Pool: The best "cheap infantrymen" for staple...

[Cute Wolf]

I mean, what's the best of the "crappy class" infantry that you find the best to put in use as massive staple of your Imperial army?

Giving their wide acess, and cost-upkeep comparison... with their performance...

Need the EB-ers opinion....

Cute Wolf

(nb: Please wait for the pools to be shown)

[NickTheGreek]

Hastati - cheap as you like and don't break easily. I suppose they fall under shortswordsmen so I'll go with that. Although Hoplitai provide a good rock around which to base things...

[Skullheadhq]

Haploi, I destroyed Makedonia and Epeiros with just Haploi and Akontistai

[mountaingoat]

drap ftw , though why you do you not have daoi on there?

[tls5669]

Some of those cheap axemen are great staple troops.

[Ibrahim]

the najraanis*-they count as crazy levy, along with the drapanai.

*"red sea" axmen.

[Phalanx300]

Of that list the Phalangitai Deuteroi are probably the best unit classified as levies.

It would depend on your faction, as the Koinen Hellenon the Hoplitai Haploi are a live saver for their quality and money. The Phalangitai Deuteroi as Makedonia are very strong units but then again also have a much higher cost. These units probably followed by the Germanic Levies, they seem to be a somewhat good levy unit as well seeing that had to be worthy of their freedom and were in war since childhood. :idea2:

[Andy1984]

A hard choice between skirmishers like akontistai and spendonetai on the one hand, and rorarii and hastati on the other. Skirmishers are my preferred garrisson units. They're excellent for dealing damage to bigger armies, but they will need some help from more professional units.

[Cute Wolf]

Although personally still thinks the archer -spearmen class is the best in term of numbers compared to the cost and effectiveness (Persian archer spearmen is terribly damn cheap but still good so they do worth their lives as bulk of my lines to absorb (and reply) any prolonged missile battle that I do when mowing down Seleukid and Pahlavans. ), I was surprised that no one mention Pantodapoi... I remember someone says them as surprisingly good unit... but at least, no one loves meatshielding much I guess...

And about what I told about "crazy levies" yes... that was "levy class" troops that best deployed against much better units.. because they have terribly effective attack... ultra high morale.... or (OMFG what did they do to my Hypaspistai?!?) such as drapanai and Red sea axemen (they pwnd one of my Saka FM!)...

[Andy1984]

I agree with you on the pantodapoi. They're quite cost effective when playing in the early seleucid campaign. But I particularly dislike the persian archer spearmen, preferring the persian archer instead. At least they have fast moving + good stamina, which seems more important to me than actual combat stats. (I mean, I don't like to trust persian archer spearmen not go get routed by even the lowest and most depleted of all enemy cavalry-units.)

kind regards,

Andy

[Cute Wolf]

I agree with you on the pantodapoi. They're quite cost effective when playing in the early seleucid campaign. But I particularly dislike the persian archer spearmen, preferring the persian archer instead. At least they have fast moving + good stamina, which seems more important to me than actual combat stats. (I mean, I don't like to trust persian archer spearmen not go get routed by even the lowest and most depleted of all enemy cavalry-units.)

kind regards,

Andy

Well, you should try Baktrian campaign, and see, what the Saka and Pahlavans sent to you.... a full stack of HA's..... at least when I was the saka myself, I was able to charge Thanvare Payahdag with my worst HA's head on easily, and that safe my ammo greatly... but Nizagan-i Eranshar will give a headache because their spears will ensure my HA's to be poked to the death. Against those grey death infantrymen, they also still had a chance, actually a big chance to stab the depleted survivors of pantodapoi, try to reach them... but Those thanvare payahdag can't hold better. They also had 25 mnai more on upkeep... something that you'll think about when you goes nuts and keep 14 units of them in one army (the rest is cav...)

[DaciaJC]

I mean, what's the best of the "crappy class" infantry that you find the best to put in use as massive staple of your Imperial army?

Giving their wide acess, and cost-upkeep comparison... with their performance...

Need the EB-ers opinion....


Drapanai are definitely not "crappy". Their cost/upkeep may give the impression of a mere levy unit, but I count them as among the highest-tier units in the Getic roster (and in the whole game, even).

[athanaric]

Drapanai are definitely not "crappy". Their cost/upkeep may give the impression of a mere levy unit, but I count them as among the highest-tier units in the Getic roster (and in the whole game, even).

Quite true. They have twice the morale of most levy units, plus they are surely not meant to be as numerous as the Komatai skirmishers (whom I wouldn't place in the same category as Akontistai btw.).

[Cute Wolf]

so that's why i had "crazy levy" type.... levies that supposed to surpass elite units :laugh4:

[Allhopeforhumanity]

Recently I started a campaign with the casse, and I have to say that their cheap Shortswordsmen are amazing for how little they cost. Sure they get tore up by any sort of concentrated missile fire, but the sheer number of them you can field more than makes up for their vulnerabilities. And if you happen to get a few squads behind their line, their javelins are just plain devastating.

[satalexton]

peltastai, multi-roled. also serve as decent settlement stormers/manspam.

[J.R.M]

Hoplitai Haploi :2thumbsup:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I agree. Hoplitai Haploi are very good units. If properly used they can defeat even stronger opponents(but not elites though).

[Flavius_Belisarius]

If those leavy phalangits also count, then the Phalangitai Pandatopai.

[Andronikos]

Archer-spearmen, cheap, flexible, bombards enemy with arrows and then finishes them with spears.

[Olaf The Great]

The cheap longswordsman unit for the Gauls(The shirtless one) is great.

But best levy unit IMO is probably Hoplitai Haploi because of their versatility and formation.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

It depends heavily on your playing style. For my Baktrian very varied armies, Archer-Spearmen are pretty good.

They fire arrows, supoorting Persian Archers. They hold the line for a while, supporting my Phalanxes' flanks until melee troops arrived. They are double-role unit and they are damn cheap, i think it counts very much. For a few bucks you will have 2 levy units in one.

[tls5669]

Speaking of which, the Dorkim Shardanim are pretty good also, they're the archer spearmen of the west. I send boatloads of them down to Carthage, good garrison units.

[Celtic_Punk]

Of that list the Phalangitai Deuteroi are probably the best unit classified as levies.

It would depend on your faction, as the Koinen Hellenon the Hoplitai Haploi are a live saver for their quality and money. The Phalangitai Deuteroi as Makedonia are very strong units but then again also have a much higher cost. These units probably followed by the Germanic Levies, they seem to be a somewhat good levy unit as well seeing that had to be worthy of their freedom and were in war since childhood. :idea2:

if you can't afford proper hoplites then haploi will save your ass, as long as they're flanks are secure they can be depended on. Keep them in the core of your line. They refuse to give ground and give a good account of themselves. They can easily kill over twice their casualties if used correctly. Remember, centre of the line. keep your proper men on the flanks.

A favourite tactic of mine is to pull your haploi centre back, let their men rush forward, and create a long V with your men on the outside and them on the inside. charge with the centre and take them off guardmode, if you have cavalry run them down the centre of the V and everything will rout.

[MerlinusCDXX]

if you can't afford proper hoplites then haploi will save your ass, as long as they're flanks are secure they can be depended on. Keep them in the core of your line. They refuse to give ground and give a good account of themselves. They can easily kill over twice their casualties if used correctly. Remember, centre of the line. keep your proper men on the flanks.

A favourite tactic of mine is to pull your haploi centre back, let their men rush forward, and create a long V with your men on the outside and them on the inside. charge with the centre and take them off guardmode, if you have cavalry run them down the centre of the V and everything will rout.

Sounds like the Hannibal Barca tactic lives on. Does work well though.

I took the 'crazy levies' option. Draps (to CHAAAARRRRGEE) combined with horsearchers ( to draw missile fire from the Draps) works for me.

[antisocialmunky]

Hoplitai Haploi gets mauled by anything with a sword though.

[Zim]

I like the archer spearmen (whatever their faction and flavor) as the best all around levies. As far as acting as the "anvil" I'd say the deutoroi or pantodopai phalangitai, though, and for all around melee I'd likely choose those celtic short swordsmen or Domatai...

[Conqueror]

The levy phalanx, especially the Pantodapoi Phalangitai. Will hold the line against frontal assaults by all except the elitiest of units; just have their flanks secured by other troops and they can keep on pinning forever. Not to mention a BIG area of recruitment. The local ( = Pantodapoi ) variety also has AP axes as their secondary weapon, so they deal surprisingly good damage vs heavily armoured foes if forced to fight out of formation. Their large head count per unit also makes them very effective garrison troops.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

I like the archer spearmen (whatever their faction and flavor) as the best all around levies. As far as acting as the "hammer" I'd say the deutoroi or pantodopai phalangitai, though, and for alla round melee I'd likely choose those celtic short swordsmen or Domatai...

Phalangites are anvils, not hammers

[Maion Maroneios]

Since when are javelineers or archers categorized as infantrymen? :inquisitive:

As for the rest that actually fit to the title, I'd go for the Haploi. They are quite reliable in holding a line, even against superior forces and numbers. As long as provided with reasonable protection at the flanks and some decent Strategos to keep them motivated.

Maion

[A Very Super Market]

Heh, don't legionaires count?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Voted for Archer Spearmen. Great all around unit for taking down HA's as well as melee cavalry. Two of these will take down the Pahlav or Saka early bodyguard if they charge.

I have not played yet as Getai though I'm sure Drapani are awesome.

Hoplitai Haploi are up there as well. Solid line unit, especially for their price. Save your behind early on as both Makedon and Koinon Hellenon.

Heres one no one has talked about though. Iberi Milites. Is it just me or do I find these guys to be among some of the best troops you can buy in the West? They have a strong javilin attack, great stamina, are very fast, and fight really well in melee. I think I'm just partial towards Iberian units.:smash::smash:

[Rahwana]

Voted for skirmisher, their numbers alone can mob up your enemy and hold them in place for surprisingly long time...

[satalexton]

the peltastai or the plain ol' akonkistai?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Phalangitai Deuteroi are not even "cheap", let alone militia quality infantry. I would say they are line troops, for their cost, number and strenght.

Hoplitai Haploi are decent militia, but they come in too low numbers. Low quality troops necessarily need to absorb a lot of casualties since I leave them for dangerous duties, like soaking arrows, pulling rams or being part of the front line to absorb enemy attacks, and as such the more the better.

Iberi Milites are bar none probably the best militia in the game - flexible, resilient and cheap. They win over Haploi for a small margin.

[Zim]

Fixed.


Phalangites are anvils, not hammers

[godsakes]

Value wise, the casse shortswordsmen are tough to beat

Only cheapo slingers/archers seem to have a lower upkeep - they make cheap garrison troops and decent battle fodder which punch above their weight. Since they're so cheap and easy to replace/retrain you can spam them to overwhelm most of Europe

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I should add, right now in my Sweboz campaign Jugundiz and Gaezosfulxom Fryod are the best fodder I could ever have.

[Xurr]

Drapanai all the way. These guys can stand toe to toe with just about anything and not break. Heck I've had them fight until there was only 2 guys left in the unit and still not break. They also tend to cause more casualties than they take. Their only real weakness is from missile troops, to which they die in droves.

[DaciaJC]

Drapanai all the way. These guys can stand toe to toe with just about anything and not break. Heck I've had them fight until there was only 2 guys left in the unit and still not break. They also tend to cause more casualties than they take. Their only real weakness is from missile troops, to which they die in droves.

Yup. If managed correctly, Drapanai can easily kill 4 or 5 enemies for every one of their losses, on average. The opposite would be true if they face missile troops, though. :sweatdrop:

[antisocialmunky]

They are one of hte few troops that Toxotai work against... Which is kinda sad if you think about it.

[Prussian to the Iron]

archer-spearmen FTW!!!

basically, instead of sitting around when they're in your reserves or deserted flanks, they can provide real archer support, then charge in when needed. they should not be relied on to hold the line against phalanx or elite units, but they can usually hold their own versus most early game units.

[Hooahguy]

i voted for Drapanai. this unit is awesome for low price.
but even such, i didnt recruit them much when i played EB. id rather spend more on better units, since the drapanai rout easily under missile fire.

[Xurr]

i voted for Drapanai. this unit is awesome for low price.
but even such, i didnt recruit them much when i played EB. id rather spend more on better units, since the drapanai rout easily under missile fire.


Yeah, that's why I never use them as line troops. I use Getikoi Stratiotai or Komatai Thorakitai Stratiotai
or lately Boii Cingetos as line troops and Drapanai as cheap assault shock troops. I throw them at phalangitai and watch them rip the unit to pieces.

[Cute Wolf]

I wonder, why there wasn't any men mentioning pantodapoi? No one loves zergling in EB?

[Maion Maroneios]

Pantodapoi are crap :tongue: Good just for suicidal missions or garrison units.

Maion

[Cute Wolf]

That's why,I ask for anyone that fond of zerging tactics in EB... :laugh4:

[Maion Maroneios]

Indeed :yes:

Maion

[Mikhail Mengsk]

You create only one per turn, zergling were produced in couples so they were better than Pantadopoi XD

[Cute Wolf]

Hope EB II comes with multiple slots and near instant - replenishments for the low rank units.... so the zerging tactics become appropriate...

[antisocialmunky]

They were pretty ridiculous once you got 'ling speed and 'ling attack speed and they turned into cracklings. Then they just killed everything and you could combo it with darkswarm to pwn those siege tanks and marine blobs.

[Phalanx300]

I'm getting too young for this. :clown:

[Watchman]

Since when are javelineers or archers categorized as infantrymen? :inquisitive:Whenever they weren't sitting on a horse. Duh.

One relatively good one is the Caucasian levy spearmen - they're pretty much just Pantodapoi with different skin and better morale, but dirt cheap and early on in a Hayasdan campaign one is wont to learn how to use them effectively (in tandem with diverse missile troops and FamiCav) to maul those pike stacks the Seleukids keep sending through the passes. Not that I for one didn't replace them with the rather tougher Hai sparabara as soon as the budget allowed, mind you, but scavenger economy is scavenger economy and teaches you to get a good mileage out of the most meager resources.

One option the poll also needs is those el cheapo axemen found from Asia Minor to the Hindu Kush in various versions. Another cheap bunch that sees a lot of use shredding phalanxes.

[Cute Wolf]

Ironic, how ironic...

In EB, we are forced to use "quality over quantity".... :laugh4: so no one loves Zerglings....
If Hoplitai Haploi numbers are raised to 120, maybe the Zerg was KH! :laugh3:

[Phalanx300]

I've noticed that the Germanic levy are 240 units on huge as the Phalangites, perhaps they are the Zerg of the tales of old?:inquisitive:

[DaciaJC]

In EB, we are forced to use "quality over quantity"....

Often enough, I find that quantity will beat quality, particularly in the case of cavalry.

[J.R.M]

So germans the ancient zergs, mmmmmm so... Who would be Kerrigan!?
Any Idea? :idea2:

BTW. Hoplitai Haploi Just 4 more votes to be Number 1!!

[Watchman]

I've noticed that the Germanic levy are 240 units on huge as the Phalangites, perhaps they are the Zerg of the tales of old?:inquisitive:Standard for barb levy spears - compare eg. Lugoae and the Thracian spear militia.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

More important, who's the Ultralisk? And WHERE THE HELL IS MY GRANDFATHER ARCTURUS? XD

[Prussian to the Iron]

am i the only one here who always plays on huge unit settings????

[Watchman]

No, I do it too. I find it makes the battlefield suitably crowded and the units appropriately unwieldy...

[antisocialmunky]

Eh, Drapnai are the zerglings hands down. The other levies are more like SCVs/Drones/Probes.

[Watchman]

For the record, the base quality level of the Draps is "regular" rather than "levy/militia"... and for the sake of comparision, the Bastarnae are on base "veteran".

[J.R.M]

Are You Crazy!? drapanai don´t come in large numbers (thx god), only 160, plus those little zerglins just suck seriously. However i must say that im a protoss player so for me every zerg unit sucks, but that´s off topic now.

[antisocialmunky]

I think that's what Bisu(#1 Protoss) was thinking in this match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l24MM4wXH0&feature=channel_page

Massive lulz ensued.

[J.R.M]

Ahh... the good old Koreans.. sometimes i think they take this too seriously:dizzy2:
LoL.. Yellow kicked Bisu´s @ss:smash:

[antisocialmunky]

Speaking of too seriously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2aWBSJyVlU

Oh FireBatHero...

Not as funny as the time he got owned by Much with that Pylon Heart...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eawRIYwSgFY&feature=related

[Azathoth]

Oh man, the last time I played Starcraft was 2 years ago. And that reminds me...


Note to self - finish Terran campaign ASAP and play the rest of the game already.
:uhoh::tomato2:

[gamegeek2]

Yes, the South Koreans are obsessed with StarCraft.

When is Starcraft II coming out? Only played the original game once...hope it's better than AOE III online.

[J.R.M]

Well AFAIK Dustin Browder (lead designer of Starcraft 2) said that the Beta will come something like August or near that month, and the game would be ready at the end of this year or if things slow a bit it should be finished at the first months of the next year. Luckily for me patience is one of my virtues (hope is not the only).:wall:

[Ignopotens]

Drapanai, without a doubt

Although, as Saba, those Archer-Spearmen saved my ass more than once

[Rahwana]

I once try to use drapanai against someone on mutiplayer.... and I get a total defeat from those pesky horse archers!!!! At least akontistai can give them a good impalement!!!:furious3:

[WinsingtonIII]

Since this is my first post I'm going to start by just thanking the EB team for a truly incredible and intellectually enlightening gaming experience, even though they might not see this.

That being said, I had to go for Drapanai. They may die under missile fire faster than almost any other unit, but when used as flankers they can cut through almost any unit in the game like butter, including multi-hit point general's bodyguards. I've even sent them head to head against Hypastists, and they came off the better in that fight (I may have been lucky though). For about 800 mnai and a pretty decent AOR (at only a level-2 factional MIC nonetheless) they have been lifesavers in my Getai campaign, taking down the enemy heavy armor that I can't really match for a fraction of the price.

As for the archer-spearmen, I used them in my Baktrian campaign, and they weren't as versatile as I had hoped. Regular persian archers are better archers, with more range, and although the archer-spearmen hold in melee better than most archers, they don't have the staying power or morale to be actually relied upon for more than a few seconds against any but the lightest units. I bet if I had been using an army more focused on light units overall they would have been much better, but since I was still using a hellenic phalanx core, their melee didn't make up for the fact that they were worse archers than persians or subeshis. In an all-light unit Saba army, however, I could see their limited melee capabilities coming in handy. I'm thinking about starting a Hayasadan campaign soon and I bet they would be more useful in that sort of army as well.

[Geticus]

Drapanai are great, but Dakian komatai skirmisher will crush them one on one and deal severe damage when they turn the flank and fire javelins in the flank or rear. Playing Getai I can't count the number of times I have seen the screen switch to an enemy general's death scene and who gets the kill-- a lowly komatai with his one-handed AP falx.

Similar to that are the Sweboz Jugunthiz skirmishers, fast moving, high stam, dirt cheap, easy to levy with 3 chevrons, lethal via flank volleys and put enemy cavalry down pretty consistently.

[athanaric]

As for the archer-spearmen, I used them in my Baktrian campaign, and they weren't as versatile as I had hoped. Regular persian archers are better archers, with more range, and although the archer-spearmen hold in melee better than most archers, they don't have the staying power or morale to be actually relied upon for more than a few seconds against any but the lightest units. I bet if I had been using an army more focused on light units overall they would have been much better, but since I was still using a hellenic phalanx core, their melee didn't make up for the fact that they were worse archers than persians or subeshis. In an all-light unit Saba army, however, I could see their limited melee capabilities coming in handy. I'm thinking about starting a Hayasadan campaign soon and I bet they would be more useful in that sort of army as well.

Don't forget that Arabian Archer-Spearmen are better than the regular ones, especially in terms of range. This, and the fact that they have the longest range of all native Sabaean units, makes them one of the most important units for Saba. The best Archer-Spearmen are still Medjinikos, though.




a lowly komatai with his one-handed AP falx.
Komatai swords are not AP. They have a decent lethality, though (.13). That said, IIRC I had some Komatai kill a Ptolemaioi general in my current Swêboz campaign, too.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I once try to use drapanai against someone on mutiplayer.... and I get a total defeat from those pesky horse archers!!!! At least akontistai can give them a good impalement!!!:furious3:

Using them against horse archers is like using hammer against missile launched 100 miles from you!
You better learn where, when and against who you can use them. Especially when you play multiplayer!

[A Very Super Market]

Yes, there are certain things you want to avoid when playing against certain factions. For example, using unarmoured units with no sheilds against horse-archers. Likewise, charging light cavalry into phalanxes, of against heavy cavalry. Using archers against cataphracts (Not Caucasians) also comes to mind as a poor idea.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

The definite Getai strategy involves Drapanai. They are just too cheap and effective to be ignored: I usually place my spearmen on the Center, Drapanai on the flanks. Also avoid having them getting charged at by cavalry, that's bad. That's also why you have Doryphoroi for.

[DaciaJC]

Yes, I would generally keep Drapanai out of the way of cavalry charges... but once said cavalry are bogged down in melee, Drapanai excel at taking them out, performing even better than spearmen.

[Geticus]

Komatai swords are not AP. They have a decent lethality, though (.13). That said, IIRC I had some Komatai kill a Ptolemaioi general in my current Swêboz campaign, too.

I'll be damned, I always assumed they were since they are falxes. At any rate with the Getai general's high morale bonuses I typically find them to be steady enough in melee to wear the enemy out after the initial javelin volleys. They're good enough until one is able to levy Thraikian peltasts proper.

[Cambyses]

I really dont see drapanai as levies, that role surely falls to the (excellent) dacian skirmishers.

I voted for hoplitai haploi as they really can perform the role of a "staple" line troop in early armies, and even later on they make a strong reserve/support unit - so long as they arent fighting an elite phalanx head on!

Roraii [sp] are a comparable Roman unit, although of course they are unlikely to see much action against higher end units.

Agreed that archer-spearmen are exceptionally good value for money and essential for both Bactria and Saba, but woudlnt say they are "staple" troops, more a support unit.

[DaciaJC]

I'll be damned, I always assumed they were since they are falxes.

Actually, what the Komatai carry is a sica, not a falx.

[Rahwana]

Roraii [sp] are a comparable Roman unit, although of course they are unlikely to see much action against higher end units.

And rorarii only recruitable in certain provinces, and for more, after the reform, they are unretrainable

[WinsingtonIII]

Drapanai are great, but Dakian komatai skirmisher will crush them one on one and deal severe damage when they turn the flank and fire javelins in the flank or rear. Playing Getai I can't count the number of times I have seen the screen switch to an enemy general's death scene and who gets the kill-- a lowly komatai with his one-handed AP falx.

Similar to that are the Sweboz Jugunthiz skirmishers, fast moving, high stam, dirt cheap, easy to levy with 3 chevrons, lethal via flank volleys and put enemy cavalry down pretty consistently.


Geticus, I certainly agree that Komatai are very versatile and effective units, and they certainly would destroy Draps in a one on one, as they could just run around throwing javelins at them, and we all know Drapanai suck against missiles. Basically Komatai and Drapanai combined are a very effective, and very cheap, infantry destroying machine. However, you're probably going to need some spearmen or else you will be slaughtered by cavalry. But, you have to admit, Komatai couldn't take on Hypastists from the front, whereas my Drapanai certainly did pull that off. Plus, that .26 lethality falx is pretty impressive when compared to a .13 lethality sica (although that's still great for such a cheap unit). Overall I guess Komatai probably are more versatile and I make them a part of every Getai army, but I just have a soft spot for Drapanai.

[WinsingtonIII]

Don't forget that Arabian Archer-Spearmen are better than the regular ones, especially in terms of range. This, and the fact that they have the longest range of all native Sabaean units, makes them one of the most important units for Saba. The best Archer-Spearmen are still Medjinikos, though.

Sorry for the double post, I didn't notice this reply at first. I'll keep in mind that Arabians are better if I ever make it far south enough to recruit them. What are the Medjinikos though? Are they those Baltic archer-spearmen that I keep hearing about but have never seen or used?

[moonburn]

hoploi for the win they can hold anything on guard mode

[Geticus]

Geticus, I certainly agree that Komatai are very versatile and effective units, and they certainly would destroy Draps in a one on one, as they could just run around throwing javelins at them, and we all know Drapanai suck against missiles. Basically Komatai and Drapanai combined are a very effective, and very cheap, infantry destroying machine. However, you're probably going to need some spearmen or else you will be slaughtered by cavalry. But, you have to admit, Komatai couldn't take on Hypastists from the front, whereas my Drapanai certainly did pull that off. Plus, that .26 lethality falx is pretty impressive when compared to a .13 lethality sica (although that's still great for such a cheap unit). Overall I guess Komatai probably are more versatile and I make them a part of every Getai army, but I just have a soft spot for Drapanai.

Basically I love the Draps, but the way I see it they can't occupy the front line vs. any competent combined arms opponent because they are arrow/javelin/bullet bait. In fact in custom battles with komatai vs. drapanai there is no need for komatai to skirmish, they can just march forward on autofire, when the draps charge in range they eat 1,200 continuous javelins (huge unit size) which means they tend to route without the need for skirmish mode. So for me drapanai are basically reserve and second line forces, and as such they are a notch below komatai because the komatai hold the front line which is the place of honor.
As for komatai, I agree they are vulnerable to cavalry charges but their ambush skills, stamina, and javelins partly compensate. If put on a slope or some strong point, then they can get the first strike in via javelins before the cavalry hit home, and typically if the cavalry charge I just charge right back, take 20 casualties or whatever and slug it out. That of course is when the bodyguards and drapanai et al. come into play.
Really with Getai I have found it so easy to get big morale boosts like "gifted killer" "zealot of zalmoxes" "shieldbiter" etc. that the komatai almost never route regardless of cavalry charges and they hold the line fine. Playing on very hard campaign/hard battle, in the early phase of a Getai campaign all I use are Sarmizegethusan komatai in the front line, no light phalanxes, no Thraikian spearmen, nothing but Komatai hordes, slingers, Scythian archers, a couple few draps and the a unit or two of bodyguards.
But if I had to play only one unit- draps or komatai it would be the komatai hands down, and mid game if I want to get multiple armies of conquest, chances are I start levying 3 chevron komatai out of Sarmizegethusa again to fill out the front line since peltasts and phalanxes are a bit expensive.

Oh and point conceded about the drapanai pawning hypaspists, KH bodyguards, triarii and the like, they are pretty peerless for that but by the time I get Thraikian peltasts I find that peltasts + cavalry charges give me all the armor piercing I need so the draps at that point are just wall defense mostly. And anyhow by the time Makedon starts to be able to levy hypaspists in any meaningful numbers, Pella has already fallen to my komatai ;).

[Megas Methuselah]

Oh and point conceded about the drapanai pawning hypaspists, KH bodyguards, triarii and the like, they are pretty peerless for that but by the time I get Thraikian peltasts I find that peltasts + cavalry charges give me all the armor piercing I need so the draps at that point are just wall defense mostly. And anyhow by the time Makedon starts to be able to levy hypaspists in any meaningful numbers, Pella has already fallen to my komatai ;).

A fine tactic. One which, might I add, I haven't failed to use. :evilgrin:

[godsakes]

the casse shortswordsman are great front line battlefodder - on their own their morale lets them down but when you support them with a few morale boasting units they'll hold their ground and through sheer numbers (as they're so cheap) you can wear away armies with higher grade units.

[athanaric]

Sorry for the double post, I didn't notice this reply at first. I'll keep in mind that Arabians are better if I ever make it far south enough to recruit them. What are the Medjinikos though? Are they those Baltic archer-spearmen that I keep hearing about but have never seen or used?

Yup. Though it is important to remember that there are two kind of Baltic Archers: the Lonkīnīkōs, who are slightly better than Germanic or Celtic archers but nothing special, and the Medjīnīkōs (Baltic Frontiersmen), who are the strongest Archer-Spearmen, although their range and attack is slightly lower than that of the Arabian guys. Btw., I suspect that only Saba can recruit the latter.



;358
type arabian missile northern arab levy
dictionary arabian_missile_northern_arab_levy ; Giusim Aravim Tsfonim
category infantry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier eastern_missile_eransahrarshtbara_northernarab, 40, 0, 0.95
mount_effect horse -2, elephant +1, chariot +4
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy, hide_long_grass
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 0, arrow, 196, 25, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 11, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 2, 9, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 1, -2
stat_mental 9, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 842, 211, 149, 50, 842
ownership saba




;415
type germanic missile lankininkas
dictionary germanic_missile_lankininkas ; Lankininkas
category infantry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier germanic_missile_lankininkas_medininkas, 40, 0, 0.9
mount_effect chariot +2, elephant -2, horse -2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 0, arrow, 160, 15, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 12, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 2, 8, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, 0
stat_mental 8, low, untrained
stat_charge_dist 25
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 657, 164, 299, 47, 657
ownership britons, gauls, scythia, germans, spain, dacia, slave, egypt, seleucid, thrace, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, armenia, pontus, parthia, saba, greek_cities

;416
type germanic missile medininkas
dictionary germanic_missile_medininkas ; Medininkas
category infantry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier germanic_missile_lankininkas_medininkas, 40, 0, 0.95
mount_effect chariot +2, elephant -2, horse -2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy, mercenary_unit
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 0, arrow, 187, 25, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 14, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 2, 12, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, 0
stat_mental 11, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 25
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1021, 255, 299, 47, 1021
ownership britons, gauls, scythia, germans, spain, dacia, slave, egypt, seleucid, thrace, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, armenia, pontus, parthia, saba, greek_cities

[WinsingtonIII]

@Geticus
I think we're actually agreeing with each other in a roundabout way. You're right, Komatai are a more versatile unit, and with a few chevrons and morale bonuses, they can really just take care of themselves very well for such a cheap unit (although cavalry would still be a problem). Drapanai, on the other hand, are great in some situations and terrible in others. But they were the option in the poll and Komatai weren't, so that's why I picked them.

Yeah in my Getai campaign I thought I had almost destroyed Makedonia pretty early on (except for that island). But later I discovered them rampaging across Asia Minor, and had to fight them all over again, which is when that Hypastist/Drapanai encounter occurred. On the bright side, Pontus was actually doing well (which you don't see very often) for a while because the AS and Ptolies were occupied by the Maks. But then Pontus became my main enemy and I was forced to reduce them to the status they are in most games haha



Yup. Though it is important to remember that there are two kind of Baltic Archers: the Lonkīnīkōs, who are slightly better than Germanic or Celtic archers but nothing special, and the Medjīnīkōs (Baltic Frontiersmen), who are the strongest Archer-Spearmen, although their range and attack is slightly lower than that of the Arabian guys. Btw., I suspect that only Saba can recruit the latter.

Thanks for the info, those Arabians definitely have much longer range than the Persian guys do. It's too bad that they're only factional, I would have expected a fairly low-level archer unit to be regional as well. Those Baltic Frontiersmen are good too, it's too bad I don't really feel like ever expanding into the desolate area where you find them.

[Watchman]

It's too bad that they're only factional, I would have expected a fairly low-level archer unit to be regional as well.Model-sharing issues, I'm afraid. (Somewhat unnecessary ones though.)

[Mediterraneo]

Hello everybody.
In love with my Seleucid Kingdom bonespine, i voted (Pantodapoi) Phalangitai.
Huge numbers, reasonably good to resist against missile if you need, untouchables in a "hand to hand" fight as it resolves in a "hand to sarissa" thing for long enough to envelop the enemy and kill him with something you have at hand (even another PP!). And in the rare event that they get caught out of formation? Oh, dear, you came with heavy armour... So kind of you....
And in the face of their rival to the victory in this poll, in the direct confrontation they could sooner be bored to death than routed.
To me it's the best.
But i must admit i'm the kind of people listening to which his car is always the best on the Earth, even if it changes...

[Ibrahim]

Hello everybody.
In love with my Seleucid Kingdom bonespine, i voted (Pantodapoi) Phalangitai.
Huge numbers, reasonably good to resist against missile if you need, untouchables in a "hand to hand" fight as it resolves in a "hand to sarissa" thing for long enough to envelop the enemy and kill him with something you have at hand (even another PP!). And in the rare event that they get caught out of formation? Oh, dear, you came with heavy armour... So kind of you....
And in the face of their rival to the victory in this poll, in the direct confrontation they could sooner be bored to death than routed.
To me it's the best.
But i must admit i'm the kind of people listening to which his car is always the best on the Earth, even if it changes...

that's why I always pack at least two regiments of "flankers". when I'm through using them on the PP's, there won't be any to speak of:clown: