bang for your buck

[m046720]

What are some of the best bang for your buck units out there? i like to use flanking tactics and unit hiding, and with larger armies it is harder to hold the line while i am manuevering my flanking units without having the overall cost of my army sky-rocketing.

I guess i am looking for all kinds of "bang for buck" units also. not just troops of the line so to speak.

[ARCHIPPOS]

What are some of the best bang for your buck units out there? i like to use flanking tactics and unit hiding, and with larger armies it is harder to hold the line while i am manuevering my flanking units without having the overall cost of my army sky-rocketing.

I guess i am looking for all kinds of "bang for buck" units also. not just troops of the line so to speak.

which faction are you playing for???

[DaciaJC]

Generally AP units will dish out a great deal of hurt, especially when attacking the flanks or rear. Axemen, falxmen (Getic Drapanai and mercenary Druhtiz Bastarnisku), Traikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi, and units with AP swords (falcata/kopis), like Pedites Extraordinarii and many Iberian units.

[satalexton]

actually AP units are not the best 'bang for the buck' units. tho they are the economical choice when you cant afford real armour to go toe to toe with armoured enemies. Otherwise, compared to non-AP units of similar price/etc, they are not as good.

[Skoran]

What is actually the best unit in the game? Dont look at the price or upkeep.

I mean: Who has highest attack, who has highest defence? Who has highest attack/defence ratio?

[option]

Hypaspists would be my first notion for that. It seems like no matter how thick the fighting is or whether they're surrounded or isolated or anything, they never take more than a handful of casualties.

[satalexton]

TABs. But you cant really build entire armies of these guys D: Everything has it's place in EB, even the lowliest Romaioi akonkistai...

[Cute Wolf]

Actually they are not akontistai, but Velites and Leves Sax.... sadly they are "sigh" much better than our ol' akontistai at melee, even against green peltastai, velites usually still wins the day, but 120 men still had a chance to defeat 100 men...

An the bang for the buck units... I suggest you to look at Hoplitai Haploi... they are cheap, and capable to hold out Argyraspidai from the front with guard mode... just made sure you have another troops, preferably cavalry to kill off these tough guys...

[Chris1959]

Sounds boring but Roman infantry, especially Marians. They're tough will hold the line for a long time and have the flexibility to work round an opponents flanks, and as Rome you will always have the bucks for plenty of bang:laugh4:
On a scale of 10 Rome's heavy infantry are 7's sure most factions have better troops but they are elites amongst mediocre masses for the Romani it's the majority.

[antisocialmunky]

You're bascially looking for this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=119055

[Irishmafia2020]

I would argue that the Native Levy Phalanx is awesome if you are a faction that can possess them, they are a cheap 240 man phalanx unit with AP axes as their secondary weapon. Really this would be my overall choice in the "bang for the Buck" category, although they are not perfect (low armor and middling morale) they are cheap, numerous and have a very wide recruitment area. Their AP secondary weapon makes them ideal for holding walls, and they are much better than the average phalanx unit at taking walls as well.

Peltasts are cheap, have a wide recruitment area, and they can play a key role in battle in a number of ways. First, they are obviously skirmishers, but more importantly they have just enough armor and melee power with their shortsword to engage heavy units, and they can tear things up in flanking maneuvers. Also, they can be used as light assault troops in sieges. I used to hate these guys, but they are really useful, widely available, and cheap. Probably not what you are looking for, but worth consideration since they are available to every faction.

There are probably a couple of dozen good expensive units, but of those I think that Thoraktai are a solid choice for somewhat expensive armored killers. Also almost any of the Roman line units are vicious.

Ethiopian Spearmen are a great cheap unit in the Red Sea/Arabia area. I really like these guys as they are cheap, quick, and effective.

Northern Gallic Swordsmen - pretty much a standard Celtic line unit that is available as a merc throughout Europe. They make good effective mercenaries, and solid cheap troops for the Celtic factions.

The ultimate bang for the buck unit - Hellenic slingers Well, if you want to kill people, and horses for that matter, and you can't afford badasses then this is the answer. I don't like it, and nobody else does either, but everyone has spammed slingers before. I try to keep legitimately 4 units in my army, but if I am broke i might end up using garrison forces that swell the slinger total towards 1/2 stack. Ugly, but effective, Armor piercing, widely available, and the cheapest unit in the game (400 mnai for the hellenic version).

Persian Archer-Spearmen are noteworthy because they are flexible and dirt cheap. I think they are priced around 600 mnai, so they are disposable garrison troops, but you can take them on a campaign. Since they are spearmen, they can actually hold up to a cavalry charge - also when they run out of arrows they make a great reserve force to throw into melee. They are not as armored as the Peltasts, but they are otherwise similarly useful, although their specialty is defensive rather than offensive (except for all of the offensive arrows). As Baktria or Pahlava, or Saba you will probably rely on these guys to hold your cities against numerous seiges.

That's my list of "Bang for the buck" units - no expensive supermen (elephants can kill thousands, but they are very expensive) and no Romani units, since I don't know their roster, but just a bunch of cheap reliable killers that will give you your money's worth, especially since you aren't paying much for them.

[Ignopotens]

If you can get them (only available to Getai, Sweboz, and Saromatae), Dacian Komatai are cheaper and more effective than Greek skirmishers

[Rilder]

If you can get them (only available to Getai, Sweboz, and Saromatae), Dacian Komatai are cheaper and more effective than Greek skirmishers

Komatai are awesome light infantry no doubt, though I wouldn't group them with akontistai, since Komatai are really a form of line infrantry and Akontistai are skirmishers through and through.

Also basically any form of infantry with javelins has a good bang for the buck.

[Watchman]

"Light infantry" usually covers everything from archers and slinger to open-order lightly equipped shock troops intented for combat in rough terrain, you know... Anyways, strictly speaking the Komatai are skirmishers, and "levy/militia" grade at that. Being ornery and warlike barbarians they just get enough special stat bonuses, and carry good enough war gear, to be actually effective close combatants if necessary.

Getic "line" infantry would actually be the Stratiotai and maybe Kostobokoi...

[Rilder]

"Light infantry" usually covers everything from archers and slinger to open-order lightly equipped shock troops intented for combat in rough terrain, you know... Anyways, strictly speaking the Komatai are skirmishers, and "levy/militia" grade at that. Being ornery and warlike barbarians they just get enough special stat bonuses, and carry good enough war gear, to be actually effective close combatants if necessary.

Getic "line" infantry would actually be the Stratiotai and maybe Kostobokoi...



The Komatai, also called 'daoi' or 'wolves,' make up the bulk of the tribal forces of the Getai.

Makes them out to be the basic infantry forces of the Getai, I just assume they are the standard levy, and the majority of an army would probably be levy anyways.

I'm kinda bias though, an entire front line of Komatai has a tendency to destroy units before they even engage, its almost an exploit. :sweatdrop:

[Watchman]

The bulk fighting forces of both the Dacians and Thracians was indeed the tribal levy, ie. freeman peasant-warriors. Much like the Germanics that way. But thanks to the local geography and other military circumstances their method of choice was skirmish-heavy light-infantry tactics, something which they were past masters in and which caused overly ambitious Greeks from the south no end of pain.

The point being, they are the backbone at least early on; but they're not a line infantry backbone, although scrappy enough that they work surprisingly well as such if necessary.

[m046720]

I am using sweboz right now. I guess the levies are good, but i havent taken the region to get the komotoi yet. I guess it's on the to do list. my line infantry is germanic swordsman, but i feel they are too expensive for me. I like to keep upkeep costs down in my armies. i cant get the germanic heavy infantry yet because of the year, but i would only keep maybe two units of them per army anyway b/c of cost. thanks for the input, all.

i also use casse and hk a descent amount. the britons shortswordsmen are good for the price.

[tls5669]

Lusotannan Light Infantry. 6 javelins and an ap

Another one and one of my favorite light units would be the Balearic Light Infantry. 6 javelins, decent armor, an ap sword and cheaper than the above.

The Thracian Peltast. Nuff said

Bosphoran heavy archers. Nice armor, and archer unit with a .225 sword as a secondary.

I like the Massilian Medium Hoplites also, they do a fine job in any Gaul army.

[Andy1984]

Roman Accensi. They're dirt cheap (upkeep of 83), and can prove useful in quite a few occasions. I recently saved my garrisson at AkInk by sending these accensi to the back of a 8-exp german bodyguard who were massacring anything I placed in front of them. (Result: close victory, 83% of my soldiers died... Bloody Sweboz)

[hoom]

Drapani unless the other guy has a missile heavy army.
Cheap, widely available and able to slice & dice nearly any unit.

[gamegeek2]

I'm not homosexual, so I don't get any bangs for my buck in EB. RTW on the other hand has Amazons...

But seriously, IMHO the best overall unit in the game is the Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai

[m046720]

I'll probably use Balearic Light Infantry in the short run on this campaign, b/c I can already recruit them. But do you think they can hold a line awhile while i manuever flanking ops?

[antisocialmunky]

I'm not homosexual, so I don't get any bangs for my buck in EB. RTW on the other hand has Amazons...

But seriously, IMHO the best overall unit in the game is the Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai

Those guys are quite amazing. I have no idea how they do so well despite all the crap that I throw at them. Actually pretty much all the hoplite type units in Europe are pretty good.

[Cute Wolf]

I'm not homosexual, so I don't get any bangs for my buck in EB. RTW on the other hand has Amazons...

But seriously, IMHO the best overall unit in the game is the Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai




Those guys are quite amazing. I have no idea how they do so well despite all the crap that I throw at them. Actually pretty much all the hoplite type units in Europe are pretty good.

ROFL! :laugh4:
Because u quote GameGeek2's posts before... I suppose that was..... ROFL!:smash:

[DaciaJC]

actually AP units are not the best 'bang for the buck' units. tho they are the economical choice when you cant afford real armour to go toe to toe with armoured enemies. Otherwise, compared to non-AP units of similar price/etc, they are not as good.

Pit a unit of Solduros against a unit of Hypaspistai and you will get a battle of attrition in which both sides incur substantial losses (custom battle test: 5 Solduros and 26 Hypaspistai survive after a ten-minute fight).

Replace the Solduros with Traikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi, however, and you end up with a quick fight in which the heavily armored Hypaspistai are slaughtered (custom battle test: 42 Rhomps. and 3 Hypaspistai survive after a 4-5 minute fight).

Yes, I realize that Rhomphaiaphoroi are the best in the world of AP. You can't put a unit of Teceitos against Hypaspistai and expect them to win. They won't. But they will against Classical Hoplites. At every level, there is an AP unit that can counter and beat non-AP opponents.

[vartan]

Noob question: In game description, must it say Effective Against Armour to be considered AP or can a unit have AP even if description does not state Effective Against Armour?

EDIT: And if it must state so, then is that statement for the Primary weapon's AP attribute? (i.e. if secondary is AP but not primary weapon, then would it not state Effective Against Armour even though the secondary has AP?) Sorry if questions are unclear.

[athanaric]

Noob question: In game description, must it say Effective Against Armour to be considered AP or can a unit have AP even if description does not state Effective Against Armour?

EDIT: And if it must state so, then is that statement for the Primary weapon's AP attribute? (i.e. if secondary is AP but not primary weapon, then would it not state Effective Against Armour even though the secondary has AP?) Sorry if questions are unclear.

It is not necessarily displayed. But you can find it out either by looking at the EDU or simply by looking at the soldier. Every axe, mace, club, falx, two-handed sword, kopis/falcata or underhand cavalry lance in EB is AP. Dito for soliferra, pila, elephant tusks and slingstones.

[vartan]

Thanks a bunch. I figured the realistic assumptions would work most of the time.

[tls5669]

I'll probably use Balearic Light Infantry in the short run on this campaign, b/c I can already recruit them. But do you think they can hold a line awhile while i manuever flanking ops?


I usually use a heavier unit to hold the line and let the Balearic Light Infantry flank, or hit in the back, they're simply devastating.

[Watchman]

*is puzzled why someone would want to try Balearic Light Infantry as the pinner not the flanker*

[A Very Super Market]

Because we all know that using Hetairoi to hold a line, and the phalanx to flank is exactly how Alexander did it.

[kekailoa]

Baelric Light Inf. aren't worth it, in my opinion. They're really expensive and have the same stats as an Iberian unit (Iberian Light Infantry, i believe) that costs half as much as has a much wider AOR.

I think they have less morale, but when you're a flanker, morale doesn't matter as much.

[Watchman]

Baelric Light Inf. aren't worth it, in my opinion. They're really expensive and have the same stats as an Iberian unit (Iberian Light Infantry, i believe) that costs half as much as has a much wider AOR.

I think they have less morale, but when you're a flanker, morale doesn't matter as much.:inquisitive:

;188
type iberian infantry light caetratii
dictionary iberian_infantry_light_caetratii ; Iberi Caetrati
category infantry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier iberian_infantry_caetratii, 50, 0, 1.05
officer ebofficer_lusitanian_carthaginian_officer
mount_effect elephant +1, chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, can_sap, very_hardy
formation 1.2, 1.6, 3, 4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 6, 4, solifera, 36.8, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 9, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.11
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 4, 11, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, -2
stat_mental 11, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1437, 359, 30, 40, 1437

;375
type iberian missile balearic light infantry
dictionary iberian_missile_balearic_light_infantry ; Balearic Light Infantry
category infantry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier iberian_missile_balearic_light_infantry_caetranann, 40, 0, 1.05
mount_effect elephant +2, chariot +4, horse -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 6, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 6, 4, javelin, 60.5, 6, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown
stat_sec 10, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.11
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 2, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, -2
stat_mental 14, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1744, 436, 30, 40, 1744
Also worth noting that the Caetrati are actually line infantry while the Balearics are skirmishers... as evidenced by one look at their throwing weapons.

[tls5669]

Thank you Watchman.

[Ferromancer]

Alpine phalanx. Cheap units with decent armor, have spears to kill cavalry and axes to kill armored infantry. I think they also have high stamina.

Baltic Frontiersmen. Relatively cheap archer with very long range. Also have good hand-to-hand combat skills with spears to fend off cavalry charges. I've even used them to fill gaps in a line.

[godsakes]

agree with the Alpine Phalanx - firstly many factions won't be able to get hold of Phalanx troops in that area so they greatly help to balance your army but their Ap axes make them a no brainer for their cost, their only (slight) drawback is their unit size is 80 which is small for a Phalanx

Machimoi Phalangitai (Machimoi Native Phalanx) - 120 cheap phalanx units with AP axes

Casse shortswordsmen - 100 unit extremely cheap battlefodder with javlins (must be supported by morale boosting troops such as Druids or Milnaht/Belgae Swordsmen)

Caetranann (Lusotannan Light Infantry) - the standard luso troop, has 6x javlins and AP sword, 100 units

Principes - very low upkeep for a standard heavy armor unit

Celtic Slingers - have 35 ammo (more than most slingers) so lasts till the even end of a battle - also has slight better melee stats then most basic slingers with huge AOR

Sarmatian/Scythian Horse-Archers - extremely low upkeep horse archer with 40 ammo

[A Very Super Market]

Pantodapoi are better than Machimoi, as they have one more point of defense. Deuteroi do too, but they lack AP axes.

[athanaric]

agree with the Alpine Phalanx - firstly many factions won't be able to get hold of Phalanx troops in that area so they greatly help to balance your army but their Ap axes make them a no brainer for their cost, their only (slight) drawback is their unit size is 80 which is small for a Phalanx
Yeah, they're one of the most useful units in the region. Plus very dangerous to heavy cavalry.




Casse shortswordsmen - 100 unit extremely cheap battlefodder with javlins (must be supported by morale boosting troops such as Druids or Milnaht/Belgae Swordsmen)
I prefer Jugundiz Xathjiska though - essentially the same stats (and cost), but their melee weapon, although it has a lower attack, is AP and has much better lethality.



Celtic Slingers - have 35 ammo (more than most slingers) so lasts till the even end of a battle - also has slight better melee stats then most basic slingers with huge AOR.
They actually have more ammo than any other slinger. Plus a shortsword for melee, instead of the pathetic knife most slingers (all of them except Iaosatae, Komatai Sphendonitai and Qala'im Balearim) wield.

[kekailoa]

:inquisitive:

;188
type iberian infantry light caetratii
dictionary iberian_infantry_light_caetratii ; Iberi Caetrati
category infantry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier iberian_infantry_caetratii, 50, 0, 1.05
officer ebofficer_lusitanian_carthaginian_officer
mount_effect elephant +1, chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, can_sap, very_hardy
formation 1.2, 1.6, 3, 4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 6, 4, solifera, 36.8, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 9, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.11
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 4, 11, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, -2
stat_mental 11, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1437, 359, 30, 40, 1437

;375
type iberian missile balearic light infantry
dictionary iberian_missile_balearic_light_infantry ; Balearic Light Infantry
category infantry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier iberian_missile_balearic_light_infantry_caetranann, 40, 0, 1.05
mount_effect elephant +2, chariot +4, horse -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 6, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 6, 4, javelin, 60.5, 6, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown
stat_sec 10, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.11
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 5, 11, 2, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 2, -2
stat_mental 14, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1744, 436, 30, 40, 1744
Also worth noting that the Caetrati are actually line infantry while the Balearics are skirmishers... as evidenced by one look at their throwing weapons.

True.

I actually went back and checked out their stats and the like in the game myself today, and played a few custom battle with them just to check them out.

And yes, I now agree they are better than the Iberian Light infantry. My bad. :oops: