Beating drug addicts as a therapy

[Sarmatian]

Not overly known outside but it is a story that shook up Serbia pretty hard in the recent days. Newspapers got their hands on the video from a drug rehabilitation center in Crna Reka - the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etEGO2e9At8) shows heavy beating of drug addict by the employees. WARNING - the video is rather brutal)

The center in Crna Reka is where the worst cases get sent and to make matters worse, it is established and run by Serbian Orthodox Church. It has got a great record of rehabilitation, even for extreme cases.

What is interesting is that the Church didn't try to protect or cover up the story but immediately fired (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8070828.stm) the priest in charge and declared it would take measures within the church, independently of secular authorities, which are also going to create an investigation.

Branislav Peranovic, the priest in charge, I think his title translates to roughly to position below Bishop, didn't deny any of this and has defended and is still defending his actions saying they "were necessary".

To make things even more interesting, Branislav Peranovic's methods were defended (http://www.javno.com/en-world/rehabilitated-addicts--thank-you-for-beatings_260147) by the cured (and those still in the process) drug addicts, many of them claiming they are owing their lives to him. They've said such heavy beating were only in a case when they've succeed to smuggle drugs in and are caught with it...

Church takes immediate actions, and "victims" defend their tormentor... What do you think about it? Is beating justified for a "greater good"... That center has much better results than conventional rehabilitation centers and has to deal with the cases that are pretty much written off...

[pevergreen]

Im torn between it being wrong and if it works, its worth it.

[Reverend Joe]

That seems like a really bad idea; I'm surprised the addicts don't usually revert fairly quickly, as their cause for not doing drugs -- physical assault -- would be removed.

Then again, it might be a Pavlovian effect, but in that case there would be much better methods to apply Pavlov to. I hate to say it, but one would be a bit similar to "Clockwork Orange;" only instead of directly regulating behavior, the subject would be repeatedly dosed with their drug(s) of choice in tandem with a terrible nausea/pain-inducing drug (as in the book) until they were incapable of using the drug without automatically getting sick. It would be more effective than beatings, and (hopefully) it would be voluntary.

[Sarmatian]

That seems like a really bad idea; I'm surprised the addicts don't usually revert fairly quickly, as their cause for not doing drugs -- physical assault -- would be removed.

Then again, it might be a Pavlovian effect, but in that case there would be much better methods to apply Pavlov to. I hate to say it, but one would be a bit similar to "Clockwork Orange;" only instead of directly regulating behavior, the subject would be repeatedly dosed with their drug(s) of choice in tandem with a terrible nausea/pain-inducing drug (as in the book) until they were incapable of using the drug without automatically getting sick. It would be more effective than beatings, and (hopefully) it would be voluntary.

The beatings are voluntary, addicts have to sign a statement that they will submit to any punishment, even beatings and their family know about (if they have any). Beatings are rare and performed only in extreme cases. The point really is that most, didn't revert back to drugs. One of people defending Peranovic on TV was a guy who used to be a heavy addict, now has a steady job, is happily married and has three kids...

[Reverend Joe]

The beatings are voluntary, addicts have to sign a statement that they will submit to any punishment, even beatings and their family know about (if they have any). Beatings are rare and performed only in extreme cases. The point really is that most, didn't revert back to drugs. One of people defending Peranovic on TV was a guy who used to be a heavy addict, now has a steady job, is happily married and has three kids...

Well, if it's voluntary and the addicts are aware of the extremes involved (i.e. it isn't slipped in through fine print) there isn't a problem. If you sign up to be subjected to such treatment in the hopes of it making you better, the responsibility lies with you alone, not the beaters.

[pevergreen]

The beatings are voluntary, addicts have to sign a statement that they will submit to any punishment, even beatings and their family know about (if they have any).
Then I wholeheartedly agree with this method.

[tibilicus]

So what is this then? Some sort of primitive form of classical conditioning?


Can't say I agree myself, any one who's studied even a little bit of psychology here will know that there's plenty of other ways to condition people..

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Nothing like a good slap in the wrists for being a bad boy! The oldest, and most effective, method.

[Kadagar_AV]

whatever works, works...

I could share a story of what my family did to get a relative to quit his habit. However, it is too late and I am too drunk.

Anyway, "for the greater good" can hold true.

i'll share the story next time I log on:)

[CountArach]

What a moronic idea...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Any data on the facilities recidivism rates? If they're doing horrific things for little gain, it answers the question pretty quickly. Only examples so far are anecdotal.

[Fragony]

I am somewhat sceptical about the real motivations for these beatings, I don't think it has anything to do with rehab and everything with lunatics running the asylum.

[Sarmatian]

Just to clarify things, I've realized by reading it now that the title may be misleading, that the beatings are a part of the therapy or that they are the therapy - they're not, they're just the most severe form of punishment when addicts are caught with drugs and not applied in 90% of the cases. There's a proper therapy besides, of course...


Any data on the facilities recidivism rates? If they're doing horrific things for little gain, it answers the question pretty quickly. Only examples so far are anecdotal.

According to themselves (http://dailynewsmn.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/reakcija-iz-rehabilitacionog-centra-crna-reka/)(in serbian, sorry), they're successful in 30-40% of the cases. World's Health Organization state that globally only 5% of addicts manage to get clean, according to the same statement, I've haven't checked that...

[rory_20_uk]

There is a very important difference between alcohol dependency and opiate dependency.

If you suddenly detox from the first you can die from it due to uncontrolled fitting.
If you suddenly deto from the second you might feel like hammered stool you will not die.

So in the first instance there does need to be a replacement with benzodiazepines to stop fitting which are in turn withdrawn over time.
The second, well lock them in a room with a bowl, a bucket and a supply of food and they'll get through it. No need to beat them as well.

~:smoking:

[Kralizec]

Locking them up will only remove the physical dependance. Compare smokers: nicotine withdrawl symptons are gone in a couple of days. Yet many quitters return to cigarettes after a couple of weeks, months or even years.

Being clean when you leave a clinic means nothing. The real test is wether you can resist the temptation of buying more drugs once you have the opportunity, and that's no garantue for the future either.

One of the more interesting "cures" for addiction that I've heard of is a medicine that causes severe nausea if the patient drinks alcohol. Even then the more determined alcoholics just keep on drinking, sometimes till death...

[rory_20_uk]

Oh, it's commonly used. Called antabuse or Disulfiram. ink cap mushrooms have the same affect.

As you say there is a physical and psychological component. One hopes that they have the strength of will after the physical addiction has lifted.

~:smoking:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Just to clarify things, I've realized by reading it now that the title may be misleading, that the beatings are a part of the therapy or that they are the therapy - they're not, they're just the most severe form of punishment when addicts are caught with drugs and not applied in 90% of the cases. There's a proper therapy besides, of course...



According to themselves (http://dailynewsmn.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/reakcija-iz-rehabilitacionog-centra-crna-reka/)(in serbian, sorry), they're successful in 30-40% of the cases. World's Health Organization state that globally only 5% of addicts manage to get clean, according to the same statement, I've haven't checked that...

If true, that's huge as the average is about 5% for a "5-years later and still clean" measure. I'm skeptical without some clear documentation, of course, but if they CAN document this then their overall approach needs to be used to "school" other such efforts.

Corporal punishment is an "oldie" in terms of behavior modification, but many are skeptical of such a tool.

[Fragony]

Oh, it's commonly used. Called antabuse or Disulfiram. ink cap mushrooms have the same affect.

As you say there is a physical and psychological component. One hopes that they have the strength of will after the physical addiction has lifted.

~:smoking:

Have a little bit of experience there from my young and stupid years. The key is to move somewhere else. You don't need to kill the need for drugs, just the enviroment you associate drugs with. If you don't it will always be with you.

[InsaneApache]

There is a very important difference between alcohol dependency and opiate dependency.

If you suddenly detox from the first you can die from it due to uncontrolled fitting.
If you suddenly deto from the second you might feel like hammered stool you will not die.

So in the first instance there does need to be a replacement with benzodiazepines to stop fitting which are in turn withdrawn over time.
The second, well lock them in a room with a bowl, a bucket and a supply of food and they'll get through it. No need to beat them as well.

~:smoking:

This is true. It's often overlooked how dangerous alcohol addiction is. I had a close colleague die of a heart attack from alcoholism over twenty years ago. He was a lovely, witty and intelligent chap and I often think about him. He'd not had a drink for years, then he got promoted and fell off the wagon. He was dead within three months.

Benzodiazepines of course have their own horror stories. Probably the worst of all the drugs to get off.

As for the topic, words fail me. I've never seen anything like that in my life. Beating drug addicts? ~:confused: What do they do to theives then? :inquisitive:

[Husar]

I like it. :2thumbsup:

The kicks in the face were a bit over the top perhaps but they started out very well. ~D
Generally kicking someone in the head seems a bit dangerous to me, they could break some fingers instead for example.

[rory_20_uk]

Benzodiazepines are like smarties compared to barbiturates.

~:smoking:

[InsaneApache]

Really?

I have a family member who's been getting off valium and then librium for over 20 years. She's still on a maintenance dose and is likely to be so for the rest of her life. I still vividly remember her fitting when the hospital dropped her dosage too fast. Very ugly.

They gave them out like smarties in the 70s.

[Beskar]

Stockholme Syndrome.

Though, in theory, if you sign up for a course of beatings to be cured, you are walking in knowing full-well what you are getting into so morally speaking, it isn't that wrong of the church is that is the case.

[rory_20_uk]

Really?

I have a family member who's been getting off valium and then librium for over 20 years. She's still on a maintenance dose and is likely to be so for the rest of her life. I still vividly remember her fitting when the hospital dropped her dosage too fast. Very ugly.

They gave them out like smarties in the 70s.

The "good" thing about them is that it's difficult to take a lethal overdose, whereas barbiturates it's laughably easy.

The number of elderly I've seen on them long term is legion. There's not much point trying to get them off 'em as it'd take longer than they've got left, and for what? What worries me is when I had a carer who wanted my to prescribe them as a matter of course - chemical restraint basically. When I asked her why she seemed confused that I'd ask the question.

~:smoking:

[Rhyfelwyr]

If it works, and they are consenting, then there's no problem.

[Mooks]

Im guessing the point is to attach the feeling of pain to the drug. IE: Anytime they smuggle/use the drug outside of the clinic they remember the sensation of getting pummeled mercilessly. I guess it could work.

[drone]

Short story Quitters Inc. in the book Night Shift, by Stephen King. The only way to break an addiction.