Stainless Steel 6.2 Hotseat - Dogs of War (completed, winner Nightbringer)

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ppa71i

Roman allies are up!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sicily is up

http://www.mediafire.com/file/b8423vk2k34ztwa/DoW-35-Sicily.sav

[slysnake]

South-east of England is actually a relatively hilly part of England - I actually live on the top of a hill, so I get the full force of any weather the rest of the area gets :/

[phonicsmonkey]

South-east of England is actually a relatively hilly part of England - I actually live on the top of a hill, so I get the full force of any weather the rest of the area gets :/

Where do you live? I'm from Worthing.

[slysnake]

Worthing? Ah, thats south coast :) I live in Gillingham, Kent.

[Balthor]

Hello,

Turks (http://www.sendspace.com/file/mz269r) next.

Should I send the PM to who?

*salute*

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm hoping Zim will play as the turks - I'll send him a pm to find out

[Visor]

If Zim says no, I asked Swarbs if he wanted to play, so if Zim doesn't want to, Swarbs might.

[phonicsmonkey]

Awesome, thanks Visor

[phonicsmonkey]

Good news! Zim said yes (but we'll have to a wait a day for him.)

[Zim]

Egypt

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=5292

[Visor]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/bjqrm2

Danes.

[nicuurs]

Hungary's (http://www.sendspace.com/file/5yufkk) turn.

Good luck.

[phonicsmonkey]

Castile (http://www.mediafire.com/?cduusw2a1e5m3zj)

[SilverShield]

sorry for the delay. been kinda busy

kiev up
http://depositfiles.com/files/cgmvx7mcf

[Nightbringer]

england!
http://www.sendspace.com/file/vxawys

[slysnake]

Pizza's Up

http://www.sendspace.com/file/k97xrg

[Askthepizzaguy]

There's going to be a delay for my turn until I have the GM look at something.

On a personal note, I'm about ready to walk out of this game.

[phonicsmonkey]

EDIT: nothing to see here

[Askthepizzaguy]

Edit: Private matter.

[Kagemusha]

As GH is offline and this thing has been brought to my intention.I am moving the posts to a relevant thread where GH can check them when he is available.

- Kagemusha

[Askthepizzaguy]

I request a 24-hour extension to my turn. I'm not in a state of mind where I can play this right now.

[phonicsmonkey]

yeah sure, let's hold the game until we resolve this

[Visor]

??? Can someone explain to me via PM what happened?

[SilverShield]

hard to believe im wasting my precious time on sh like that. i only do this because i respect Phonics as the host of this game. so here is the pic

https://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx315/PARTYEVERYDAYYEA/england.jpg

[phonicsmonkey]

Hi everyone,

We had an issue which I hope is now resolved and which there is no need to go into detail about. Let's continue the game.

Silver, could you please remove your above post?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Then I hereby concede defeat.

Good game.

I have asked slysnake to sub for me, and I will bow out gracefully.

Well done.

[slysnake]

I will be subbing Askthepizzaguy until a suitable replacement has been found.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I also wish to apologize for the bother, everyone. My mistake.


It's been brought to my attention that I have been beaten using an apparently well-known tactic (That I am not aware of, as I haven't played hotseats in a while before I joined this one)

You can defeat massive armies inside forts using only one unit of cavalry using an exploit against the AI.

As such, I was always at a disadvantage because I was unaware of this (legal) exploit. According to the rules of this game, that exploit is legal.

That is how it was done, I am told. The damage is done, and that's that.

[slysnake]

Thanatos, your turn is up.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/gwzj5v

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Hey, sly can you try reuploading the file or something. This one doesn't show up when I try to open it in the game.

[phonicsmonkey]

I also wish to apologize for the bother, everyone. My mistake.


It's been brought to my attention that I have been beaten using an apparently well-known tactic (That I am not aware of, as I haven't played hotseats in a while before I joined this one)

You can defeat massive armies inside forts using only one unit of cavalry using an exploit against the AI.

As such, I was always at a disadvantage because I was unaware of this (legal) exploit. According to the rules of this game, that exploit is legal.

That is how it was done, I am told. The damage is done, and that's that.

I'm sorry, but for the record this was achieved with skill on the battle map and not with an exploit. ATPG was mistaken when he wrote this post and I hope he now withdraws it.

[phonicsmonkey]

slysnake, do you want to take over as a combined France / England? The way ATPG paints it it doesn't seem like France is viable for a new player to take over...what do you think?

[Nightbringer]

I'm sorry, but for the record this was achieved with skill on the battle map and not with an exploit. ATPG was mistaken when he wrote this post and I hope he now withdraws it.

I don't know whether this happened or not, but it is an exploit that is fairly easy to do, and I think it would be in the best interest of the game if we did ban it from this point on.

[phonicsmonkey]

I don't know whether this happened or not, but it is an exploit that is fairly easy to do, and I think it would be in the best interest of the game if we did ban it from this point on.

Could you please be more specific about precisely what you consider an exploit? I'm always happy to consider a rule change if there is a majority opinion behind it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Could you please be more specific about precisely what you consider an exploit? I'm always happy to consider a rule change if there is a majority opinion behind it.

In response to this, and what PM told me privately, I will clarify:

What happened isn't *precisely* how I stated it, because I was unaware of a key detail. The bulk of the point remains the same.



Here's the scenario, and the proposed solution:


1. You can make the AI chase your general/light cavalry in any situation, even if they are packed tightly inside a fortified settlement or fortress, as long as you open the gates somehow.
2. You can make them chase you until they are all completely exhausted.
3. You can then kill the general (easy enough when the general moves way out ahead of all infantry when it chases you because it is faster) using javelins, crossbows, or just plain charging into it with a fresh unit.
4. All units in play, if they are exhausted and have lost their general, fight worse than unarmored peasants. Simply charge a single unit of heavy cavalry into them, and they will flee.
5. This will happen in all situations, because the AI doesn't know how to not chase you. Any battle, in fort, out of fort, anywhere, you can get them to chase you regardless, if in a fort just open the gates.

Now, this is a clear exploit of the AI, in much the same way that using a single unit of light cavalry to lay seige to a settlement in single-player mode, causes the AI to sally, chase you around, and then you rush back and hold the settlement for 3 minutes.

Admittedly, this is slightly more fair than that, because you actually have to trigger routing of all the units involved. But that's easy, just add another unit of cavalry.

It's the same exploit, plus one unit, triggering a mass rout of the best armies in the game with just a couple units of cavalry. In this case, cavalry with missiles are even better because they can also kill your general in the process of doing this.



So, my proposed solution:


Any army inside a settlement or fort cannot be lured out and exhausted before a battle in this manner. You may lure them out, but you must fight them normally, without forcing them to give chase to you and tire themselves out first.


How can this be enforced?

Honor among players, and there is the obvious.... I didn't even consider this as an option when my armies disappeared, but I knew something was out of the ordinary.

You will know it happened to you. No general is that good. No army on earth is that good. It weighs the battle in your favor by a factor of at least ten to one due to what it does to the opposing army. It cannot be duplicated or even approached, by a long-shot, by any other tactic in the game. Nothing is more destructive to the AI than this tactic. No amount of genius and hard effort can reproduce this kind of results. The only thing that can match this is this.

So, in order for you to fight on a level playing field, you must also use this tactic in every battle you fight against the enemy. Which is a game-changer. Do you all want to fight every single battle this way from now on, in every situation?

Isn't that.... boring?

It's the same AI bug exploit over and over, I'd argue. How much fun are you really having, and isn't that the point of this game?


Hey, I didn't think of this and I didn't use it in any other hotseat game and I've never personally encountered it before. Phonics tells me it's rather common.

Some others I spoke to have never heard of it. Phonics asked me if I'd be willing to make a suggestion to amend the rules to counter it, and then everyone votes on it, so here it is, and feel free to modify it to your purposes:


Any army inside a settlement or fort cannot be led out of the settlement and exhausted before a battle in this manner. You may lure them out, but you must fight them normally, without forcing them to give chase to you and tire themselves out first.


In short, do not abuse the AI's single-minded chasing script to totally exhaust your enemy before actually fighting them.

And, I'd even offer a limitation on that rule:


This is limited only to battles where the AI is on defense, inside a fort or settlement. If the AI is out in the open field, have at it (if you want to).


That way, the dumb AI can be exploited for being dumb while it is wandering around aimlessly. You have to cover yourself with a fort to allow the invocation of this rule.

I still think it's exploitative and boring to play that way. Several players have told me that playing that way would be totally boring. Just like some players told me, when I was "blitzmaster" that blitzing/exploiting the crusade bug was boring.

And I agree, if we play hotseats, exploiting the crusade bug just ruins the game. Just like the merchant fort exploit. Just like taking a settlement and holding it for three minutes using only 1 light cavalry is an exploit. Just like so many other things have been found through innovation, and promptly banned because they were a game-changer.


I argue that this abuse of the battle AI where you can ALWAYS force them to rout (even when they were supposed to be defending themselves inside a fort) due to exhaustion, is a game-changer.

Maybe I'm a little slow, but again, I haven't been playing these hotseats for a while before I joined this one. This is news to me.

You can keep it, you can ban it in future games, you can ban it now, it makes no difference to me.

I will say categorically I have never used this tactic against a human player and will never use this tactic against a human player, because of how boring and exploitative it is.

That said, I cannot and DO NOT begrudge anyone for:


coming up with the idea
using the idea
using it in hotseats where it is legal
using it in hotseats before the exploit was known.


Some of the best of us have come up with ideas. Myself and Tristan came up with (or at least made known to the org) the settlement exchange exploit where you can get free infantry and archers just by trading settlements back and forth. We came up with it accidentally no less, and still used it to our advantage to prolong a losing war.

So hey, I got beat legally using a legal tactic. And until proven otherwise, it's also a fair tactic. So yes I'll retract that.

I won't consider it a fair tactic in the future, and I personally won't join games where it's allowed or host games where it is legal. That's just me. The rest of you, my friends, can play as you wish.

That's my suggestion and my commentary. I will abstain from voting as I have already dropped from this game because my situation is beyond repair due to the above (fair and legal) exploit.

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm just going to make a couple of points on this before I hand it over to everyone else to debate.

I still don't think you understand what's happening here. You don't have to do any luring at all. The only reason you need spies to 'open the gates' or siege engines is so you can get a battle on the battle map. If the AI thinks it is overwhelmingly in the advantage it will sally out. All you need to do is stand there while it runs towards you. Then you can charge it repeatedly until it routs. You don't really even need to tire it out, that just makes it easier to do.

So are you saying you aren't allowed to let the AI come to you? How do you stop it? Are you not allowed to stand a long way away from it? How far away are you allowed to stand? How much are you allowed to move around when it attacks you? And how on earth would a poor GM enforce any of this?

So maybe the only way to formulate this rule is that you aren't allowed to assault a city or fort unless you have a certain ratio of strength to the defenders (so that the AI won't exit the gates when you assault).

But if that's the case and you do besiege a fort or city but you can't assault it then what happens on the defender's turn when they can sally out with a single unit of cavalry, destroy all your siege equipment and rout your army with the exact same trick? Is that fair?

Do you then ban sallies? Or does this make sieges impossible and thereby ruin hotseats with fought battles altogether?

This needs more thought in my opinion and I wouldn't vote in favour of a rule in the form proposed.

EDIT: however as GM I don't have a vote unless we need a tie-breaker. So have at it!

[Askthepizzaguy]

So maybe the only way to formulate this rule is that you aren't allowed to assault a city or fort unless you have a certain ratio of strength to the defenders (so that the AI won't exit the gates when you assault).

Define the terms a bit, and I think you have a solution.

Laying seige to a city or fort, perfectly legal anytime. Assaulting it to take the fort is a different animal. If you are going to assault it, you must have enough forces not to provoke a sally.

You'll know, because if you're attacking a fort or settlement with a large garrison with minimal forces and trying to take it on the same turn, there's only one reason you're attempting to do so: to rout it through the exhaustion exploit.

I wouldn't even mind if the player in question charges the sallying forces just as they exit the settlement, taking advantage of the bottleneck. Go for it, that's fine. The AI is at full strength, morale, and stamina then. That's a legitimate tactic.

If the AI has exhausted itself through actual battle, that's also fine.

The issue is the deliberate chase. The only way to enforce it would be to ban those types of assaults, where your forces are much "weaker" than the enemy, but you're still vastly superior because of a bug. So, no assaults on settlements if the AI sallies out at you on its own (thus showing you're much "weaker" than the AI strength-wise).

Which leads to point two:


But if that's the case then what happens on the defender's turn when they can sally out with a single unit of cavalry, destroy all your siege equipment and rout your army with the exact same trick?

For the attacker, with regards to siege equipment protection (which is a problem regardless of the above chase-to-exhaustion exploit) the avoidance of this is to make the assault on the first turn, with spies/artillery, or if they must lay siege, bring the kinds of forces which automatically attack anyone trying to destroy the siege equipment (like archers and cavalry). You can't get in range of the equipment without also taking casualties. And, it's a realistic tactic, to sally to remove siege equipment, then try to sneak back inside.

For the defender's part, if they can lure the AI away from the siege equipment and destroy it before the AI gets back, and scurry back inside the walls, then the purpose of that battle was to destroy siege equipment, not destroy the AI in combat, because there's no need to worry about siege equipment if the attacking army is gone.

The situation is also a bit different here, because here, the defender is not protected by walls, and if the army is being harassed by skirmishers and horse archers and can't simply outgun them, then they either have to stand there and get pulverized or give chase.

Whereas, the defense force in the other example could, even if the walls have fallen, choose to stay inside the walls where they can make a stand, and get exhausted through actual fighting. But due to the known AI bug, the AI doesn't have that option, and because of the chase exploit that's what it should do; even if it was getting pasted by archers and cannons, they would do better this way than if they were chasing a light cavalry unit fruitlessly.

The defender, inside walls, should be afforded the advantages the walls give them, in spite of the AI being bugged to give chase in that situation. Abusing the AI as stated in the first example is specifically removing the right of the defender to stand where they are and actually use the walls they have as a defense.

The defender is already on unequal footing with the attacker, because the attacker is human and the defender is always AI. Being inside a fort or settlement should provide a player a "safe haven" from the chase-until-exhaustion exploit. Walls should mean something.

I'll note that doing this chase technique in open field battles seems legal or at least unenforceable. There are situations in the open field where that's the entire point of your army: Example, horse archers.

They fire on you and stay out of range, often times dividing and exhausting your armies. Because you have no walls, you have no place to hide from that. That's where missile cavalry and light cavalry have a more realistic advantage. Trying to take a fort or settlement, they don't have that kind of advantage. Or, they wouldn't, except for the bug in the AI's behavior, which leads to it being an open field battle anyway.


The primary point of the proposed rule is simply to restore a bit of realism and fighting effectiveness to the defender, who can choose to make his stand inside walls or outside of walls, but because of this bug, making his stand inside of walls is no more effective than making his stand outside of walls.

The defender already has to rely on the AI's poor substitute for human tactics, giving the attacker the advantage. The point of the rule is to restore walls as being something to actually worry about.

Without walls, okay, it's a wild and dangerous world out there and the cavalry gonna getcha, and we all know that. But inside walls, cavalry aren't supposed to have that advantage, and with this bug in the AI, there is no such thing as "inside walls" anymore. Even if the rule only applies to the defender inside walls, that still restores a bit of the "defender" to this game, where the deck is already stacked against the defender due to the AI being so bad.

And because everyone in the game is both an attacker and a defender at times, there is still balance.

As it stands, because all players can abuse the bug, it is technically balanced, yes. But as balanced as it is, it's still unrealistic in the extreme, removing one effective means of defense too many from an already lopsided system which favors the attacker.

If you want to have more realistic/fun battles restored to the game, (in my opinion) you have to limit the exploit. The rule, if applied even just to the defenders inside forts/walls, still greatly limits the effectiveness of the exploit, and critically, in the situation where the defender is already at an unrealistic disadvantage due to lousy AI.

It doesn't have to ruin horse archer battles in the field, it doesn't have to ruin the rest of the game, it can be a rule that only applies to the defenders inside walls, for specifically the reason that you shouldn't handicap the fighting ability of fast units in the field. It's just that they should have a handicap in siege assault situations and right now, they don't, and unrealistically so.

Is it a perfect solution? No, because it still allows for that kind of thing outside of settlements. But if you're being dominated by cavalry out in the field, that still makes more sense, and you're not protected by walls.

In much the same way some might think removing crusades entirely is too much of a fix to the crusade exploit, trying to apply this rule outside of wall defense situations might be an overreach as well. So, just a limitation and for a specific situation, is the proposal.



In summary, TL;DR:

New rule should be:

Laying seige to a city or fort, perfectly legal anytime. Assaulting it to take the fort is a different animal. If you are going to assault it, you must have enough forces not to provoke a sally due to the chase-to-exhaustion bug exploit.

Out in the open field, however, the rule won't apply because there's no hiding from cavalry in the open field. In fact, to enforce the rule there, you'd have to come up with some pretty bizarre ideas other than just taking someone's word for it that they won't abuse the chase-to-exhaust bug.

In my opinion, your original idea is actually far more sound than you think. Applying the rule "you can only assault a fort or settlement IF the AI won't sally out due to your inferior forces" is not only enforceable, self-consistent within these parameters, but also restores a bit of power to the defender inside walls.

Even if it doesn't cover what happens in the field, that's still a way for the defender to protect themselves outside of their active turn. I say it is better than not having that rule.

I'd certainly vote for that rule as it makes sense to me, and I'd even use it in future games I host. I like it.

Does it totally restore the game to a 100% realistic state? No. But it restores half of the game to a realistic state. And that is indeed worth preserving through a simple, enforceable rule.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I personally don't like battle like that because it takes away the fun of the game for me. If you spend all your effort and time manipulating the ai it just make the game boring. In my opinion it cheapens the spirit of the game, but then I don't play it to win; I just like to have fun and do my empire proud. If in that course winning becomes an option, then I'll go for it ;)

In the end though, it just has to do with the stupidity of the ai. The only really reasonable solutions are play auto-resolve or adjust tactics: like defending key forts with spies or keeping superior armies unfortified, I guess

[Askthepizzaguy]

The only really reasonable solutions are play auto-resolve or adjust tactics: like defending key forts with spies or keeping superior armies unfortified, I guess

What is your opinion on the proposed rule tweak?

[slysnake]

slysnake, do you want to take over as a combined France / England? The way ATPG paints it it doesn't seem like France is viable for a new player to take over...what do you think?

Hey man, yeah sure. It will be the best thing for now, even though I myself am pretty clueless as to how to resolve the in-game problems; anyhow, I shall percieve and play ^_^

And Thanatos, I think I may have had an issue when saving, so I am going to have to request a 12 hour extension if that is ok with everyone. I know we have just had a 24 hour extension, but ATPG has left fairly recently - I didn't know I would be subbing/replacing.

Hope you all understand, and thanks in advance.



And a note to ATPG: You are a great player and we will all miss you in this hotseat :) (well, maybe not some, but anyhow..)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I didn't see your post till after I posted, but I'm going to have to look at it in the morning, too much to process right now (plus I'm just taking a quick break from a final I have to finish)

[phonicsmonkey]

does anybody happen to know at what level of numerical superiority the AI will sally out if you assault their settlement that you have under siege?

what I mean is, on the pre-battle screen there's a ratio of forces - at some ratio the AI will sally out, does anyone know what that is?

[phonicsmonkey]

In my opinion it cheapens the spirit of the game

I'm sorry, but I'd just like to point out again that this tactic is currently perfectly legal. Regardless of your personal views on how the game 'should' be played, let's just keep in mind Silvershield who has played expertly here, has done nothing wrong and is probably feeling like the whole world has suddenly decided to show up and bag his tactics.

Be great if we could just discuss the proposed rule change and not bandy about our opinions on whether or not we personally like the tactic in question. Otherwise we might be looking for a new Spanish player too...

[slysnake]

I'm sorry, but I'd just like to point out again that this tactic is currently perfectly legal. Regardless of your personal views on how the game 'should' be played, let's just keep in mind Silvershield who has played expertly here, has done nothing wrong and is probably feeling like the whole world has suddenly decided to show up and bag his tactics.

Be great if we could just discuss the proposed rule change and not bandy about our opinions on whether or not we personally like the tactic in question. Otherwise we might be looking for a new Spanish player too...

I shall refrain from commenting on this. Period.

[phonicsmonkey]

I shall refrain from commenting on this. Period.

Please feel free to vote for or against the rule - in fact I'd prefer if everyone gave an opinion on that.

I'm just trying to manage the fairly delicate situation that has come about here without the whole game imploding. :clown:

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I'm sorry, but I'd just like to point out again that this tactic is currently perfectly legal. Regardless of your personal views on how the game 'should' be played, let's just keep in mind Silvershield who has played expertly here, has done nothing wrong and is probably feeling like the whole world has suddenly decided to show up and bag his tactics.

Be great if we could just discuss the proposed rule change and not bandy about our opinions on whether or not we personally like the tactic in question. Otherwise we might be looking for a new Spanish player too...

Sorry, what I meant to say was not my style (plus it takes too much time); but as long as it's allowed and you've got the time, go for it

[Visor]

I think it is an exploit and should be banned.

I think the new rule is good though. (Prevents it.)

[Nightbringer]

I think it is an exploit and should be banned.

I think the new rule is good though. (Prevents it.)
dito,
so I am voting yes on the new rule. I think we could say that if the ratio is (defender)4-(attacker)1 that assaulting is illegal. I don't know what the limit is for the ai sallying but I think it is reasonable to say that anyone attacking with this ratio or worse is intending to use the exploit.

Personally, I have seen this exploit ruin hotseats before by causing many people to quit because they disliked its use, I don't think it is wrong to use it while it is legal, but I think it is in the best interest of the game if it is banned, like the crusade bug.

[slysnake]

I agree, it should also be banned, since it can render forts completly useless and is not a true test of skill, just an 'easy path to victory' as it may be...

PS: i will playing France's turn very shortly.

[slysnake]

Hopefully this should work Thanatos.

http://rapidshare.com/files/436743114/DoW2-36-HRE.sav

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sorry Sly, this was all my bad. Due to a computer problem I had to reinstall from a back up last week, but it seems when I made the shortcut for the game I took it from my back-up drive instead of my computer :clown:

[slysnake]

Sorry Sly, this was all my bad. Due to a computer problem I had to reinstall from a back up last week, but it seems when I made the shortcut for the game I took it from my back-up drive instead of my computer :clown:

Haha, so all should be good when you're done then? :)

[phonicsmonkey]

I think we could say that if the ratio is (defender)4-(attacker)1 that assaulting is illegal

I think 1/4 may be too small ie. I think the AI may sally if the odds are even 3:1 or 2:1. Also remember that bodyguard units (which are typically used for this tactic) have a large weight in the battle odds - one BG unit vs 4 spears is likely to be more even than 1:4. Is any helpful soul able to test this out for us so we can get the right ratio which will stop the AI from sallying out during an assault by the attacker?

Also we haven't heard from Zim, Silvershield, nicuurs or Balthor yet so I'd like to get their votes before proceeding. If they all voted against it would be 4 vs 4.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sicily
http://www.mediafire.com/file/02jr8bhgm5gnwh0/DoW-36-Sicily.sav

[phonicsmonkey]

ok how about this instead:

- It is not permitted to assault a settlement or fort under siege with an army entirely or mostly composed of cavalry if in the resulting battle the AI will sally from the settlement or fort. As a guide, the AI has been observed to sally in this situation when the strength ratio is more than x in its favour. If a player chooses to assault and then discovers the AI sallying in this way he must quit the battle and reload the save immediately before the assault, choosing instead to maintain the siege or withdraw his forces. This is the only circumstance in which reloading is permitted.

I will try to research what 'x' might be later.

Let me know what you think of this rule.

[Nightbringer]

ok how about this instead:

- It is not permitted to assault a settlement or fort under siege with an army entirely or mostly composed of cavalry if in the resulting battle the AI will sally from the settlement or fort. As a guide, the AI has been observed to sally in this situation when the strength ratio is more than x in its favour. If a player chooses to assault and then discovers the AI sallying in this way he must quit the battle and reload the save immediately before the assault, choosing instead to maintain the siege or withdraw his forces. This is the only circumstance in which reloading is permitted.

I will try to research what 'x' might be later.

Let me know what you think of this rule.

I agree with and vote for this rule.

[slysnake]

ok how about this instead:

- It is not permitted to assault a settlement or fort under siege with an army entirely or mostly composed of cavalry if in the resulting battle the AI will sally from the settlement or fort. As a guide, the AI has been observed to sally in this situation when the strength ratio is more than x in its favour. If a player chooses to assault and then discovers the AI sallying in this way he must quit the battle and reload the save immediately before the assault, choosing instead to maintain the siege or withdraw his forces. This is the only circumstance in which reloading is permitted.

I will try to research what 'x' might be later.

Let me know what you think of this rule.

I agree with this rule.

[Visor]

Nice. Agreed.

(An another note, is this (The Exploit) allowed against actual AI opponents?)

[phonicsmonkey]

Let's hear what people think about that.

[slysnake]

I find it ironic that the one person of whome this is going to apply to most to has said nothing on the topic yet; its a shame that we did not have such a rule earlier, since now one of our best and enthusiastic players has left, with me clearing up the aftermath...

[phonicsmonkey]

one of our best and enthusiastic players has left, with my clearing up the aftermath...

He didn't have to leave. It was his own choice. Personally I prefer people to play to the death of their faction, it makes things much easier for everyone else.

If I were Silver I wouldn't bother commenting here either. Try to remember that everything that happened was within the rules of the game and to be honest is fairly standard practice in some circles.

[phonicsmonkey]

ok how about this instead:

- It is not permitted to assault a settlement or fort under siege with an army entirely or mostly composed of cavalry if in the resulting battle the AI will sally from the settlement or fort. As a guide, the AI has been observed to sally in this situation when the strength ratio is more than x in its favour. If a player chooses to assault and then discovers the AI sallying in this way he must quit the battle and reload the save immediately before the assault, choosing instead to maintain the siege or withdraw his forces. This is the only circumstance in which reloading is permitted.

I will try to research what 'x' might be later.

Let me know what you think of this rule.

ok it turns out that 'x' is about 1:3 odds. I tested a battle with seven defending units, 1 BG, 3 infantry, 1 archer and 2 HA vs first 3 attacking HAs and then 4 HAs. Both times the pre-battle screen showed 1:3 odds. In the first case the garrison sallied and in the second they did not.

I'd also just like to apologise if I have come across as a bit grumpy about this whole thing. I've spent an awful lot of time on this in the last few days.

Frankly I just hate it when these things disrupt otherwise enjoyable games and I hope we can quickly move past it and get back to having fun!

[Balthor]

Greetings,

That was a lot to read :)

This is my first hotseat, I found out since beggining that there´s a lot of tricks I did not used at my solo campaigns! (even if I play this since Medieval I). The solution I saw in the Broken Crescent Campaign about auto-resolve battles and dont use spies to open gates seemed the best for hotseats. But we started this Campaign with player battles and it´s what all agreed. I got used to never let my armies fight a defensive battle..except when roleplay calls it :)

It´s more fair to keep rules as they are. ((but, I am not leaving the game if it´s voted otherwise)) :)

----

Ok, about my turn. My computer is down since sunday. I am trying to fix it, seems one of the HDs died (the one with SS2). I cant say when I will be able to play since I am not sure what´s wrong yet. Maybe Phonics can sub for me to keep things going?

*salute*

[Visor]

I don't think the exploit should be used against any faction, AI or human.

[slysnake]

I don't think the exploit should be used against any faction, AI or human.

Agreed. And also, Balthor, if you have read my PM and you agree, it would be great for you to play your turn rather than someone else. Just PM me about it k?

[SilverShield]

u lilp amuse me. i give a f about uanyone seeing this as an exploit or unfair or whatever. ub guys opinion matter to me like sh

Phonics, i respect the time and effort u are putting into that. and i do respect that u are trying to balance all this but controlling the battlemode is just senseless over regulation. anyone is free to apply that "exploit" himself especially if anyone thinks it was that easy to do. and if one doesnt like his armies being f over like that one has to come up with a better strategy to avoid such battles. just because ur opponent cant handle it or is too stupid to get it doesnt mean that its wrong. i aint stoping throwing touchdown passes just because the opposing teams cornerback is too stupid to tackle my wide receiver. over regulation like that will kill the battlemode and will kill the challenge that match has been all about so far

[slysnake]

u lilp amuse me. i give a f about uanyone seeing this as an exploit or unfair or whatever. ub guys opinion matter to me like sh

Phonics, i respect the time and effort u are putting into that. and i do respect that u are trying to balance all this but controlling the battlemode is just senseless over regulation. anyone is free to apply that "exploit" himself especially if anyone thinks it was that easy to do. and if one doesnt like his armies being f over like that one has to come up with a better strategy to avoid such battles. just because ur opponent cant handle it or is too stupid to get it doesnt mean that its wrong. i aint stoping throwing touchdown passes just because the opposing teams cornerback is too stupid to tackle my wide receiver. over regulation like that will kill the battlemode and will kill the challenge that match has been all about so far

Do you really think these pathetic insults mean anything to anyone here? You disappoint me; I seriously thought the players in this hoseat were more mature than that, but maybe I was wrong to think so...

[phonicsmonkey]

Agreed. And also, Balthor, if you have read my PM and you agree, it would be great for you to play your turn rather than someone else. Just PM me about it k?

If I sub for Balthor I'll act on his explicit instructions.

[phonicsmonkey]

Do you really think these pathetic insults mean anything to anyone here? You disappoint me; I seriously thought the players in this hoseat were more mature than that, but maybe I was wrong to think so...


u lilp amuse me. i give a f about uanyone seeing this as an exploit or unfair or whatever. ub guys opinion matter to me like sh

Phonics, i respect the time and effort u are putting into that. and i do respect that u are trying to balance all this but controlling the battlemode is just senseless over regulation. anyone is free to apply that "exploit" himself especially if anyone thinks it was that easy to do. and if one doesnt like his armies being f over like that one has to come up with a better strategy to avoid such battles. just because ur opponent cant handle it or is too stupid to get it doesnt mean that its wrong. i aint stoping throwing touchdown passes just because the opposing teams cornerback is too stupid to tackle my wide receiver. over regulation like that will kill the battlemode and will kill the challenge that match has been all about so far

Guys, let's keep it civil here, avoid any unnecessary arguments and try to respect the forum rules about bad language (that means you Silver)

We've all said our piece now and the rule is being voted on. The majority will decide.

[Nightbringer]

u lilp amuse me. i give a f about uanyone seeing this as an exploit or unfair or whatever. ub guys opinion matter to me like sh

Phonics, i respect the time and effort u are putting into that. and i do respect that u are trying to balance all this but controlling the battlemode is just senseless over regulation. anyone is free to apply that "exploit" himself especially if anyone thinks it was that easy to do. and if one doesnt like his armies being f over like that one has to come up with a better strategy to avoid such battles. just because ur opponent cant handle it or is too stupid to get it doesnt mean that its wrong. i aint stoping throwing touchdown passes just because the opposing teams cornerback is too stupid to tackle my wide receiver. over regulation like that will kill the battlemode and will kill the challenge that match has been all about so far

Then we simply enjoying playing the game in different ways. And that is fine, but we have to decide how most people in this game want to play, as that will create the best result for everyone.

[phonicsmonkey]

Then we simply enjoying playing the game in different ways. And that is fine, but we have to decide how most people in this game want to play, as that will create the best result for everyone.

Well said.

[Visor]

^^ Agreed with Nightbringer, if there was a rep thing here, I'd give you some.

And SS, the only thing I know about gridiron is that it is sooo bloody slow and boring, rugby league is infinitely better.

[phonicsmonkey]

rugby league is infinitely better.

what terrible taste you have. league is for the commonfolk, the only gentlemanly game with an oval ball is rugby union.

[Nightbringer]

what terrible taste you have. league is for the commonfolk, the only gentlemanly game with an oval ball is rugby union.


Guys, let's keep it civil here, avoid any unnecessary arguments

XD
Only joking, but anyway. Who's turn is it?

[phonicsmonkey]

It's Balthor's turn and I'm supposed to be subbing it for him. I've been at work all day since he posted it so I haven't had a chance yet. Also could do with some instructions from him so I might hold out a little longer for that...

[phonicsmonkey]

Turks (http://www.mediafire.com/?mq777l279fuc4ld)

[slysnake]

My good friend Rexlegend may be taking over France - will keep you all posted.

[RexLegend]

Sam... A very urgent need to shout out? Lol...

Basically by now, yes i think im jumping into game. I've already met with 36th turn situation and ill try to give my best.

[phonicsmonkey]

Welcome to the game RexLegend and thanks for stepping in!

[Zim]

Egypt is up.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=5296

I'm fine either way about the proposed ruling. I can definately see how a player on the losing end of that tactic would be upset.

Funny all the exploits people come up with for hotseats. I guess the AI is so easy that there isn't much incentive in SP campaigns.

Silvershield, you might want to edit the first sentence of that last post. Swearing in posts is against forum rules, even if you drop most of the letters out of the words.

[Visor]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/b5fuqh

Expect a IC post soon.

Danes.

[slysnake]

Im sure this turn is getting onto the 48 hour marker now isn't it?

[phonicsmonkey]

yes it is

Visorslash did you send nicuurs a pm?

[nicuurs]

Hungary's (http://www.sendspace.com/file/c4f7zw) turn.

Good luck.

[phonicsmonkey]

Castile (http://www.mediafire.com/?39n5fgg2gddnrl6)

[phonicsmonkey]

The new rule has passed by 4 votes to 2

Here it is:

- It is not permitted to assault a settlement or fort under siege with an army entirely or mostly composed of cavalry if in the resulting battle the AI will sally from the settlement or fort. As a guide, the AI has been observed to sally in this situation when the strength ratio is more than 3:1 in its favour. If a player chooses to assault and then discovers the AI sallying in this way he must quit the battle and reload the save immediately before the assault, choosing instead to maintain the siege or withdraw his forces. This is the only circumstance in which reloading is permitted.

I'm afraid I can't edit the first post so I'll just have to direct new players to this post for the additional rule.

Have fun everyone.

[SilverShield]

mate ur inbox is full and still dont get his. how am i supposed to find out the amount of troops that would fit the rule? do i have to start the battle over and over again until i find out the correct amount of troops i have to put on the field?

[phonicsmonkey]

Bring more than 1/3 of his troops and you should be ok. You can check the bar on the pre-battle screen. However if you find he sallies you're going to have to reload and bring more troops.

If he's not sallying you're going to need a decent sized army anyway to take the fort or city, right?

[Nightbringer]

Bring more than 1/3 of his troops and you should be ok. You can check the bar on the pre-battle screen. However if you find he sallies you're going to have to reload and bring more troops.

If he's not sallying you're going to need a decent sized army anyway to take the fort or city, right?

Exactly, the point of the rule is that you should honestly think you have enough troops to take the settlement when the ai acts reasonably and holds the walls.
This is almost certainly well more than 1/3 the ai army, meaning this situation shouldn't occur often.

[SilverShield]

kiev
http://depositfiles.com/files/aojee3oq1

[Nightbringer]

england!
http://www.sendspace.com/file/t9l4dh

[slysnake]

RexLegend has recieved his svae via Windows Live Messenger, so there will be no need to post any link this turn.

[RexLegend]

HRE's turn (http://www.sendspace.com/file/cw0s0g)

Good luck :)

[phonicsmonkey]

Merry Christmas all!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Hope you guys don't mind a slight delay, cause I probably won't be able to get this done till tomorrow afternoon.

Merry Christmas

[RexLegend]

Merry Christmas to everyone :)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sicily

http://www.mediafire.com/file/v88odqn3g139e73/DoW-37-Sicily.sav

Expect court room post soon

[Balthor]

Greetings,

Merry Xmas :)

I can only do this tomorrow if ok.

*salute*

[Balthor]

Greetings,

Got this instalation running i hope.

Turks (http://www.sendspace.com/file/zopund) next.

*salute*

[slysnake]

We be coming up to 48 hours this new year, are we we not?

[phonicsmonkey]

Zim asked me for an extension to the 1st.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Is there a Zim in the house? If not could his allies sub him?

[phonicsmonkey]

Visor seems to be missing too although I now see he has surfaced at the TWC so I'll PM him there and see if we can get things moving. Otherwise I'll have to skip.

[Visor]

Sorry about my absence. Forgot about the org.

[Visor]

Sorry for the double post, but I'm doing this turn now, then my GA turn.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/23fy5l

Danes.

[nicuurs]

Hungary's (http://www.sendspace.com/file/4qglcp) turn.

Good luck.

[phonicsmonkey]

Castile (http://www.mediafire.com/?wgd97rl4ss8qmg7)

[SilverShield]

gonna do this later today

[slysnake]

gonna do this later today

Maybe you should correct that, Silver, and put, "later, on the next day" XD

[SilverShield]

a friend got some last tickets for the cotton bowl. gonna do this when im back tomorrow. might exceed the time limit. but wont be more than a few hours

[SilverShield]

kiev up
http://depositfiles.com/files/f5xj3tpel

i wont be around the next days and too filled to deal with any stitch complaints and rule stuff whatsoever. i put on those pics. should clear things up. first battle i attacked a unit outside the city with some cav. computer reinforcements supported the unit on the regular battlefield. the city was empty after the battle coz the army was killed on the field. not in the city. in second battle its obvious the army was big enough to keep the computer inside the city. and its still that big coz i kept casualties low

https://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx315/PARTYEVERYDAYYEA/dow37b1a.jpg

https://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx315/PARTYEVERYDAYYEA/dow37b1b.jpg

https://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx315/PARTYEVERYDAYYEA/dow37b2a.jpg

https://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx315/PARTYEVERYDAYYEA/dow37b2b.jpg

[Nightbringer]

kiev up
http://depositfiles.com/files/f5xj3tpel

i wont be around the next days and too filled to deal with any stitch complaints and rule stuff whatsoever. i put on those pics. should clear things up. first battle i attacked a unit outside the city with some cav. computer reinforcements supported the unit on the regular battlefield. the city was empty after the battle coz the army was killed on the field. not in the city. in second battle its obvious the army was big enough to keep the computer inside the city. and its still that big coz i kept casualties low

That certainly is within the rules, but is that honestly a fun way to play a hotseat game for you?

Anyway, england up.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gdnq30

[slysnake]

That certainly is within the rules, but is that honestly a fun way to play a hotseat game for you?

Anyway, england up.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gdnq30

Agreed, but even if you play within the rules, its not exactly not that rewarding if you take a city in a way that, in reality, would be practicaly impossible...


Edit: Just sent Rexlegend his turn through Windows Live Messenger.

[RexLegend]

Ahem... I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Castile's last turn is very interesting... we all can agree. But some things remained to cripple my soul...

- How the hell he managed to take Iberian lands that France controlled?
I know... he had ballista nearby Toledo, but what about Murcia and Valencia? Super-edited program to increase movement range? Small cities are all useless when recruiting them and North-Africa check doesn't show nothing much. (Im checking 38th and 37th turn.)

- Rheims phenomeon... After he took Rheims, we checked and didn't find any sign about catas nor ballistas. i had spy inside, but i think it doesn't find foreign spy always out.

- Id really like to know some details about fooling entire legion in battle of Clermont. And with such minimal casualities!!?? Reminds me "auto_win attacker/defencer" console cheat, which is obiviously impossible.

+[Removed by request of phonics]+

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this sort of thing, but i just thought you should all know about the problem I have had, whether or not it is the right place.

Greetings,
RexLegend the Emperor of Dragon States of France.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

guy, if you suspect foul play, your suppose to take it up with the gm (phonicsmonkey) and not here.

i also believe there are ways to achieve such victories that are not cheating that involve wearing out the enemy, then attaking. The enemy will guickly retreat and then it's just a matter of running them down. As much as we want a historically accurate game, it's still just a game. the only way to really avoid a dumb ai is to play autoresolve (which has its own set of challeges).

[Nightbringer]

Yes, it is possible to achieve those results without cheating. It is done by repeatedly running away from the ai until they are exhausted, then charging with generals bodyguard. ai troops will immediately route and you can run them all down. Personally, I hate this tactic, and I think it takes all the fun out of the game, but as the rules currently are, it is not banned. I would support banning it, but there is no way to enforce that as far as I can see. Unless we simply expand the no attacking when odds are 3/1 or worse to all battles.

[slysnake]

The way I see it is that this game, at least for me and my friend, is becoming a game to see who can use explots like that to gain the best advantage, rather than a game that should be tesing true commanding skill. If he continues using the same exploits, with my friend or I able to nothing to prevent them, we might as well quit hands down since there is not much else we can realistically do to counter-act it :/

[phonicsmonkey]

The way I see it is that this game, at least for me and my friend, is becoming a game to see who can use explots like that to gain the best advantage, rather than a game that should be tesing true commanding skill. If he continues using the same exploits, with my friend or I able to nothing to prevent them, we might as well quit hands down since there is not much else we can realistically do to counter-act it :/

Look, we all know that it is possible to beat the AI on the battle map with a small amount of troops. At least I thought we all knew that....I'm sorry if this seems harsh but I'm really amazed that everyone keeps getting surprised by someone's successes on the battle map against the AI. Have you never played the SP game and used small amounts of troops to wipe out a big AI army? Why shouldn't we also be able to do that in hotseats?

That's one of the disadvantages of playing a game where battles are allowed. The way to avoid it is to play on the defence so that your enemy doesn't get a battle against you. Force the situation so that you instead get the chance to play the battle and have the advantage. There are many many strategies you can employ to do this. I myself have played several hotseats with battles enabled against players with the same skill level as Silver (and Silver himself!) and I have not found it difficult. It just requires some strategic thinking.

For example on the last Egyptian turn Visor was able to enter Athens and wipe out the defending garrison with minimal losses - because he is good at the game and the AI is not. I knew that risk when I retook Athens last turn, which is why I didn't leave a large army in there to be potentially destroyed. It's as simple as that - when you leave your forces in the hands of the AI, expect them to be destroyed. Avoid giving your opponents a battle.

I think it's really unfair to keep accusing other players of using exploits when they are simply expertly playing within the rules and basic mechanics of the game. Rather than complaining or feeling that the game is unfair, think about why he was able to do this to you and how you might be able to stop it, then implement those strategies within the game. Also learn how to do similar things back to him, then you will be able to use his own tactics against him!

When you first played chess and somebody used Foolsmate against you, did you complain that the game was unfair? Or did you accept that your opponent knew more about it than you and try not to make the same mistake again?

As Nighbringer said the only alternative is to play an autoresolve-only game.

If we want to change this game to AR-only and a majority votes for it then we can do so - however many of us have already played 40 turns of this game within the battle map rules and with no significant issues, and have geared our infrastructure towards producing troops that are good on the battle map (ie. cavalry) rather than those which are good in AR (infantry). Also AR-only games have their own issues in that some factions (those with HA-based armies) are pemanently handicapped by the unbalanced AR system.

It seems to me that there is a desire among some players for this game to be something other than it is. Hotseats in TW games are imperfect and always will be. You can either live with this and learn to enjoy them, or go spend your time on something else that you enjoy more. You will be missed if you choose to do that - I would encourage you instead to stick around and learn strategies and tactics to be successful within the limits of this game.

These games are just supposed to be a bit of fun and I don't think any of us who play them regularly really see them as a level playing field.

They are a lot more enjoyable when everyone relaxes and just accepts that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

EDIT: hey, where did that pic in my sig come from? For reference, I totally lost that LotE game after I was prematurely awarded the title of "Greatest Player" :laugh:

[Visor]

For example on the last Egyptian turn Visor was able to enter Athens and wipe out the defending garrison with minimal losses - because he is good at the game and the AI is not. I knew that risk when I retook Athens last turn, which is why I didn't leave a large army in there to be potentially destroyed. It's as simple as that - when you leave your forces in the hands of the AI, expect them to be destroyed. Avoid giving your opponents a battle.

lol. I just auto'ed it and lost 900 men. too lazy to play it on the map.

Personally, I think that battles against AI can be played on the map, but against human players, they should be autoresolved. That's how we do it over at the net and we don't have these problems.


If we want to change this game to AR-only and a majority votes for it then we can do so - however many of us have already played 40 turns of this game within the battle map rules and with no significant issues, and have geared our infrastructure towards producing troops that are good on the battle map (ie. cavalry) rather than those which are good in AR (infantry). Also AR-only games have their own issues in that some factions (those with HA-based armies) are pemanently handicapped by the unbalanced AR system.

I'd vote for it. If you guys are dling KGCM for the challenge thingo, the creator (Dave Scarface) released a patch buffing all cavalry which makes them strong units. It's is pretty finely balanced and very fun.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sicily

http://www.mediafire.com/file/k6la195steo1cmb/DoW-38-Sicily.sav

[Nightbringer]

Look, we all know that it is possible to beat the AI on the battle map with a small amount of troops. At least I thought we all knew that....I'm sorry if this seems harsh but I'm really amazed that everyone keeps getting surprised by someone's successes on the battle map against the AI. Have you never played the SP game and used small amounts of troops to wipe out a big AI army? Why shouldn't we also be able to do that in hotseats?

That's one of the disadvantages of playing a game where battles are allowed. The way to avoid it is to play on the defence so that your enemy doesn't get a battle against you. Force the situation so that you instead get the chance to play the battle and have the advantage. There are many many strategies you can employ to do this. I myself have played several hotseats with battles enabled against players with the same skill level as Silver (and Silver himself!) and I have not found it difficult. It just requires some strategic thinking.

For example on the last Egyptian turn Visor was able to enter Athens and wipe out the defending garrison with minimal losses - because he is good at the game and the AI is not. I knew that risk when I retook Athens last turn, which is why I didn't leave a large army in there to be potentially destroyed. It's as simple as that - when you leave your forces in the hands of the AI, expect them to be destroyed. Avoid giving your opponents a battle.

I think it's really unfair to keep accusing other players of using exploits when they are simply expertly playing within the rules and basic mechanics of the game. Rather than complaining or feeling that the game is unfair, think about why he was able to do this to you and how you might be able to stop it, then implement those strategies within the game. Also learn how to do similar things back to him, then you will be able to use his own tactics against him!

When you first played chess and somebody used Foolsmate against you, did you complain that the game was unfair? Or did you accept that your opponent knew more about it than you and try not to make the same mistake again?

As Nighbringer said the only alternative is to play an autoresolve-only game.

If we want to change this game to AR-only and a majority votes for it then we can do so - however many of us have already played 40 turns of this game within the battle map rules and with no significant issues, and have geared our infrastructure towards producing troops that are good on the battle map (ie. cavalry) rather than those which are good in AR (infantry). Also AR-only games have their own issues in that some factions (those with HA-based armies) are pemanently handicapped by the unbalanced AR system.

It seems to me that there is a desire among some players for this game to be something other than it is. Hotseats in TW games are imperfect and always will be. You can either live with this and learn to enjoy them, or go spend your time on something else that you enjoy more. You will be missed if you choose to do that - I would encourage you instead to stick around and learn strategies and tactics to be successful within the limits of this game.

These games are just supposed to be a bit of fun and I don't think any of us who play them regularly really see them as a level playing field.

They are a lot more enjoyable when everyone relaxes and just accepts that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

EDIT: hey, where did that pic in my sig come from? For reference, I totally lost that LotE game after I was prematurely awarded the title of "Greatest Player" :laugh:

I guess the difference to me is that it is possible to defeat much larger ai armies by outsmarting them and destroying them because they are stupid through the use of rear cavalry charges, luring, etc. But to me it is an entirely different thing to use one critical flaw in the ai, that they will chase you and exhaust themselves for no reason, to win simply through the stat numbers of fresh cavalry versus exhausted infantry.

However, this is simply my feelings, and everything that has been done is completely within the rules, and I cannot expect everyone to have the same preferences as me. I don't want to come off as hostile towards people who prefer playing the game that way, it is simply not what I personally enjoy.

Whatever compromise we can come up with will serve the game best, it would be just as destructive if my beliefs about what are fun were imposed as it would be if the same happened with those of someone else.

I have personally been leaning towards autoresolve games lately, and think visorslash's suggestion could work, but I think it is too late to make that kind of alteration for this game, and might not even be what most people would want. So unless a lot of players support that, I think we should probably just stay with the rules as are for now.

I do have one idea for what we could do. If neither player in a war wants to do it, they would simply not employ such tactics, but if they are used against you, feel free to use any exploitative tactic (allowed by the rules) that you want against them in response.
This would create a situation where not all wars will be fought with these, especially between players who don't like them, but those players who do want to use these tactics are taking a risk because they are opening them self to whatever ai killing tricks their opponent comes up with in response.
I realize this is basically what is already happening, but it could be a bit more fun for those who don't like these tactics if they view them as things against the laws of war, biological weapons for example, and that they must use whatever dirty tricks they have in their books in response.

That got long winded and might not make any sense, but whatever. Lets just try to be friendly and have fun! That applies to everyone, including me.

[Balthor]

Greetings,

Turks (http://www.sendspace.com/file/h731bx) Next.

*salute*

[slysnake]

I personally think we should not go as making it so we MUST auto-resolve, but I think the earlier idea of not being engaged in a battle where you are outnumbered 3:1, or if a comprimise has to be made, 4:1. I don't want anyone to jump to any concusions yet since none of us yet really have a good idea of what everyone else wants. People need to post their own ideas and opinions, then maybe we could start a vote of some kind.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Personally I'd rather just keep the game as it is. I don't like the idea of small armies taking out much larger ones, but I also don't want this game to become too micro managed. I also feel it's too late in the game to switch strategies to an auto-resolve only game.

I've enjoyed the game as it is so far, so I say just continue.

[SilverShield]

guess editing this is the right thing to do. im in a strange mood today. been to glendale to the bcs championship game yesterday and its seldom a good thing if u are seeing a girl u only broke up with coz of distance with passion still flying high. even harder if shes a cheerleader dancing in front of u for 2 hours making it even harder seeing her after the match. but whatever. i posted the first words after i was reading a pm i got telling me of what the france accused me of. like some unit force changing or whatever. im clueless of what he might actually accused me of but telling from the pm i got it sure sounded bad. changing the strength of troops or whatever the heck he was about. that does sound bad. u know im clueless of this whole technical thing. i know nothing about this whole stuff. its ridiculous. accusing me of anything like that is whatever. and i mean it says a lot about him if he instantly thinks anyone was doing the stuff he was accusing me of but anyway some carbs and protein later im feeling like checking what he was actually saying but this part of this post had been deleted already. it is just the ordinary wussy crying about how there were no units and cavalry taking out huge armies and all this bla bla bla which im fine with. thats okay. i mean its kinda sad that people are blaming others instead of thinking about where they might have screwed up in the first place. i mean if he wouldnt have been leaving one unit lurking outside in front of the city i wouldnt even have gotten a chance of fighting that battle according to the new rules which i sticked to. i mean come on i even posted pics to avoid any further crying and still he comes up with stuff like that. that is i mean. whatever. maybe im just lacking the understanding of how people could be getting that crazy over a freaking computer game. thats neither football nor basketball or whatever its just a lousy computer game. u can say i also did freak out. yea but what i got mad on is the accusing he was doing. im fine with losing this game but having someone accusing me of the things he might have said is something that is just as much as unacceptable to me as backstabbers are. i mean u can think of me as an egocentric abusive meathead but my whole life i ve been keeping myself from falsely accusing someone and just purring it on anyone or backstabbing anyone. and i disrespect and hate people who are doing otherwise. and i am sticking to what i ve actually said. he d deserved a beating for that and he sure would have gotten it if he d come off like that in real life just like any backstabber does. although this accusing took it to a whole another level. just publicly flat out accusing others is something that is unacceptable to me. sure he might have been upset in a way that im maybe lacking the understanding of but publicly coming up with stuff like that is although i dont know the exact words something that is unacceptable to me. and i just hate people who are accusing others of their own faults. i hate it. its unacceptable to me. u know in bodybuilding no one of us would ever blame the other for himself screwing up. if i got placed bad at a competition well then my strategy of winning this was just bad or just didnt work. we are restraining ourselves from saying aw the judges worked in his favor, its his sponsor, the promoter whatever. no. he just did come up with a better package that night and i didnt. thats my fault then. anyone is free of following the routine he thinks is right and is free doing what he wants on his way to the top. its the most fair sport in the world. unlike all the other fake and wanna be clean sports. in bodybuilding its on u urself and ur buddies and opponents can just do the same or whatever they feel is right for them. we are blaming no one else but ourselfs. thats the way it works. standing up for ur own faults and not blaming others. or think about football. if im throwing a pass that is incomplete im neither blaming my receiver nor is he blaming me. we just think about what each of us might could have done better. thats the way to progress. thats the way to move forward. looking for some sneaky flaws and accusing others leads nowhere. but anyways. thats just another world here i guess. i guess blaming someone else is just easier than thinking about own mistakes. whatever. i still feel the way i posted it first if he came up with those accusations the pm told me about but as u made him delete this part Phonics i think it would be wrong to keep mine the way it was. i mean u somehow stood up for me at least thats how i see it and made him delete this so i guess its just right paying u some tribute and sucking down the way im actually feeling about this. think of this as showing u some respect. however this game has turned from an occasional fun to people endlessly crying and moaning about new rules or being cheated. i hate this. so this is a good moment to stop playing it. it certainly had its moments but the way it has developed is a way i will stop going any longer. this forums restricts me from expressing my feelings the way i feel it. those rules on language might be a good thing coz otherwise this forum maybe was going down but that is something which is hard for me to take. im seldom on the internet and being not allowed and actually being unable to express myself the way i feel it is something that im stopping now. this whole concept of the internet and this forum is working for me if things are going calm and smoothly but if someone backstabs me or accuses me of stuff like the france and im unable to act the way im feeling it is something that is hard for me. those feelings of anger will be coming up elsewhere then which unfortunately seldom is the gym or the punching bag room. im afraid i ll deny a lot of more nerds access to the club now. so accumulating anger simply due to things on an internet forum is pathetic and therefore something that i am restraining myself from accepting any longer. but whatever. lastly thanks for ur service Phonics. u made him delete those accusations which is a good thing. and u ve been putting a lot into this match. i mean u were losing a lot of quality time that sunday u had to be checking dozens of save games. i am respecting u as someone who does try to balance things and solve issues. u are the good side im lacking way too often. i think u did a good job as a host of this straight form saving the whole thing after Lemon dropped and all the way through the trouble that had come up lately. its kinda remarkable this match recovered after the lost of Lemon and half of the original players. but it has come to a point and is obviously going a direction that im incapable and unwilling to go. i favor freedom over regulation. i admit that there is a need for some rules. i mean being sacked by a center who just breaks my knees is a thing that is unnecessary to experience. but some new restrictions on tackling or whatever some wanna be innovative experts are thinking about to reduce concussions is something that will kill football. see what i mean. its a small line. there is a need for rules but over regulation will kill anything. and keep in mind twisting around the rules is possible but it remains a computer. it wont change. and if i have to i choose freedom over security. no matter whether is real life or just a actually more or less unimportant computer game. and no matter how much u were regulating it there will always be some twists to take advantage of. and thats a good thing. thats life. survival of the fittest

[phonicsmonkey]

Silver, for the last time it is against forum rules to post offensive language. You'd better edit that post right away before you get yourself banned by a mod.

Calm down.

[Nightbringer]

I'm sorry that you feel like you're being attacked silvershield, I don't think that is really what people are trying to do. There isn't any way to put this except that there are two (or more) ways that people like to play this game. When those styles clash, it can easily ruin the fun of the game for one of those people.

We haven't managed to find a set of rules that allows everyone to feel happy, which isn't good for anyone. This isn't anyone's fault (don't take it personally phonics, I think you are doing a great job of moderating this game), but unless we manage to find a compromise everyone likes, this game is going to be ruined for someone. If people would rather leave the game than go through that process of working out rules, which certainly isn't easy, then that is their choice and I don't think anyone will hold it against them.

I think we all need to remember that there is no reason to take any of this personally, or make negative statements about other peoples preferences (I too have been guilty of this), we just need to try to work out what will be the best solution for the game.

If anyone wants to leave, I'm sure we can find a replacement, so if this game just isn't enjoyable for you and you don't think it can be made so, then that is a perfectly good reason to go.

[phonicsmonkey]

im out of this.

I'm very sorry to hear that.


We haven't managed to find a set of rules that allows everyone to feel happy, which isn't good for anyone. This isn't anyone's fault (don't take it personally phonics, I think you are doing a great job of moderating this game), but unless we manage to find a compromise everyone likes, this game is going to be ruined for someone. If people would rather leave the game than go through that process of working out rules, which certainly isn't easy, then that is their choice and I don't think anyone will hold it against them.

I think we all need to remember that there is no reason to take any of this personally, or make negative statements about other peoples preferences (I too have been guilty of this), we just need to try to work out what will be the best solution for the game.

Thank you and well said.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hey guys, here's some good news for a change. This game has been nominated in the 2010 Org Hall of Fame awards (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?324-Org-Awards) (thanks Ibn-Khaldun!)

So make sure you keep an eye on the notifications so we can all vote for it once the polling begins.

Despite our recent difficulties this has been an outstanding game, having run for over eighteen months and with a dedicated core of players who have contributed to the diplomacy and story threads throughout.

We all deserve the recognition for making this the best hotseat game of 2010. Well done everyone!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

im out of this.

Sorry to hear that Silver. I really was looking forward to facing you in Spain.

[Nightbringer]

Goodbye silver, I'm sorry this game has taken such a turn for you, and I hope all goes well for you in other areas of your life.

[Balthor]

****WALL of TEXT crits Sicily for 90879860980 - Sicily is crushed!!!****

Ok, jokes apart, I am sorry for the last forum problems. I normallty just lurk...but hell even Nightbringer is doing big posts now...so I must say something too before Nicuurs does :)

I would like to shift to auto-resolve too. But considering what Phonics said about production planning I must vote for keeping things as they are.

I am sorry Silvershield is leaving, he did a great comeback after France surprise attack. This is my first game and i am too new at hotseats to say what´s exploiting or not. I always played my battles pinning the center and then hitting their side or rear, these exaustion techniques are alien to me. I hope we can reach an agreement about the new battle rules.

Finnaly grats to Phonics and Lemongate about the award, I will be alert to vote. I should be more active on the RP forum, it´s just that Sicily was so small that it did not made a difference. We got back on our feet now since the Emperor is very generous. I guess Sigrid needs to make an announcement there.

*salute*

P.S. Wow checking the first page we have really few people from the ones from start. I joined at turn 2 if I remember.

[slysnake]

Sorry to hear that Silver. I really was looking forward to facing you in Spain.

I was also quite looking forward to facing you on the field of battle, so Im also sorry to hear that you are leaving :/

[RexLegend]

Wow... Unexpected tidal changes. Now i feel really bad about this :(
I'm so sorry that i caused SilverShield to leave. I didn't even intend to make player leave with suspect.

Goodbye silver, be future winds more merciful for you.

[nicuurs]

I came out of my cave to tell you this:

Chill! It's just a game, and I think we can react a little better than 10 years old. "I'll take my toys and go home" is soooo kindergarten, if you know what I mean. The same as accusing a fellow player of cheating with scant evidence. If you can't work out your differences, go online and meet on the battlefield, it could calm your collective heads.

Ok, back to my hermit lair.

[Visor]

I think I liked it better when you were back in your cave nicuurs! :P

But otherwise I do agree with you. (Nicuurs.)

[slysnake]

Just out of interest, could anyone imagine a game where the idea of the game WAS to cheat, ie. edit unit stats?? I would actually love to try a game like that one day XD

[Thanatos Eclipse]

That sounds like some sort of hackers game. besides all you'd have to do to win is hack the game so that it automatically declares you the winner, unless of course there were some rule; in which case everyone would just break them anyway cause the point of the game was to cheat! How's that for imagining it, sly ;P

[RexLegend]

And best hacker who knows best hacks, wins ;)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Have we lost Zim again? Could Visor go ahead and sub?

[phonicsmonkey]

I already asked him to and he was going to do it yesterday and then play his own turn. I pm'd him again today to remind him.

[phonicsmonkey]

Egypt (http://www.mediafire.com/?k95sugbdmdhhqc3)

Sorry for the delay everyone, I'm going to get stricter on turn deadlines from now on.

[Visor]

For once, it wasn't my fault. My internet went screwy and I couldn't access some sites.

[The Lemongate]

Hmmm the irony...

[phonicsmonkey]

hey, Lemon's back!

What irony?

[Visor]

Sorry to put this on you guys, but I'm going to have to drop out of this and GA. I have some major RL issues I need to sort out, and I can't spend so much time on hotseating.

[slysnake]

Sorry to put this on you guys, but I'm going to have to drop out of this and GA. I have some major RL issues I need to sort out, and I can't spend so much time on hotseating.

So basically we have lost 2 main players in just over a week??

[phonicsmonkey]

Visor, I'm sorry to hear that - I hope things work out for you in RL and you're very welcome to come back when things settle down.


So basically we have lost 2 main players in just over a week??

time to get recruiting - does anyone know anyone who wants to join this game as Egypt or Spain?

[slysnake]

I'v just abut exhausted any ideas after RexLegend joined the game, since he is the only one of my friends who is a TW fan :)

[Nightbringer]

Hmmm the irony...

The glorious one who is said to have created this... game... returns!
Mayhaps he would like to humble us by taking over spain or egypt himself?

welcome back lemon! are you here to stay or just popping back in to say hi?

[slysnake]

Can visor be subbed for the time being?

[phonicsmonkey]

I'll ask Zim to sub Visor.

I also have some ideas for people to ask about joining the hotseat so watch this space.

[Zim]

Denmark.



https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=6902

[Ignoramus]

I'm considering joining up in response to phonic's request, but I'd like to think about it for a day or two. I'd take Spain if I accepted.

[phonicsmonkey]

Awesome! We'd be very glad to have you in the game. I'll give you first refusal of Spain and let you know if anyone else pops up and is interested.

Have you considered also joining Glorious Achievements where we are in the market for a Hungarian, an Egyptian or a Sicilian?

[Visor]

Well I may be able to play GA, but I uninstalled SS6.2. If you really need a player, I'll come back. :/

[phonicsmonkey]

Well I may be able to play GA, but I uninstalled SS6.2. If you really need a player, I'll come back. :/

Cheers buddy, I'll let you know how we go. I'm trying to use this as an opportunity to reinvigorate our little community a little...we've been struggling along for a while, it's time to build up the player base again.

I'm very impressed by how well you've done over at TWC in building that community up and I might steal some ideas from grouchy in due course once we've saved these two games.

[Visor]

Yes, your community is quite small. I was hoping, with the WWC hotseat, that people would come over to the Dark side and check it out.

[nicuurs]

Hungary's (http://www.sendspace.com/file/fmd2ly) turn.

Good luck.

[phonicsmonkey]

Yes, your community is quite small. I was hoping, with the WWC hotseat, that people would come over to the Dark side and check it out.

Perhaps they still will. WWC hasn't really kicked off yet...

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok, Castile (http://www.mediafire.com/?2pn7xarioew2u0k) is up

Igno, if you're out there, feel free to dive in and take the save. The password has been cleared for you.

[phonicsmonkey]

Welcome to the game Ignoramus, new King of Castile!

[slysnake]

If he is joining the game, then why has he not uploaded his save yet? We must be coming up to the 48 hour limmit by now...

[phonicsmonkey]

Give him a chance sly, he only decided to take over at about the time of my last post, not when the save was posted.

Plus he'll want to read up on the history and diplomatic situation of Castile and install all the various mods and patches.

Patience, there's always disruption when you replace someone but it'll be running smoothly again soon.

Speaking of which, can anyone be a very helpful soul and post all the necessary links in a single post?

I did this for Zim a few weeks ago in a PM but I have since deleted it and I don't have time to go through the thread again now as I'm at work...

[Zim]

I passed it on but there seems to be some problem with the hotseat patch link.

[phonicsmonkey]

Here's (http://www.mediafire.com/?8gnejsm2nesyskw) a new link to the hotseat patch

[Ignoramus]

Got everything, thanks. Should have the save up within a few hours.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Welcome Ignoramus! I'd wish you the best of luck, but then I'd be rooting against myself ;)

[Ignoramus]

Thanks. From what I hear, I'll need it.

For Flemish Cloth!!! :charge::charge::charge:

[Ignoramus]

Kiev's up!

http://www.mediafire.com/?8u4hpouqzju9j9f

[Cecil XIX]

Hey guys, I hear you need a player for Egypt. Mind if I fill up that spot?

[Nightbringer]

Englands up!
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hhrhwj

[Nightbringer]

Hey guys, I hear you need a player for Egypt. Mind if I fill up that spot?

I say go for it!

[slysnake]

Agreed, it would be great for Egypt to have another player, just PM phonics moneky, Im sure he will bring you up to speed with the game :)

Also, I have played my turn and have sent France's turn over msn. He will complete and upload his turn tomorrow.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Wow, we're just shooting through the turns right now, awesome :2thumbsup:

[slysnake]

I can't wait for Shogun 2, then we can play proper multiplayer campaigns without the lag that you get with Napoleon: Total War multiplayer campaigns :P

[phonicsmonkey]

I can't wait for Shogun 2, then we can play proper multiplayer campaigns without the lag that you get with Napoleon: Total War multiplayer campaigns :P

What are the NTW multiplayer campaigns like? do you all have to be online at the same time?

I'm excited about Shogun - was disappointed with ETW and I haven't tried NTW at all...


by the way guys the org has its own uploader which can be used for hotseat game files

you can access it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?catid=205#linkid8691)and use the 'add entry' button, then just copy the download link from the icon and paste it / pm it as usual

it'd be great to centralise all the hotseat files here so we can access them in archive and keep the game local, so please use the uploader!

[Nightbringer]

What are the NTW multiplayer campaigns like? do you all have to be online at the same time?

I'm excited about Shogun - was disappointed with ETW and I haven't tried NTW at all...


by the way guys the org has its own uploader which can be used for hotseat game files

you can access it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?catid=205#linkid8691)and use the 'add entry' button, then just copy the download link from the icon and paste it / pm it as usual

it'd be great to centralise all the hotseat files here so we can access them in archive and keep the game local, so please use the uploader!

I would love to do that, but i can't find any "add entry" button, where is it + what does it look like?

[slysnake]

What are the NTW multiplayer campaigns like? do you all have to be online at the same time?

I'm excited about Shogun - was disappointed with ETW and I haven't tried NTW at all...


by the way guys the org has its own uploader which can be used for hotseat game files

you can access it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?catid=205#linkid8691)and use the 'add entry' button, then just copy the download link from the icon and paste it / pm it as usual

it'd be great to centralise all the hotseat files here so we can access them in archive and keep the game local, so please use the uploader!

From what I managed to play myself, it seemed very similar to Civilisation 4 & 5, with people having a certain amount of time for each turn. It's up to the discretion of the host to decide whether or not battles can be fought, and in the case that they are, I have no idea how that would work in a campaign of more than 2 people! XD

[phonicsmonkey]

I would love to do that, but i can't find any "add entry" button, where is it + what does it look like?

On my screen it appears in the black border at the top of my screen, under the word forum and it is in plain white text...let me know if you still can't find it now

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I couldn't find any "add entry" button

Sicily's turn

http://www.mediafire.com/file/i1axzcy3re5dml9/DoW-39-Sicily.sav

[phonicsmonkey]

I couldn't find any "add entry" button

I'll look into it...

[Thanatos Eclipse]

could it be that it's something only for moderator, now that you is one :)

[phonicsmonkey]

can you try again now? Tosa did something he thinks might have fixed it.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Found it now

[phonicsmonkey]

Guys, don't forget to vote in the Hall of Fame awards!

There are several Throne Roomies (including this very game) nominated in the following categories (I paraphrase some):
- Best Hotseat Campaign (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132770-HOF-2010-Best-Hotseat-Campaign-Poll)
- Best AAR (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132783-HOF-2010-Best-Account-of-a-Battle-or-Campaign-RTW-M2TW-Poll)
- Best Throne Room contributor (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132769-HOF-2010-Best-Throne-Room-Contributor-Poll)

and others..

[Balthor]

Greetings,

and here´s the Turks (http://www.sendspace.com/file/66doxw) turn.

*salute*

[slysnake]

Greetings,

and here´s the Turks (http://www.sendspace.com/file/66doxw) turn.

*salute*

48..Hours..Imminent...*_*

[Zim]

pm....not sent. :clown:

Luckily I noticed this last night.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=8695


48..Hours..Imminent...*_*

[Balthor]

ooops my fault. I was so distracted with these KGCM mod that i forgot.

my appologies.

*salute*

[Zim]

It's not a big deal. I'm certain I've forgotten a couple times. :bow:

[phonicsmonkey]

Hey everyone, the Throne Room RPG Vassals and Valour restarts tonight at 7pm GMT.

If you're interested in joining the Reich, sign up here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?130204-V-amp-V-OOC-Signup-Thread-I) - there is at least one avatar free so the first new player can start straight away without waiting for a FM to spawn.

[Cecil XIX]

I apologize, but I've only just gotten SS6.2 to work and I won't be able to complete the save within the 48 hour deadline. I'm playing right now though, so hopefully it won't go over very much. Still, if I turn is skipped before I can complete it I won't complain.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Well..............I guess we could let it slide this one time. We'll call it extenuating circumstances or something like that, but we're watching you!!! :D

[Chaotix]

Hey guys!

I was just looking through the Throne Room for a few minutes and noticed this game was still going strong. I'd love to see where you guys are at, but there are of course no screenshots or anything...

D'you think you can outline the state of the world as of this turn so I can see how much it's changed since the mighty Venetian Empire was felled? :laugh4:

[Cecil XIX]

Well..............I guess we could let it slide this one time. We'll call it extenuating circumstances or something like that, but we're watching you!!! :D

Fuh fuh fuh... I welcome your scrutiny. :clown: http://www.mediafire.com/?mi99g8gpr34ezik


Hey guys!

I was just looking through the Throne Room for a few minutes and noticed this game was still going strong. I'd love to see where you guys are at, but there are of course no screenshots or anything...

D'you think you can outline the state of the world as of this turn so I can see how much it's changed since the mighty Venetian Empire was felled? :laugh4:

I would also appreciate this, because I have no clue how things are either.

[Nightbringer]

Here is a crude paint summery of the situation I made.
Please speak up if there are glaring inaccuracies so people can know what is going on
http://piczasso.com/i/26g5t.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

[phonicsmonkey]

That's great! except you don't mention me at all! Does this mean I should be with the Kids nobody likes? Hungary is the orange bit...

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Ahh, the poor Magyar have een left out. Doesn't that put you like lower then the kid nobody likes? You're like the kid nobody even cares enough to notices :(

[Nightbringer]

That's great! except you don't mention me at all! Does this mean I should be with the Kids nobody likes? Hungary is the orange bit...

weird, I have no clue how that happened, you are my closest ally! (Sorry!)
I think you just must be the kid who is too cool for school!
Thats why you didn't show up!

I can reupload that with you added in tomorrow morning when I'm back to that computer.
How do the borders look to everyone?

[nicuurs]

Hungary's (http://www.sendspace.com/file/s0hsqd) turn.

Good luck.

[phonicsmonkey]

The rain in spain falls mainly on the....ibero-romans? (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=8699)

by the way, this is why I love horsearchers:

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/phonicsmonkeytw/0006-3.jpg

[Ignoramus]

Save's been uploaded with Org Uploader - don't know how to access it though.

[slysnake]

Save's been uploaded with Org Uploader - don't know how to access it though.

I'm sorry to pop phonic's bubble, but I find SendSpace alot easier, quicker and simpler to use. You don't have use it, but if you want to get the next player's turn uploaded tonight, I recommend it :)

http://www.sendspace.com/

[phonicsmonkey]

the org uploader is there and the hosts of the site prefer we use it but it's more important to keep the game moving

by the way igno I don't see your file in the uploader, something must have gone wrong

[Ignoramus]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qcr2jm

[Nightbringer]

england up!
http://www.sendspace.com/file/upujnt

[slysnake]

england up!
http://www.sendspace.com/file/upujnt

Just have to complete a History case-study first. When its done I'll get right onto playing my turn and it should be uploaded sometime this evening :)

[RexLegend]

Sent save to Thanatos via PM.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sicily's turn

http://www.mediafire.com/file/82vxvd5o6778sgr/DoW-40-Sicily.sav

[slysnake]

Guys, don't forget to vote in the Hall of Fame awards!

There are several Throne Roomies (including this very game) nominated in the following categories (I paraphrase some):
- Best Hotseat Campaign (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132770-HOF-2010-Best-Hotseat-Campaign-Poll)
- Best AAR (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132783-HOF-2010-Best-Account-of-a-Battle-or-Campaign-RTW-M2TW-Poll)
- Best Throne Room contributor (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132769-HOF-2010-Best-Throne-Room-Contributor-Poll)

and others..

I voted, but the polls are not for public viewing by the looks of it :/

[phonicsmonkey]

I voted, but the polls are not for public viewing by the looks of it :/

yeah the votes are hidden but we'll know the results once they close.

[phonicsmonkey]

I will skip the Sicilian turn when I get home to keep the game moving.

[Balthor]

Greetings,

Here´s it, if the delay is accepted.

Turks (http://www.sendspace.com/file/telucl) turn.

Too many things to juggle this weekend :O

*salute*

[phonicsmonkey]

hey guys, this game won the Best Hotseat award in the Org Hall of Fame!

Congratulations to the Creator (TheLemongate) and to all players past and present for making this game great! Let's keep it up!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Go team!!!

And congrats to Phonics for best throne room contributer :D

[Zim]

The end is nigh

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=8715

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark's up. (http://www.mediafire.com/?9frfjtc6t5npcnf)

[nicuurs]

Hungary's (http://www.sendspace.com/file/cc8d2n) turn.

Good luck.

[phonicsmonkey]

Ibero-mans (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=8717)

[Ignoramus]

Kiev's up(file in the Org PBM Upload folder - I don't know how to provide the link).

[Nightbringer]

england!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/xq21ar

[slysnake]

If it is ok with phonics, I will be needing a 24 hour extension to my turn.

[phonicsmonkey]

that's fine, thanks for the heads-up

[slysnake]

Turn completed - will send to Rex over msn when he is next online.

Also, here is his turn uploaded in case he looks here first: http://www.sendspace.com/file/e6g4l7

[RexLegend]

Save has been sent to Thanatos via PM.

[phonicsmonkey]

hey everyone, would you mind posting the links to the save games in this thread? I know it seems unnecessary but it makes the game a whole lot easier to admin if I need to skip a turn, find a sub or even investigate something...

Igno, there's a button next to the file which is the download button, it has a red arrow on it - you can right click and copy the url to your clipboard.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sicily

http://www.mediafire.com/file/v2z4jdq6atwtbj5/DoW-41-Sicily.sav

[slysnake]

Is there anyway I can change my password? Im a bit obbsesive when it comes to personal security, and my current password does not really offer that security...

[phonicsmonkey]

I can reset it for you on your next turn if you remind me.

[Balthor]

Greetings,

Turks (http://www.sendspace.com/file/avn6aj) next!

*salute*

[Zim]

10 florins that's either my last or second to last turn.

Egypt.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=8738

[slysnake]

...

[slysnake]

10 florins that's either my last or second to last turn.

Egypt.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/
local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=8738

You're leaving already?!? :O

[Nightbringer]

Turkey is pretty much destroyed. Thanks for coming in and finishing them Zim. Turkey was fighting on three fronts at once, and with the constant switching of playres breaking up a coherent strategy, they were in a pretty much hopeless situation when you got them Zim.
I salute you my honorable foe!

[Zim]

Thanks.
Turkey was in a pretty bad positon, but I made some poor decisions that made things worse. Because of time limitations I autoresolved some battles I shouldn't have (and really regretted it in a recent turn). I razed buildings to pump up my military, then became squeamish when it that put me in debt, afraid I couldn't build forts (although I haven't been able to build forts anyway for some reason).

[Ignoramus]

I've also noticed that I can't build forts. Why is that?

[slysnake]

I've also noticed that I can't build forts. Why is that?

It's a known bug I sometimes get - for some reason, randomlly, one of the game files becomes corrupted, turning forts off. The same thing also happened to me with the in-game banners that you have above each unit. I'll just find you the link telling you how to fix it, should take me a few mins :)

[Nightbringer]

you need this file,
http://www.mediafire.com/?8gnejsm2nesyskw
Its a hotseat patch we are using for this game.

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark's turn. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=8740)

[nicuurs]

Hungary's (http://www.sendspace.com/file/se5ebm) turn.

Good luck.

[phonicsmonkey]

Spanish dudes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=8749)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Ignoramus, your pm box is full

[slysnake]

Ignoramus, your pm box is full

lol that reminds me, I think I'd better do the same before that happens to me to ^^

How'd you know his inbox is full anyway?

[Ignoramus]

PM Box has space now.

Kiev up!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=8752

[Thanatos Eclipse]

lol that reminds me, I think I'd better do the same before that happens to me to ^^

How'd you know his inbox is full anyway?
:lipsrsealed2:

[Nightbringer]

england up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?catid=205#linkid8766

[slysnake]

Frogs up
(http://www.sendspace.com/file/rzo07r)

[RexLegend]

Too bad. I'm too busy to complete turn in this day. Worse, i'm leaving to trip tonight. I ask extension til' end of Saturday if possible, because i come back in this day. I expect response soon, because im leaving soon.