Strategos Total War

[Old-King_CoalII]

Hello makers of Europa Barborum! I am working on a mod of my own that will occur in Greece between 500 and 150 BCE.

The reason I am coming to you is that I have used a number of your models for the mod. I need your permission to continue with the work on this project.

PS. I am just wondering, did you manage to give each factiona unique general on the battle map? I mean like, each faction with it's own general referenced to in descr_model_battle.

[Aemilius Paulus]

PS. I am just wondering, did you manage to give each factiona unique general on the battle map? I mean like, each faction with it's own general referenced to in descr_model_battle.
Actually, that is the same question that was bothering me too. I thought generals were tied to culture, not faction. So is EB the proof that they are tied to faction?

[Maion Maroneios]

Hello makers of Europa Barborum! I am working on a mod of my own that will occur in Greece between 500 and 150 BCE.
That's a very long period. Don't want to extinguish your flame of passion of this mod-in-the-making, but are you certain that you will be able to represent (efficiently and accurately) all of these:
1) The city-states of Hellas
2) The Persian Wars
3) The clash between Athens and Sparta
4) The rise of Thebes
5) The rise of Macedon
6) The conquests of Megas Alexandros
7) The splitting of Alexandros' Empire and forming of entirely new factions
8) The Diadochi Wars after Alexandros' death
9) The various civil wars and clashes between factions, as well as the emergence of several new ones
10) The Galatian campaigns in Greece and forming of a state in Anatolia
11) The rise of Rome
12) Many others as well

Maion

[Aemilius Paulus]

That's a very long period. Don't want to extinguish your flame of passion of this mod-in-the-making, but are you certain that you will be able to represent (efficiently and accurately) all of these:
1) The city-states of Hellas
2) The Persian Wars
3) The clash between Athens and Sparta
4) The rise of Thebes
5) The rise of Macedon
6) The conquests of Megas Alexandros
7) The splitting of Alexandros' Empire and forming of entirely new factions
8) The Diadochi Wars after Alexandros' death
9) The various civil wars and clashes between factions, as well as the emergence of several new ones
10) The Galatian campaigns in Greece and forming of a state in Anatolia
11) The rise of Rome
12) Many others as well

Maion is definitely right. That is more ambitious than EB. Lot of Reforms there you will have. Either that or it will be inaccurate. I would stop at least before Philip II and Alexander.

So, my question is, what will be your map scope?

[bobbin]

Actually, that is the same question that was bothering me too. I thought generals were tied to culture, not faction. So is EB the proof that they are tied to faction?

Look in descr_model_strat.txt, it controls the stratmap models and hence the FM and captain models used.

[Celtic_Punk]

I suggest you do the Persian wars and the Peloponnesian wars and maybe the rise of makedon. (maybe not... makedonia blows :beam: )

[Old_King_Coal]

ok, this is the same Old_King_Coal as before, I just lost my passand I can't get it back :(

But anyway, all you need to know is at Rome Total War heaven in the modifications thread. Look for Strategos Total War. (I'd post a link but it won't let me)

So i take it that i do have permission?

[Aemilius Paulus]

But anyway, all you need to know is at Rome Total War heaven in the modifications thread. Look for Strategos Total War. (I'd post a link but it won't let me)
Here (http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=9,8259,,10) :wink:

So i take it that i do have permission?
No, we are not the spokespeople here. Private Message Foot (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=11710) or MAA (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=17511)

[Celtic_Punk]

you could make your own campaign map aswell. Shrink it so it doesnt strench so far west and shorten its span north so you have the hellenic influenced areas to the east, and much larger to allow for a lot more strategic movement in Greece. Make sure those Spartans have some boss Corinthian helmets!

[Old_King_Coal]

ok, now that you're done blowing eachother up :P

I can get to answering these questions...

@Celtic Punk: ya I am planning on having a big map, it will be proprtionately bigger than the vanilla one so no worries for flexibility in greece. Also, the Spartans will certainly have some corinthina helmets, along with pylos and thracian helmets as well.

@Maion Maroneios: I have posted a thing to the leader guy, I'll wait for his response

I'm having a little trouble deciding what to make the regular Spartan Hoplites aka Homoioi look like. I have a number of variations, so I'll take some votes on what to do from u guys.

https://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5276/homoioiv5.jpg
ok, first one, (currently implemeted) has a pylos helmet and simple linothorax armor. Perhaps the most historical of the lot, as Spartans could never afford as good armor as other greeks since they were stuck in barracks for their military career.

https://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4659/homoioiv4.jpg
Second one, similar to the one in EB. It has a pylos helmet but a muscle cuirass. This is based of an account that the homoioi carried muscle armor given to them from the state. This is less likely because Spata was not a rich state, it would not be likely to have hoplites armed in state-provided armor.

https://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8369/homoioiv3.jpg
Third, one of my favorites :2thumbsup:. it has a Corinthian helmet and wears bronze muscle armor. Unlikely, though good looking I hope we can agree.

https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3474/homoioiv2.jpg
Much like the last except has no black paint on the helmet and has a different shield. The color-scheme on this shield is based of what reenactors and historians usually tend to feature.

well, what do you think? I cannot include them all :no:

PS don't just make your decision based on the corinthian helmets. There are plenty of those :wink:

https://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4473/hippeisguards.jpg
https://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4483/perioikoi.jpg

[Alsatia]

Nice skinning. Just wondering what is a chicken doing on the shield?

So many helmets of the same kind.

Quare volo non in achaia et macedonia esse familiaris ad aliquis romanus?

[Old_King_Coal]

ya, the chicken is based off depictions on Greek pottery, I thought it made a nice contrast to the lambda that always shows up.

btw, here is an example:
http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/BRGPOD/81947~Detail-of-a-Corinthian-Vase-Showing-a-Hoplite-Battle-circa-600-BC-Posters.jpg

[Duguntz]

Why don't you try the Theban Helmet? I think they just kick asses! It's the same helmet helmet thand those guys on the right (with the Rooster, by the way, it's no chicken at all! rooster is a symbol of freedom... chicken is a symbol of... eggs and bacon with coffee!!! hmmmmm) But the theban helmet is rather cool and was very popular in the 5th and 4th century BC along with the traditional corinthian helmet... The only difference though is that the horsehair are more elevated and the hair drops longer in the back of he warrior... Yeah, perhaps looks a bit hollywood, but historically accurate, that is for sure! (and they kick asses!)

Cheers

[Celtic_Punk]

2nd last one!!!

[Maion Maroneios]

Nice work Coal, but you didn't answer my initial question? How are you going to incluse all those changes in the Hellenic world in a single mod?

Maion

[Cute Wolf]

Good things... especially those chickens on the shields:laugh4::laugh4: LOL

Did ancient hellenes know about what "Conotative" terms "Chickens" have now?:inquisitive:

[Old_King_Coal]

@Maion: ya, i forgot your q, sorry :oops: bu I do have an answer! I believe Euopa Barborum has managed to have 2 Marian reform-type things so if u guys can do it I figure I can! But I'll need help from scripters and such

@Cute Wolf: I don't know but I doubt the Greeks would paint chickens on their shields if they mean you're a coward. lol, i dunno what they might mean to the Greeks however.

[Cute Wolf]

@ Old King Coal
They paint chickens because they want some hot chicks as plunder...

Sorry, off topic, Btw, aside from that chickens, that's nice topics... for the Spartan skin I prefer 2 kind of spartans, the lower class (with just leather armor), and The Last Muscled one,,,

[Mediolanicus]

@Maion: ya, i forgot your q, sorry :oops: bu I do have an answer! I believe Euopa Barborum has managed to have 2 Marian reform-type things so if u guys can do it I figure I can! But I'll need help from scripters and such

@Cute Wolf: I don't know but I doubt the Greeks would paint chickens on their shields if they mean you're a coward. lol, i dunno what they might mean to the Greeks however.

Military reforms is something completely different from changing faction mid-campaign as your mod would require.

And I think those would be roosters rather than just "chickens".

[Old_King_Coal]

ok, so how would I doa faction reform as you say?

[Mediolanicus]

Well, AFAIK, you can't...

That's why Maion, Aemilius and me wonder what you are going to do about that and why we think it is impossible to recreate the period between 330 and 150 BC in your mod (Persia -> Alexandrian Empire --> Diadochi States)

[Old_King_Coal]

well I wouldn't really need the diadochi, as the map dosen't have anything east of Asia Minor there is no Empire to make, as such no Empire to split apart. See what I mean? Also Macedonia and Greece were still part of the Antigonid Empire after Alexander's death.

So I'm not going to worry too much about the successors.

[Maion Maroneios]

Then I'm afraid you'll lack the necessary historical accuracy, my friend.

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

well if it's not possible there's no point in trying is there? also the map dosen't even include the places like Egypt and Syria where the Diadochi were positioned. I just can't do he Diadochi, end of story

[Maion Maroneios]

Then what are you actually going to include in your minimod? How are you going to represent:
1) The Peloponnesian Wars
2) The Iphikratean Reforms leading into the demise of Sparta
3) The rise of Thebes
4) The rise of Macedon by political and military reforms?

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

pretty much ya, and If Macedonia manages to win Greece then they can go on to conquer Asia Minor. Also ROme and Carthage are included along with Scythia and Dacia, so there's no shortage of big conflict :laugh4:

[Celtic_Punk]

Coal you know what you should do? Make the whole map greece, the aegean, and the west coast of turkey. plus all the islands and what not. and call it Hellas Totalwar (or something better than that cause that sounds like some kind of hezbolla thing and thats bad news bears hahaha). But just make it on the Pelopenesian wars. And at the begining you can add the persian invaisions with scripted army spawns or something like that. this mod could climax with the pelopenesian wars and then finish off with the rise of makedon. All your factions would be various city states that played a central military role in greece at the time. The pelopenesian wars could be started by taking advantage of the unbreakable alliance thing. Sparta and Athens could take up 2 of the roman factions and when the right date/conditions (eg. persia defeated) you could be able to start the pelopenesian wars.
I don't know what it involves, and it would probably be the biggest endeavour, but this would require a totally new campaign map and what not. (obviously)

[Aemilius Paulus]

Actually, CP, I though of that too when I saw the thread. You have a fine idea there. True, the mod will be limited, but IMHO< with only one person working on the mod, it needs to limit its ambition. Not to mention, I would love such a tight-scope mod for a change. However, is it not true a mod like this already exists? With just Greece?

Maybe not, but anyway, I also think Italia needs to be added to CP's idea. Megale Hellas it will be, plus with the Roman Kingdom/Very Early republic. And Etruscans. An important Greek colony. With that, one may also add Crimean Peninsula as well.

[||Lz3||]

Fear... the chicken... :skull:

:grin:

You cannot have a Greek mod without Syracuse. :smash:

[Celtic_Punk]

not on greece but on the isles. Arthurian Total War. I played it for a bit, then i found this and nearly died. Thoguh i really enjoyed playing as my ancestor's clan. But i kept getting clobbered.

[Old_King_Coal]

I do hope that eventually I will have a small team to help make this, and I have encountered a mod simply based off of Greece. I very much want to do this even if it takes years. I have always been an ambitious modder, in Age of Mythology with my brother I am working on a mod that completely changes the old game. So I will get this done eventually, never fear!

PS, I do have Syracuse :2thumbsup:

[Ghaust the Moor]

I can help if you'd like.

[Old_King_Coal]

oh great! what can u do?

[Ghaust the Moor]

Most stuff exept skinning and modeling (I have no method of doing such). I am currently learning how to map. So far, mapping is alot of fun

[Old_King_Coal]

ok I haven't heard batck from Foot lately, does anybody know if he's gone on vacation or something?

[Aemilius Paulus]

ok I haven't heard batck from Foot lately, does anybody know if he's gone on vacation or something?
No, he simply enjoys ignoring people :laugh4:


Actually, it probably has more to do with him discussing internally whether to grant the permission as well as him being busy with EBII. In any case, you should have Private-Messaged him, not Visitor-Messaged.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Do you have a map yet? If not, I can make it if you want.

[Old_King_Coal]

I don't have a map yet no, so I would appreciate it if you would make it. Just please make it to a bigger scale than what is in the original rtw, greece needs to have a lot of cities and settlements, same with Italy. It's a big project though, I hope you are up to it?:2thumbsup:

@ aemilius, I did private message him, haven't heard back tho

[Maion Maroneios]

Maybe you could create a Social Group dedicated to the creation of this mod? This could help you organize your work a lot.

Maion

[Ghaust the Moor]

So the map streches from sicily to the west of asia minor right? I you can, please send me a cropped map image of what you want. How far north/south does it go? You can pm me if you want.

[Old_King_Coal]

ok Ghaust the map should look something like this: https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7151/40668102.jpg

It's from google maps so the settlements won't be quite accurate, I can probably help a bit with that but it will take a large amount of research to get it as accurate as possible.

well, good luck with the map!

[Maion Maroneios]

OK, so you're going to represent the Rise of Rome as well? And what about the Persian invasion of Greece and its downfall?

Man, I don't want to put you down but I have to say this: This is going to FAIL. And miserably too. The time span is way too big to be able to represent everything. You can try, but you will fail I give my left hand for that. The RTW engine has just too many limitations. Try a shorter time period, and focus one a single even instead of so many as your mod will have to include.

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

I say you focus on either the Persian invaison of greece or on the pelopenesian wars. I'd REALLY like to see the latter, mostly because due to limitations of the RTW engine the persian advance would be retarded and I myself would lose interest when I wait for years at Thermoplyae for no battle to ever occur.

Dont let this thing die. You just need to narrow your perspective. RTW has many limitations, you need to work within these boundries and balance what you want with what is realistic and if you keep historical, You'll have at least me and Maion playing

[Old_King_Coal]

ok ya I can see that the way I'm going right now I'll spend way too much time on it and get nothing to show for it so, I'll change the plan for the project.

Rather than having it go from 500 BCE to 200 BCE including the Macedonian invasion of Persia I'll just have it go from 500 to 350 BCE ending around the time of the battle of Chaeronea.

This will remove much of the difficulty of it being impossible to have the splitting up of the macedonian faction into Seleucids Antigonids and Ptolemys but still including all the excitement of Classical age greece.

I still plan to include rome and Carthage because Carthage was often times trying to conquer Sicily, since Syracuse is included it will be important to include the Carthaginians. I also feel that Rome should stay since Tarentum is included and in order to include places like Illyria and Thrace the map needs all of Italy to be there.

I will be happy to take any suggestions to make this mod work better.

[option]

I was actually about to suggest a timespan very similar to that. You have a LOT of material to work with in those 150 years (hell, you could probably do a whole mod around the Peloponnesian War itself if you wanted to).

What factions are you going to include? You would need multiple Macedonian factions, IIRC the various tribes weren't united until Philip II came around.

[Old_King_Coal]

well since this is done mainly for BI I have had to limit what I can include. A lot of minor factions are going to be represented by rebels, for the simple reason that the space just isn't there to include more factions.

Here is a list of the planned factions:
The Illyrian tribes
The Dacian Tribes
Sparta
Syracuse
Boeoetian League
Argos
Macedon
Corinth
Achamaenid Empire
Samos
The Thracian Tribes
Athens
The Galatian Tribes
Chalkis
Scythia
Etruscans
Rome
Carthage
Tarentum
Epiros

Most of this list is flexible and I will happily take suggestions.

PS. would anybody be willing to help me put a website together to help preview this mod? Kinda like the one Europa Barborum has (only not as detailed) so that I can upload new stuff and the public can see it. Can anybody help with the process of making a site?

[Ghaust the Moor]

You can go to webs.com and make a free one for now. You can always make a fancy one later on.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Also, I want to suggest the Basilion Bosporou (Spelling?) A.K.A Kingdom of the Bosporas, or Bosporan Kingdom. I don't know which it is.

[Old_King_Coal]

Thank for the tip Ghaust I'll look into it. I also really want to include Samos Island as a kind of emerging faction after a few years. I plan to have it as an army that comes up near the major settlement (held by Persia) and try to take it. I just feel that this would be very interesting and a good challenge for anybody who likes a bit of rebellion.

Oh and PS. I started a site at wps.com, there's not much there yet and I'll add more later but here's the link: http://foozle.webs.com/

PPS. the contact me thing dosen't work yet (I think) I'll get that going soon enough

[Ghaust the Moor]

You should edit the text on the site. It is hard to read.

edit: oh never mind. It hadn't loaded the back yet. Sorry

[Old_King_Coal]

hm, so the site is OK?

[Ghaust the Moor]

Yeah, its good. Does the contact thing work now?

[Old_King_Coal]

I'm not sure actually, I can't change it so I guess it might already know, could u test it out and see if it does work?

[Ghaust the Moor]

I sent you a message via contact, tell me if you got it.

[Old_King_Coal]

Ok it worked perfectl, thanks for doing it!

And to help bring more interest into the mod I put a thing on youtube so check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O18fB1PE_bo

[Maion Maroneios]

I believe some touches could be applied. For example, the fighting system should be reworked and tested to effectively represent the very few casualties of Greek hoplite battles and, secondly, the phalanx warfare in its own. Heck, I am even motivated to help with this. I could work on unit descriptions, and modify/test the battle system. What do you say?

Also, I suggest you cover the Peloponnesian War mostly. Did you say this will be on BI? Because oif it is, we have some interesting formations as a plus, not to mention emerging, re-emerging and "shadow" factions.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I can also contribute to everything Greek-related (like unit and city names) in the game.

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

Thanks Maion any help you can give would be marvelous, just sign up on the site and notify me on whatever files you can help edit.

I think we may be able to achieve the few casualties thing by having absolutely wicked armor stats but normal attack stats, they would also be very expensive so that large greek armies are rare, what do you think?

[Maion Maroneios]

I have several ideas of implementing this. Good armour, but weak attack and spear lethality. Also, I can try and tweak AI formations by making them have all hoplites in guard formation. This way, we can represent the "phalanx". Another idea would be the 0.2 radius, but I am against it since it makes the units very strong.

Also, you didn't answer my question. Will this mod use the BI executable?

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

this is intended for BI yes ut it should be compatible with the original version, how aout I let u play around with the export descr_unit stuff to figure something out?

[Maion Maroneios]

I'd have to have everything in my possession to work with the files. This includes the units as well, for I won't be able to run any test battles otherwise.

And if this will use the BI executable, there are some nice things we can do with the additional features like hoarding, re-emerging and emerging factions, shadow and shadowed factions, as well as the loyalty and religions system. So many ideas, it just needs people with determination and time to test all this.

Also, what about focusing more on Greece herself instead of including so much of the west and east? This way, you will have lot less to worry about when it comes to unit diversity and research that has to be done for each included faction. You could, for example, move the map more to the east and exclude the Romans since the Wars of Rome over dominance of Italy will have to be implemented as well.

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

i really feel that the map we have now is going to stay, I am aware that a lot of research will have to be done but that's cool with me! I have more stuff in the mod now than can be included in 1 hotmail email so how about I give you a diversity of units (not all) and you work from there?

PS. I will need ur hotmail thingy

[Maion Maroneios]

I've sent you an e-mail along with my message on the site. If it isn't included, you'll probably see it on my membership status. I'm willing to test hoplite warfare for now, I have some ideas that might work.

Maion

[vartan]

I recommend Box.net (http://www.box.net/) for online collaboration (i.e. for files, etc). I've used it for large projects (e.g. programs).

[Old_King_Coal]

can you include forums in it?

PS Maion how's things going with the hoplitees stuff?

and Ghaust will u need me to include cities or will they come later?

[Ghaust the Moor]

Cities would be nice, but I don't need them.

[Maion Maroneios]

can you include forums in it?

PS Maion how's things going with the hoplitees stuff?

and Ghaust will u need me to include cities or will they come later?
Haven't started doing the tests yet. Will do so today, though don't expect things to get ready too soon. I am, after all, on vacation and I'm only doing this on my (scarse) leisure time.

As for the cities, you should consider doing some research on the most important cities of each region during the starting date. I could give you a list of cities that could be added in mainland Greece.

Maion

[Subotan]

First, this is a great idea for a mod, but there are some things which you need to be aware of.


well since this is done mainly for BI I have had to limit what I can include. A lot of minor factions are going to be represented by rebels, for the simple reason that the space just isn't there to include more factions.

Here is a list of the planned factions:
The Illyrian tribes
The Dacian Tribes
The Thracian Tribes
The Galatian Tribes
Scythia
Etruscans
Tarentum

Rome


These factions would all need to be split up into lots of mini factions, or given more detailed names, especially the Illyrians, Etruscans and Tarentum. I'm sure you'll have already done some research, but go to your local university library and ask for stuff about Ancient Greece. They'll have tons of stuff, and more importantly, potential factions, unit designs and the like. Luckily, MTW:II Gives you LOADS more factions slots, and a better AI. There's no point in making a mod for RTW when it's five year old.
P.S. Rome was just a village by the strart of this mod, and by the end was a moderatly sized city state, so it's probably not worth including.

[Old_King_Coal]

I don't own M2TW so I'm not planning on using it. Also I realize that the factions would be split up but I really don't have the room to include those extra things. I would if I could :(

and I feel that Rome does have a place here since Tarentum is in Italy, also since the map has to be rectangular in shape you need to include all of Italy to have scythia and the Bosphoros. So i feel that Rome is there to stay

[Subotan]

I don't own M2TW so I'm not planning on using it.

You could get it for about a fiver. Srsly, working with RTW now is like being a saddle designer around the time the Model T came out.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Medieval-II-Total-War-DVD/dp/B000ENN9AG
http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-II-Total-War-Pc/dp/B000FUONLM

To be fair, you'll probably want Kingdoms, but it's a small price to pay for making a great game. Besides, you'll have to buy it anyway when EBII comes out :D



and I feel that Rome does have a place here since Tarentum is in Italy, also since the map has to be rectangular in shape you need to include all of Italy to have scythia and the Bosphoros. So i feel that Rome is there to stay
The Etruscans/Samnites/Megale Hellas states/Syracuse and Carthage should cover Italy :2thumbsup:

[Zarax]

You could get it for about a fiver. Srsly, working with RTW now is like being a saddle designer around the time the Model T came out.


Except that if you count the expansions no mod has yet managed to fully use the entire feature set.

[Old_King_Coal]

Srsly, working with RTW now is like being a saddle designer around the time the Model T came out.


I dunno I still like it, I'll probably move on to M2TW someday but for now I'll start off with Rome and get some skills and improve my talents.

[Subotan]

M2TW is essentially RTW with baubles on top. You're only shooting yourself in the foot if you don't use M2TW.

[Ghaust the Moor]

More mods have been made for RTW because it is easier to use. Simple as that. Name one really important mod for M2TW?

[Old_King_Coal]

Ya I agree with Ghaust I looked over the modding guides in M2TWH and they are quite complex. I'm not interested in something that difficult at this point.

[Maion Maroneios]

Guys, all interested members please subscribe to this Social Group:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=93

Maion

[Subotan]

More mods have been made for RTW because it is easier to use. Simple as that.
Really? I was not aware of that.


Name one really important mod for M2TW
...EBII. Duh. :smash:

Guys, all interested members please subscribe to this Social Group:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=93

Maion
Does interested include people who can't do :daisy: with modding, but are interested in this mod?

[Maion Maroneios]

I guess those who are going to work for the mod. All the rest can just write their supporting posts here :beam:

Maion

[Ghaust the Moor]

Shouldn't we make a thread in the mods forum now?

[Maion Maroneios]

If we get enough members, I guess we could apply for the creation of such a thread.

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

it would be great if we had enough people to make a thread, but the requirement post dsen't say how many members are required to be considered. Maybe we could try it?

[Azathoth]

Name one really important mod for M2TW

Dominion of the Sword, Deus lo Volt, Broken Crescent, Stainless Steel, Third Age: Total War...

And about the Galatian tribes...they were under the control of the Achaemenids, weren't they?

The Celtic Galatians didn't settle there until like 280 BC.

[Maion Maroneios]

You can apply for a subforum to be created and I have (for a PBM game), but the Moderators require lots of organization, motivation and enough members. Trust me.

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

@Maion: ok I guess It'll be a while before we can go there. Let's just putter around here and in the group

@Azathoth: I should probabl change galatians to celts. As they were independant. They also have very good place in this mod as the Celtic King Brenneus attempted to take Greece in 279 BCE.

[Skullheadhq]

Somebody needs my help here?
And really, kingdoms is very much the same thing and you have 10 extra faction slots. So you could do all city states you want.

And how much provinces are we going to do?
What is the start date?

Here's map of 550BC
http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_550bc.jpg

[Maion Maroneios]

Yeah King, Skullheadhq and satalexton want to help. I guess both of you guys should state what you can help with, this helps organizing the work. Also, if you do get into the team I can add you to the Social Group.

Maion

[Subotan]

How much harder is Kingdoms to mod than RTW? Is it proportional to the benefits you can get out of the upgrade?

[Phalanx300]

I you guys want to make the mod go ahead, be sure to go Historical. :2thumbsup:

I think I'll stick with Hegemonia for now.

If you guys need any information on Sparta you can give be a call. :sweatdrop: I've noticed you guys took the bodyguard emblem for a whole unit, I suggest to use them for the officers to represent the two bodyguards better!

[Skullheadhq]

I can help with the load screens, text files, UI, banners.
But I can't skin or 3d model

[Foot]

@Azathoth: I should probabl change galatians to celts. As they were independant. They also have very good place in this mod as the Celtic King Brenneus attempted to take Greece in 279 BCE.

The celts didn't even arrive in asia minor until the 270s BC, so they were neither subjects of the persian king or free people. They weren't even there!

Foot

[Skullheadhq]

What do you think of this map?

https://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4948/strategostotalwar.png

And in 550 this happened: (yeah its wikipedia didn't have time really)
559 BC — King Cambyses I of Anshan dies and is succeeded by his son Cyrus II the Great.
558 BC — Hegesias is removed as Archon of Athens.
558 BC — The Chinese state of Jin defeats its rival Qin in battle.
556 BC — Pisistratus is exiled from Athens to Euboea.
556 BC — Labashi-Marduk succeeds Neriglissar as king of Babylon.
556 BC/555 BC — Nabonidus succeeds Labashi-Marduk as king of Babylon.
c. 550 BC — Colonisation of Greeks ends.
550 BC — Abdera is destroyed by the Thracians.
550 BC — The Temple of Artemis completed in Ephesus.
550 BC — Cyrus II the Great overthrows Astyages of the Medes, establishing the Persian Empire.

So in 550 we could include the Persian Empire

[Old_King_Coal]

@foot: by celts I am referring to a different group that lves just north-east of the veneti, not the galatians.

@skull: Ok I'm sure we'd all appreciate ur help. could u get working on some banners for the various poleis and other states? Also we have a moajor campaign map but I think it would be a great idea to have a number of other maps for provincial campaigns. Like on just for greece, carthage and sicily etc.

please note that this mod is not intended as competition for Hegemonia, the focus for this project is on Greek influences and areas they affected.

PS how in jumping juniper bushes do I change my avatar?

[Azathoth]

But...there aren't any Celts in that map. You've got Greek colonies like Syracuse, Italic natives, and not much else in Italy. Rome, Carthage, and the northern Black Sea aren't there either!

And there's also a problem with only giving the Achaemenids Anatolia - what about the rest of the empire, which includes Armenia, Assyria, Egypt, Greater Iran, Bactria, etc?

They'll just be pushovers otherwise, and it seems unlikely that the Achaemenid King wouldn't try to retake his lost provinces (or allow the title of satrap to become hereditary!).

It'll be like the Seleucids in vanilla RTW.

[Old_King_Coal]

oh I know that's just a suggestion by skull, I kinda like it so we may implement it into a provincial campaign.

But this is what the current Imperial campaign map will be looking like: https://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5994/90491008medium.jpg

I'm still working on outlining the regions but it's half done

[Skullheadhq]

I think we should keep it smaller, else we have an very little persian empire at the start.
I think we could better do the Persians as an emergent faction when it will destroy the Lydian Empire. Also, We should keep our focus on the Greek World.

[Subotan]

Geographically, the map doesn't have to be exact. All that matters is that the relative powers of the era are represented accurately, and a deformed map can be a good way to do this, particularly regarding sea travel.
My proposal
https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/Phalanxia/Lolmap.jpg
Obviously, with massigve provinces in Thrace and Anatolia, to better the relect the density of Ancient Greece.

[Skullheadhq]

Apply for forum/thread?

The Sparta Faction symbol:
https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6340/shield4aho1.jpg

[Cute Wolf]

dude, I suggest you include area behind romans, alps, and Patavium (land connectin Megale Hellas with Hellas).... along with all area include Nowdays Israel and Jordania, that connectin with egypt and Karthadast... with that, you'll get better AI movement (bet in y map, Karthadast and Romani AI will just hang themself up like Casse...

[Subotan]

dude, I suggest you include area behind romans, alps, and Patavium (land connectin Megale Hellas with Hellas).... along with all area include Nowdays Israel and Jordania, that connectin with egypt and Karthadast... with that, you'll get better AI movement (bet in y map, Karthadast and Romani AI will just hang themself up like Casse...

I deliberately did not include Canaan etc, so you would not have a massive Persian empire that would annihilate everything. Besides, the Greeks didn't colonise over in that direction, and that's the same reasoning behind me not including Libya and Patavium and the Dacian coast, as this is a Greek mod.

[Cute Wolf]

so i suggest you to get your mod on alex.... or the romans will start sitting down and sleeps like Casse

[Skullheadhq]

Suggestions:

Mytilene
Athenai
Lydia
Argos
Korinthos
Achaemenids (emergent)
Rhodos
A Cretan faction (Maion do you know something for Crete)
Sparta
Thebes
Macedon
Syracuse
Croton
Taras
Etruscans
Byzantium (?)

Start date:250 B.C

BI.exe

[Old_King_Coal]

250 BCE is a bit too early, I'm still planning on using my map for the full campaign map but using a number of other maps for provincial campaigns. Also this mod is not so much focused on Greek colonisation but on Greek influences.

I like the idea of an emergent Persia destroying the Lydian Empire, but I still with to include much of the Persian Empire.

[Skullheadhq]

You mean, a map like Alexander Total War, but then more provinces?
That would be an huge huge project. I'd say we keep it in Greece, Megale Hellas and Mikra Asia.

Here look at this sweety:
Persian Empire:https://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2136/symbol128persians.gif
Korinthos:https://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2110/symbol128corinth.gif
Sparta:https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5055/symbol128sparta.gif

[Phalanx300]

The best Sparta emblem would be the Bodyguard emblem, it was very important for the Spartans, always going before the king.

[Maion Maroneios]

Emblem is just fine. It should represent something most people (even those who don't know much about their history) can identify them with easily. The Lambda represents that best.

Maion

[Phalanx300]

Emblem is just fine. It should represent something most people (even those who don't know much about their history) can identify them with easily. The Lambda represents that best.

Maion

Thats true, but EB isn't doing that as well right? I think its best to go Historical.



You mean, a map like Alexander Total War, but then more provinces?
That would be an huge huge project. I'd say we keep it in Greece, Megale Hellas and Mikra Asia.

Here look at this sweety:
Persian Empire:
Korinthos:
Sparta:

Korininthos picture is an Spartan shield. Apparantly the Pegasus was a popular picture in Korinthos.

[Skullheadhq]

Something like this?

https://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1264/symbol128thebes.gif

[Maion Maroneios]

Thats true, but EB isn't doing that as well right? I think its best to go Historical.
We're not EB, so we are going to decide about that. Possibility's there, of course.

Maion

[Phalanx300]

We're not EB, so we are going to decide about that. Possibility's there, of course.

Maion

Depends if you guys want to teach true history here like EB.

[Maion Maroneios]

Something like this?

https://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1264/symbol128thebes.gif
Good, are you making these yourself?

Maion

[Skullheadhq]

What do you guys think about this load screen:
https://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8273/loadingscreen1.gif

[Phalanx300]

Nice, though if the mod stops at Chaoronea then I don't think its really the best choice, Hoplites would probably be a better choice. :2thumbsup:

[Old_King_Coal]

so wait those are phalangites? well that's quite nice but I feel that hoplites would suit better, either that or the map itself.

Also u can base some of your faction symbols off of coins, since they often show symbols that were important to the Poleis
here's a good site to look that up: http://www.coinarchives.com/a/

Also would the community like it if I posted the most recent units in this forum? or in the group? or in the site?

and as for my view on the Spartan icon, I feel that the tower (the bodyguard emblem) would actually suit better as it was so important to the city.

and i hate to say this skull but some of those emblems do look like they were taken from the internet and aren't quite original... (I have seen them when looking around for inspiration on the shields) How about taking the icons directly from th coins and placing them on a colored background?

PS: I found this image of a coin from one of the cities near Macedon, and I'm planning on using the symbol on the bottom on a shield. But I can't figure it out, can somebody help me determine what it is?http://imagedb.coinarchives.com/img/cng/081/image00266.jpg

[Skullheadhq]

Ok I'm going to use those coins thanks King_coal

Say if you don't like it:
https://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7981/symbol128corinth.jpg Corinth

Here is the coin:http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=262996&AucID=391&Lot=483

Load Screens:
https://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2847/loadingscreenm.jpg/
https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4294/loadingscreen1.jpg/
https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7906/loadingscreen2.jpg/
https://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7258/loadingscreen3.jpg/
https://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6157/loadingscreen4.jpg/
https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6633/loadingscreen5.jpg/
https://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6/loadingscreen6.jpg/
https://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4603/loadingscreen8.jpg/
https://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1902/loadingscreen9.jpg/
https://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5588/loadingscreen10.jpg/
https://img269.imageshack.us/img269/568/loadingscreen11.jpg/

[Maion Maroneios]

PS: I found this image of a coin from one of the cities near Macedon, and I'm planning on using the symbol on the bottom on a shield. But I can't figure it out, can somebody help me determine what it is?http://imagedb.coinarchives.com/img/cng/081/image00266.jpg
The one side of it depicts someone, the other depicts the mythical beast called "Hydra". Hope that helped.

Maion

[Old_King_Coal]

@Skull that is extraordinaril well done thank ou! And I think we should use the Spartan shieldwall as our start thing but m second favorite would have to be the Parthenon. It might be a good idea to turn all of those into loading screens.

@Maion I thought it might have been the Hdra it's just that I often see it as a kind of dinosaur with lots of heads and not a snake. thanks

[Skullheadhq]

Faction suggestion:

Athenian Alliance:
Athenai
Ionian Cities
Kroton

Spartan Alliance/Trade Rights:
Argos
Korinthos
Sparta (Doric dialect=Sparta, not Spartè)
Syrakousai
Taras
Lydia
Thebes

Non Aligned:
Macedon
Cilicia
Epeiros
Carthage
Roma
Etrusci
Egypt
Babylon
Persia
Krètè

Ok that's 20 beautiful factions in 550 B.C
https://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5035/mapfactions.png
https://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5192/mapfactions2.png

[vartan]

1) It isn't necessary to have all 20 faction slots filled.

2) Why do you have Cilicia on your list Skullheadhq? Tabal Kingdom and Quwê Kingdom, the ancient kingdoms in or around Cilicia, both ended around 7th or 6th centuries BCE, and the next major kingdom in Cilicia was the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, nonexistant until its birth in the later part of the 11th century CE.

[Skullheadhq]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Median_Empire.jpg
:yes:

[Skullheadhq]

What do you guys think about my Macedonian faction symbol.
https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/816/symbol128macedon.jpg

[Cute Wolf]

What do you guys think about my Macedonian faction symbol.
https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/816/symbol128macedon.jpg

Makedon in Vanilla Alex! Love that...:egypt:


https://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1902/loadingscreen9.jpg/

That gonna be my newest wallpaper! :laugh2:

[Old_King_Coal]

I love the faction symbol but I still feel that the map goes waaaaaaaaaaaaay too far east, let's concentrate on the west and stick to the current faction list. Like stop going the map in the east at the eastern shore of the black sea and stop at the west at Massilia

[Maion Maroneios]

Sounds like a good idea. Any time span yet? Remember, it shouldn't include too much as we will hit the impenetrable wall of RTW engine limitations...

Maion

[Skullheadhq]

Sounds like a good idea. Any time span yet? Remember, it shouldn't include too much as we will hit the impenetrable wall of RTW engine limitations...

Maion

550BC-End of Pelopponesian War?

[Maion Maroneios]

OK, but will we be able to accurately represent the Persian Wars and Rise of Rome? Because both events require lots of scripting, especially regarding the various military reforms that factions underwent. OKC?

Maion

[Skullheadhq]

Think so.

[Old_King_Coal]

I feel that the timeframe should be 500 BCE to 330 BCE just after the battle of Chaeronea and the establishment of macedonian hegemony

and we should try to be as histroical as possible so a lot of reforms will be required, I'm pretty sure it's possible to have more than one

[Phalanx300]

EB can do it so its possible to have multiple reforms, for Sparta one that includes Cavalry and Ekdromoi to their list would be good. One perhaps for the Sacred Band of Thebes? And for Peltast units of nations who started to use them in big numbers?

[Old_King_Coal]

absolutely, but I think we can focus more on the units and the balancing of the game more at the moment with the reforms coming later

[Skullheadhq]

Croton:
https://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4860/symbol128croton.gif
Syracuse:
https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5460/symbol128syracuse.gif
Say if you guys don't like it.

Want to include Babylonia or Massalia?

[Old_King_Coal]

Those are looking good skull, just I'm wondering why you are having icons from factions we haven't planned.

And Babylonia is too far east for this, we'll need to do some map re-working so massilia is included (massilia won't be a faction so don't worry about it)

[strategos roma]

I think that the map should include southern Italy, Sicily, Greece, southern Thrace, Macedon, the Aegean islands and Anatolia.

Factions can include: Sparta, Athens, Achaean League, Thebes, Aetolian League, Macedon, Eretria, Paeonians, Epirus, Taras, Syracuse, Miletus, Thracians and the Persian Empire (non-playable). You can represent the Persian Invasion by scripting several armies to invade Greece at a specified year and the Carthaginians by periodically spawning armies from Lilibeo.

As for reforms, you should have two, one representing the lightening of Hoplite equipment during the Peloponnesian War and the other representing the readopting of the full Hoplite panoply.

Finally, I really think you should cut the time span so that it begins just after the Ionian revolt starts and in the year of Alexander’s the Great accession of the throne.

[Ghaust the Moor]

I'M BACK!!!!! YAAAAAYYYYYY....I know, I stupidly failed to maention that I would be gone for three weeks, but I am back now. Sorry for any inconveniances.

[tls5669]

Name one really important mod for M2TW?


Broken Crescent.

And M2TW:K has a bunch of good ones. i.e Stainless Steel.

[KingBobertVII]

if this ever takes off, this sounds pretty neat. But I too wonder how it will fare, considering you are insistent upon using Rome Total War, and not Medieval 2. Your choice, of course, but I must point out that it would make this SO much easier and smoother. Rome Total War is a much more limited engine, and there are so many small little things nicer with M2. For instance, when cavalry charge in RTW, they don't switch from their lances to their secondaries always, and this makes it imperative to Alt+Click on charging. However, Medieval makes all cavalry units switch from Lances to their secondary weapons automatically, to avoid being chopped to pieces should you forget to hold Alt. Many other little fixes and nice things like that would help you, and you would also get nicer graphics, and a more stable game to be honest. RTW quite honestly wasn't ever really FINISHED. Hence the random crashes and strange happenings that occur. Medieval has FAR less of that type of junk.

But, the choice is yours. Enjoy your modding, whichever decision you make. I'll most certainly give it a spin if it is ever finished.

[Old_King_Coal]

Well things are going well in the mod, we have a lot of work done, but there is still a large amount of work to do. I am wondering if anybody is interested in offering help. We especially need help from historical experts, modelers and playtesters.

Contact me at bananaheadman@hotmail.com

PS. we will likely make a strategos 2 for Medieval much Eb is making a second version for Medieval

[IrishHitman]

I suggest you do the Persian wars and the Peloponnesian wars and maybe the rise of makedon. (maybe not... makedonia blows :beam: )

Says a man with a Casse signature...
They're quite possibly the worst faction in the game, Saba aside..

[mountaingoat]

And M2TW:K has a bunch of good ones. i.e Stainless Steel.

got this up and running a few days ago and it is quite an awesome mod ... kind of showing how you can mod mtw2 , and with EB2 gets up and running ....... :yes:

[Ludens]

King Coal, you are aware that leaving your e-mail address on the internet is a good way to get a mailbox filled with spam? There apparently are bots scouring the web for such addresses. You can use the PM facility of the .Org, or if you have to use the e-mail at least write it down in such a way that bots don't recognize it, for example:

banana headman (at) hotmail (dot) com

BTW, just replacing @ with (at) and . with (dot) is probably not sufficient anymore, as mail bots are getting more clever as well.

[The General]

https://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1902/loadingscreen9.jpg

Sorry for the OT, but would anyone happen to know what is the subject of that painting?

[Sanzam]

Hey, guys, do you know when the game will be released, or if it is, can you give me the link?

[Ludens]

Hey, guys, do you know when the game will be released, or if it is, can you give me the link?

The Strategos Total War forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?290-Strategos-total-War) has been dead for a long time, and AFAIK there is no release. As for Hegemonia: there is a mod of the same name active at the TWC (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=99), but I have no idea whether it's the same project.

Welcome to the .Org, BTW ~:wave: .

[Folgore]

Sorry for the OT, but would anyone happen to know what is the subject of that painting?
If anyone still cares after 2 years, the painting is Jean-Léon Gérôme's 'Phryne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phryne) before the Areopagus', 1861.