if i ever got a motorcycle... [Archive]

Hooahguy

07-02-2009, 06:13

i want to immediately join these guys. (http://www.patriotguard.org/)
ive been looking at some vids of them in action, and i cannot tell you how proud i am to be an American when i see them doing their thing.

now to fuel debate, should groups like the Westboro Baptist Church be allowed to protest at soldiers funerals in the way that they do?

my opinion is they should be able to, of course, but make them stay 250 feet -or more- away from the funeral. funerals are events of respect and mourning. no place to be saying "thank god for IEDs."

Lemur

07-02-2009, 06:16

Isn't that currently the law in most states? I think a whole bunch of state legislatures passed "no protesting within X yards of a funeral" laws just to make the WBC jerkwads back off.

miotas

07-02-2009, 06:37

Surely their goal is stop soldiers being killed? If they are attending a funeral to try an achieve this surely they are too late? There is a time and a place for everything, but a funeral isn't the place for anything.

Lemur

07-02-2009, 06:41

Surely their goal is stop soldiers being killed? If they are attending a funeral to try an achieve this surely they are too late?
You clearly are not up to speed on the Westboro Baptist Church (http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/default.asp). Their theology, as best I can puzzle it out, runs like this:

God hates homosexuals.
But the USA tolerates them.
Therefore, the USA is ungodly, and all of its actions are an abomination.
So any soldier who dies is damned to hell for supporting the USA which tolerates homosexuals.

It makes more sense if you're inbred.

miotas

07-02-2009, 08:38

That's terrible. The Chaser did a bit on them a few years back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE
Are they a popular movement or is it just that one church?

It's good to see bikies doing good for the community for a change.

Lemur

07-02-2009, 09:04

Are they a popular movement or is it just that one church?
As I understand it, it's just one family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps).

Hooahguy

07-02-2009, 12:14

Isn't that currently the law in most states? I think a whole bunch of state legislatures passed "no protesting within X yards of a funeral" laws just to make the WBC jerkwads back off.
i think that law was passed after the WBC and the Patriot guard clashed?

anyhow, heres the WBC song. (http://www.phillyd.tv/2009/07/01/westboro-baptist-church-the-song/)

Ronin

07-02-2009, 12:53

As I understand it, it's just one group of wackjobs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps).

there...fixed it for you.

Husar

07-02-2009, 13:08

anyhow, heres the WBC song. (http://www.phillyd.tv/2009/07/01/westboro-baptist-church-the-song/)

That's such an uplifting song.

Even from a christian point of view, and I mean the somewhat more radical than normal kind, this is full of hatred and these people are so mislead/wrong it's really astounding. Maybe they actually stand for equality and want to prove that muslims aren't the only ones who can have hateful whackjobs.

Hosakawa Tito

07-02-2009, 13:16

Hopefully my family won't need the Patriot Guard's services, but it's nice to know they would be there to hold my coat and cover my back if need be.:bow:

Rhyfelwyr

07-02-2009, 14:43

:thrasher:

God hates the world
And all her people
...

Well, you knew God's law
But you disobeyed it all
Spent your lives
Chasing your lust and lies
Serving all your idols
Fag beasts and :daisy: flags

:thrasher:

Reverend Joe

07-02-2009, 17:29

:stunned: If God actually hates anyone, I'm pretty sure it's the WBC.

Rhyfelwyr

07-02-2009, 17:43

"God hates the world
And all her people"

I'm desperate to sig this for the lulz, might give the wrong message if people take it seriously though. I can just imagine them at a Sunday school, hey kids, gather round and and sing a song... "God hates you, God hates me, God hates all humanity"...

I don't know if the WBC are genuine in their beliefs, or if they are just RL trolls doing it for the attention. Their two lines above definetely have a trollish quality, I can't see what they mean by them. Maybe they are getting at the idea that they are "not of this world" as Jesus says Christians should be, but it's hard to tell.

Crazed Rabbit

07-02-2009, 17:56

Huh, according to wikipedia, they first sued on behalf of minorities being discriminated against.

And the Fred Phelps was disbarred for:

A formal complaint was filed against Phelps on November 8, 1977 by the Kansas State Board of Law Examiners for his conduct during a lawsuit against a court reporter named Carolene Brady. Brady had failed to have a court transcript ready for Phelps on the day he asked for it; though it did not affect the outcome of the case for which Phelps had requested the transcript, Phelps still requested $22,000 in damages from her. In the ensuing trial, Phelps called Brady to the stand, declared her a hostile witness, and then cross-examined her for nearly a week, during which he accused her of being a "slut," tried to introduce testimony from former boyfriends whom Phelps wanted to subpoena, and accused her of a variety of perverse sexual acts, ultimately reducing her to tears on the stand.[24] Phelps lost the case; according to the Kansas Supreme Court:
“ The trial became an exhibition of a personal vendetta by Phelps against Carolene Brady. His examination was replete with repetition, badgering, innuendo, belligerence, irrelevant and immaterial matter, evidencing only a desire to hurt and destroy the defendant. The jury verdict didn't stop the onslaught of Phelps. He was not satisfied with the hurt, pain, and damage he had visited on Carolene Brady.[24] ”

In an appeal, Phelps prepared affidavits swearing to the court that he had eight witnesses whose testimony would convince the court to rule in his favor. Brady, in turn, obtained sworn, signed affidavits from the eight people in question, all of whom said that Phelps had never contacted them and that they had no reason to testify against Brady; Phelps had committed perjury.[24]

On July 20, 1979, Phelps was permanently disbarred from practicing law in the state of Kansas,[24] but continued to practice in the Federal courts.

In 1985, nine Federal judges filed a disciplinary complaint against Phelps and five of his children, alleging false accusations against the judges. In 1989, the complaint was settled, with Phelps agreeing to stop practicing in Federal court permanently, and two of his children suspended for periods of six months and one year.[25]

Ya, those Patriot guard riders are good guys.

It's good to see bikies

Is that the Australian slang for motorcycle riders, aka bikers here in the US?

CR

miotas

07-02-2009, 23:37

Is that the Australian slang for motorcycle riders, aka bikers here in the US?

Yeah. Bikers sounds like you're talking about those fitness fanatics who ride around on racing bikes(bicycles) at ungodly hours :laugh4:

Major Robert Dump

07-03-2009, 06:09

Most cities, when giving them a permit to protest, stick them in some out-of-the-way location or spot where no one will notice them. While it's quite funny, it does however raise interesting questions about free speech and right to assemble, and it causes the WBC to engage in trickery as to when and where their protests will be, so the counter protestors go to the wrong place because the permit details are so guarded by the establishment.

They are jokes now. The party is over, people ignore them, the muzzle is on. They lose. And to think it all started with Matthew Shephard.

Crazed Rabbit

07-03-2009, 06:12

Yeah. Bikers sounds like you're talking about those fitness fanatics who ride around on racing bikes(bicycles) at ungodly hours :laugh4:

Here we've got bars with big signs that say "Welcome Bikers". And they mean guys on Harleys, not in spandex.

CR

Hooahguy

07-03-2009, 19:50

how the WBC reacts when a gay man begins hitting on one of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE)

HoreTore

07-03-2009, 20:35

how the WBC reacts when a gay man begins hitting on one of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Oh man, hilarious!! Loved his wife!!

miotas

07-04-2009, 01:32

how the WBC reacts when a gay man begins hitting on one of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE)
Hmmm... Should I point out that I already posted that in the 5th post?

Megas Methuselah

07-04-2009, 04:59

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Oh man, hilarious!! Loved his wife!!

"You're a pervert. Have a nice day, pervert!!!"

HAHAHAHAHAAAA :laugh4:

Hooahguy

07-05-2009, 03:06

Hmmm... Should I point out that I already posted that in the 5th post?
sorry, just goes to show you that wording counts....

rasoforos

07-08-2009, 10:51

Crazed Rabbit

07-08-2009, 17:33

Inbred religiously psycho wakos, on one side

The classical 'patriot' single digit IQ people that provide the U.S with an unending number of quasi-brainless henchmen to fight pointless wars with, on the other side.

So basically insanely 'religious' people quarrel with insanely 'patriotic' people. Two cheeks of the same arse.

And that's the type of eloquent an elegant analysis that has led to modern day Greece being a leader among nations, full of intelligent people making great advances for all humanity in their fields, and making Greece a shining example of modern nations in all facets; including social harmony, medicine, standard of living and tolerance. No wonder they are such a great beacon of civilization, an example to other nations not only in Europe, but around the world! It is clear to me know why other countries beg and grovel for Greece's approval, to be let into the special groups Greece leads. No wonder Greek culture permeates the US, from our televisions to our books and art. Such dominance is but the inevitable result of such thinking as displayed above.

In a country that makes sense we would have the police locking the WBC in jail for inciting hatred (which they do) so there would be no need for 'patriotic' hell's angels. I would have thought that disrupting any man's funeral in such way would break enough laws to put the WBC in jail (but I suppose that is not the case in the US). I also have a gut feeling that if they were Muslim and not Christian things would have been different.

Ah, so 'making sense' means outlawing free speech! No wonder so many immigrants flock to Greece, and not America, for a new life. No wonder it is the dream of impoverished people in poor countries to seek a new life in the gleaming, vibrant, and opportunity filled land of Greece! They seek the appealing lack of freedom and desire the conformity from having acceptable thoughts determined by the government!

CR

HoreTore

07-08-2009, 17:51

And that's the type of eloquent an elegant analysis that has led to modern day Greece being a leader among nations, full of intelligent people making great advances for all humanity in their fields, and making Greece a shining example of modern nations in all facets; including social harmony, medicine, standard of living and tolerance. No wonder they are such a great beacon of civilization, an example to other nations not only in Europe, but around the world! It is clear to me know why other countries beg and grovel for Greece's approval, to be let into the special groups Greece leads. No wonder Greek culture permeates the US, from our televisions to our books and art. Such dominance is but the inevitable result of such thinking as displayed above.

Ah, so 'making sense' means outlawing free speech! No wonder so many immigrants flock to Greece, and not America, for a new life. No wonder it is the dream of impoverished people in poor countries to seek a new life in the gleaming, vibrant, and opportunity filled land of Greece! They seek the appealing lack of freedom and desire the conformity from having acceptable thoughts determined by the government!

CR

Uh-oh....

1. Greece is a member of the EU, CR, things like free speech is determined in the European court of human rights...
2. People are actually immigrating to Greece, in the tens of thousands, if not more. You see, Greece is, together with Spain and Italy, one of the three main entries for immigrants to the EU...

Hooahguy

07-08-2009, 19:05

The classical 'patriot' single digit IQ people that provide the U.S with an unending number of quasi-brainless henchmen to fight pointless wars with, on the other side.

i would actually argue that many of these vets who do a great service and protect the families of dead soldiers from the WBC wackos probably have higher IQs than you do.

Vladimir

07-08-2009, 19:18

Hooahguy

07-08-2009, 19:20

Uh-oh....

1. Greece is a member of the EU, CR, things like free speech is determined in the European court of human rights...
2. People are actually immigrating to Greece, in the tens of thousands, if not more. You see, Greece is, together with Spain and Italy, one of the three main entries for immigrants to the EU...
i think he was being sarcastic

HoreTore

07-08-2009, 19:27

i think he was being sarcastic

I know.

Rhyfelwyr

07-08-2009, 19:40

Are the Patriot Guard Riders actually all crazed patriots/nationalists though? I would think most of them just want to let people get a decent funeral.

Hooahguy

07-08-2009, 20:08

Are the Patriot Guard Riders actually all crazed patriots/nationalists though? I would think most of them just want to let people get a decent funeral.

bah! most of them are like me and you. they love america and deeply respect the soldiers and hate to see funerals for them disrupted by the wackos.

HoreTore

07-08-2009, 20:21

bah! most of them are like me and you. they love america and deeply respect the soldiers and hate to see funerals for them disrupted by the wackos.

While I may not love my country or respect soldiers, I absolutely hate people who disrespect funerals. If anything in this world is sacred, it's got to be funerals.

There absolutely nothing that can justify it. You simply don't put even more sorrow to people who are already suffering. Someone has lost a loved one. I don't care what you think of the him or their actions, you leave them alone.

Louis VI the Fat

07-08-2009, 22:25

Here's someone begging for an ad hominem attack. Poor show :thumbsdown: 'Poor Show' is a mocking insult aimed at provoking another member, called 'Show' - Arthur Foxache.

:sweatdrop:

Crazed Rabbit

07-09-2009, 00:27

:rolleyes: @ Louis

2. People are actually immigrating to Greece, in the tens of thousands, if not more. You see, Greece is, together with Spain and Italy, one of the three main entries for immigrants to the EU...

So do they actually stay there, or move on to a different final destination?

Are the Patriot Guard Riders actually all crazed patriots/nationalists though? I would think most of them just want to let people get a decent funeral.

You're right. They just want to prevent the WBC from interfering.

CR

Louis VI the Fat

07-09-2009, 02:44

Americans thumping their chest about freedom of expression? Maybe the US should've stood up for freedom of expression instead of crushing it, and democratic Greeks would not have been so touchy about the US nowadays:

Alexis Papachelas's The Rape of Greek Democracy: The American Factor, 1947-1967

is a splendidly researched, soundly reasoned, and tightly written investigation of the roots of the crisis in Greece's hybrid "crown democracy," of the plot that led to its overthrow, and of American involvement in what Margaret Papandreou aptly called the "Nightmare in Athens."

In writing his history of Greece in the 1960s, Papachelas's primary sources are the records created by extremely interested foreign observers: the diplomats of the United States Foreign Service. Since few Greek primary sources are available (outside of the voluminous record of the colonels' trial), the author has supplemented his American archival treasure trove with a judicious use of the press and also of interviews with many of the participants, including some of the coup makers and their acolytes.Link (http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_modern_greek_studies/v016/16.1br_papachelas.html)

Phred Phelps can shout whatever he wants, yet the US supported and aided the torture and murder of any Greek democrat who so much as dared utter the words 'all men are created equal with unalienable rights as life and liber...'

Hooahguy

07-09-2009, 02:57

hey now, you know the American people have little say in foreign affairs. we can yell and shout all we want, but the gov wont pay much attention.

Louis VI the Fat

07-09-2009, 03:15

Yet the individual Greek was held personally responsible for everything that goes on in Greece?

Hey, I owed the Greeks a bit more understanding of their view of the world, after being harsh about their new museum. It is a complicated world. As the saying goes: to understand everything is to forgive everything.

Hooahguy

07-09-2009, 03:16

i never said that. just dont blame the people for what the government does behind its peoples backs.

btw my knowledge about greece pretty much stops after Rome takes over. and a bit of it during WWII, so dont expect me to make any real argument about greece in the 20th century.

HoreTore

07-09-2009, 07:46

So do they actually stay there, or move on to a different final destination?

Both, as with every other european country... With the possible exception of us at the top, ie. Norway, Sweden, Finland and England. I don't think there's a lot of africans dying to migrate to the north pole....

rasoforos

07-09-2009, 08:49

And that's the type of eloquent an elegant analysis that has led to modern day Greece being a leader among nations, full of intelligent people making great advances for all humanity in their fields, and making Greece a shining example of modern nations in all facets; including social harmony, medicine, standard of living and tolerance. No wonder they are such a great beacon of civilization, an example to other nations not only in Europe, but around the world! It is clear to me know why other countries beg and grovel for Greece's approval, to be let into the special groups Greece leads. No wonder Greek culture permeates the US, from our televisions to our books and art. Such dominance is but the inevitable result of such thinking as displayed above.

CR

Now to the main post:

Yes I have something against 'patriots'. The problem with them is that, sooner or later, they consider anyone who disagrees with them as 'non patriotic', 'traitors', 'enemies of the state' etc etc. Just think of what 'patriotic' germans were doing in WWII while 'traitors to the reich' were risking their lives to end the war or to resque Jews and other opponents to the Fuhrer's folly. Just waving a flag about and singing the national anthem does not make you a patriot. Being a thinking citizen, willing to risk their life to protect your nation from becoming a cancerous growth run by Machiavelian 'patriots' does though.

Any average Joe can take a bike and a flag and play toy soldiers. That doesn't make them anything...

Anyway, I was trying to make a point that it should be the State that should ensure the sanctity and respect of a person's funeral. And that indeed there should be laws that protect the poor relatives from such abuse. It is not the role of vigilantes to ensure that. Anyone's funeral should be respected and protected by law. Does anyone actually disagree that this should be the case?

Hooahguy

07-09-2009, 12:26

it should be the State that should ensure the sanctity and respect of a person's funeral

they kinda have. there is a 500 foot or something like that protest limit. but that cant stop the mourners from hearing the WBC chants. and that cant stop the mourners from seeing the signs. thats where the patriot guard comes in. they stand in front of the signs holding flags so the mourners cant see them, and when they are chanting, the PG rev their motorcycles to the family cant hear them.
the government cant do all of that, protecting the family like that.

rasoforos

07-09-2009, 13:34

they kinda have. there is a 500 foot or something like that protest limit. but that cant stop the mourners from hearing the WBC chants. and that cant stop the mourners from seeing the signs. thats where the patriot guard comes in. they stand in front of the signs holding flags so the mourners cant see them, and when they are chanting, the PG rev their motorcycles to the family cant hear them.
the government cant do all of that, protecting the family like that.

Great, here we are paying our respects to someone we love... to the sound of reving engines. All we need now is Mel Gibson in a Mad Max outfit...

...of course some countries have rather silly legal systems that, since the WBC makes no effort to hide that they are targeting the funeral, are inciting hatred, show anti-social behaviour, would put them in jail, far far away from the funeral.

So the result would be a decent funeral. No wackos chanting abuse, no motorcycles reving, so you can actually hear the priest and have closure. But now who would want that? And what nonsensical legal system would that be...

Am I making my point clear now? The solution is legal reform and not 'patriotic' hell's angels...simple as that.

Hooahguy

07-09-2009, 14:13

Great, here we are paying our respects to someone we love... to the sound of reving engines. All we need now is Mel Gibson in a Mad Max outfit...

better than hearing "your son will burn in hell."

you cant lock these people up. they have the right to speak whatever they want, even if they incite hatred. Revered Wright incites hatred and hes not in jail, is he?
thats what makes america what it is. freedom of speech.

Louis VI the Fat

07-09-2009, 14:55

With such great knowledge of all matters European me and my associates would have no problem selling you the Eiffel Tower, the Colosseum, and the Parthenon in no time. I think you'll have great problems selling anybody the whole of the Parthenon any time soon. :smash:

Hooahguy

07-09-2009, 15:45

And here I was talking about people with single-digit IQ's... :no:

once again, id bet money that they have a higher IQ than you do.
:thumbsdown:

Banquo's Ghost

07-09-2009, 16:18

I would appreciate a little less abusive rhetoric in this thread, please.

Thank you kindly.

:bow:

Crazed Rabbit

07-09-2009, 17:28

Now to the main post:

Yes I have something against 'patriots'. The problem with them is that, sooner or later, they consider anyone who disagrees with them as 'non patriotic', 'traitors', 'enemies of the state' etc etc.

So you've got a problem with a very narrow field of people, and you insist that anyone patriotic is really this evil sort of person? And you do that with no evidence, just your own prejudices?

Just waving a flag about and singing the national anthem does not make you a patriot.

These people aren't just doing that. They're traveling great distances to help families of fallen soldiers have a peaceful funeral, because of their love for their country and the people who defend it.

Any average Joe can take a bike and a flag and play toy soldiers. That doesn't make them anything...

You Do Not Understand. It's sad, but quite simple; these guys are not 'playing toy soldiers'. It's like you just hate everyone who loves their country and isn't some paranoid nut looking for 'Machiavellian' conspiracies. And so you make up ridiculous accusations about how patriots are the type of people who support nazis or attack anyone who doesn't agree with them.

But that's not how it is here. Maybe we Americans are simply more enlightened or compassionate. But to be a patriot here means nothing of that.

Anyway, I was trying to make a point that it should be the State that should ensure the sanctity and respect of a person's funeral. And that indeed there should be laws that protect the poor relatives from such abuse.

We hold the right to free speech pretty high here. The state should not ban these hateful scum from having their say, but they can't spare the personnel to form a wall like these patriot guard riders do.

It is not the role of vigilantes to ensure that.

These aren't vigilantes, unless you are using some definition that doesn't exist.

Anyone's funeral should be respected and protected by law. Does anyone actually disagree that this should be the case?

Yes, it if means violating the right to free speech.

of course some countries have rather silly legal systems that, since the WBC makes no effort to hide that they are targeting the funeral, are inciting hatred, show anti-social behaviour, would put them in jail, far far away from the funeral.

Again - freedom of speech. Inciting hatred? Anti-social behavior? Welcome to a free country. I can understand your confusion.

The solution is legal reform and not 'patriotic' hell's angels...simple as that.

Not everyone on a bike is a member of an outlaw gang.

CR

Rhyfelwyr

07-09-2009, 17:41

American patriotism is a different kettle of fish from the nationalism we see in Europe, especially of the kind it was being compared to in this thread.

these hateful scum

This is a pet peeve of mine but... don't you think what you said is a bit hypocritical?

Crazed Rabbit

07-09-2009, 17:43

This is a pet peeve of mine but... don't you think what you said is a bit hypocritical?

How so? They are hateful - full of hate - and they're scum. But they still got the right to free speech.

CR

Rhyfelwyr

07-09-2009, 17:47

How so? They are hateful - full of hate - and they're scum. But they still got the right to free speech.

CR

Using a nasty word like scum gives the impression that you hate them.

If you just want to express distaste, there's no need to be so harsh.

Crazed Rabbit

07-09-2009, 18:08

Using a nasty word like scum gives the impression that you hate them.

If you just want to express distaste, there's no need to be so harsh.

Hmm. I feel sad for them more than anything. But I do think there's a need to be harsh.

CR

Rhyfelwyr

07-09-2009, 19:14

Hmm. I feel sad for them more than anything. But I do think there's a need to be harsh.

CR

Fair enough. I don't agree with the Phelps btw, I do this for everyone, even racists etc...

It is like Louis said in another thread which I now can't find, which went something along the lines of... if you understand people, you never hate them.

HoreTore

07-09-2009, 19:43

Fair enough. I don't agree with the Phelps btw, I do this for everyone, even racists etc...

It is like Louis said in another thread which I now can't find, which went something along the lines of... if you understand people, you never hate them.

"To understand everything is to forgive everything".

And Buddha said that some time before Louis did ~;)

Rhyfelwyr

07-09-2009, 23:05

"To understand everything is to forgive everything".

And Buddha said that some time before Louis did ~;)

That's it... oops. :embarassed:

Louis VI the Fat

07-10-2009, 01:23

"To understand everything is to forgive everything".

And Buddha said that some time before Louis did ~;)Buddha? Huh?

It is a French proverb: 'Tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner'.

Meneldil

07-10-2009, 18:06

Again - freedom of speech. Inciting hatred? Anti-social behavior? Welcome to a free country. I can understand your confusion.

Oh come on now. Do you want people here to list all the times free speech was threatened and/or harmed in the US ?

If you still think the US is a beacon of freedom, then well, I'm kind of sad for you. It would be as stupid as believing France is the embodiment of liberty, equality and fraternity.

People are flocking to the US and Europe not because they think they'll have more freedom, but because they think they'll make more money than in their own country. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Vladimir

07-10-2009, 18:41

While I may not love my country or respect soldiers, I absolutely hate people who disrespect funerals. If anything in this world is sacred, it's got to be funerals.

Okay, whoa, time out, really OT but, WTF? You just created a thread where you demonstrated that Norway has one most sensible governments on the planet. You were a soldier FCOL!

HoreTore

07-10-2009, 20:22

Buddha? Huh?

It is a French proverb: 'Tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner'.

Buddha came before your modern french language, Louis. Unless you can prove it to be an old gaellic proverb, you're pwned ~;)

Okay, whoa, time out, really OT but, WTF? You just created a thread where you demonstrated that Norway has one most sensible governments on the planet.

I like my social democracy. But some 20% of my countrymen wants to destroy it, so I can't honestly see how I can love my country... And anyway, my love is reserved for women.

You were a soldier FCOL!

Still am, for another 23 years. But you see, as long as you don't hate the military, you're still a recruit ~;) Once you start hating everything about it, you're a soldier.

Vladimir

07-10-2009, 20:24

That's cool. I know it's not as extreme as it looked but it was odd given recent posts.

Louis VI the Fat

07-11-2009, 03:01

Buddha came before your modern french language, Louis. Unless you can prove it to be an old gaellic proverb, you're pwned ~;)Buddha is like Churchill: every quote is attributed to him.

I would argue that 'emphatic understanding' is not a core concept of Buddhism, but rather of European thought. But instead, for the sake of fun, here's a page where....baboomtish...Chinese explore the origin of the quote, it's place in Western thought, and what Chinese Buddhists can learn from it:

http://sinofrance.org (http://sinofrance.org/site/writes/works/xyz03/comprendre.htm) :beam:

It is a proverb of unknown origin, the oldest known version is from Mme de Staël, 'Corinne, ou l'Italie': Tout comprendre rend très indulgent. [et sentir profondément inspire une grande bonté]. To understand all is to become very lenient.
I haven't been able to trace it further back. I do not think we need to. The quote fits perfectly in the new eightteenth century thought about empathy, penal reform, individual dignity. The quote is not related to Zen, it is related to the origin of human rights.