Why Hayasdan always go for the Steppes?

[Marcus Ulpius]

I've played quite a lot of campaigns and without any exception Hayasdan are always trying to get to the Sauros, and then are getting lost in the endless steppes. They totally neglect the southern direction and that breaks their expansion. They never expand beyond their homeland and spend all the time fighting the Sauros for a couple of nearest steppe towns.

In my current Romani campaign it's already late to do anything, but for the future campaigns, is there way to make them interested in the Persian regions, and go where they actually should go - southwards to revive the Persian Empire?

[penguinking]

The reason Hayasdan always goes for the steppe is that they start out at war the the Saurometae. The AI is programmed to target settlements in roughly this order:

1) provinces of factions they are at war with
2) rebel provinces
3) other provinces

So Hayasdan usually targets Saurometae settlements. As to how to fix this, I can't help very much. I usually just give the Saurometae money to help them fight Hayasdan off, but I've never been able to get Hayasdan to expand southward very much.

[Darius]

The path of least resistance, it's the AI way.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

RTW AI likes to expand north first, then clockwise around their starting position.

[anubis88]

In my current AS campaign Hayasdan got almost destroyed by the Sauromatae, but managed to stay alive, and are now expanding only south and west, leaving the steppes alone. They now attacked sinope and amaseia, and have build for them a pretty decent empire

[Aemilius Paulus]

RTW AI likes to expand north first, then clockwise around their starting position.
Wow, that is fascinating. But how do you know?

[||Lz3||]

Wow, that is fascinating. But how do you know?

Experience?

[Aemilius Paulus]

Experience?
Oh, come on, it is evident that mere personal experience with something as unpredictable, varied, and illogical as AI cannot be accurately assessed from mere personal experience. Now, if MAA has actually heard CA state so, or looked into the files with the AI behaviour written out, then that is what I cal evidence.

In any case, his statement of North and clockwise is much too generalised to be a result of experience, or so I hope. Various nations take on different routes.

[d'Arthez]

Apparently, extremely extensive testing of the RTW engine had resulted in MAA's conclusion.

It is actually one of the things that popped up time and again; I actually proposed at one point (probably the .8x progression thread) to invert North and South on the map to see if AI would improve its behavior substantially.

There might be a thread on this issue on the .org, specifically in the section dealing with game mechanics.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I heard that from someone testing the RTW engine many years back when modding of the engine was just beginning. I don't remember who, or where I saw it, so I can't prove it. It seems to be the case from my experience though.

[Chris1959]

Forced diplomacy is an option though using a lot can cause CTD's.
You could try an add on mod, I use Lz13's mod pack which has a changed Victory Conditions for the AI. I've only run one Romani campaign on the 1.2 vwrsion and I'm at 25BC waiting on Imperial reforms and it has been very, very stable.
I've hardly used Forced Diplomacy at all. Best AI faction were Pontus! I gave them and Hai a lot of money in gifts and Pontus took the AS apart and practically recreated the old Persian Empire.
If the inevitable clash with Rome hadn't taken place who knows! Even still easy of the Tigris it's Pontus and Parthia. Also the Ptolies took a very long time before they tried to expand West.

[Sarkiss]

try Extended realism mod. by different means they managed quite well to direct Armenian AI south rather than north
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=766

[Atraphoenix]

in one of my last camp. I saved them from extinction that AS was besieging their last city.
So it is logical for hayasdan to move north than to south. Early war between hayasdan and AS normally ends with AS victory.

[Marcus Ulpius]

in one of my last camp. I saved them from extinction that AS was besieging their last city.
So it is logical for hayasdan to move north than to south. Early war between hayasdan and AS normally ends with AS victory.

I don't think it's logical considering their background. Surely, they can grab a rebel settlement or two, but the kind of extensive northern campaign for north-eastern Black Sea towns is not something Hayasdan should be interested in. As for the war against the AS, the success of it depends not only on Hayasdan. And the same can be said also about Pontos and Pahlava. If the Ptolies are successful in their campaign and those small factions make even minimal advances, then some of them have a good chance of building a nice empire. If the Ptolies are pushed back and AS can relocate some troops, not many of them will survive that war.

In my current Romani campaign Pahlava were pushed back, Pontos lost Ankyra to AS just after taking it. The Ptolies lost Alexandria. AS were ready to swallow any opposition, but the entrance of Saba and my monetary help to Pahlava changed the direction of the war (at least it seems that way now). AS are being attacked in Asia Minor by Pontos, KH and the Ptolies from their last city in the region. The Ptolies have regained Alexandria and Syria was cut off from core AS lands by Saba. At the same time, Pahlava survived initial onslaught and are starting to gain territory. Now the prospects of Pontos and Pahlava look much better, and the reason - Ptolemaic success in Egypt and surprising Saba attack on Antioch. It proves that the secret of defeating AS for small AI factions is in the successful collective efforts and, most important - strong Ptolemaic pressure from the South.

[Atraphoenix]

I never met an aggressive Ptolemy against AS, in fact this may be the reason I usually play with the factions that are neighbours of AS. BTW monetary motivation kills AI, without any FD or money support, AS in the east getai or Epirot (in fact sometimes they both :dizzy2:) dominates the game.
Baktria is quite happy to conquer rebel india, and getai mostly push back sarmatians, Romani quite passive, though in fact as the game CTD after hours, and the AI strategy resets itself after restart.
so Is a fortunetelling how the campaign will be...

[Marcus Ulpius]

I saw mostly Yellow Death in 1.1, but I see more and more Grey Death in 1.2. I don't know what was tweaked, but more often than not AS manage to defend Antioch , push the Ptolies out of Asia Minor and Syria and go for Egypt proper. When this happens (and sometimes it doesn't take them too much time to do that) all the small factions nearby are doomed, we have AS from Asia Minor to Lower Egypt to India.