Makedonian Schutzstaffel

[Mithradates I]

Recently, I attacked 10 Makedonian troops (I spied the unti before attacking) with an army of over a hundred (the Makedonians were annoying me, were in the way, and there was a war on). Unfortunately for me, not actually wanting to fight it out, I made the epic mistake of auto-resolving it. Result: not one Makedonian casualty, total loss for me. I attacked again-this time, yes, I played it out- to discover that those 10 were Hellinic Companion Guard Cav (?) with a Mak FM.

I just am asking to hear of like auto-resolve horror stories. Very needless to say, I will never- read NEVER- again choose to auto-resolve. :furious3:

[DaciaJC]

Makedonian SS?

I make it a point to never auto-resolve unless it is a completely one-sided battle against brigands which I am sure to win. And in those cases, I use auto_win instead. Everything else is manually fought.

[Cute Wolf]

bet u are attackin 10 stars Mak FM with an army led by captain.... without auto_win, the captain will be surely lost...

[Prussian to the Iron]

so, where did the SS come into this?

anyway,

how many men did you have? i mean, sheer manpower will overcome cavalry.

[NickTheGreek]

I think it was a reference to the eliteness of the makedonian troops.

[Maion Maroneios]

Autoresolving seems to favour the AI, especially when it comes to naval battles. I haven't got any real blunders, as usually I'm careful when it comes to planing my movements. Sometimes my finger accidentally presses the Autocalc option, but then I usually re-load if the situation is dire and I believe I could easily win.

As for that unpronouncable word, I guess the guy's from Germany (or Austria) and the work is German.

Maion

[Prussian to the Iron]

I think it was a reference to the eliteness of the makedonian troops.
which is to say that he means that the SS is elite? i find that offensive.

[Cute Wolf]

which is to say that he means that the SS is elite? i find that offensive.

I think he only comprises the eliteness... not to mention anything behind...

[Fluvius Camillus]

https://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt22/Fluvius_Camillus/autoresolveisechtgoed.jpg

This...

~Fluvius

Edit: of course I reloaded...

[Reality=Chaos]

which is to say that he means that the SS is elite? i find that offensive.

Why? they were elites....

Maybe not elites you might want to emulate, but elites nonetheless...

[Tarkus]

which is to say that he means that the SS is elite? i find that offensive.

Come on -- enough already! YES, the SS were elite troops in the same way that the Companions and the Sacred Band were elite troops...period.

Mithridates: Never autoresolve. Even if you get tired of those little annoying battles with Eleutheroi or the like, never autoresolve. Consider those little battles as tactical practice.

Good luck!

[Macilrille]

which is to say that he means that the SS is elite? i find that offensive.

This is not the place, but you can find it offensive all you want; the senior Waffen SS Divisions were elite indeed. Added to a normal elite unit's training and elan you had the sinister political ideology making them even more effective and motivated, but also so much more nasty. One cannot deny the elite-ness of the Waffen SS if one is objective, but one cannot also deny their sinister nature. Personally I hope the world will never see their like again.

[A Very Super Market]

auto_win attacker (Or defender) if you feel like auto-resolving a battle that would be "impossible" to win or lose.

[ARCHIPPOS]

how does autoresolve work anyway??? there must be some kind of formula/mathematic model calculating stats/bonuses/army strength, right???

[Fluvius Camillus]

how does autoresolve work anyway??? there must be some kind of formula/mathematic model calculating stats/bonuses/army strength, right???

Autoresolve win chance % = a1
Type of player (human(=0) or AI(=1)) = t
Amount of troops = s
Enemy troops = e

So:

a1 = t . s - e

In as human practice (the only other variant is AI vs AI, where t=1):

a1 = 0 . 2200 - 10

Makes:

a1 = 0

So the chance that you win = 0%

In easier terms...
http://sciencenotes.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/u-fail.jpg

Hope that helps, if the enemy has more troops than you, the % will end up negative, but I dont really think we have to get started about autoresolve achieving heroic victories....

~Fluvius

[ARCHIPPOS]

Autoresolve win chance % = a1
Type of player (human(=0) or AI(=1)) = t
Amount of troops = s
Enemy troops = e

So:

a1 = t . s - e

In practice:

a1 = 0 . 2200 - 10

Makes:

a1 = 0

So the chance that you win = 0%

Hope that helps, if the enemy has more troops than you, the % will end up negative, but I dont really think we have to get started about autoresolve achieving heroic victories....

~Fluvius

You're kidding right??? you're saying that basicaly there is no chance that you'll win by autoresolving... ever...

[A Very Super Market]

:laugh4:

You guys...

Auto-resolve is just unreliable, not impossible.

[Ca Putt]

I've got the feeling that autoresolve is only Dependant on the generals stars and totally neglects the numbers tossed in. In an old campaign I had a general with a lot of nasty traits tho he had 1 star. he had a small contingent of mercenaries(500 men on huge) and ambushed a Roman captain with a 2000 men army of not really less quality, I did not like him so I auto resolved. he won! and after some more battles I had a 6 star general who could extract 300% out of a raided city, got huge discount on everything and had a massive Happiness boost.
Auto resolve is suicide in most cases but if you've got a FM with at least one star in charge and the AI only has a captain It might(ok it takes some luck) turn out ok.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

Anyway, attacking FM guards with about 100 soldiers is MADNESS, unless you are from SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA XD XD XD

It depends on which soldiers we're talking about. If they are uber-elite, maybe you can win. Otherwise...

[Xurr]

which is to say that he means that the SS is elite? i find that offensive.

See here is the thing, he was basically cursing at those units by calling them SS.. as in "damn Makedonian Schutzstaffel killing my army...." Personally I think people are way to quick or don't even bother to think before they jump to conclusions and claim to be offended.

[Fluvius Camillus]

:laugh4:

You guys...

Auto-resolve is just unreliable, not impossible.

The math was just a lame joke..:clown:

I hate it, it cant even do the simplest battle tasks without losing tons of men...:thumbsdown:

M2TW autoresolve on the other hand.... Saves me some time doing boring repititive sieges!:2thumbsup:

~Fluvius

[Mithradates I]

I think he only comprises the eliteness... not to mention anything behind...

Yes, this is exactly correct! Never in a million years did I imagine that my OP would offend anyone.!? This is a wargame, yes? An historical-based wargame, yes? My default expectation was that anyone playing an historically-based wargame (and especially one of this calibre) would understand that the reference to the Schutzstaffel was to their elite status. History is history, OK? I see no need at all to apologize for this. In particular not to anyone with the cheek to use Prussian_Iron as a screen name and yet not understand a simple reference.

I learned a lesson. The troops I attacked with were the suggested Polybian Romani legion makeup, somewhat diminished due to their recent fights, but still respectable. It was one of my better armies on that front, and I could ill-afford the loss. Still, in my ignorance as to game mechanics, I was awestruck by the result, and the first thing that popped into my head was... well, anyway.

I will in future make an attempt not to offend the tender egos around around here. :skull:

[athanaric]

Yes, this is exactly correct! Never in a million years did I imagine that my OP would offend anyone.!? This is a wargame, yes? An historical-based wargame, yes? My default expectation was that anyone playing an historically-based wargame (and especially one of this calibre) would understand that the reference to the Schutzstaffel was to their elite status. History is history, OK? I see no need at all to apologize for this. In particular not to anyone with the cheek to use Prussian_Iron as a screen name and yet not understand a simple reference.

I learned a lesson. The troops I attacked with were the suggested Polybian Romani legion makeup, somewhat diminished due to their recent fights, but still respectable. It was one of my better armies on that front, and I could ill-afford the loss. Still, in my ignorance as to game mechanics, I was awestruck by the result, and the first thing that popped into my head was... well, anyway.

I will in future make an attempt not to offend the tender egos around around here. :skull:

Yeah, autoresolve gives you pretty ridiculous results when the enemy general has some command stars. It is ideally only used for spontaneous, FM-only "armies" who hunt for small Eleutheroi bands.

By the way, history doesn't give a fart if anyone finds it offensive.

[Mithradates I]

Yeah, autoresolve gives you pretty ridiculous results when the enemy general has some command stars. It is ideally only used for spontaneous, FM-only "armies" who hunt for small Eleutheroi bands.

By the way, history doesn't give a fart if anyone finds it offensive.

Right, thanks. And you stay busy with all of those ongoing campaigns, heh?:yes:

[Subotan]

This is not the place, but you can find it offensive all you want; the senior Waffen SS Divisions were elite indeed. Added to a normal elite unit's training and elan you had the sinister political ideology making them even more effective and motivated, but also so much more nasty. One cannot deny the elite-ness of the Waffen SS if one is objective, but one cannot also deny their sinister nature. Personally I hope the world will never see their like again.

THIS

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I only ever auto-resolve if my advantage is more than 5:1.

[Megas Methuselah]

THIS
.

IS

[Watchman]

To a reasonably large degree nonsense, actually. The SS were above all well-motivated, but not particularly exceptionally trained for the most part; not compared to say the paras or mountain troops...

[Maion Maroneios]

.

IS
SPARTAAAAAAAA!

Maion

[Watchman]

https://img170.imageshack.us/img170/5055/notsparta.th.jpg (https://img170.imageshack.us/i/notsparta.jpg/)

[Mithradates I]

To a reasonably large degree nonsense, actually. The SS were above all well-motivated, but not particularly exceptionally trained for the most part; not compared to say the paras or mountain troops...

I would not say nonsense. While it is undeniably true that at certain times not all the W-SS met the standard of "elite", clearly. That would also be entirely beside the point. Because at other times, W-SS units were very much "elite"- just ask the Russians after Stalingrad, for example. I think the lesson that should be learned by everyone here today is to keep your dainty little powder-puff sensibilities in check until you know for sure that there is a valid reason to be "offended". :oops:

[Watchman]

The SS was actually "elite" more in the social/political sense of the term - they were the Party's "private army" rather than regular national troops, with due pretentions. As with the regular army, the quality of the actual combat units was rather varied.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

The SS was actually "elite" more in the social/political sense of the term - they were the Party's "private army" rather than regular national troops, with due pretentions. As with the regular army, the quality of the actual combat units was rather varied.
It depends. The early SS was still a bunch of amateurs, but the divisions employed in Kursk were already considered leet to my knowledge.

[Mithradates I]

The SS was actually "elite" more in the social/political sense of the term - they were the Party's "private army" rather than regular national troops, with due pretentions. As with the regular army, the quality of the actual combat units was rather varied.

Yes, I have to agree with you here.

[Mithradates I]

It depends. The early SS was still a bunch of amateurs, but the divisions employed in Kursk were already considered leet to my knowledge.

Kursk! Oh my god....

[Mithradates I]

And as for [B]SPARTA, perhaps my favorite quote from the game is "The Spartans ask not how many, but where they are". :2thumbsup:

[Watchman]

It depends. The early SS was still a bunch of amateurs, but the divisions employed in Kursk were already considered leet to my knowledge.And those were by no means the end-all be-all of people with guns in the SS uniform. Recall that the death squad types all but worthless for combat duty and only good for terrorising civilians were mostly SS too...

Anyway, this is where the OP goes wrong. The SS were above all a sort of the Nazi Party's hatchetmen (as evidenced by the fate of the SA leadership in the Night of the Long Knives) and general "private army" to give them an armed force separate from the state authorities. It just later ballooned into a combat arm (of quite heterogenous quality) parallel to the Wehrmacht, which obviously was quite nonsensical resource-wise.

Conversely the Hellenistic Hetairoi, nevermind the Agema types that form the royal bodyguard squadron, were pretty much per definition very high-quality cavalry of the states' "regular army" (inasmuch the term is applicable in the context) - and quasi-feudal while at that...

[Mithradates I]

And those were by no means the end-all be-all of people with guns in the SS uniform. Recall that the death squad types all but worthless for combat duty and only good for terrorising civilians were mostly SS too...

Anyway, this is where the OP goes wrong. The SS were above all a sort of the Nazi Party's hatchetmen (as evidenced by the fate of the SA leadership in the Night of the Long Knives) and general "private army" to give them an armed force separate from the state authorities. It just later ballooned into a combat arm (of quite heterogenous quality) parallel to the Wehrmacht, which obviously was quite nonsensical resource-wise.

Conversely the Hellenistic Hetairoi, nevermind the Agema types that form the royal bodyguard squadron, were pretty much per definition very high-quality cavalry of the states' "regular army" (inasmuch the term is applicable in the context) - and quasi-feudal while at that...

The OP was not wrong at all. I recently read accounts of actions fought by the W-SS against the Russians. I, nor should I say, anybody here, actually knows nothing more than legend about the 'elite' status of ancient units. The Second World War is much closer to me in time, and therefore of greater impact. All succeeding posts have 'gone wrong' in incorrectly attaching the social connotations of the general SS to my post. Which was clearly not at all my intent, and is what actually constitutes nonsense, actually.

[satalexton]

https://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt22/Fluvius_Camillus/autoresolveisechtgoed.jpg



Beautiful, just beautiful. ALL HAIL MAKEDONIA!!!!

[Alsatia]

Beautiful, just beautiful. ALL HAIL MAKEDONIA!!!!

.....

What is it with these macedonian fanatics???
Why cannot you be quiet about Macedonia??
Quare nequeo graeci consum amicus ut romani?

Rome has Pella, the "great city" of Macedonia, the bithplace of "Megas" Alexandros, and (Rome) is probably gonna push Macedonia into Galatia or into oblivion (prefer the latter). then again, macedonians may keep the romans at bay by blocking them off the peleponnese or halfway down attica

[teh1337tim]

.....

What is it with these macedonian fanatics???
Why cannot you be quiet about Macedonia??
Quare nequeo graeci consum amicus ut romani?

Rome has Pella, the "great city" of Macedonia, the bithplace of "Megas" Alexandros, and (Rome) is probably gonna push Macedonia into Galatia or into oblivion (prefer the latter). then again, macedonians may keep the romans at bay by blocking them off the peleponnese or halfway down attica

maybe i should take up the campaign as the macedonians.....
Macedonian fanatics? :D I just like killing romans.............................
and I'm probably going to sack roma in 4 turns with Alexandros Argeades and enslave those dirty barbaroi from barbaroipolis

anyways to OP..

dont ever auto calc battles with a captain against a FM... you will loose nearly every time

[TruePraetorian]

.....

What is it with these macedonian fanatics???
Why cannot you be quiet about Macedonia??
Quare nequeo graeci consum amicus ut romani?

Rome has Pella, the "great city" of Macedonia, the bithplace of "Megas" Alexandros, and (Rome) is probably gonna push Macedonia into Galatia or into oblivion (prefer the latter). then again, macedonians may keep the romans at bay by blocking them off the peleponnese or halfway down attica


Don't worry about them. They all live in the Pysch Ward in Westville MA. At regular intervals they are allowed to go online for things. Most of them are delusional, sadly, and claim to be from Macedon or Greece.

It's a sad case of the psychosis Makedoniaisgreatia. It comes about when the defense mechanisms of regression and fantasy are abused, along with countless hours of being utterly beaten by Romans in EB (although they do not actually play due to their delusions.)

Often you will hear of these poor souls who wander in their never-never land wishing that Makedonia could stand up to Roma, even in a video game. But, unfortunately it is impossible for such an occurence. Perhaps one day there will be a cure :no:..

But then again who needs a cure when curing them would only cause them to see the harsh reality.
Truely they must be better off in their imaginary Hellenic world. (Notice how most of them Roleplay..again these are simple delusions in which they actually believe they are in the game..)


:smug:

[antisocialmunky]

https://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1203/makrome.png

[Alsatia]

Don't worry about them. They all live in the Pysch Ward in Westville MA. At regular intervals they are allowed to go online for things. Most of them are delusional, sadly, and claim to be from Macedon or Greece.

It's a sad case of the psychosis Makedoniaisgreatia. It comes about when the defense mechanisms of regression and fantasy are abused, along with countless hours of being utterly beaten by Romans in EB (although they do not actually play due to their delusions.)

Often you will hear of these poor souls who wander in their never-never land wishing that Makedonia could stand up to Roma, even in a video game. But, unfortunately it is impossible for such an occurence. Perhaps one day there will be a cure :no:..

But then again who needs a cure when curing them would only cause them to see the harsh reality.
Truely they must be better off in their imaginary Hellenic world. (Notice how most of them Roleplay..again these are simple delusions in which they actually believe they are in the game..)


:smug:

If the RP according to history, they'd have to play out a swift decline..

btw, antisocialmunky, put that picture in the demotivators thread.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

And those were by no means the end-all be-all of people with guns in the SS uniform. Recall that the death squad types all but worthless for combat duty and only good for terrorising civilians were mostly SS too...

Anyway, this is where the OP goes wrong. The SS were above all a sort of the Nazi Party's hatchetmen (as evidenced by the fate of the SA leadership in the Night of the Long Knives) and general "private army" to give them an armed force separate from the state authorities. It just later ballooned into a combat arm (of quite heterogenous quality) parallel to the Wehrmacht, which obviously was quite nonsensical resource-wise.

Conversely the Hellenistic Hetairoi, nevermind the Agema types that form the royal bodyguard squadron, were pretty much per definition very high-quality cavalry of the states' "regular army" (inasmuch the term is applicable in the context) - and quasi-feudal while at that...

SS divisions in late war were effectively elite, their training was harder than wehrmacht one. This is also because Wehrmacht's standard decreased during the war thanks to Ostfront's attriction.

SS "death squads" were the Einsatzgruppen, that were NOT combat units. The majority of the SS divisions were elites, with better equipment, better training, and in some case more soldiers and more tanks.

[Macilrille]

True enough, the Einsatztruppen did not have much to do with the Waffen SS proper, though there was some connections between the Waffen SS and the Totenkopfsverbande (KZ Camp Guards), and not just the 3rd "Totenkopf" Division.


This is not the place, but I cannot abide historical inaccuracy.

1. The Waffen SS was originally the private army of the party indeed, Hitler's bodyguards and a lever against the SA and potentially WH (Wehrmacht Heer), the admittance criteria was originally very strict in all senses, physically, intelligence-wise (though sometimes one would not believe it and Sepp Dietrich was an idiot) and politically. When it was actually decided to make it a combat organisation veteran officers like Paul Hausser and Felix Steiner devised a rigourus (sp?) training surpassing that of the WH, 75% failed this training.

2. In the Polish Campaign and partly Fall Gelb the SS distinguished themselves by extreme aggressiveness and elan, somewhat below tactical ability, very high losses and the atrocities that was to mar the organisation forever. The below tactical ability and high losses can likely be attributed to the lack of experienced NCOs. The Reichswehr 100.000-man army had been expanded so quick that there was a general lack of that and those that were had by and large chosen not to join the SS Further the Army had first pick in the draft, actually drafting a lot of members of the Allgemeine SS (the political organisation). But the divisions participating was considered elite, and after their baptism of fire (LSSAH and verfügungstruppen in Poland, Totenkopf in the Benelux and France) as their tactical ability rose, they became so indeed. The LSSAH very much distinguished themselves in the Balcans for example, and with the two others continued to do so to almost the end of the war (in and after the Ardennes even the senior divisions started showing lower combat performance due to lack of replacements, Sepp Dietrich bragged in late 1944 that of the 21.700 men he had commanded at the eve of Barbarossa only 60 were still alive, uncaptured and uncrippled- a tribute to his idiocy really). Anyone in doubt about the elite-ness of the Waffen SS should read David Glantz' "Battle of Kursk" where even this jaded military historian was surprised by their performance- I thought I knew Kursk and the cauldron of fire there, I did not :2thumbsup: for Glantz.

3. Factors contributing the tre elite-ness of the Senior Waffen SS Divisions:
a) Selection for them was harsh, training even more so.
b) Political motivation and indoctrination; the sinister system of the Reich made for hard soldiers and these men were brainwashed with it.
c) Equipment, as the Party's private army and elite, the senior Waffen SS Divisions recieved the very best equipment that Germany could produce. the WH Grossdeutschland Division and later Führer brigades was the same.

4. Decline of the W-SS, as the war progressed the Waffen SS was expanded heavily, especially after the recapture of Kharkov. The W-SS became also the cesspit of Europe where various "Volksdeutsche" and foreign volunteers ended up. Thus harbouring beside the elite LSSAH, Reich and Viking, crap divisions as well as outright criminals like Kaminski's and Dirlewanger's units whose performance and war crimes were so bad that even the other SS commanders hated them. this trend showed itself first even in 1940 as the 4th SS Grenadier Polizei Division was raised from policemen and the 6th was raised from a few Totenkopfsverbande Regiments and sent to Finland with almost no training- and especially no training in the special circumstances of Finland- resulting in The Rout at Salla and probably contributing to our Fin's low opinion of the SS.

5. War Crimes, no discussion about the Waffen SS is complete without the mention of their war crimes. All wars have war crimes, war always brings out the worst in some individuals and war gives them the opportunity to perform murders, pillage, rape, etc. This happens in all armies, just as the crimes of passion where fright, stress and thirst for vengeance sometimes makes even normal people react violently towards prisoners and/or civilians from the opposite sides. Discipline and training usually counters that.
However, in the Dritte Reich war crime was organised, besides the endlösung and Einsatztruppen, the actual combat- especially on the Eastern Front and in Poland against "Untermenschen"- saw atrocities organised and encouraged by the state. Omer Bartov has written extensively on the subject and is well worth a read. Nowhere was this more evident than in the Waffen SS, politically motivated as they were, they were the ultimate instruments of these atrocities. The record varied, but I suspect no division was clean, even the senior divisions. For example as LSSAH reached the Sea of Azov a patrol was captured, tortured and killed by the Soviets and Sepp Dietrich ordered all Soviet prisoners taken the next three day executed. I seem to recall the number of 4000 killed that way. Wormhout, Caen and malmedy looms high in Western minds, but nothing can compare to the evil of both sides on the Eastern Front; when totalitarian systems clash, people suffer. The worst examples of this was people like Kaminski and Dirlewanger, try googling them, my words hardly suffice.
However, many Waffen SS troops probably did not perform such, many people, even soldiers, will balk at such no matter how much you indoctrinate them. But the Eastern Front was a screw of evil getting worse and worse. much like Israel and Palestine in a way- though not the same. >>>Edited to add that everybody knew about them and as a minimum suspected the Death Camps, claiming otherwise is lying or suppression- the Human mind works in strange ways.

6. Commanders, the political nature of the WSS made some people commanders that should not have been- even of senior divisions, people like Eicke and Dietrich should never have commanded more than a battalion IMO, while people like Steiner, Hausser, Bittrich, Meyer and Hausser performed well.


To sum up, the senior SS Divisions were indeed elite, from various factors, but their combat performance alone marks them so (an American study right after the war showed the average unit at 10- 15 % under effective combat command, elite US units at 15- 20 % and estimated the Waffen SS at 30- 50%). However, many very bad units also served in the SS and the sinister side of being permeated by National Socialism mars them forever.

Also, do not forget, winners write history, and some democrats have a hard time admitting a political army of such a system as being elite, but contribute their success to better equipment only. I encourage objectivity.

I intended to do a list of divisions and their performance, but I notice that Wiki has one, so have a look there, for I am too lazy. Feldgrau probably also have a very good one. You can also look for sources there, I wrote from memory of books I read.

[Subotan]

@ Macilrille :balloon2:

[Mikhail Mengsk]

@ Macilrille :balloon2:


Another one from me:balloon2: i read Glantz too, i think it's the best for the Eastern Front, togather with Beevor :2thumbsup:

[Reality=Chaos]

@ Macilrille :2thumbsup::2thumbsup: have a :balloon2:

[lenin96]

Have another balloon Macilrille. :balloon2:

[Macilrille]

Thanks for the balloons:2thumbsup:. I wonder what I did though except clarify a few things from memory. I have written better and more informative posts on Res Publica Romana and on Viking fighting :inquisitive:

But nonetheless thanks. Now... time to get back on Topic before this turns into a discussion on the Waffen SS?

Makedonian/Hellene Ûbermensche; I just tried VH/M autoresolve taking Epidamnos from 341 Epeirotes (Elite Phalanx and Classical Hoplites) with Roman FM, Pedites Extraordinari, 2 Principes, 2 Hastatii, 3 Accensii, Scythian HA, Thrakian Peltastai.

Result 950+ dead and clear defeat.

I reloaded and assaulted manually...

Result, 121 dead and clear victory...

WTF is up with Auroresolve?

[antisocialmunky]

:-\ never auto resolve against a army with an FM, a city, anything with chariots or elephants, anything with alot of counters to your army composition. Autoresolve just calculates attritional rock-paper-scissors. Its generally useful against those tiny rebel stacks though, but I've seen 5 hippies get taken down by 3 militia hoplites and other stupid stuff.

[Mithradates I]

Thanks for the balloons:2thumbsup:. I wonder what I did though except clarify a few things from memory. I have written better and more informative posts on Res Publica Romana and on Viking fighting :inquisitive:

But nonetheless thanks. Now... time to get back on Topic before this turns into a discussion on the Waffen SS?

Makedonian/Hellene Ûbermensche; I just tried VH/M autoresolve taking Epidamnos from 341 Epeirotes (Elite Phalanx and Classical Hoplites) with Roman FM, Pedites Extraordinari, 2 Principes, 2 Hastatii, 3 Accensii, Scythian HA, Thrakian Peltastai.

Result 950+ dead and clear defeat.

I reloaded and assaulted manually...

Result, 121 dead and clear victory...

WTF is up with Auroresolve?

Thank you for everything and more to the point, this is exactly the impetus behind the OP. I generally have no great difficulty defeating the Maks played out manually; thus my great surprise with the auto-resolve result. By the way, my army in that debacle had two Romani FM with it and was still slaughtered. So, now that I feel that thinking heads have prevailed and responded to the point, thank you. Way to treat a new member of the community.

[Mithradates I]

And if I may, Macilrille: :balloon2:

[Cute Wolf]

The SS was actually "elite" more in the social/political sense of the term - they were the Party's "private army" rather than regular national troops, with due pretentions. As with the regular army, the quality of the actual combat units was rather varied.

The very very same with "Basilikon Agema"... as they are expected to act as "royal guard" but still an elite nonetheless :thumbsdown:

[Watchman]

Except in their case they're both a social and military elite. Meaning rich. Meaning they can afford the best gear, the best instructors, have the free time to put in a *lot* of hours into combat practice - and for that matter are pretty much required to by the monarch who gave them their estates and expects to get some pretty hardcore fighters in return.

A warrior aristocracy of the grand old form, in other words.

The W-SS were just a bunch of regular soldiers with a special political connection, and came of backgrounds not one whit different from the regular rank-and-file grunts. (For the record the Gebirgsjäger *were* more selective, recruiting almost exclusively from the Alpine populations of southern Germany due to the freebie mountain acclimation included.)

[Cute Wolf]

At least in most games arround in nazi times, SS was usually added as a very very crack elite squads... that's why most of us get them as elites in game... remember the Wolfenstein... ?

[Watchman]

Wolfenstein also had Stupid Jetpack Hitler (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidJetpackHitler) with powered armour and four gatling guns, fireball-spitting vampires (IIRC), knife-throwing Nazi zombies with guns implanted in their chest cavities, and a generally cheerfully liberal (or rather dismissive) approach to historical accuracy, realism and common sense.

Not exactly what I'd consider an authoritive source.

[A Very Super Market]

The W-SS were also known to be somewhat reckless, as noted by several Allied units in Western Europe. But that's OT.

I use auto_win if the odds are clearly in my favour, or if I feel that something might go horrendously wrong for little reason. Sometimes, the computer will decide that a band of Kluddobros will defeat a unit of chariots, and facepalming results.

[KingBobertVII]

Why the hell does anybody care about the nazi ss? Thought this forum was about Rome:Total War-Europa Barbarorum, not World War II. Also, You be the Mugu, I be the Master..

[seienchin]

To a reasonably large degree nonsense, actually. The SS were above all well-motivated, but not particularly exceptionally trained for the most part; not compared to say the paras or mountain troops...
Hey someone who knows more about the SS than mere fairy tails.
They always had higher casualty rates than other units and didnt fight very clever.
The mythos of the elite fierce german SS elite has 3 roots.
First of all:
Hitler, off course, wanted them to be seen as an elite force, so german media etc. showed it that way and allies copied that believe.
Second:
In the later stages of the war, when the allies finally fought against the germans in europe the SS had nearly all of the modern german panzer equipment making their atacks far more terrifying than the atacks of the Wehrmacht. Nevertheless they failed in the battle of the bulge (II. Ardenne offensive) in any imaginable way.
And last but not least:
Esspecialy in the west the Wehrmacht will to fight any longer was really low in 1945 while the SS continued fighting to the end. Same in the battle of Berlin in the east. Making them a symbol of fierce german defensive in germany.

So in conclusion:
If the 10 makedons were overhyped units with high casualties they were like the SS... But still its a terrible thing to say.

[Macilrille]

I will not repeat myself so...

Look a up a bit for another post by me clarifying things a bit, though this should not actually be a thread on the SS, but on the weirdness of Autoresolve.

In fact, never Autoresolve.

A related problem is the reinforcements that come pouring in with no sense, sacrificing themselves even more idiotically than the AI against you when you manually fight a battle where the reinforcement army has a FM. Even if you click that you do not want the AI to control it. I find that severely frustrating and it sometimes makes me WD from battles. Anyone else tried that?

[Watchman]

Incidentally, didn't campaign difficulty level affect autoresolve...? Not that you should use it anyway, since it's wont to inflict quite a bit of unnecessary casualties on your army.

Anyway, the issue with reinforcements is AFAIK fairly well known. For example, if you've already turned off the AI control of the reinforcement army and then view the enemy army, AI control will be turned back on yet the tick doesn't show. Just to make sure I for one always turning on and off several times before starting the battle to ensure the dumb engine got the message...
Hasn't failed thus far. :yes:

[Jebivjetar]

Rome shall burn, my brothers
And the sun will shine like a flower of freedom!

http://z.about.com/d/ancienthistory/1/0/3/P/HannibalRhoneElephants.jpg

[Jebivjetar]

.....

What is it with these macedonian fanatics???
Why cannot you be quiet about Macedonia??
Quare nequeo graeci consum amicus ut romani?

Rome has Pella, the "great city" of Macedonia, the bithplace of "Megas" Alexandros, and (Rome) is probably gonna push Macedonia into Galatia or into oblivion (prefer the latter). then again, macedonians may keep the romans at bay by blocking them off the peleponnese or halfway down attica

I guess you sir dont want to see a picture of my ongoing Epeirote campaign! :laugh4:

[Macilrille]

And I suggest you read my comment to sata elsewhere. It goes for you as well.

Edited to add the link https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2284196#post2284196

[Jebivjetar]

Good job! :2thumbsup:
One day you can write a book about us :beam::yes:

[Cute Wolf]

Jebivatar!!! DONT POST PICS NEEDLESSLY!!!:furious3:

You ruin my fragile (and low bandwith) connection!!!!:furious3:

BTW... nice pics :thumbsup:

[bovi]

https://img136.imageshack.us/img136/563/threaddivertedvt9.jpg

On topic guys.

[Macilrille]

Incidentally, didn't campaign difficulty level affect autoresolve...? Not that you should use it anyway, since it's wont to inflict quite a bit of unnecessary casualties on your army.

Anyway, the issue with reinforcements is AFAIK fairly well known. For example, if you've already turned off the AI control of the reinforcement army and then view the enemy army, AI control will be turned back on yet the tick doesn't show. Just to make sure I for one always turning on and off several times before starting the battle to ensure the dumb engine got the message...
Hasn't failed thus far. :yes:

Yes back on topic, it has not? It often does me even if I do not view the enemy :wall:

[Macilrille]

Good job! :2thumbsup:
One day you can write a book about us :beam::yes:

I do not think people who spend their time being a nuisance to others are worth my time, nor is writing a book about them- even if it was interesting.

Welcome to the Ignore list, spammer.

[DaciaJC]

Incidentally, didn't campaign difficulty level affect autoresolve...? Not that you should use it anyway, since it's wont to inflict quite a bit of unnecessary casualties on your army.

Anyway, the issue with reinforcements is AFAIK fairly well known. For example, if you've already turned off the AI control of the reinforcement army and then view the enemy army, AI control will be turned back on yet the tick doesn't show. Just to make sure I for one always turning on and off several times before starting the battle to ensure the dumb engine got the message...
Hasn't failed thus far. :yes:

To go along with the topic of reinforcements: sometimes the human player will receive the message "Reinforcements delayed", and said reinforcements only come once enough men on the battlefield have been slaughtered. This can be remedied by going to EB/preferences and setting UNLIMITED_MEN_ON_BATTLEFIELD to TRUE.

One more tidbit: apparently one can manipulate the engine to obtain control of two separate armies (field army and the reinforcing army) if each army has a general in command. See here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1005619&postcount=30) for details.

[Subotan]

Two things I've noticed about Auto-Resolve.
1. ALWAYS Auto Resolve if you are assaulting a city with a large army and there is a very small garrison inside, as the engine does not take towers into account when you assault, which will cause the most damage to your units. I don't consider this an exploit seeing as how could a garrison of six men possibly inflict 40 casualties on an army of over 1,000? :furious3:
2. Mercenaries generally tend to fare worse in autoresolve than normal troops.

[DaciaJC]

I don't consider this an exploit seeing as how could a garrison of six men possibly inflict 40 casualties on an army of over 1,000? :furious3:


With numbers like that arrayed against you (taking the position of the six men), you don't really need to aim your bow/sling/javelin (assuming that you're fighting with these missile weapons). Loose those shafts quickty-quick and you're bound to hit people in that teeming mass below you.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Although I'm not offended, and in many cases agree that some SS units were elite, you have to look at all the facts.

Some of the earlier SS divisions like 1.SS, 2.SS, 3.SS, and 5.SS were among the elite forces WHEN given the fact they had the best equipment of the entire German armed forces.

The other side of the spectrum shows some horrible battle records including at times the 4.SS, 8.SS, 9.SS etc.

True their fanatac nature made them better "warriors", but you have to remember many of the SS were foreign volunteers who just wanted to fight the Communist threat. They were not the type of radical SS material usually seen in Germany because they had no option of the Wehrmacht or SS - it was simply the SS. In this case they excelled too (5.SS, 11.SS), but there were many failing units.

When equipped well (like the Wehrmacht division Grossdeutschland) you will see it had more to do with equippment than anything else. Grossdeutschland had one of the best battle records in the German military.

Sorry, I know that is off topic and not what the thread is about at all...

Good luck on your campaign. :2thumbsup:

[Mithradates I]

Although I'm not offended, and in many cases agree that some SS units were elite, you have to look at all the facts.

Some of the earlier SS divisions like 1.SS, 2.SS, 3.SS, and 5.SS were among the elite forces WHEN given the fact they had the best equipment of the entire German armed forces.

The other side of the spectrum shows some horrible battle records including at times the 4.SS, 8.SS, 9.SS etc.

True their fanatac nature made them better "warriors", but you have to remember many of the SS were foreign volunteers who just wanted to fight the Communist threat. They were not the type of radical SS material usually seen in Germany because they had no option of the Wehrmacht or SS - it was simply the SS. In this case they excelled too (5.SS, 11.SS), but there were many failing units.

When equipped well (like the Wehrmacht division Grossdeutschland) you will see it had more to do with equippment than anything else. Grossdeutschland had one of the best battle records in the German military.

Sorry, I know that is off topic and not what the thread is about at all...

Good luck on your campaign. :2thumbsup:

Thanks! :2thumbsup:

[Jebivjetar]

I do not think people who spend their time being a nuisance to others are worth my time, nor is writing a book about them- even if it was interesting.

Welcome to the Ignore list, spammer.

Oh, thanks. I appreciate the time you've spend just on me :beam:

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I'm just going to close this one.
It is off topic and I cannot see it getting back on topic.