he is actually doing illegal activities such as race discrimination just by discriminating against everyone with anything close to an Arabian sounding name.

[Kralizec]

No, he is actually doing illegal activities such as race discrimination just by discriminating against everyone with anything close to an Arabian sounding name.

I hate to burst your bubble, but in Fragony's country it's not illegal to have negative opinions about religions or names.

I don't know where you live and how things are done there.

[Beskar]

Actually, it is illegal under the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.


Article 21
Non-discrimination
1. Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic
features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority,
property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.

So an employer doing such discrimination is breaking the law. Netherlands probably also has its own internal laws as well, which I could probably find quickly on google.


source: http://www.avrio.net/540.0.html

Do you have laws against discrimination, if so, what types of discrimination do you have and how are they defined?

Yes. Section 1 subsection 3 of the Collective Agreement Act. The stipulation obliging an employer to employ workers of a certain race or of a certain religion, ideology or political conviction or members of a certain association or which obliges him to refuse to employ them, is invalid.

Article 14 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms (ECHR): the enjoyment of the rights and freedoms given in the Convention have to be assured without any without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.

https://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9780/41510281.jpg

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

No, he is actually doing illegal activities such as race discrimination just by discriminating against everyone with anything close to an Arabian sounding name.

It isn't illegal, and nor should it be. Enforced tolerance gives but an illusion of tolerance, usually at the expense of individual liberty. True tolerance cannot be mandated by the state - it must come from the citizenry as a whole.

[Kralizec]

1. he has made it clear, on a number of occasions, that his bief is with islam as a religion and not with individual muslims. Human rights are not about groups.

2. merely holding a negative opinion about a group does not amount to "discrimination" in any relevant sense.

[Beskar]

This post says different. Which he stated was fact.


Should we perhaps go back to one of Frags earlier posts about why job applications with names that sound muslim or arabic get thrown straight in the bin by him , then come back to what he is claiming now?
See Frag I am being kind , I didn't mention your lets go and beat up immigrants this weekend rant at all.:2thumbsup:

Get your heads out of your :daisy:.


It isn't illegal...

It is illegal - Fact.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

This post says different. Which he stated was fact.



Get your heads out of your :daisy:.

:rolleyes:


It is illegal - Fact.

Whether it is or isn't doesn't change the point I made. Oh, and by the way, about your little play on the Charter on Fundamental Rights...


The wording of the document has been agreed at ministerial level and has been incorporated into the draft Constitution for Europe. However, the draft constitution was rejected by referendums in France and the Netherlands. The text was also incorported in the later Treaty of Lisbon but Ireland rejected this in a referendum. Thus technically the Charter does not have legal force.

[Tribesman]

2. merely holding a negative opinion about a group does not amount to "discrimination" in any relevant sense.

Throwing employment applications in the bin is denying employment oppertunities , doing so on the basis that the names sound like they may belong to an ethnic/religious group you don't like is discrimination .
So how on earth you can write that in this case is really beyond belief .


Whether it is or isn't doesn't change the point I made.
The point you made ?????
It isn't illegal, and nor should it be.
Errrrr...it is illegal and it should be.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Errrrr...it is illegal

Not under the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, unless you'd like to point out how my quoted text is wrong.


and it should be.

He didn't address that point, did he?

[Tribesman]

Not under the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union
Completely irrelevant since most countries on the planet have the relevant legislation already

[HoreTore]

Hippies- heck yes! And liberals - well check out what this liberal comedian has to say about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4FI-3UGv_A (starts at the 1 min mark, but you'll miss jokes bashing Republicans).

He says liberals;

object before they know what they're objecting to,
and that most of the repression of free speech on college campuses in the past decade or so has come from the left
Among other things


CR

I'm going to ignore that.


If by hippies and democrats you meant Die Linke and by extension the Sozialistische Einheitspartei Deutschlands then you'd be right...

No, I mean people like Angela Merkel, Paul McCartney, Gerhard Schröder, Nicolas Sarkozy, Barack Obama, John F. Kennedy, et etc....

Can't say I've seen much fascism in them.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Completely irrelevant since most countries on the planet have the relevant legislation already

Yes, you are correct in that respect (I was trying to show Beskar that the Charter did not apply), though Fragony could probably make a case that discriminating on the basis of wearing a headscarf is not illegal.



No, I mean people like Angela Merkel, Paul McCartney, Gerhard Schröder, Nicolas Sarkozy, Barack Obama, John F. Kennedy, et etc....

Can't say I've seen much fascism in them.

Hmmm, I think you've missed the point I was trying to make. No offence.

[InsaneApache]

Speaking as someone who has employed people, I've only ever employed those I thought beneficial to the (my) business. I couldn't give a flying :daisy: if they were sky blue pink. That's the beauy of capitalism. Best man for the job. Bugger that :daisy: about equality of outcomes. Cream will rise.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Speaking as someone who has employed people, I've only ever employed those I thought beneficial to the (my) business. I couldn't give a flying :daisy: if they were sky blue pink. That's the beauy of capitalism. Best man for the job. Bugger that :daisy: about equality of outcomes. Cream will rise.

:yes:

I strongly agree with this - that the best person for the job should get the position, regardless of any other factors (wealth, power, skin colour, ethnicity). However, when it comes to the legality of being able to choose who you want for your business, I'm on the fence. I can always boycott a shop that discriminates against people (and I would do so), a task made all the easier in the age of the Internet.

[HoreTore]

Hmmm, I think you've missed the point I was trying to make. No offence.

Your point was that anti.fascists are limited to commies and anarchists(or that the majority are, or whatever)? Well, that would be quite wrong. The overwhelming majority of the european and US population are democrats, which automatically makes them anti-fascists, since fascism requires a dictator.

[HoreTore]

Yes, you are correct in that respect (I was trying to show Beskar that the Charter did not apply), though Fragony could probably make a case that discriminating on the basis of wearing a headscarf is not illegal.

How 'bout.... discriminating on the basis of having a tattoo?

[Fragony]

No, he is actually doing illegal activities such as race discrimination just by discriminating against everyone with anything close to an Arabian sounding name.

lol Tribes, just because you never post a link doesn't mean you don't have them huh.

Ah well, hide your daughters Paris here I come

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Your point was that anti.fascists are limited to commies and anarchists(or that the majority are, or whatever)?

No. My point was that those people at the anti-fascist demostrations, the ones throwing the cocktails, being arrested, and attacking people are just as bad as the pro-fascists. It was also that the majority of us are anti-fascists, but the militant ones you see on TV are really no better than the fascists they oppose. Not all fascists are violent, by the way, however distasteful I, as a democrat, find their ideas.


How 'bout.... discriminating on the basis of having a tattoo?

I'm not opposed to that, I believe it is the decision of the business owner.

[HoreTore]

No. My point was that those people at the anti-fascist demostrations, the ones throwing the cocktails, being arrested, and attacking people are just as bad as the pro-fascists.

But then again, who cares about those people?

When referring to anti-fascists, it should be pretty obvious that you're referring to democrats.

[Kralizec]

Actually, it is illegal under the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.

So an employer doing such discrimination is breaking the law. Netherlands probably also has its own internal laws as well, which I could probably find quickly on google.

https://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9780/41510281.jpg

Direct discriminination during job applications is illegal. Indirect discrimination, i.e. demands that will lead to a disproportionately large amount of foreigners being rejected is sometimes permissable. For call center jobs, you can demand that the applicant has a good grasp of the Dutch language even if it leaves many immigrants in the cold.
OTOH rejecting all immigrants beforehand, even if you claim its because of language problems, is illegal.


Throwing employment applications in the bin is denying employment oppertunities , doing so on the basis that the names sound like they may belong to an ethnic/religious group you don't like is discrimination .
So how on earth you can write that in this case is really beyond belief .

Fragony said that it was an emotional outburst after Van Gogh's murder wich would be over 4 years ago, and I haven't seen him say anything of the sort after I started posting in the backroom. The fact that you're resorting to this to prove a point (especially Beskar who only knows about it because you told him) is laughable.

[Louis VI the Fat]

If you show up with a headscarf where I work I'll personally rip it off.

And Jews with skullcaps better stay well clear of me too. It hurts when I smack 'em off your head...



hehe :sneaky:

[Meneldil]

Hippies and democrats are intolerant?

I'm anti-fascist and I go on to beat up random dudes in the street on a weekly basis. We mostly attack homeless people, but we also assault poor immigrant workers, goth people, pregnant women and children.
I mean, it's well known afterall. All hatred crimes are caused by intolerant pacifist hippies leftists.

While we're at it, even radical anti-fascists (anarchists, communists) are not nearly as bad as true fascists. As far as I know, they don't attack homeless people, black people, goth teenagers, gay couples and so one. I've never heard of a policeman being beaten up by drunk radical leftists in western europe. The days of leftist-terrorism are over.

And people who destroy stuff and attack policemen during protests are not anti-fascists. They most of the time also attack the protesters. They don't have any ideology and are most of the time only there to cause trouble and get some fight. Congratulation for trying anyway.


Now, I would actually like to understand Fragony's theory, but unhappilly, it's Fragony, and I fear there's nothing to understand but a "fascist are bad but leftists are just as bad/even worse!!" good old rant. The assimilation of anything leftist with stalinism is just as laughable as the assimilation of the whole right-wing to fascism.


The BNP are indeed a group of nazis-wannabe. I don't mind the lot of them as long as they don't threaten other people. Each country has its own right-wing nationalist and racist nutjobs, and allowing them to have their own party is common sense.

But the day they threaten society or democracy, I hope they'll be met with fists and staves by these anti-fascist murderers.

[King Henry V]

But then again, who cares about those people?

When referring to anti-fascists, it should be pretty obvious that you're referring to democrats.

Those who most readily proclaim their stance as being "antifascist" are usually thosen of the militant variety. One may argue that their intentions are better than those of the actual fascist groups which exist, though personally I view the concept of "class struggle" just as abhorrent, intolerant and divisive as "race struggle" or what have you. However the antifa groups' methods are often on a par with fascist ones, and can quite easily be directed against any one whom they decide to brand as fascists, most notably the police.

And yes, they often are a bunch of workshy, vandalising, squatting, potheads.:yes:

[LittleGrizzly]

They both contain nutters who love violence... i would put the anti racists a few steps above the racists though... at least some of the anti racists are reasonable people...

I would think of it as less bad to beat up a bunch of people because they're racist rather than a bunch people because they're a different race...

Personally i would say theres a slight difference...

potheads.

At least they don't drink the vile liquid that turns men into violent children ~;)

Edit: I voted strongly agree, the terminology may nbot be quite right but it is fairly pointless being over accurate in our media soudbyte age, just got to get the basic message across.... which is what he did...

[King Henry V]

potheads.

At least they don't drink the vile liquid that turns men into violent children ~;)



“For art to exist, for any sort of aesthetic activity to exist, a certain physiological precondition is indispensable—intoxication.”

—Friedrich Nietzsche
:medievalcheers:

[Tribesman]

The fact that you're resorting to this to prove a point (especially Beskar who only knows about it because you told him) is laughable.
Resorting to what ? Using someone words :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Like I said if I wanted to complile a book of anti Muslim and anti immigrant rants I could compile it just out of frags posts and it would be a bloody big book.

Fragony said that it was an emotional outburst after Van Gogh's murder wich would be over 4 years ago
Yeah an emotional outburst, which he defended for quite a long time just like all his other fanciful flights wherethe muslims are out to get him
The really funny thing about the "emotional outburst"when he said he was getting together with his buddies to beat immigrants over the weekend is that it just happened to coincide with a nice friendly gathering in his location of the B&H crowd . Not of course suggesting that Frag would run with those neo-nazi muppets , but it was hilarious bad timing on his part.

[Tribesman]

I wonder about this racist/anti-racist thing .
It seem wierd that people are trying to compare the two . One is despising people because of thier ethnicity which they simply get at birth, the other is despising people for an ideology they have chosen.
Not really comparable are they

[Rhyfelwyr]

I wonder about this racist/anti-racist thing .
It seem wierd that people are trying to compare the two . One is despising people because of thier ethnicity which they simply get at birth, the other is despising people for an ideology they have chosen.
Not really comparable are they

Of course not.

Well, apart from racists being disadvantaged from birth by their lack of mental faculties, it's almost not PC to pick on them.

[Kralizec]

I wonder about this racist/anti-racist thing .
It seem wierd that people are trying to compare the two . One is despising people because of thier ethnicity which they simply get at birth, the other is despising people for an ideology they have chosen.
Not really comparable are they

You're shooting yourself in the foot here. You're not born with your religion either (wich is why certain branches of christianity only baptise once the subject can actually understand what it means), and insofar your parents have pressed it on you you're free to cast it off when you grow up.

But yeah, despising someone for the way they're born is disgusting whereas despising someone for the views they hold voluntarily is not necessarily disgusting. Using violence against either when they haven't done anything is wrong.


While we're at it, even radical anti-fascists (anarchists, communists) are not nearly as bad as true fascists. As far as I know, they don't attack homeless people, black people, goth teenagers, gay couples and so one. I've never heard of a policeman being beaten up by drunk radical leftists in western europe. The days of leftist-terrorism are over.

The animal liberation front is, at least nominally, an anarchist movement. It's just that animal rights take priority over everything else.

I've never heard of fascists squatting homes and booby trapping the place for the police, either.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

While we're at it, even radical anti-fascists (anarchists, communists) are not nearly as bad as true fascists. As far as I know, they don't attack homeless people, black people, goth teenagers, gay couples and so one.

No, they just terrorize the establishment as best they can and cause massive property damage.


I've never heard of a policeman being beaten up by drunk radical leftists in western europe.

True, I would say that they are usually high and not drunk.


And people who destroy stuff and attack policemen during protests are not anti-fascists. They most of the time also attack the protesters. They don't have any ideology and are most of the time only there to cause trouble and get some fight. Congratulation for trying anyway.

Right, they're never leftists...

Google. It is your friend.


Now, I would actually like to understand Fragony's theory, but unhappilly, it's Fragony, and I fear there's nothing to understand but a "fascist are bad but leftists are just as bad/even worse!!" good old rant. The assimilation of anything leftist with stalinism is just as laughable as the assimilation of the whole right-wing to fascism.

Stalinism? Not leftist? Do you consider Nazism right-wing? You do realize, Meneldil, that dismissing the "leftists are just as bad as fascists" argument (which you do far too quickly, as if it were accepted fact) and then immediately going out of your way to say that Stalinism wasn't on the left is ridiculous or hypocrisy?


I wonder about this racist/anti-racist thing .
It seem wierd that people are trying to compare the two . One is despising people because of thier ethnicity which they simply get at birth, the other is despising people for an ideology they have chosen.
Not really comparable are they

I think Krazliec's answer is the best. Not many people have a good opinion of fascists, but most of us don't have a good opinion of the hooligan "anti-fascists" in the riots we see.

Most of us here at the .Org are anti-fascists, just not in the same violent (and hypocritical) way.

[Wishazu]

Or all the anti-life stuff that goes on, disgusting.

Sorry mate, I`m not entirely sure what the point of this remark is.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Sorry mate, I`m not entirely sure what the point of this remark is.

You said that all of the anti-abortion things going on were disgusting. I said that all the anti-life things going on (abortion) were disgusting. I'm not trying to turn this into an abortion debate, but I think now you can see the point I was trying to make.

[Tristuskhan]

You said that all of the anti-abortion things going on were disgusting. I said that all the anti-life things going on (abortion) were disgusting. I'm not trying to turn this into an abortion debate, but I think now you can see the point I was trying to make.

Erh... a definitely off-topic point maybe?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Erh... a definitely off-topic point maybe?

I was responding to Wishazu's point, which states that pro-lifers are worse than the pro-abortion side.

[Tribesman]

You're shooting yourself in the foot here.
Errrrrr....read what was written:dizzy2:

[Rhyfelwyr]

To converge recent discussion with the topic at hand, I heard that the BNP are anti-abortion.

[Incongruous]

To converge recent discussion with the topic at hand, I heard that the BNP are anti-abortion.

Funny, I heard they were also anti-British...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Funny, I heard they were also anti-British...

They're also anti-intellectual, so I'm screwed.

OT: While they aren't technically Nazis at least A: Cameron made his point and B: He's not afraid to say it.

[Incongruous]

They're also anti-intellectual, so I'm screwed.



I don't doubt (the part about them being anti-intellectual...) but which policies do you believe make this so?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Funny, I heard they were also anti-British...

...

So, you are saying there are not anti-abortion?

Oh yeah, and one of their policies is to conquer Ireland, so Tribesman can join the party! :balloon2:

[Wishazu]

grrrr, posted but wanted to remove. will repost later

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't doubt (the part about them being anti-intellectual...) but which policies do you believe make this so?

Don't they have abook burning policy, destruction of Korans etc.

[Tribesman]

Oh yeah, and one of their policies is to conquer Ireland, so Tribesman can join the party!
Its so much nicer than their old policy of forcible deportation of all the Irish in Britain:2thumbsup:

[Incongruous]

...

So, you are saying there are not anti-abortion?


Uhh...

What?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Uhh...

What?

Well you said they were anti-British... I have no idea what you mean by that I thought you were saying "yeah they're about as anti-abortion as they are anti-British", which I thought to be sarcasm since they called themselves British nationalists.

[Scurvy]

I believe the BNP are officially Pro-Life, there was a story a while ago about them wanting to appeal to the Catholic vote. :laugh4:

[Rhyfelwyr]

I believe the BNP are officially Pro-Life, there was a story a while ago about them wanting to appeal to the Catholic vote. :laugh4:

Yeah that's it. The thing is, they are also anti-Irish, and since Scottish Catholics identify themselves as Irish, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

[Fragony]

Not of course suggesting that Frag would run with those neo-nazi muppets , but it was hilarious bad timing on his part.

I'll just take that as a cautious nod towards me not being what you insist me to be, nicest thing you ever said to me really.

[Tribesman]

I'll just take that as a cautious nod towards me not being what you insist me to be
Frag if I insisted you was a neo-Nazi muppet I would call you a neo-nazi muppet .
however if you posted views that seemed identical to those of the neo-nazi muppets I might just make a post saying your views sound like they belong to a neo-nazi muppet

[Incongruous]

Well you said they were anti-British... I have no idea what you mean by that I thought you were saying "yeah they're about as anti-abortion as they are anti-British", which I thought to be sarcasm since they called themselves British nationalists.

Their policies to me look anti-British in both spirit and structure, I was not being sarcastic.

[Fragony]

Frag if I insisted you was a neo-Nazi muppet I would call you a neo-nazi muppet .
however if you posted views that seemed identical to those of the neo-nazi muppets I might just make a post saying your views sound like they belong to a neo-nazi muppet

To be fair I was quite close at the time, but I would apreciate it if you would let it rest. Not a post I am very proud about.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

This seems appropriate. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhdVuY7WkqY)

[Beskar]

This seems appropriate. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhdVuY7WkqY)

Is that just a Metal music playing to a picture with a big cross on saying "No to the NPD and No to the Antifascists". Just wondering.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Is that just a Metal music playing to a picture with a big cross on saying "No to the NPD and No to the Antifascists". Just wondering.

Translate (or Google, I suppose) the lyrics. ~;)