View Full Version : Eleutheroi
A suggestion for EB II.
Sometimes it seems the Eleutheroi are too easy to conquer, whereas in reality/history it was much more difficult and time consuming. One reason, it seems, is that when an Eleutheroi city is attacked / besieged, but the attack is unsuccessful, they are very slow to retrain their units or recruit new units. It may also be that they have too few troops in their cities and/or they are too unwilling to attack the factions.
Could they be made stronger? I know that will lengthen the game but it may be even more of a challenge and even more realistic as a result.
Not sure what others think about this.
And don't get me wrong - I think EB is great.
If you want stronger rebels, then at the beginning of the game you should type in "add_money slave 40000" a bunch of times. The reason the rebels never retrain is because they have a terrible economy and quickly go broke at the beginning of the game.
Skullheadhq
07-03-2009, 10:49
Improving script to give slaves more money an idea?
Cute Wolf
07-03-2009, 12:28
Or modify their overall economy so they have a netto income.... I once try to play as slave in EB (moving someone into unplayable) and BAM! the money hit -40000 at the very first turn!... Giving them a stable economy might work...
Leão magno
07-05-2009, 17:19
I believe it was EB 0.74 wich exposed the strongest rebels... I enjoyed the added dificult! The script EB has implemented to give huge armies to some rebels cities is also an interesting approach, togheter, both systems would be a terrible match for many human players!!!
A nice vision for me! :)
Only problem is that I think the slaves can train any unit. When I do the little add_money slave trick I get some strange armies popping up in places they shouldn't be. Or is this different in M2TW?
Cute Wolf
07-07-2009, 09:50
Like Arabian rebels spawn Katuvaram and Iberi milites? I encounter them much when smacking Saby'n remnants...:wall:
Mediolanicus
07-07-2009, 18:18
Eleutheroi cities can only recruit the regional units from the area.
The one exception is the Eleutheroi capital which can spawn any regional unit in the game.
Eleutheroi cities can only recruit the regional units from the area.
The one exception is the Eleutheroi capital which can spawn any regional unit in the game.
And a city can be designated Eleutheroi capital upon rebelling, leading to some very weird stacks. I am not sure if this is still an issue in M2:TW.
strategos roma
07-08-2009, 08:34
Just out of curiosity, but where is the eleutheroi capital?
Mediolanicus
07-08-2009, 08:51
Just out of curiosity, but where is the eleutheroi capital?
The same as for any AI faction.
It is automatically placed in the middle of their "empire".
A Very Super Market
07-08-2009, 18:18
So, it should start out around Dalmatia or Segestica, and then usually moves to Central-Eastern Europe.
antisocialmunky
07-09-2009, 04:09
It would be nice to have more Rhesus like auto-spawn armies. Its like a boss fight.
strategos roma
07-09-2009, 07:52
Or modify their overall economy so they have a netto income.... I once try to play as slave in EB (moving someone into unplayable) and BAM! the money hit -40000 at the very first turn!... Giving them a stable economy might work...
How do you play as slave? And do you command all the rebel cities, armies and slaves or what?
A Very Super Market
07-09-2009, 08:06
They are difficult. Your economy tanks on the second turn, so I think that adding money is the only way to survive.
NavinKumar
07-09-2009, 18:56
The Eleutheroi capital in EB 1.2 was Bononia, but that damn city gave me all kinds of problems when trying to take it as Romans..crash crash crash...Sigh.
Mediolanicus
07-10-2009, 09:10
How do you play as slave? And do you command all the rebel cities, armies and slaves or what?
Yes, every rebel army is under your control.
Just move a faction into inplayable in descr_strat and the rebels will become playable.
But be warned, in the gameplay sense they are still unplayable...
strategos roma
07-14-2009, 04:38
Yes, every rebel army is under your control.
Just move a faction into inplayable in descr_strat and the rebels will become playable.
But be warned, it the gameplay sense they are still unplayable...
where is the descr_strat file.:help:
satalexton
07-14-2009, 07:50
I suggest you to give it up, you'll be half a million in the red the very moment you click 'end turn'.
Mediolanicus
07-14-2009, 08:08
where is the descr_strat file.:help:
Wow, someone who plays a TW game and doesn't know where the descr_strat is.
It's the file where you make all the unplayable/unlockable factions playable.
.../Data/World/Map/
and then the folder of the campaign you are playing. Unmodded that would be Imperial_campaign or something, but with BI or ALX installed, there will be another folder.
A Very Super Market
07-14-2009, 19:07
It isn't particularily rewarding. Apart from going into massive debt (Easily solved with add_money 40000), your armies will completely rout with any defeat.
Cartaphilus
07-14-2009, 20:31
In Third Age TW there is a "garrison script" that raises the number of garrisoned troops in the siege of some cities (like Moria), making the sieges more difficult.
In Third Age TW there is a "garrison script" that raises the number of garrisoned troops in the siege of some cities (like Moria), making the sieges more difficult.
:thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
:no:Oh god no... Please not... I beg you not!:no:
I like taking advantage when the Carthies leave the Qart-Hadast and Attiqa with one unit as garrison. Then I can raze those african cities to the ground.:beam:
The eleutheroi stacks in some cities are just plain ridiculous. I'd rather leave them alone than give them a full stack the next turn.
Cartaphilus
07-15-2009, 21:57
There are lots of players of Third Age TW that hate the "garrison script", just read their forum.
Cute Wolf
07-16-2009, 06:49
Garrison script means forcing players to play with siege engines.... If that was applied, I hope the EB team discount their price...
Isn't there a way to script the Eleutheroi capital to be at Terhazza? that way they would be unable to spawn Silly stacks outside of Terhazza which is unlikely to be taken^^ tho I don'T know if that would mess up some other things.
A Very Super Market
07-16-2009, 17:47
Remember, they still have the AI of any other faction. They will simply move their capital to Bononia or something again.
Mediolanicus
07-16-2009, 18:11
Remember, they still have the AI of any other faction. They will simply move their capital to Bononia or something again.
Yes, that's why he asks why the script doesn't fix the capital to Terhazza, that way the AI can't change the capital.
Isn't there a way to script the Eleutheroi capital to be at Terhazza? that way they would be unable to spawn Silly stacks outside of Terhazza which is unlikely to be taken^^ tho I don'T know if that would mess up some other things.
No that is impossible
Foot
Isn't there a way to script the Eleutheroi capital to be at Terhazza? that way they would be unable to spawn Silly stacks outside of Terhazza which cannot be taken^^ tho I don'T know if that would mess up some other things.
Fixed that.
Skullheadhq
07-17-2009, 10:22
Isn't there a way to script the Eleutheroi capital to be at Terhazza? that way they would be unable to spawn Silly stacks outside of Terhazza which is unlikely to be taken^^ tho I don'T know if that would mess up some other things.
No, capital is set in the middle of their "Empire". And you can hardly say that Terhazza is in middle
John the Mad
07-18-2009, 19:38
Would it at least be possible to give some of the rebel cities a field army on top of the city garrison?
It would at least break up the monotony of siege warfare when fighting them in their provinces.
John the Mad
07-18-2009, 19:55
Sorry for double posting but i can't edit my posts...
Or would the Rebel field armies just go marching off somewhere else instead of staying put?
A Very Super Market
07-19-2009, 06:29
The rebels are still a faction. On VH (Or on any difficulty as the Casse) there will be wandering armies that can attack you, but most of the time, they just move them back into a city to garrison.
Skullheadhq
07-22-2009, 18:31
That sucks
helenos aiakides
07-29-2009, 02:21
I remember in Broken Crescent there are stacks which hang outside cities
Chris1959
08-04-2009, 09:39
It would be nice if rebel stacks that pop up on your lands got stronger and more aggressive if you didn't deal with them adding an extra unit every three or four turns!
John the Mad
08-04-2009, 10:28
Thre is a big difference between RTW uprisings an MTWII ones.
In RTW the composistion of uprisings make sense..in MTWII you often find yourself facing units two generations ahead of the best unit you can field.Add in the fact that half the times they are a half stack with a named leader and you go boo.CA went overboard on rebels.Not to mention there is a 50/50 chance of moving your own units around with them turning into rebels without a family member present.
CA went way overboard on rebels.
Thre is a big difference between RTW uprisings an MTWII ones.
In RTW the composistion of uprisings make sense..in MTWII you often find yourself facing units two generations ahead of the best unit you can field.Add in the fact that half the times they are a half stack with a named leader and you go boo.CA went overboard on rebels.Not to mention there is a 50/50 chance of moving your own units around with them turning into rebels without a family member present.
CA went way overboard on rebels.
One of a few reasons i despise MIITW. Those unguarded stacks always rebel...
Nowadays, I must have a FM with troops at all times, two if the leader is an old man.
John the Mad
08-07-2009, 05:52
One of a few reasons i despise MIITW. Those unguarded stacks always rebel...
Nowadays, I must have a FM with troops at all times, two if the leader is an old man.
Which is a pain.I can understand the reasoning but it is a pain if all you want to do is create a garrison unit in A and move it to C or move an army from the control of one family member to another without having to take two turns to reposistion both FM's.
Really though why are armoured seargents,feudal knights,and armoured swordsmen showing up 2-3 turns into the game when the best unit you can produce is militia spear?
the unique joe
08-07-2009, 07:58
i never have loyalty issues honest to god the only times i lose characters to rebellion is when its a very small contingent 2-4 units in a hostile land surrounded by rich diplomats. maybe its because im a nice guy?
Cambyses
08-07-2009, 14:37
Yeah, you need to have a faction leader with reasonable authority - and only move those stacks without a FM within your own territory. it reduces the risk of rebellion massively.
Back on topic - with the increased number of factions in EBII, the rebels will hopefully be less of an issue. After all you want the AI factions to grow at a roughly proportional rate to yourself, in order for the game to remain competitive. If the rebels are stronger it will mean the AI factions expand slower - especially in certain areas.
the unique joe
08-07-2009, 22:16
that is a huge feature that would be highly appreciated, in broken crescent in my omani campaign it took barely 20 turns for the kwarezmian shah to begin a full on invasion of my kingdom, not only did i have to place half stack armies at every bridge imaginable to stem the tide but for kicks i turned FoW off and everyone had at least 15-20 territory kingdoms compared to my meagre 7, my friend the shah had seemed to conquer territories in a straight path to just get to me. it truly was a repeat in porportion to russia subduing georgia last year.
and yes i am a ranter....
Ibn-Khaldun
08-08-2009, 22:07
Which is a pain.I can understand the reasoning but it is a pain if all you want to do is create a garrison unit in A and move it to C or move an army from the control of one family member to another without having to take two turns to reposistion both FM's.
You can use "fort-hopping-tactic". Just build forts between your towns and you can this way send units from one town to another without using FM for that.
Mind you, I think you cannot build forts in EBII and also that if you could, it would cost you much and you have to keep the forts garisoned with one unit or more at all times.
Horatius Flaccus
08-08-2009, 23:51
it would cost you much
Forts are free in EB. :book:
Ibn-Khaldun
08-09-2009, 12:43
I haven't followed the development of EB II but what kind of forts will they use? Those Permanent ones? If so then we can't build forts after all. If they use usual forts then in Kingdoms some units have free upkeep in there.
But in EB I all forts are free indeed. If they would cost something then I never would've build my Limes in Germania as Romans. ~;)
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