Hitting Women

[coalition]

Is it always a bad thing?

This is a very difficult subject. Something I always had a problem with is that it is socially acceptable for a woman to slap a man but if the man did the same thing then it isn't socially acceptable.

Naturally violence of all sorts is bad, and I don't plan to hit anybody at any time, but why is it so black and white that hitting a female is a heinous offense?

I like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

[tibilicus]

Well it depends, if your being physically attacked by a women, I mean physically being punched in the face or something similar then it would be perfectly acceptable IMO to hit a women in self defence.

That's pretty much the only time it's socially acceptable though.

[coalition]

Well it depends, if your being physically attacked by a women, I mean physically being punched in the face or something similar then it would be perfectly acceptable IMO to hit a women in self defence.

That's pretty much the only time it's socially acceptable though.
Yes but if a women punched a man and the man retaliated, there is a bigger chance that the bloke is going to get into bigger shits later on (Friends, trust) ...I don't know why society has adapted to this style.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's rarely socially acceptable for a woman to slap a man.

[KukriKhan]

Hitting Women
Is it always a bad thing?

Always.

Very occasionally (rarely) defensible, but always a bad thing.

:twocents:

[Centurion1]

While i find it weird that women want "equal" rights while still getting extra perks, you cant hit a woman. Because no matter how much they talk about being equal in every way they simply arent going to be as strong on average as a normal male. What you should do if a girl hits you is run away, or restrain them witout knockin their block off lol

[Scurvy]

headshot ^^

[Strike For The South]

No point, much eaiser to walk away.

[Lemur]

To the Backroom awaaaaaay ...

[rajpoot]

No point, much eaiser to walk away.

My thoughts exactly....come on....after all she's a woman! You hold both her thin white arms in one huge hand and ask her to lay off :P

Edit : And anyway, if she's hysterical enough to start hitting someone, then chances are she'll be weeping bucket loads ten minutes later....and one doesn't want to be around then.

[Husar]

I fought with girls in primary school quite often and it was perfectly acceptable because we all equally kicked and hit eachother. For us kids that is, the teachers wouldn't have found any of it acceptable of course.

Grown up people usually shouldn't hit eachother anyway, IMO it all depends on the situation, if the woman deserves it(cheated on him or something) and the man doesn't slap her really hard, but more like a symbolic slap that hurts a bit, then why not?

[Kralizec]

If someone hits you first, you're pretty much entitled to hit him or her back. Within reason, i.e. an eye for an eye.
It's considered wrong to proactively start a physical fight but even moreso if you start one with someone who is obviously less strong than you. A soldier on leave who totally trashes a skinny 18 year old bloke in a bar would be in the wrong too.

I'm sure that old rules like "a gentlemen never hits a women" have different origins but it still applies because of the logic above, I think.

[Viking]

This is a very difficult subject.

What's the difficult part? When assaulted and it's found necessary to hit back; hit. Otherwise, do not. What's the problem?

[seireikhaan]

She had better be coming after you with a knife or other weapon that seriously endangers your life. Otherwise, you do not hit a woman.

[Lemur]

Confession: I was with a woman when I was younger (this would be around the time of the Civil War), when she slapped me. Hard. I was completely surprised. I looked at her and asked, "What the **** was that about?"

She giggled and slapped me again. Hard. When she saw the look of shock and confusion on my face, she broke into full-out laughter.

Enough. I said, "Look, if you do that again I will hit you back."

She slapped my face again, just as hard as before. So I punched her in the gut.

She doubled over and began weeping, demanding to know what I had hit her. "Because you were ******* hitting me!" I said.

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

Nah, that's perfectly reasonable. Which is why the "never hit a woman" kneejerk reaction is off the mark.

I probably would have just smacked her on the shoulder after 2nd one.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Confession: I was with a woman when I was younger (this would be around the time of the Civil War), when she slapped me. Hard. I was completely surprised. I looked at her and asked, "What the **** was that about?"

She giggled and slapped me again. Hard. When she saw the look of shock and confusion on my face, she broke into full-out laughter.

Enough. I said, "Look, if you do that again I will hit you back."

She slapped my face again, just as hard as before. So I punched her in the gut.

She doubled over and began weeping, demanding to know what I had hit her. "Because you were ******* hitting me!" I said.

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

I wouldn't have hit her, but I can see why you did.

Unless a woman is armed with a deadly weapon I wouldn't strike her. In fact, even in that instance I'd probably twist her wrist and try not to break it.

Why did she slap you the first time?

[rotorgun]

I think that our aversion to hitting women stems from the Christian philosophy of "give honor to the woman, as the weaker vessel" etc. This was a core ideal as well of the Chivalric Code of the Middle ages. Let's face it guys, our mothers, with the willing cooperation of our fathers in a normal family scenario, teach us pretty early on that this is a taboo. I slapped out at my mother once after she had administered a well deserved blow for something that I said out of the way. I soon thought that the world was coming to an end!

It's referred to as Elephant Training by my wife, who so thoroughly intimidated both of our sons in their childhood years, that all she has to do now is raise her backhand to illicit immediate surrender. She is such a drill sergeant!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hmm. I think Lemur's response was appropriate.

But you never hit first, nor hit them in response to one slap. One should be in danger of more than a little pain.

CR

[Lemur]

Why did she slap you the first time?
Based on the giggles and the laughter, apparently she thought it was funny. Which I supposed it would have been if she wasn't hitting so darn hard.

I certainly support the notion that a man should never, ever initiate violence with a woman. It's uncalled-for and unfair. But I can easily imagine situations in which self-defense would call for more than a gentle talking-down.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I'ts much more devastating to call them fat or ugly. You'd be suprised how sharp those 2 words are even to grown women.

If women are our equals and they pose some sort of a threat, I say annihilate; just as I would with a man who posed a threat. Name calling is less of a legal liability and more poignant, though. Political correctness ends where a woman thinks she has cart blanche.

There is almost no reason ever to hit the average woman or any woman that you are in a relationship with.

[rotorgun]

So I said to a red-neck, "What do ya say to a wumern with a black eye?"

He replied, "Nuthin', I toled her once alllllllready!"

PS: Just kiddin' ya'll!

[Major Robert Dump]

I lived with a woman once who would hit me when she got drunk or mad. I would have bruises a lot and people would ask me what happened and I would tell them I fell down the stairs. I was very ashamed of what was going on and terrified people would find out, but I loved her and knew she only beat me because she loved me, too.

But once the news got out the embarrassment sent me into a rage. I ordered pizza for dinner again because I was short on time, and when she came home from her job at the shipyard she yelled "Pizza for dinner again?" and chased me under the bed, dragged me out and beat me with a piece of broken wood that was once a chair until she hit me with it.

We were busted by my parents, who saw my bruises and then pointed out that my one-story apartment had no stairs. That night I went home and she was drunk and started hitting me so I kicked her in the nuts, had the police come arrest her and got her Harley towed the next day.

[Husar]

Confession: I was with a woman when I was younger (this would be around the time of the Civil War), when she slapped me. Hard. I was completely surprised. I looked at her and asked, "What the **** was that about?"

She giggled and slapped me again. Hard. When she saw the look of shock and confusion on my face, she broke into full-out laughter.

Enough. I said, "Look, if you do that again I will hit you back."

She slapped my face again, just as hard as before. So I punched her in the gut.

She doubled over and began weeping, demanding to know what I had hit her. "Because you were ******* hitting me!" I said.

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

She didn't wear black leather clothes and high heels, did she?

[Beskar]

I like the assumptions that all women are thin little defenceless sticks against a big burly-men. I mean, have you never thought of it possibly being more like this? -
https://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6656/wifehusband.jpg

That is the funny problem of it all. You are automatically assuming of it being big burly men versus weak women. It is this mindnumbing similar picture which is why domestic violence against men is the most under-reported crime as if it is ever brought up, it is seen as a weak woman dominating a man (a joke mental picture making fun of it), or the man's "boyfriend" doing it. Even the police have the same picture. It even goes into the same categories of male rape, where it is even classified as a "gay crime" (man against man) even though there are incidents of males being raped (usually young boys with a lot older aged woman.) Even high profile cases are seen as a "one-off" by such as Myra Hindley.

[Kadagar_AV]

I'm with Lemur on this one...

In my grown up life I have had 2 women hitting me (both "girlfriends" more or less).

First one was really hysterical, we actually broke up because she could not handle alcohol. I just blocked whatever she did untill she calmed down...



Second was sober-ish...

I did same as Lemur... After she hit me once I warned her... Second time I told her that if she repeated it I would hit her back. Third go around I gently pushed a finger against her solor plexus...

She didn't take the hint, so fourth time around I hit her rather hard (but not all out) in the solar plexus..

I watched her on the floor a few sec before I helped her up and gave her a glass of water... She never hit me again.

However, I'm kind of ashamed of it... She took it the right way, realised she had done wrong.... Most girls however would find a way to discredit the man.

So no, I wouldnt argue it is ever right to hit a woman... of course it might be RIGHT, it#s just not the logical thing to do as you might very well come out of the conflict in second place no matter what she did.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Confession: I was with a woman when I was younger (this would be around the time of the Civil War), when she slapped me. Hard. I was completely surprised. I looked at her and asked, "What the **** was that about?"

She giggled and slapped me again. Hard. When she saw the look of shock and confusion on my face, she broke into full-out laughter.

Enough. I said, "Look, if you do that again I will hit you back."

She slapped my face again, just as hard as before. So I punched her in the gut.

She doubled over and began weeping, demanding to know what I had hit her. "Because you were ******* hitting me!" I said.

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

Some guys pay good money for that....er...never mind.

It's never a good thing to hit a woman, but after the first unprovoked slap...well, if you want to be treated like a lady you better start acting like one.

[HoreTore]

Is it always a bad thing?

This is a very difficult subject. Something I always had a problem with is that it is socially acceptable for a woman to slap a man but if the man did the same thing then it isn't socially acceptable.

Naturally violence of all sorts is bad, and I don't plan to hit anybody at any time, but why is it so black and white that hitting a female is a heinous offense?

I like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

It's exactly the same as hitting a man - meaning it's bad. In all cases.

Violence should never be accepted.

yeah yeah, except self defense and all that, but you already knew that....

[Reverend Joe]

Confession: I was with a woman when I was younger (this would be around the time of the Civil War), when she slapped me. Hard. I was completely surprised. I looked at her and asked, "What the **** was that about?"

She giggled and slapped me again. Hard. When she saw the look of shock and confusion on my face, she broke into full-out laughter.

Enough. I said, "Look, if you do that again I will hit you back."

She slapped my face again, just as hard as before. So I punched her in the gut.

She doubled over and began weeping, demanding to know what I had hit her. "Because you were ******* hitting me!" I said.

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

To be honest, I would have personally slapped her right back, not punched her; I mean, a slap sure hurts, but an unexpected gut-shot is a real takedown. Not saying that your response was all that uncalled-for, though; I would have definitely responded after a couple of times and a warning.

[Don Corleone]

In my younger, wilder days, I dated a few wildcats like the ones described above. Towards the end of a bottle of tequilla, things could get interesting. One girl hit me with a baseball bat in my sleep. :help:

I never hit any of them back. I'm not blaming anybody above that did, but surprise, surprise, I'm pretty old-school on this stuff. I have done worse things though....

One girl punched me in the jaw, knocking my jaw hinge out of alignment, because I called her an f-word-ing b-word, because she had cheated one me. Afterwards, she cried and apologized, but I wasn't feeling particulary forgiving for either offense....I grabbed her by both wrists, threw her out in the hallway and called her sister. When she came by the next morning to make up, her stuff was packed in the hallway. Never spoke to her again (though, I probably should at some point, I'm not sure if this story makes her look worse or me).

The one who hit me with the bat.... I called the cops and she went into custody for the evening. I went to the emergency room to get a couple of stitches. Turned out, she had some serious issues and wound up in a rehab (just for alcohol, no drugs), due to other bouts of alcohol induced violence.

I don't judge anybody who's acting in self-defense... Lemur, you did what you felt you had to. But I will say, that's the only way I could ever see hitting a woman as even remotely tolerable.

[pevergreen]

Nothing wrong with it. If they have it coming, hit them as hard as you would a man.

[CountArach]

Violence is wrong in all cases. A slap is done in self-defence - hitting a woman is rarely ever done that way.

[Hooahguy]

while in some cases its ok to hit women, esp if they are man-like (as is the case with one girl in my grade- she can beat up any guy in the school).
but as a general rule: no. its not worth it.

[CountArach]

while in some cases its ok to hit women, esp if they are man-like (as is the case with one girl in my grade- she can beat up any guy in the school).
but as a general rule: no. its not worth it.
So wait, you are acknowledging that we should not hit women... yet at the same time saying we should hit women because they act like men? If that's not reinforcing gender stereotypes I don't know what is.

[rotorgun]

Once, during one of our first knock down, drag it out arguments, I made the mistake of bringing up that I thought her family all acted as if their :daisy: didn't stink. My wife went straight for the utensils drawer, pulled out the biggest knife she could find, rounded on me, and said in feminine Clint Eastwood like voice, "Do you want some of this, or are you gonna take that last statement back." As she looked rather serious (she was shaking with fury), I took it back.

Kinda scared me there for a moment. I thought about hitting her and taking the knife from her, but she would have sliced me up like a hog on hog skinnin' day!

[Husar]

So wait, you are acknowledging that we should not hit women... yet at the same time saying we should hit women because they act like men? If that's not reinforcing gender stereotypes I don't know what is.

So you think the whole "you do not ever hit a woman"-thing has absolutely nothing to do with gender stereotypes? Don't make me laugh...
I like women like most men but if I gotta hit them, I'll hit them, doesn't mean I support domestic violence and beating women in general.
Women aren't sacred cows, stop belittling them!

[CountArach]

So you think the whole "you do not ever hit a woman"-thing has absolutely nothing to do with gender stereotypes? Don't make me laugh...
Absolutely it reinforces gender stereotypes, but not to the same extent that Hooahguy's statement does. That statement assumes that women are seperate from men and are fragile, whereas Hooahguy's statement not only makes this assumption, but also adds on that women shouldn't attempt to be any other way.

That said, i stand opposed to both notions - violence is wrong against all people, regardless of gender.

[Fragony]

Violence is wrong in all cases. A slap is done in self-defence - hitting a woman is rarely ever done that way.

^- exactly that.

[CountArach]

^- exactly that.
I... I don't know what to think now... :dizzy2:

[Strike For The South]

Im lucky Im such a big strapping man. No woman has ever struck me. :laugh4:

[Fragony]

I... I don't know what to think now... :dizzy2:

Well hitting women is wrong. You stab them.

[CountArach]

Well hitting women is wrong. You stab them.
Right - that makes me feel much better. Thanks.

[Samurai Waki]

Don't worry Lemur. You're not the only one. The girl I was dating before I met my Wife, thought that it was funny to punch me in the stomach... I eventually told her that I didn't like it when she did that, and if she did it again I was going to retaliate, and I emphasized that I was going to retaliate is if though she were a man. She didn't get it, and on one particular day she socked me right in the diaphragm and literally knocked the wind out of me. I got up from my knees and nailed her right shoulder socket hard enough that it dislocated her arm, and sent her reeling to the ground.

After that we made up, and kept together for another three years. And never once did we hit each other after that.

[Fragony]

My life must be pretty boring :inquisitive:

[rory_20_uk]

One used not to hit ladies as of course ladies did not punch either!

I'd no more take random swings at men as I would at women, but I don't see why I am anyone's punching bag.

~:smoking:

[Beirut]

I slapped a girl hard enough to land her on the grass back in high school. It was at a school dance. She was being a complete :daisy: and mentally torturing my very drunk best friend outside on the football field. I guess I was about 16 at the time. Haven't hit, slapped, pushed, or used any kind of physical violence on a woman during the following 30 years.

And no, you should not hit a woman. (Though sometimes, I tell ya... )

On the other hand, I teach my 13 year-old daughter that if any male even so much as touches her without prior written approval, she should close her fist and bury it right in his face as hard as she can. I ain't raising no girl that's going to take guff from a weak willed men who like to push women around.

[Beirut]

Sorry, net problems.

[Beirut]

Sorry, net problems.

[rory_20_uk]

On the other hand, I teach my 13 year-old daughter that if any male even so much as touches her without prior written approval, she should close her fist and bury it right in his face as hard as she can. I ain't raising no girl that's going to take guff from weak willed men who like to push women around.

Great idea, what a wonderful way to escalate a situation...
And if that guy justifiably responds to assault? :wall:

~:smoking:

[AlexanderSextus]

Honestly i believe that if a woman has the guts to hit me like a man she must have the guts to get hit like a man.

I took Wing Chun Kung Fu for a while, and it is a system created by a woman so she could beat up bigger, stronger men. There were some girls in our class too, and they were not exactly big masculine girls either...they were very pretty actually. My Sifu used to always tell us: "don't go easy on the girls, they need to be able to deal with the reality that in a fight situation the attacker isn't gonna remember their mom telling them not to hit girls".

Lemme tell ya, you would think these girls couldn't hurt a fly, Pfffff. I saw one guy try to force himself on one of these women and he was on the ground with a broken nose and two teeth knocked out before you could blink.

The way she beat this guy down was she used a technique where many straight punches are fired one after the other in rapid succession.

here's an explanation of the straight punch and how it works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvh8EGzW160

and here's an explanation of how the "machine gun" way of linking them works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76MV0FArvgw&feature=related

[Reverend Joe]

Great idea, what a wonderful way to escalate a situation...
And if that guy justifiably responds to assault? :wall:

~:smoking:

That's not assault, it's self-defense, and a damn good strategy too. Unless you're dealing with a guy who's a complete nut, he will be too surprised (and probably too scared) to respond in kind, or do anything but leave well enough alone. On the other hand, if the guy is a nut who would "escalate the situation," not hitting him won't really do any good because she's going to be in serious trouble either way; may as well at least try to defend herself.

[Fragony]

Way to go Beirut 3 times, must have been love

[rory_20_uk]

That's not assault, it's self-defense, and a damn good strategy too. Unless you're dealing with a guy who's a complete nut, he will be too surprised (and probably too scared) to respond in kind, or do anything but leave well enough alone. On the other hand, if the guy is a nut who would "escalate the situation," not hitting him won't really do any good because she's going to be in serious trouble either way; may as well at least try to defend herself.

So, the guy is presumed to be guilty as apparently holding hands is a good enough reason to lash out.

Who said she's in serious trouble? She might be after explaining to the police how she broke someone's nose "just in case" he was to do something.

Civilisation appears to be a very thin veneer as far as you are concerned - both men and women nothing more than groups of thugs.

~:smoking:

[Beskar]

As CountAnarch says, violence is not the answer, it is usually the result of the breakdown of communication. It's best to leave the scene and come again at it later.

In a situation where violence is needed for self-defence, act responsibly to get you out of a situation. For one incidence, many many years ago, when I was in high school, this "rough" girl for whatever reason beyond logic and comprehension, kept kicking me. So when she went to kick me again, I grabbed her foot, pulled off her shoe and threw it over a fence. I didn't actually need to do any violence or hitting, with her shoe on the otherside of the fence, it ended up disabling her kicking me, plus she has to explain to some random person to give her, her shoe back. Funniest response was when they went "y'll d'tat?" (proper English: "Why did you do that?") and I just laughed.

A slight lie, after I threw her shoe over the fence, she kept following me, hopping, trying to kick me then gave up after it was too much effort and since removing her shoe really took the sting out of it.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Just... no... I thought Lemur's post was a joke (is it, or am i being slow, meh I'm tired).

If she keeps punching you or whatever and it's causing you more than negligible pain, then just grab her wrist firmly next time or deflect the hit... don't hit back.

I cannot understand how some people would think it is OK to hit a woman, but then I've never understood parents who think its OK to hit their children. I don't care if they hit you, you're bigger and you should be able to take it, the fact that you are so much bigger (remember how massive adults looked when you were young, heck to a 5 year old a 6 year old is a giant) means they probably don't realise they are hurting you, and if you complain you are just being a wimp.

[Garnier]

Don't hit women. It is always bad to hit women, if it is necessary, as in it's that or danger to yourself or someone else and there's no other option, then it can't be helped. But I expect that is almost never the case. I sympathize and understand, but it still isn't right.

[Samurai Waki]

you're missing the point... its never okay to hit anyone, female or male. And most people do resort to violence as an act of emotional discharge. And many people use violence as an act of domination, I think in my case (hey I was only 15 and she 17) I didn't bend to her will, and she thought that this was an appropriate response to that. It was in both my best interest, and hers to show that any action will be met with an opposite and equal reaction. Of course being almost ten years ago since I have been in any fight whatsoever, I could've calculated my response much better. I could've walked away form the relationship entirely (and indeed should have) but teenagers tend to carry their pride on their cuffs, and I wasn't about to allow people to see that I could be controlled by violence.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Due to societal pressure not to hit women, if one hit me, I would attempt to withdraw from the situation. Especially if she were 6 feet tall and weighed more than me. :laugh4:

However, if a woman slaps me, I would give her a warning not to do that again. If she slapped me again, I would return the slap. (I would not hit her with a closed fist, that could do some damage)

If she were attacking with a closed fist, that warrants a closed fist in self defense. Tough ta-tas if she gets hurt at that point. You don't assault people, you don't assault people who can hurt you, and you don't assault people who can hurt you with a closed fist. I might be a man but I don't deserve to be struck. I can shrug off a foolish mistake made in anger from a woman, but I would not tolerate any strikes which could actually do serious damage to me. At that point it's assault and like a nation attacking the United States, the retaliation will be swift, just, and overwhelming. Don't want to get hurt? Don't hurt people.

Every woman who has ever dated me knows I am a gentleman, I do not yell, I do not argue, I do not cheat, and I do not hit (first) or threaten to hit. Therefore, if a woman assaults me, I don't deserve it and I will retaliate with an appropriate amount of force. Appropriate meaning will not cause long term harm and for the purposes of defense, not vengeance.

However, if she comes at me with any kind of serious weapon, that's not assault to me. That's more like attempted murder, and at that point her life is in danger, just as mine would be. I won't play chivalrous towards an attempted murderer. I don't want to be put in a situation where I would have to hurt a woman (or a man, the few that I could do any sort of damage to). I would avoid the situation, I would attempt to withdraw, I would use minimum force necessary to defend myself, and if I were being assaulted with a deadly weapon I would dispense with the pleasantries.

I treat women with due respect. When they fail to do the same, I am disappointed. If they attack me I don't have any reason not to defend myself. I'm not a huge guy and I have to watch out for my own neck and there is zero shame in that.

[Megas Methuselah]

What if she derives sexual pleasure out of it?

[Beirut]

Way to go Beirut 3 times, must have been love

Yeah, sorry about that. My connection went glacial when I tried to post, so I tried again and those just pooped up through minutes later.

:oops:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Based on the giggles and the laughter, apparently she thought it was funny. Which I supposed it would have been if she wasn't hitting so darn hard.

I certainly support the notion that a man should never, ever initiate violence with a woman. It's uncalled-for and unfair. But I can easily imagine situations in which self-defense would call for more than a gentle talking-down.

Very odd.

My housemate used to kick and punch me, so I'd just basically lie accross her sideways so that the blows could only land on my back. Then she's screach and giggle.

Now she's stopped hitting me and we aren't talking.

So I suppose I'm weirder!

[Beirut]

Great idea, what a wonderful way to escalate a situation...

I'll raise a crazed killer of a daughter before I raise one that submits to abusive men. Her bio-father was verbally abusive to her mother and she saw it at a young age. I'm breaking the mold here and now. Period.


And if that guy justifiably responds to assault? :wall:


Teach 'em young. If she has to pound one or two guys in the early high school years, the boys will always know not to disrespect her.

Any male of the species who puts a hand on her without her permission has sacrificed his nose and/or the future of his testicular proclivities.

[HoreTore]

I'll raise a crazed killer of a daughter before I raise one that submits to abusive men. Her bio-father was verbally abusive to her mother and she saw it at a young age. I'm breaking the mold here and now. Period.

...And what better way to ensure that, than by teaming her up with a nice socialist feminist? Perhaps even a Norwegian one, if you get my drift.... ~;)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

...And what better way to ensure that, than by teaming her up with a nice socialist feminist? Perhaps even a Norwegian one, if you get my drift.... ~;)

No, he's repressed!

You want an honest, honourable, and chivalric Englishman. An unreconstructed medieval warrior who understands that to strike a woman is to die!

Not that I know anyone like that. :wink3:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

No, he's repressed!

You want an honest, honourable, and chivalric Englishman. An unreconstructed medieval warrior who understands that to strike a woman is to die!

Unless, of course, she happens to be a witch. ~;)

[Beskar]

feminist? I have to be honest, can't really stand them. Every single action is classified as social stigma against women. For example, I once pushed open a heavy door and there was some one behind me, so I left it open with my hand so they can take it off me to get past and they just stood there. I turned around wondering "What the hell?" then it ended up being a jumped up feminist wanting to make a political statement on gender divide saying I am repressing her by opening the door and keeping it open. So I went "Okay then, last time I do you a favour" and I let go of the door, as she walked forward, not expecting how heavy the door actually was... *POW* and it made her fly backwards.

I sort of walked off, so I don't know what happened after that, I just know I heard something hit that door and the door won.

Oh, I am an egalitarian. Call yourself that, not feminist, if you are male. As wikipedia says it:

political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights. Generally it applies to being held equal under the law and society at large.

[CountArach]

feminist? I have to be honest, can't really stand them. Every single action is classified as social stigma against women.
The vast majority of feminists are not like this, just a small minority who really don't help feminism.

[rotorgun]

Unless, of course, she happens to be a witch. ~;)

I work with a lady who is a self proclaimed Wicca (Witch). Although she's my friend she is, shall we say rather eccentric. She's also pretty tough, and not many guys would try to hit her. I think they are more afraid that she will put some sort of spell on them.

Her decorative front bumper plate reads "My other vehicle is a broom" :kiss2: :devilish: :batman:
That last smile is supposed to be a cat-woman.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The vast majority of feminists are not like this, just a small minority who really don't help feminism.

What's your basis for saying that? You aren't a feminist merely by believing that men and women should have equal rights. It implies a certain amount of social activism. And most social activists are a bit out there in my experience.


she walked forward, not expecting how heavy the door actually was... *POW* and it made her fly backwards.

I sort of walked off, so I don't know what happened after that, I just know I heard something hit that door and the door won.

:laugh4:


I'll raise a crazed killer of a daughter before I raise one that submits to abusive men. Her bio-father was verbally abusive to her mother and she saw it at a young age. I'm breaking the mold here and now. Period.

I worry that she'll do it to the wrong guy and get her face smashed in. A harsh (and loud, especially in public) verbal rebuke is a far better strategy.


Don't hit women. It is always bad to hit women, if it is necessary, as in it's that or danger to yourself or someone else and there's no other option, then it can't be helped. But I expect that is almost never the case. I sympathize and understand, but it still isn't right.

I think this kind of kneejerk reaction is just silly. Really, the average man these days has like 6 inches and 30 pounds on the average woman, and most of that 30 pounds is fat. Just because you're a man doesn't give you a huge advantage. A sucker punch is called that for a reason, and a real fight will probably involve a weapon of some sort anyway. You have to either be way stronger than someone or have martial arts training to be able to safely subdue them just by pinning them down. You're basically claiming that that self defense is a moral wrong if a man is defending himself against a woman.

If you accept that a guy should shrug off slap, than you should accept that a girl should shrug off a slap of equal force (or a bit less since women usually have less pain tolerance). Otherwise you are treating them as weaker than they really are. Though we've been raised to naturally get more upset about it.

I just go with my gut instinct rather than try to follow some black and white rule. Moral rigidness is a cop out :whip:

[CountArach]

What's your basis for saying that? You aren't a feminist merely by believing that men and women should have equal rights. It implies a certain amount of social activism. And most social activists are a bit out there in my experience.
Actually I see Feminism as more of a totality of thought that involves wanting to equalise the patriarchy of society, built around a belief in the language and signal structure of society being 'phallocentric'. However, I also believe there is a line where this can be taken too far and too much can be read into it.

How are social activists at all 'out there'?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Actually I see Feminism as more of a totality of thought that involves wanting to equalise the patriarchy of society, built around a belief in the language and signal structure of society being 'phallocentric'. However, I also believe there is a line where this can be taken too far and too much can be read into it.

How are social activists at all 'out there'?

I worked with 30-40 of them for a while, they believed some crazy :daisy: let me tell you. Actually this is supported by science. When they do brain scans of political enthusiasts they find that the act of rejecting something that disagrees with their view lights up the pleasure part of their brain. Anyone who places a lot of importance on their political beliefs is prone to this. The amount of things I've heard repeated unquestioningly that could be disproved by a simple google search...

[Papewaio]

That would explain why it is so hard to shift ideas if keeping them is pleasurable.

BTW do I need to google your statement to verify it too. :laugh4:

[Beskar]

I know quite a number of feminists, I have to say, you do feel their "wrath against men" (this is an understatement quite a lot) quite strongly, even when reading feminist blogs. Like with the door example, I was simply holding open a door, which I would do regardless of gender, yet the "feminist" who apparently wants equality targeted me out as a male and attempted to make me feel bad just because I am the sex I was born with. In one feminist blog, the write had a bone to pick with family members saying "how is the search for a partner?" going, etc, as she is living alone at 35 years old. She writes how society oppresses women and the man apparently get off scott-free. I am only in my twenties and I hear it all the time from my family, yet apparently to the blog owner, this is only a thing that applies to women.

The thing with feminism is that it is woman central, the whole name is "female" and is actively subscribed to females. This is the problem with campaigning from that angle, it is very pro-female at the expense of equality. An issue on campus at the moment is that men are elected into the student union more than women, however, the number of male applicants outnumber the female ones. So statistically speaking, it is more likely for a man due to pure maths. (What is even funnier, the make up of students here is 60% female and 40% male)

The feminist group (we have one) are campaigning to make it mandatory to have places set aside for women, is called "positive discrimination" (pretty much affirmative action). The thing is, I have a problem with this. I have no problems with females being elected, but I am an egalitarian, I believe in true equality. If you want to tackle the issue, find out why women aren't applying and if anything, convince women to apply. There is something wrong when the women are outnumbering the men, which I can agree with, but why should you bring about inequality for an "forced" equality. Also, this breeds further discrimination as you start rejecting people based "just because they are male", and now the whole thing for equality from feminism is more "females are more equal than males" as the saying goes.

[rajpoot]

Most activists, specially political ones, in my opinion are all nuts. They try to make issues out of everything....maybe they think it's smart..........
Anyway, on topic, I see that most situation where men actually hit women are when women are, what, like kidding around......however, in each case I think the woman was the one who got the worst of it.....
OK, maybe saying you never hit women is wrong....if she is coming at you with a large knife or some lethal weapon, you need to do something about it...knock it out of her hand, and maybe knock her out while you remove the weapon, so that negotiations can commence. But like it's been mentioned, most of the times it isn't so. Most cases where men hit women are like household violence cases where the man is drunk and stuff.
Far as women punching a guy to start making him behave is concerned, I think that's self defense. The woman is defending herself, so I don't think that really counts here, the chap started the whole thing after all.....
That's my two cents.........

[Crazed Rabbit]

Actually I see Feminism as more of a totality of thought that involves wanting to equalise the patriarchy of society, built around a belief in the language and signal structure of society being 'phallocentric'. However, I also believe there is a line where this can be taken too far and too much can be read into it.

How are social activists at all 'out there'?

And those sound like the type of people who would do as Beskar described. Perhaps not all of them, but more than a small minority.

As a side note I hold the door open for everyone. Am I a post-feminist? Or just egalitarian?

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That would explain why it is so hard to shift ideas if keeping them is pleasurable.

BTW do I need to google your statement to verify it too. :laugh4:

You ought to :D

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/30/AR2006073000579.html

Though really...it's something we all fall prey to. A natural instinct. I become very partisan around election time...at least for the last two. But it's not that much fun really.

[seireikhaan]

As a side note I hold the door open for everyone. Am I a post-feminist? Or just egalitarian?
Neither. You're a communist. A good capitalist charges a fee to each individual based on their willingness to pay for the service. How dare you enable those free riders. :no:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Neither. You're a communist. A good capitalist charges a fee to each individual based on their willingness to pay for the service. How dare you enable those free riders. :no:

I think you're mistaking Capitalism with Objectivism. ~;p

CR

[seireikhaan]

I think you're mistaking Capitalism with Objectivism. ~;p

CR
Ah, but the two are one in the same in your scenario, Comrade. :yes:

[HoreTore]

The definition of a feminist?

To me, it's a woman who wants to work.

[pevergreen]

Really, the average man these days has like 6 inches and 30 pounds on the average woman...

Jeez, I'd hope so, otherwise whats the point of her being female...

[Beskar]

The definition of a feminist?

To me, it's a woman who wants to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

@Pevergreen

Trust you.

[Husar]

Just... no... I thought Lemur's post was a joke (is it, or am i being slow, meh I'm tired).

If she keeps punching you or whatever and it's causing you more than negligible pain, then just grab her wrist firmly next time or deflect the hit... don't hit back.

I cannot understand how some people would think it is OK to hit a woman, but then I've never understood parents who think its OK to hit their children. I don't care if they hit you, you're bigger and you should be able to take it, the fact that you are so much bigger (remember how massive adults looked when you were young, heck to a 5 year old a 6 year old is a giant) means they probably don't realise they are hurting you, and if you complain you are just being a wimp.

So what if she does some judo move when you grab her hand and throws you onto a glass table?
Oh wait, women could never do such a thing because they're all lovely, fragile creatures. ~:rolleyes:

Concerning children, I slapped my sister when we were younger and my parents forbid me, for some strange reason I get along with her much better now than my mom who always complains that my sister tries to order her around. It's not just the slapping but I'm sure it helped as pain is a natural way of learning what you shouldn't do. And no, her face isn't deformed. :juggle2:

[Beirut]

I worry that she'll do it to the wrong guy and get her face smashed in. A harsh (and loud, especially in public) verbal rebuke is a far better strategy.


I'm sure you're right. But she's very passive so I figure if I tell her to go 100% she'll probably only go 50%, which is to raise her fist and offer the loud verbal rebuke you mention.

Besides, she's a skinny little grade seven bookworm. A punch from her isn't going to go very far. I just want to make sure to bring out the lion in her so the lamb doens't take charge. I simply cannot bear the thought that she is pre-destined to accept an abusive relationship as normal.

[Viking]

So what if she does some judo move when you grab her hand and throws you onto a glass table?
Oh wait, women could never do such a thing because they're all lovely, fragile creatures. ~:rolleyes:

Indeed, the mantra "never hit a woman" suggests that if a seemingly weak male should as much as touch your shoulder, you shoud punch him for what you've got; whereas if a woman punch you so hard in your stomach that you almost collapse, and prepares another hit; you should just absorb what's coming your way. :laugh4:

(PS, what's missing in the mantra, is a knight and a dragon)

[Beskar]

Is a woman a dragon, Viking, in your PS?

[Furunculus]

since equality took force i treat women the same i would a man.

which is to say that i don't make a habit of hitting anyone, and threatening someone of inferior physical stature constitutes bullying regardless of gender.

[Viking]

Is a woman a dragon, Viking, in your PS?

No, she would the blond long haired noble virgin sitting helpless in a tower; trapped by a dragon. You are the knight.

Either "never hit" would mean that a woman has no means to threaten you in such a way that it would never be necessary to hit (which is incredibly naive), else, I really got no idea what it's about. OP said nothing about domestic violence, punishment etc., which is something else entirely.

[Rhyfelwyr]

So what if she does some judo move when you grab her hand and throws you onto a glass table?
Oh wait, women could never do such a thing because they're all lovely, fragile creatures. ~:rolleyes:

That's not what I'm saying, but generally speaking when you have your average female and male without black belts, then

In a Public Policy class (yeah i had to take that stupid subject to fill up credits), the tutor for my group was a diehard feminist. And when some of the guys were discussing this matter, making the same points as most here, the teacher was appalled at what they were saying. Without going into fantastical scenarious as if your girlfriend is Uma Thurman coming at you with her Kill Bill samurai sword, generally speaking you should have no reason to hit a woman. The vast majority of cases of men hitting women will be drunken men beating their wives. I know there are actually cases of domestic violence when the opposite happens, in which case the man should defend himself. Obviously, if you are in serious danger you defend yourself, even if it means taking out the enemy. But in average day to day life for relatively sane couples, just don't hit women.


Concerning children, I slapped my sister when we were younger and my parents forbid me, for some strange reason I get along with her much better now than my mom who always complains that my sister tries to order her around. It's not just the slapping but I'm sure it helped as pain is a natural way of learning what you shouldn't do. And no, her face isn't deformed. :juggle2:

Maybe it does work, I just wonder at the mindset of people who hit children, I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

[pevergreen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

@Pevergreen

Trust you.

Eh?

:stare:

[Fragony]

Maybe it does work, I just wonder at the mindset of people who hit children, I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

What's wrong with a good slap around the ears, never gotten one I didn't deserve.

[Meneldil]

Confession: I was with a woman when I was younger (this would be around the time of the Civil War), when she slapped me. Hard. I was completely surprised. I looked at her and asked, "What the **** was that about?"

She giggled and slapped me again. Hard. When she saw the look of shock and confusion on my face, she broke into full-out laughter.

Enough. I said, "Look, if you do that again I will hit you back."

She slapped my face again, just as hard as before. So I punched her in the gut.

She doubled over and began weeping, demanding to know what I had hit her. "Because you were ******* hitting me!" I said.

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

Same thing happened to me in high-school. I was speaking with friends and 3 girls (one of them being a good friend) came and started to slap me while laugghing. When hit for the 3rd time, I slapt one of them so hard she fell on her back.
Once again, total confusion : "WHY OH WHY DID YOU DO THAT?" "Because you did it first."

Honestly, nowadays, I would just hit back after the first slapping (if it's not a friendly/sexual kind of slapping). Women shouldn't have less rights than men, but they don't have an inherent right to slap
men either.

Edit: Slapping children is the best way to ensure a correct education. I'm constantly amazed by the sad state of personnal education in anglo-saxon countries (ie. US, Canada, England). People are not allowed to slap or hit kids, and their children all end up as a bunch of spoiled, useless and unskilled idiots. Among the hundreds of Canadians and Americans I met, probably not even 5% of them could cook something decent or clean an appartement.
I would have spanked my roommates' ass and slaped their face to the moon only to teach them how to clean a living room or a wahsroom.
Edit2: In regard to that, french youth is not much better. I blame the whole "you should neither spank your kids nor give them homework" crap that parents are constantly being brainwashed with.
End of my out of topic rant.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Slapping women? Punching her in the stomach? In revenge? Gah! Cave-dwelling troglodytes! :no:

Me, I am far too refined for such brute reactions.
Instead, I always make sure to wear a sturdy leather belt. With the beltbuckle always on the left. That way, with just a single hand I can undo my belt and in one fell swoop strike her down with it before she has even finished her sentence. (right-handed)

[Furunculus]

Edit: Slapping children is the best way to ensure a correct education. I'm constantly amazed by the sad state of personnal education in anglo-saxon countries (ie. US, Canada, England). People are not allowed to slap or hit kids, and their children all end up as a bunch of spoiled, useless and unskilled idiots. Among the hundreds of Canadians and Americans I met, probably not even 5% of them could cook something decent or clean an appartement.
I would have spanked my roommates' ass and slaped their face to the moon only to teach them how to clean a living room or a wahsroom.
Edit2: In regard to that, french youth is not much better. I blame the whole "you should neither spank your kids nor give them homework" crap that parents are constantly being brainwashed with.
End of my out of topic rant.

very much agreed with you and frag.

i was smacked and occasionally belted, and it never did me any harm.

[CountArach]

very much agreed with you and frag.

i was smacked and occasionally belted, and it never did me any harm.
I wasn't and I turned out fine.

[Furunculus]

good for you, so you won't be calling for a ban on smacking then?

after all, if its equally successful then you'd consider it rude to interfere with how families choose to discipline their children.........

[Fragony]

I wasn't and I turned out fine.

Sure, but I kinda tested my luck. Didn't get me anything. My dad was great, and occasionally somewhat displeased, I'd would have kicked me.

[rory_20_uk]

I believe currently in the UK parents can hit children as long as they don't cause bruising. Assuming that this is for discipline, I think that the amount of pain and social embarassment to the child that an open handed smack to the backside can cause should be more than adequate.

In most cases as long as the rules are fair, well understood and enforced there is often no need to have the punishment as the knowledge that it is there is enough. Most children can behave in these situations. My young cousins changed overnight when away from their mother to their aunt (my mother). Suddenly rules were inforced and bad behaviour resulted in punishment. They wern't stupid, and so quickly found that behaving well resulted in praise and time to do what they wanted.

~:smoking:

[Rhyfelwyr]

I don't think there should be a ban on smacking, I don't even think its that bad, when I was younger I would have rather got smacked than my Game Boy (Pokemon!) or whatever taken away.

What I'm saying is, now I'm older, I can't imagine hitting a child.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I remember when my sisters and I were kids and used to fight. Smacking us might stop the current bickering and "3 Stooges Act", but it wouldn't take too long before we started up again.

The most effective punishment ever was devised by our mother. She used to make us sit together, each on their own chair in a corner, and hold hands for an hour. We used to sit as far apart as possible, just so our hands touched, but get caught not holding hands before the time was up extended our stay in the corner an extra 15 minutes. It didn't take long for the threat of that particular punishment to modify our behavior.

[Scurvy]

I believe currently in the UK parents can hit children as long as they don't cause bruising. Assuming that this is for discipline, I think that the amount of pain and social embarassment to the child that an open handed smack to the backside can cause should be more than adequate.


the laws in the UK seem okay to me, there was a fuss when they were announced, but in reality, parents rarely hit children hard enough to 'seriously' hurt them. As with all things, its about moderation.


Slapping children is the best way to ensure a correct education. I'm constantly amazed by the sad state of personnal education in anglo-saxon countries (ie. US, Canada, England). People are not allowed to slap or hit kids, and their children all end up as a bunch of spoiled, useless and unskilled idiots. Among the hundreds of Canadians and Americans I met, probably not even 5% of them could cook something decent or clean an appartement.

I wasn't slapped as a child, and can cook and clean well enough. Theres much more to parenting than enforcing discipline... like showing children how to cook and clean.

:2thumbsup:

[Husar]

That's not what I'm saying, but generally speaking when you have your average female and male without black belts, then

In a Public Policy class (yeah i had to take that stupid subject to fill up credits), the tutor for my group was a diehard feminist. And when some of the guys were discussing this matter, making the same points as most here, the teacher was appalled at what they were saying. Without going into fantastical scenarious as if your girlfriend is Uma Thurman coming at you with her Kill Bill samurai sword, generally speaking you should have no reason to hit a woman. The vast majority of cases of men hitting women will be drunken men beating their wives. I know there are actually cases of domestic violence when the opposite happens, in which case the man should defend himself. Obviously, if you are in serious danger you defend yourself, even if it means taking out the enemy. But in average day to day life for relatively sane couples, just don't hit women.
So hitting a man without being afraid of your life is fine or are you saying that there is absolutely no difference anyway in which case this whole "you do not hit a woman" thing would be completely superfluous anyway...



Maybe it does work, I just wonder at the mindset of people who hit children, I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

Isn't there some part in the bible that says he who loves his children will beat them or something to that effect? A slap on the cheek won't damage a child unless it's a really brutal slap which is not what I'm talking about. The child will subcobnsciously associate certain things with pain and not do them anymore, similar to how it learns that touching a hot oven is painful and should not be done.
If you think I was beating my sister around until she turned blue and purple, please think again.
I was slapped as well and I turned out fine, my parents never needed a super nanny for me, old argument but still valid.


I wasn't slapped as a child, and can cook and clean well enough. Theres much more to parenting than enforcing discipline... like showing children how to cook and clean.

:2thumbsup:
I think every child is different and there is no standard procedure that works with every child, the cooking and cleaning come somewhat naturally to me and although the cooking could be debated, it's good enough for myself. ~D

In that sense I might add to the abocve that I only ever slapped my sister after she kept harassing me after repeated warnings, she had a phase where she did that, sometimes for hours, when she was bored, now that she is older and more reasonable, it's superfluous and we get along fine as I said, I'm sure there are children who are nicer "per default", as for myself, I had to learn this hitting after prior warning thing from my parents (who also slapped me, cruel evil people as they were ~:rolleyes:), for a long time before that in primary school, I would often start fights with people who provocated me and it would always turn out ugly(the other guy was a wuss and ran crying to my teacher...), the whole warning thing worked wonders after a while I must say. ~D
I think there was also a girl who got into the fights sometimes and it was all pretty even, sounds like I had a rough time at primary school but in general it was all a lot nicer than the mental cruelties I was subjected to at high school, where beating was mostly a taboo...

[Kadagar_AV]

Does spanking qualify as hitting?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...Isn't there some part in the bible that says he who loves his children will beat them or something to that effect? A slap on the cheek won't damage a child unless it's a really brutal slap which is not what I'm talking about. The child will subcobnsciously associate certain things with pain and not do them anymore, similar to how it learns that touching a hot oven is painful and should not be done....

Yes.


Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

It doesn't appear outside of Proverbs, save for one verse referring to enduring harship for the faith as sons endure discipline from fathers (Heb 12:6-7).

[Rhyfelwyr]

This is really just me going with my gut. As I said hitting children may be do the trick, I just can't imagine doing it myself. Solomon can beat his children, but if Jesus had any I don't think he would. You can still discipline children without physically hitting them.

Anyway, I have somehow managed to derail another thread and get people quoting Bible passages without bringing it up first, so now I shall leave. Fare ye well!

[Beskar]

The Naughty Step.

Or the worse abuse of all, ignoring your children.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This is really just me going with my gut. As I said hitting children may be do the trick, I just can't imagine doing it myself. Solomon can beat his children, but if Jesus had any I don't think he would. You can still discipline children without physically hitting them.

Anyway, I have somehow managed to derail another thread and get people quoting Bible passages without bringing it up first, so now I shall leave. Fare ye well!

Rhy, are you maybe saying that Jesus wouldn't agree with everything written in the Bible?:beam:

Anyway, I would spank my kids in very extreme cases, there are instances where I might cane them (never the belt), but if it got to that point I would consider I had really failed as a parent.

FYI, I never did anything to get either the cane or the belt from my father, my mother used the Wooden Spoon once or twice, I think that was it.

[Big_John]

wait wait... don't you passionately kiss the woman after she slaps you?

[CountArach]

good for you, so you won't be calling for a ban on smacking then?

after all, if its equally successful then you'd consider it rude to interfere with how families choose to discipline their children.........
Wait.. what? That's got to be the worst argument ever...

[Husar]

wait wait... don't you passionately kiss the woman after she slaps you?

Yes, but there's a chance that she will bite your tongue off...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Does spanking qualify as hitting?

I'm assuming not if she enjoys it, telling whether she does or not is a whole other kettle of fish.

[Meneldil]

I wasn't slapped as a child, and can cook and clean well enough. Theres much more to parenting than enforcing discipline... like showing children how to cook and clean.

:2thumbsup:

Oh yeah. Slapping isn't always necessary. Different kids have different personalities. Different parents have different ways to educate their children, and some of those don't involve any spanking.

What I'm trying to say is that there's a general 'the kid is the king' ideology developing througout the world (it does not only hit Europe or North America, but also China, Mexico, etc.), according to which a child should live and behave as he wants because opposing or disagreeing with him would hurt his personality/growth/whatever other crap.

I was by all standards a monster when I was a kid. My mum smacked me good a whole lot of times, and I'm glad she did it. Some of my friends weren't spanked and turned out good too. That's fine by me, I'm not advocating the constant use of violence to educate children. I'm just saying that children are not kings of the hill, and that the current education most kids are given is only producing a heap lot of lazy, vulgar and useless idiots who show no respect whatsoever for anything.

One of my mum's friend adopted two kids from Tahiti twelve years ago. Both kids (a boy and a girl) were at first quite nice, a bit shy and what not. As said friend was an adept of the "You shall not oppose your kids" way, both turned into huge useless assholes. The boy is stealing his stepmother's car and driving it without licence and dealing marijuana, while the girl, who goes on her 17, already had an abortion, about 20 boyfriends, and got fired from all her past schools and jobs because nobody could stand her.
At that point they're pretty much lost and will be a burden for society for the rest of their sad little life.

Edit: Just in case, I'm not a totalitarian thinking all kids should be turned into brainless robots. I'd like everyone to be an enlightened humanist, not a uneducated, useless punk.

[Kralizec]

The only argument that I can think of against smacking your kid occasionally is that it requires moderation and judgement. There'll always be moronic or emotionally unstable parents who can't see that there's a world of difference between spanking and beating the crap out of someone. Some will do the latter and still believe that they're doing it for the good of the kid.

So I wouldn't recommend it or do it myself, but saying that all spanking equals child abuse is :daisy:

[Meneldil]

On another note, could we scrap the outdated "Women are flowers, men are pigs" cliché ?

Courtesy and gallantry are fine, bit if a woman deserves a beating, there's no reason she shouldn't get it.
Courtly love is hopefully gone. If you think hitting a woman unbelievable, I can't see how you'd advocate hitting a man. Both are equaly wrong, period. Either you allow it for both sexes or you accept it for both.

[Kadagar_AV]

1. to hit a child is sometimes the best thing.
2. some people hit their childs when it is not right.

How do you solve this?

You make a law about hitting your child.

If it goes to court you are bound to have done something wrong.

My father hit me once.. Even I realised I was out of control. Did it go to court, no!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

On another note, could we scrap the outdated "Women are flowers, men are pigs" cliché ?

Courtesy and gallantry are fine, bit if a woman deserves a beating, there's no reason she shouldn't get it.
Courtly love is hopefully gone. If you think hitting a woman unbelievable, I can't see how you'd advocate hitting a man. Both are equaly wrong, period. Either you allow it for both sexes or you accept it for both.

There's nothing wrong with the narrative of Courtly Love, it improves the behaviour of both sexes, which is why it was invented.

Also, the fact is that a woman is, all else being equal, going to be weaker than you by default, her bones more delicate, her face-bones in particular more fragile, her shoulders narrower, reflexes slower and muscles not only less in terms of size but also endurance. Men are stone-cold killing machines. Women only fight like that if you threaten their children.

[Husar]

There's nothing wrong with the narrative of Courtly Love, it improves the behaviour of both sexes, which is why it was invented.

Also, the fact is that a woman is, all else being equal, going to be weaker than you by default, her bones more delicate, her face-bones in particular more fragile, her shoulders narrower, reflexes slower and muscles not only less in terms of size but also endurance. Men are stone-cold killing machines. Women only fight like that if you threaten their children.

Exactly, that's why women should never hit a man first because they know once he retaliates by hitting them on the nose, their face will fall apart...