Roman baldness

[Moosemanmoo]

How come so many of my FM's are bald?
Like seriously, I rarely get a bald Carthaginian or Macedonian (except Antigonos)
Yet about a third of my young, hip, Romani rockstars come of age with a slight lack of hair
Any reason for this? Or is it just for the lolz? :clown:

[Vasiliyi]

I WISH i could answer this the way I want to but.....

I think they were actually just balding people.

[Celtic_Punk]

random pictures.

though romans have a genetical predisposition to be bald money grubbing, powerhungry, demagogues. This has been scientifically proven on multiple levels.

[Watchman]

At least most of the busts of assorted Roman bigwigs (the subject AFAIK generally being in his forties or older) I can think of out of hand seem to suggest it was a pretty common trait among the patrician families, anyway. I also seem to have gotten the impression that the later Imperial elites from the provinces, ie. Romanised subjects, seem to have been less prone to it.

...not exactly scientifically solid, that.

[antisocialmunky]

No Hair = No Lice = No Gauls Ripping Your Scalp Off In Combat.

[Watchman]

Safety First - Wear A Helmet.

[antisocialmunky]

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/1/bald-headed-haircut.jpg
Celts do it better...

[Aemilius Paulus]

How come so many of my FM's are bald?
It could be explained quite easily by the fact that wearing a helmet for so much time in your life tends to cause that. Sure, there is padding, but from what I read, many knights in the Medieval times had shiny heads due to the hair being rubbed out by the helmet... Same could happen to the Romans. At the same time, the generals and senior officers had to wear helmets less than the soldiers, I would suppose, but still...

Most patricians would start in the army off higher or at least at the level of a centurion/primus pilus, correct? I do not recollect Roman nobility starting out as that or any lower. At the same time, even the chief commanders of armies would often fight alongside soldiers, and someone such as a legate was certainly expected to fight to hearten the men.

I wonder how accurate that would be?

[Jebivjetar]

I think that Romans did shave their heads because they didnt know to read correctly. Therefore they misunderstood one sentence like this:

"The gods favor the bAld"

:no:

[Cute Wolf]

But from HBO's ROME serial... I can conclude that most of the Patricians of Roma... they are just portayed as coitus-maniacs... and higher stance of testosterone in real condition often lead into baldness of hair...:yes:

[Maion Maroneios]

I think that Romans did shave their heads because they didnt know to read correctly. Therefore they misunderstood one sentence like this:

"The gods favor the bAld"

:no:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

:balloon2: :2thumbsup: :bow:

Maion

[machinor]

LOL @ jebivjetar! :beam:

[antisocialmunky]

"The gods favor the bAld"


:balloon2:

It should be 'Fortune Favors the Bald' but L0L.

[Aemilius Paulus]

But from HBO's ROME serial... I can conclude that most of the Patricians of Roma... they are just portayed as coitus-maniacs... and higher stance of testosterone in real condition often lead into baldness of hair...:yes:
Coarse joke aside, it is more likely the motion pictures of our day reflect ourselves better, and our obsession with coitus... It is all a part of the projection theory.

[option]

HBO's Rome is so awesome. Too bad it got cut short.

[Aemilius Paulus]

HBO's Rome is so awesome. Too bad it got cut short.
It did? I heard there was a possibility of the 3rd season, but it was dim. Is that true? In any case, HBO Rome would have been significantly better if they did not insert sex in every scene. And the varieties of sexual intercourse... Incest, sadomasochistic, old people, gay, lesbian, royal, rape, etc, the list goes on to a length that any other pornographic masterpiece itself would envy...

Not cool. But it probably explains why it was so popular amongst the common people :thumbsdown:. Who cares about Ancient Rome? They just want some excuse to watch porn so that their wife will not beat them.

EDIT: I heard the Tudors series was even more graphic in the sexual sense. Is that true? Is that possible? I thought the mainstream TV productions has to have no more than the US "R" rating.

[Maion Maroneios]

Ever considered the fact that Roman and Greek society was highly sex-driven? Because it was, especially amongst the lower class. Rape was not uncommon, as wasn't same-sex couples and all sorts of sexual-oriented payments if one was too poor.

Maion

[miotas]

The perception of the bald senator could just be simply because the most accomplished senators were older and as people get older there is a higher chance of hairloss. Plus Caesar was balding and when people think rome they automatically think Caesar.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Ever considered the fact that Roman and Greek society was highly sex-driven? Because it was, especially amongst the lower class. Rape was not uncommon, as wasn't same-sex couples and all sorts of sexual-oriented payments if one was too poor.

Yes, but those societies were highly driven by poetry as well, but you sure as hell do not see a lot of that in the series :furious3:!!! The point is, the film directors/producers/script-writers did not care about much beyond satisfying the masses in the all-pervasive, prolefeed-style pornography. I know you are not trying to tell me that HBO put sex in the series because it was historically accurate. Especially since they has lorica segmentata in those last episodes with Octavian-turning-into-Augustus.

And since sex is common driving force for our society, do you advocate that every film on contemporary culture must be "X" rated as well?

[Maion Maroneios]

I do agree they ovrreacted, Aimilios. Too much sex, yes, but for the people mostly. Not many are interested in ancient Rōmē as we are, you see. Got to keep things spicy, or you don't get enough viewers.

Maion

[Ca Putt]

you could also see sex as a tool to make a (for most people) boring topic interesting, along with violence which Imho is a much less "friendly thing". off course it's a cheap trick to attract attention and more important, money but it's also a trick to make a topic more interesting for the general public which as you may know is not really interested in late republican Rome.

edit: damn, I should refresh my browser tabs more frequent :D

edit2: seems as if this is a bit offtopic :/ so ontopic: It's probably because the pictures are supposed to look like senators or men of a more advanced age, I'm often amused of how old 16 year olds look^^

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

EDIT: I heard the Tudors series was even more graphic in the sexual sense. Is that true? Is that possible? I thought the mainstream TV productions has to have no more than the US "R" rating.

Nope, Rome has more explicit scenes than the Tudors, though it gets a bit spicy sometimes - Henry with Boleyn, then on later seasons Henry with Seymour, and that was as far as I watched it.

Every damn television show nowadays has sex sex sex, so I am not surprised.

[Ibrahim]

why is everybody arguing about why the romans are bald? here's how I see it:

1-god doesn't like the Roman's snobbery.

2-therefore, they must be bald, in order to be humiliated.

besides, if all the sex made people bald, how come baldness was rare among arabians? plenty of them had unlimited polygamy, and were insanely driven (one guy was nicknemed "3alqamah the stallion"). you'd expect to see plenty of descriptions of baldness from back then. but you don't :evil:

[Watchman]

Was There Too Much Sex And Profanity In The HBO Presidential Debate? (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/was_there_too_much_sex_and)

[Aemilius Paulus]

Every damn television show nowadays has sex sex sex, so I am not surprised.
Really? I thought that was forbidden and only HBO had it? Then again, I never watched TV in my life as long as I remember and save for a few rare fragments once in a month or so. Books and of course, my PC, are the substitutes.

[Maion Maroneios]

I have to go with Aimilios here. I don't watch much TV either, though from wat I glimpse occasionally they all invlolve slutty (in terms of appearance) actresses and random sexual-oriented scenes.

Maion

[HunGeneral]

I don't watch much TV either, though from wat I glimpse occasionally they all invlolve slutty (in terms of appearance) actresses and random sexual-oriented scenes.

Agreed - many tv shows are like that. Although there are some "less-sex oriented" ones, but I can't remember any right now...:dizzy2:

Having been on university for the last months and being home less then 36 hours every week I also lost interrest in TV - news most often just get me mad which I don't need and there are few things worth watching... its either that or EB so it's no hard choice:laugh4:

Back to topic: I don't know for sure but maybe some Romans shaved there heads when it started to become gray (a sign of aging which might make them look weak). - I'm not sure however.:sweatdrop:

[Aemilius Paulus]

Has anyone else read about the link between helmets and balding, or am I the only one here who dug that up somewhere in the depths of the libraries??

[antisocialmunky]

I've heard of that but not all patricians were soldiers :-\

[Cute Wolf]

Well, I did use helmet everyday when I ride my motorcycle... and I can assure you that for some days, I spent many times wearing helmet... and look on my photo.. I'm not bald....

It wasn't helmet anyway, maybe genetics?

[satalexton]

bah, bike helmets are for sissies, I wear a phrygian helm when on bikes.

[Cute Wolf]

bah, bike helmets are for sissies, I wear a phrygian helm when on bikes.

The police won't allow me to use Corinthian helmet on the street... :furious:

[Jebivjetar]

:balloon2:

It should be 'Fortune Favors the Bald' but L0L.


Well, through literature you have many versions of the same ideas. In this one ive taken one Ovid verse "The gods favor the bold" :yes:

Thanx for balloon :2thumbsup:

[Maion Maroneios]

The police won't allow me to use Corinthian helmet on the street... :furious:
Really? I found a cool one for 220 Euros in a shop down in Crete, and I'm tempted to buy it.

Maion

[Cute Wolf]

Really? I found a cool one for 220 Euros in a shop down in Crete, and I'm tempted to buy it.

Maion

well, show me you ridin your motorbike on the street with this helmet...

:laugh4:
Cute Wolf

[Maion Maroneios]

well, show me you ridin your motorbike on the street with this helmet...

:laugh4:
Cute Wolf
I might even do that sometime when I do buy it!

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

I have to go with Aimilios here. I don't watch much TV either, though from wat I glimpse occasionally they all invlolve slutty (in terms of appearance) actresses and random sexual-oriented scenes.

Maion

So? Sex is great. So are the slutty actresses. I'd pay a good 8 bucks to see Jessica Alba's boobs on the big screen.

As much as I hate historically inaccuracy in movies based on true tales, (i walked out on troy, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THE BRIDGE IN THE BATTLE OF STIRLING BRIDGE IN BRAVEHEART? Mel Gibson's answer? It got in the way... my rebuttal? THATS THE POINT!) I like seeing characters getting it on. So what? Life is driven by sex. thats the fact of life. You are put on this earth to procreate. Some people deny this (Aemilius Paulus?) but its the cold hard facts. Eat, Sh@t, procreate, repeat.

And who doesn't like sex? If you have a problem with the most natural thing in the world then you need to start maturing, and understanding how the circle of life works.


Also, Aemilius Paulus, about helmets making you bald. I remember reading somewhere about it, the article wasn't about ancient warfare, but about wearing just regular crash helmets for extended periods of time. So if crash helmets can damage your hair from extended use, I can imagine a metal helmet, even with padding doing the same thing. Think about it, greasy roman hair, plus rough leather interior of a helmet? thats bound to equate to one shiny head.

[Maion Maroneios]

I didn't say isn't great. And I'd give more to see Jessica's boobs man. I just get sick of the fact our culture is becoming so obsessed with sex.

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

Becoming?

What do you think all the madness about Marlyn Monroe was? 'Cause she brewed good coffee? :idea2:
Or maybe it was because those legs went up to heaven. :smile:

Like it or not, obsession with sex is here to stay. Its just the world is sick and tired of being subtle about it. The world is letting loose. Don't worry about it too much, by 2012 our culture will change. into something new... hopefully its drastically different and not just on the same course we're headed already. (maybe we'll be lucky enough to under go a purging process where 80% of the population dies! The one and only solution to world hunger...)

[Maion Maroneios]

OK mate, becoming more and more obsessed with sex. It has always been part of our lives, we're humans beings after all. We want it and we need it. But I believe you're smart enough to know what I'm talking about.

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

I still don't think theres a real rise in obsession about it. I think its just because with the way acceptance... no... tolerance is going these days, the obsession is becoming less and less subtle. However I can guarantee you people are a helluva lot looser, with the parlance of our times.

[Skullheadhq]

First we were talking about bald Romaioi, and now sex on TV??
Quite off-topic here.
It's true, you can't watch one minute to the telly without being confronted by sexual-oriented programs.
But then the bald Romaioi didn't have any telly, but they did have Hetairai:yes:

https://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6834/backtotopic.jpg

[Celtic_Punk]

None of you have considered this...

Maybe it was a style... Maybe like grey hair on a man today is seen as distinguishing, and seemingly wise...


I'll tell ya one thing. Using oil like they did in the bathes CANNOT be that good for your hair.

[mountaingoat]

cannot we consider that this was some kind of sterotype adopted by hollywood .. as they pretty much do this with everything, and then it is almost "fact" to people.


lol , and (fresh)olive oil is great for you .. as are pretty much most oils . with the exception of a few.

[Macilrille]

It could be explained quite easily by the fact that wearing a helmet for so much time in your life tends to cause that. Sure, there is padding, but from what I read, many knights in the Medieval times had shiny heads due to the hair being rubbed out by the helmet... Same could happen to the Romans. At the same time, the generals and senior officers had to wear helmets less than the soldiers, I would suppose, but still...

Most patricians would start in the army off higher or at least at the level of a centurion/primus pilus, correct? I do not recollect Roman nobility starting out as that or any lower. At the same time, even the chief commanders of armies would often fight alongside soldiers, and someone such as a legate was certainly expected to fight to hearten the men.

I wonder how accurate that would be?

Patricians would never demean themselves to serve as Centurion, not even if Primus Pilum. AFAICR Patricians served as Military Tribunes or Questors, Centurions were Plebs, most likely from the 2nd and 3rd property class and the Primus Pilum was the most distinguished Centurion. He would often end up in the Equestrian Class from his service, but Patrician he was not!

[Macilrille]

But from HBO's ROME serial... I can conclude that most of the Patricians of Roma... they are just portayed as coitus-maniacs... and higher stance of testosterone in real condition often lead into baldness of hair...:yes:

HBO's Rome is great historical propagation, but a source it is not!

I know you are kidding, but some people do not.

[Macilrille]

It did? I heard there was a possibility of the 3rd season, but it was dim. Is that true? In any case, HBO Rome would have been significantly better if they did not insert sex in every scene. And the varieties of sexual intercourse... Incest, sadomasochistic, old people, gay, lesbian, royal, rape, etc, the list goes on to a length that any other pornographic masterpiece itself would envy...

Not cool. But it probably explains why it was so popular amongst the common people :thumbsdown:. Who cares about Ancient Rome? They just want some excuse to watch porn so that their wife will not beat them.

EDIT: I heard the Tudors series was even more graphic in the sexual sense. Is that true? Is that possible? I thought the mainstream TV productions has to have no more than the US "R" rating.


Easy AP, chill a bit, I like you, but you come across a bit prudish when you talk Rome/sex.
HBO's Rome has no more sex content than my life or the average person's thoughts, and definately not in every scene. Much of Humanity sort of pays sex a lot of attention- which is probably just as well or the Human race would die out.

This is not supposed to be a discussion about sex, but about baldness, suffice it to say that IMO HBO's Rome is not porn as you will see if you watch the real stuff for comparison, and sexual drive is a large part of humanity. Such is life, literally such is life or we will die out.

Now back On Topic about baldness, I get a lot too, but I expect that it is no more than random coincidence.

[Watchman]

Patricians would never demean themselves to serve as Centurion, not even if Primus Pilum. AFAICR Patricians served as Military Tribunes or Questors, Centurions were Plebs, most likely from the 2nd and 3rd property class and the Primus Pilum was the most distinguished Centurion. He would often end up in the Equestrian Class from his service, but Patrician he was not!Didn't a lot of Equestrians enter the military at Centurion level, though ? It should be recalled it was both a very prestigious, and reasonably senior, rank roughly equivalent to lower-to-middle end modern commissioned officers after all...

[Macilrille]

Really? I found a cool one for 220 Euros in a shop down in Crete, and I'm tempted to buy it.

Maion

Maion, it is probably not good stuff. IE will not withstand any sort of trauma, ie be useless in combat.

[Macilrille]

Didn't a lot of Equestrians enter the military at Centurion level, though ? It should be recalled it was both a very prestigious, and reasonably senior, rank roughly equivalent to lower-to-middle end modern commissioned officers after all...

I do not remember out of hand, but I think it would depend on the period. Equistrians originally had that name because they served in the cavalry as we all know. Usually I would expect a Centurion to come rather from the upper middle class. 2nd and 3rd property class. But for sources I would have to do some digging, which I do not have the time for right now.

[Cute Wolf]

Maion, it is probably not good stuff. IE will not withstand any sort of trauma, ie be useless in combat.

enough for display on the motorcycle don't you... no more melee warfare today...:2thumbsup:

[Macilrille]

enough for display on the motorcycle don't you... no more melee warfare today...:2thumbsup:

As you know that is not how I see things ;-)

[Watchman]

Equistrians originally had that name because they served in the cavalry as we all know.Well, obviously. Per definition during the early militia system. But wasn't the Primus Pilum position a "post-Marian" one...?

[Macilrille]

Not as far as I know, it is in fact not Primus Pilum (First Spear), but Primus Pilus (First File). Speaking of Rome they made that mistake as well, Lucius Vorenus naming himself "First Spear Centurion" at one occasion

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

That might be because the neuter was already being confused with the masculine in everyday speak: eg. "vinus".

[Fluvius Camillus]

Atia wasnt bald in HBO Rome... down below...:clown: (yes that was OT:2thumbsup:)

"insterting huge pro-Rome rally here soon":skull:

~Fluvius

[Megas Methuselah]

Atia wasnt bald in HBO Rome... down below...:clown: (yes that was OT:2thumbsup:)


Haha.