View Full Version : Do's and don't
Well ive been playing RTW and EB for years now but when I look around on the forum I still read stuff that make me say "wtf I didnt knew that"
For example: I just read that you putting your hoplites in guard mode on the walls is not good. I had no idea (I usuall fight with guard mode on). Why is this?
Are their any other things that most ppl dont know but that can save lives/give an advantage/.... ?
Vasiliyi
07-01-2009, 03:39
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=103424
Eb game play guides. Should help a bit.
Aemilius Paulus
07-01-2009, 04:16
Are their any other things that most ppl dont know but that can save lives/give an advantage/.... ?
The list for RTW is endless. Guard mode will only work if you are trying to hold the line. Your soldiers will barely fatigue, if at all, and their defence is better due to the adherence to the formation, and all soldiers facing the enemy directly, but if you attack a unit, switch the guard mode off. Not to mention various bugs happen when attacking in guard mode, where only some soldiers fight, but not all.
On the wall, guard mode will slaughter your men. I once had Hastati holding the walls of Ippone against kart-Hadastim, with Numidian skirmisher unit wiping out 8 men (large Unit Size) before I realised I forgot to turn the guard mode off. Once I did, the Hastati slaughtered the skirmishers without a single casualty. Note the skirmishers were coming from the ladders, right in front of Hastati.
In guard mode, soldiers do not move to attack the enemy. This can prove crucial if the enemy has long overhand spears and you have shortswords. The Hoplitai Haploi, the levy hoplites, can annihilate Hastati this way. In general, even when defending, sword units should be put off the guard mode.
Spear unit are another matter. Mostly the spear units with long spears should be put on the guard mode. This does not apply to the Celtic (for example) spear units, who have short underhand thrusting spears. For them, guard mode is best left off, although it is also feasible to leave it on. Going back to the units with long spears, Triarii, Hoplitai, Hoplitai Haploi, and such do the best in a tight formation on guard mode. In such formation, they suffer the least casualties while being just as effective due to their ultra-long spears. They do especially well in guard mode against other sword units, who must come very close to attack with swords, while even the second row of Triarii can jab at them.
A lot of it is just stopping to consider your choices. It goes against the grain, at least for me, because I tend to think in terms of games rather than in terms of history. Any historical game I have played tends to operate by the conventions of gaming, so thinking of things as if they were real was an invalid and frustrating way of doing things.
The more I've overcome that, the better I have played. Just a thought.
The list for RTW is endless. Guard mode will only work if you are trying to hold the line. Your soldiers will barely fatigue, if at all, and their defence is better due to the adherence to the formation, and all soldiers facing the enemy directly, but if you attack a unit, switch the guard mode off. Not to mention various bugs happen when attacking in guard mode, where only some soldiers fight, but not all.
On the wall, guard mode will slaughter your men. I once had Hastati holding the walls of Ippone against kart-Hadastim, with Numidian skirmisher unit wiping out 8 men (large Unit Size) before I realised I forgot to turn the guard mode off. Once I did, the Hastati slaughtered the skirmishers without a single casualty. Note the skirmishers were coming from the ladders, right in front of Hastati.
In guard mode, soldiers do not move to attack the enemy. This can prove crucial if the enemy has long overhand spears and you have shortswords. The Hoplitai Haploi, the levy hoplites, can annihilate Hastati this way. In general, even when defending, sword units should be put off the guard mode.
Spear unit are another matter. Mostly the spear units with long spears should be put on the guard mode. This does not apply to the Celtic (for example) spear units, who have short underhand thrusting spears. For them, guard mode is best left off, although it is also feasible to leave it on. Going back to the units with long spears, Triarii, Hoplitai, Hoplitai Haploi, and such do the best in a tight formation on guard mode. In such formation, they suffer the least casualties while being just as effective due to their ultra-long spears. They do especially well in guard mode against other sword units, who must come very close to attack with swords, while even the second row of Triarii can jab at them.
I have found much to my dismay that guard mode doesn't work for hoplites when defending on the walls .
Mine ( a spartan hoplite unit , not the levies ) were being butchered ( about 20 casualties and showing the "defeat is certain , only a military genius could win the battle " ) by some Akontistai , until I turned guard mode off , then they slaughtered the Akontistai suffering only 4 casulties further.
I never used guard mode since when on walls , even with my hoplites .
Satyros
Aemilius Paulus
07-01-2009, 18:06
I have found much to my dismay that guard mode doesn't work for hoplites when defending on the walls .
Yes, thank you for the clarification :bow:. I did state that all units should have Guard Mode turned off on walls, but then said that hoplites must keep their guard mode, forgetting to insert the exception for walls. I did not, however, mean to say that they should keep it on the walls.
Basically, anyone with guard mode on while standing on the walls will not do anything to attack and just stand there while getting hit by the attacking enemy. This is usually the case with the enemy units coming from ladders, and not the enemy units who have already fully moved themselves to the walls though.
Ariovistus Maximus
07-01-2009, 18:13
Yeah, guard mode also keeps your men from wrapping around the enemy in a field battle. I s'pose you knew that already...
Another wierd one I heard about was that you should deploy archers in a max of 3 ranks, or else their accuracy/rate_of_fire is lowered.
Is it the Ludus Magna in the RTW forum where they research all this stuff?
Aemilius Paulus
07-01-2009, 18:56
Is it the Ludus Magna in the RTW forum where they research all this stuff?
Yes, I always refer people with questions about RTW game mechanics there.
@ Aemilius Paulus , no problem , I didn't mean to correct you , rather , I was aiming to get another opinion about hoplites on the walls , by presenting my own experience with them .
Glad we agree on this .
Satyros
So
Hoplites and phalanxes: Always on guard mode (while defending) except on walls
Rest of the units: always guard mode off
Right?
A lot of it is just stopping to consider your choices. It goes against the grain, at least for me, because I tend to think in terms of games rather than in terms of history. Any historical game I have played tends to operate by the conventions of gaming, so thinking of things as if they were real was an invalid and frustrating way of doing things.
The more I've overcome that, the better I have played. Just a thought.
I think what Skoran has in mind is the little tricks in the game that few people know about, not general strategy advice.
One example is guard mode (or not) for troops on walls.
Another example I can think of was posted a few weeks ago by someone (Paulus?) saying that archer units get an accuracy penalty if their formation is more than 3-deep.
Tricks that have nothing to do with strategy, but are nevertheless important for gameplay.
Centurio Nixalsverdrus
07-02-2009, 00:16
So
Hoplites and phalanxes: Always on guard mode (while defending) except on walls
Rest of the units: always guard mode off
Right?
The first thing I do before every battle is I command all infantry units into guard mode, into fire at will mode and out of skirmish mode. I don't like it when the line gets torn apart. I do command out of guard mode only when I order the respective unit to attack.
On walls I have learned that guard mode has no uses, so I always turn it off.
Apraxiteles
07-02-2009, 03:47
I've found that alt-clicking on the campaign map will allow you to use your assassins against your own agents. Sadly it doesn't seem to work on family members, but it is handy for getting rid of completely incompetent agents who do nothing but drain cash. It can also be fun sometimes to recruit lots of assassins, then have them all duke it out against each other until you only have a few skilled pros.
Mouzafphaerre
07-02-2009, 04:11
I've found that alt-clicking on the campaign map will allow you to use your assassins against your own agents. Sadly it doesn't seem to work on family members, but it is handy for getting rid of completely incompetent agents who do nothing but drain cash. It can also be fun sometimes to recruit lots of assassins, then have them all duke it out against each other until you only have a few skilled pros.
.
Wow, that's new to me, thanks! :2thumbsup: In MTW (notice: NOT MiNO) you can use your spies and assassins against your own agents (general, captain, emissary, whatever...). It was something missing from RTW. Well, apparently it's not at all!
Ballon! :balloon:
.
I've found that alt-clicking on the campaign map will allow you to use your assassins against your own agents. Sadly it doesn't seem to work on family members, but it is handy for getting rid of completely incompetent agents who do nothing but drain cash. It can also be fun sometimes to recruit lots of assassins, then have them all duke it out against each other until you only have a few skilled pros.
Thank you kind sir for this .
All these years .....
All this cash thrown in the wind , waiting for death to take them .
Damn you incompetent assassins/spies , damn youuuuuuuuuuu ! ( /shakes fist towards the sky )
I will now have my revenge .
Satyros
When defending a seige against ladders. I always wait until the enemy have 1 man up on the wall and then order my men to attack. It ensures they will never get enough men on the wall to mount a good attack. I've had units fight off hundreds of invaders and only take a couple of casualties using this method.
This is kind of EB specific but I recall reading here that the AI does not get its automatic govt. building in a settlement that is given via diplomacy, which makes it hard to get use out of the settlement. That surprised me.
In my newest game I've noticed that often occurs in settlements that revolt to an AI faction also.
Really ?
That makes the whole " allied help " role playing issue rather problematic .
And I am very fond of going out of my way to recapture and give cities to a " trusted ally " , most of the times to prevent the destruction of the faction .
Does this means they won't ever get to build a gov building ?
What if I gave to them back cities which were theirs to begin with , will they repair eventually the damaged gov building ?
Does the A.i. repair gov buildings at all for that matter ?
Satyros
I'm not entirely sure if it's always the case. It seems sometimes things work fine in settlements I give away, sometimes not. Not destroying the old government building seems to help. I have seen the AI repair them and use them. And they do it whether the govt building belongs to their faction or not.
I can vouch on the leaving cities to rebel thing. I have a Sauromatae game where I migrated to the western end of North Africa, looting Carthage on the way. Over ten years later as I creep back east towards them, I notice that Carthage and both nearby settlements don't have government buildings (one did eventually get a regional pacification building). All that time and they weren't able to build anything but a temple and that one first level public health building.
I ended up taking Carthage itself again and handing it to the Romans. The Carthaginians reconquered it and got their automatic level 1 govt.
I get your point but this seems to make the whole " helping my ally " rp a rather complicated issue .
Thank you for the information .
Satyros
Ariovistus Maximus
07-02-2009, 16:47
I've found that alt-clicking on the campaign map will allow you to use your assassins against your own agents. Sadly it doesn't seem to work on family members, but it is handy for getting rid of completely incompetent agents who do nothing but drain cash. It can also be fun sometimes to recruit lots of assassins, then have them all duke it out against each other until you only have a few skilled pros.
Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou...
You are my hero.
But not ONLY is it nice to get rid of worthless agents, (:wall: :wall: :wall:) That is a REALLY good idea to have ur assassins slug it out.
ESPECIALLY for EB, where it takes a blessed eternity to make decent agents. Anybody know how to get decent spies, btw, besides training billions and hoping some of them work out?
Anyways, have a balloon Apraxiteles: :balloon3:
:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:
I think what Skoran has in mind is the little tricks in the game that few people know about, not general strategy advice.
One example is guard mode (or not) for troops on walls.
Another example I can think of was posted a few weeks ago by someone (Paulus?) saying that archer units get an accuracy penalty if their formation is more than 3-deep.
Tricks that have nothing to do with strategy, but are nevertheless important for gameplay.
Exactly. I want to know those little tricks :)
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.