what experience do your troops have in the end-game?

[Slaists]

I'm just wondering what experience your vets have in the end-game? I am always struggling to have more than 2 chevrons still in 1799. Most of my initial troops have that, but not more. Rarely would somebody be with 3 chevrons.

For ships it's even worse. Playing as Britain, in 1799, my highest veterancy ship was a 4th rate that had 4 chevrons. But that 4th rate I captured from the French AI at the start of the game and it already had 4 chevrons then.

So, is anyone else able to achieve higher troop experience? How do you do that?
Would campaign difficulty have anything to do with how fast experience is gained?

[Prussian to the Iron]

really? in my curernt Prussian campaign (its 1748 right now) i have 10 infantry units, all of which have at least 5 chevrons or more.

ships however, i have only 2 chevrons max i think.

[Durallan]

I could get ships points up quite high before they stopped AI ships following you like lambs to the abbatior, I have never had 5 chevron troops in a game, mainly because when I get to around the 1750's I start building an elite army and therefore that has no experience and sometimes its just not possible to get one army to another place in the time it would take me to cheaply build another, although getting some 3-4 chevrons on infantry in my current GB campaign, not from artillery though, levelling artillery is the very devil itself of a job

[Slaists]

really? in my curernt Prussian campaign (its 1748 right now) i have 10 infantry units, all of which have at least 5 chevrons or more.

ships however, i have only 2 chevrons max i think.

So, any tips how to get those 5 chevrons? LOL, maybe I live too peaceful of a life (as the Brits or the Dutch).

[resonantblue]

A few tips to farm experience:

1) After the battle is over, don't just select all the units in the stack and replenish. Merge units together. If you have 3 line infantry and one has 3 exp, one has 2 exp and one has 1 exp, merge the 2exp into the 3exp first to top it off, then use the 1 exp to top up whatever is left in the other two. Always trying to move the most experienced men to top out the ranks of your most experienced units.

If you get a bonus starting exp for some units (eg you can build 2 exp line infantry in Berlin, 1 exp elsewhere), then you can instead build a fresh 2 exp unit and move it to your field army rather than replenishing the line infantry - odds are if you just hit replenish they will replenish from the nearest city which may not be berlin.

2) I don't really bother too much trying to get a high exp for my light infantry or line infantry. _Something_ has to take casualties (especially since I am almost always fighting at a disadvantage) so anything that's going to take a lot of punishment every battle is hard to get a high exp for.

So elite infantry should be hoarded in safety until a decisive moment, then committed to carry the day so they're not in constant combat.

However, if you wanted your regular infantry to get a high exp level, I'd suggest you take some extra light infantry... only because light infantry in their light infantry behaviour formation are rather good bullet sponges... you can keep them in front of your line infantry and they take very few friendly fire casualties while most of the enemy line's fire will be towards your light infantry - which again is getting hit at a much lower rate. This is also why I almost never build elite skirmishers for a main field army. However I do use elite skirmishers in battle against non European powers a lot, but I don't use them as bullet sponges there.

3) continue all battles and take out all fleeing enemies. you get exp for klling a fleeing enemy just the same as for a non-fleeing enemy.

[Liberator]

What do chevrons change, anyway?!

At the early stages of the game, I observed the reloading skill of line inf improve with chevrons.

But I observed no effect in later stages. So if I recruit a unit which has a chevron (or two) right from the start due to building improvements, the unit seems to have exactly the same stats as a new-recruited unit without a chevron ( recruited in another city without improved buildungs)

[A Very Super Market]

Experience doesn't register on the campaign map. Right-clicking a unit on the battle map gives accurate readings for their stats, but the campaign map shows nothing, really.

[Hooahguy]

cheverons means experience. the more experience, the better your troops fight.

for me, my units tend to get more chevrons pretty quickly. the key is to have all your units fighting. if a unit gets exhausted, switch it out for a fresh one. this way all of my units get combat experience, and not just a few.


Experience doesn't register on the campaign map. Right-clicking a unit on the battle map gives accurate readings for their stats, but the campaign map shows nothing, really.
thats because the campaign shows the default stats. add one to everything for every chevron to get the accurate stats.

[Prussian to the Iron]

So, any tips how to get those 5 chevrons? LOL, maybe I live too peaceful of a life (as the Brits or the Dutch).

well, my best tip is that you should only maintain a couple armies, but fill them with elite or professional soldiers.

this means that they will likely defeat all your opponents, losing very few men, and that a couple armies can fight all your battles (mostly)


of course, I'm using the AUM mod at TWC, so I'm using Swiss Guards for my infantry in 2 armies, and for another 1 I'm using Fusiliers. So I lose few men, and then I just merge them, and retrain the last guys.

also remember: it is far better to have 2 or 3 depleted units(who have transferred to other units) whom oyu can retrain and lose only a chevron, than it is to lose the unit altogether and have to start a new one.

[Slaists]

thats because the campaign shows the default stats. add one to everything for every chevron to get the accurate stats.

It's more for accuracy improvement. I forgot what exactly was the added accuracy factor. The accuracy bit is especially pronounced for naval battles. My 4 chevron 4 rater that I captured early in the game is a horror of the seas...

[resonantblue]

You can see the stat changes in battle only (right click unit card). From the campaign screen you only see the base stats, no change due to experience.

[FactionHeir]

Ship experience goes up very quickly if you autoresolve. Playing naval battles manually, I never managed to get even 1 chevron added to my fleet.

Land battle experience goes higher faster if you play manually as you take fewer losses. I would recommend autresolve siges though so that all enemy units are accounted as kills to your units rather than lost somewhere.

Note that ships cannot lose men (and thus experience) unless the ship sinks, in which case its gone. That's why they can gain experience very quickly and don't lose any from replenishment.

Replenishment in the field and in settlements always takes base xp0 units, even if your city can produce xp2/3

The very highest land xp I had was 4, and that unit had about 30 men (out of 80).
The very highest naval xp I had was 7.

[resonantblue]

Replenishment in the field and in settlements always takes base xp0 units, even if your city can produce xp2/3


That's actually really useful to know, thanks.

Guess I will be doing things like I have in every other TW game to date - building units and bringing some replenishment units with me for anything I get base exp bonuses for.

[Shahed]

Hi Factionheir, do you know which modification needs to be made to make exp gain easier ?

[FactionHeir]

The only mod I run with ETW currently is the realitic flags one. I don't like the other mods which change way more than I want to have changed or which only decrease performance for visuals.

I'd kill for a VnV mod though :grin: In fact, I was thinking of making one, but then ETW modding seems rather complicated and I don't have that much time on my hands anymore.

[Peasant Phill]

Nobody seems to have mentioned unit size as a contributing factor. I first started playing with small units which needed a lot of battles to earn even one chevron (unless the unit was almost completly depleted). Now i play with large units and I have a 2 chevron unit (half depleted though) already after only 3 battles. Almost every unit that goes one-on-one with a enemy unit until it (enemy unit) routs seems to earn there first chevron.

[Daveybaby]

What do chevrons change, anyway?!

From Le Fusil, each level gives:

Accuracy +2
Reload +2
Melee +1
Defence +1
Morale +1/2

Naval units:
Accuracy +2
Reload +5 (each 2nd level?)

[resonantblue]

Nobody seems to have mentioned unit size as a contributing factor. I first started playing with small units which needed a lot of battles to earn even one chevron (unless the unit was almost completly depleted). Now i play with large units and I have a 2 chevron unit (half depleted though) already after only 3 battles. Almost every unit that goes one-on-one with a enemy unit until it (enemy unit) routs seems to earn there first chevron.

This is true. When you mod the unit experience requirements you will notice that it's based on the number of kills the unit gets.

So if it requires 40 kills to get your first chevron, you can get that much easier on huge than normal.

[Prussian to the Iron]

well maybe thats it; i have ultra settings :P

[Slaists]

Nobody seems to have mentioned unit size as a contributing factor. I first started playing with small units which needed a lot of battles to earn even one chevron (unless the unit was almost completly depleted). Now i play with large units and I have a 2 chevron unit (half depleted though) already after only 3 battles. Almost every unit that goes one-on-one with a enemy unit until it (enemy unit) routs seems to earn there first chevron.

But I suppose there must be some scaling built in. The fact that depleated units gain experience faster suggests that. I suspect, on larger unit sizes it's simply easier to get higher average kills for "each bullet fired" since the troops are firing into denser crowds.

[Peasant Phill]

It doesn't prove that depleted units gain experience faster as fact. I don't have the exact numbers but i've seen full unit earn a chevron after a one-on-one just as easily as units that took casaulties before or during the one-on-one.

BUT I do think that your theory about more targets holds water.

[Xipe Totec]

Unless I am much mistaken I am seeing my infantry units chevron-up more rapidly since the last patch. Anyone else think this, or is it just that the constant raiding by neighbours (recently played Prussia, Austria and France) means my units have done more fighting by a certain date?

Since the last patch I have found bayoneting militia and firelockies inside buildings seems to lead to rapid level ups with much fewer casualties than before. Even taking on hardcore line infantry in a town hall is no problem now for a couple of line infantry. They seem to break sooner now and get slaughtered easily. Before the patch my infantry became exhausted after about 10 seconds and died in droves even attacking 3:1. A couple of times I was attacked by other units (armed populace and suchlike) whilst going into buildings and had a couple of decent units wiped out in seconds. :wall:

I'm quite keen to finish off occupied buildings with bayonets now instead of artillery just to get the extra chevrons. Then again I used to love the levelling up in RTW, especially with arrow firing units, and how it translated into extra killing power. In M2TW I really missed that. Units were all just so much expendable garbage. I want to nurture them, and see them grow and blossom over the decades into psychotic killing machines! :smash:

[Prussian to the Iron]

A couple of times I was attacked by other units (armed populace and suchlike) whilst going into buildings and had a couple of decent units wiped out in seconds. :wall:


really? thats odd. even on VH ive never had that happen.

[Xipe Totec]

really? thats odd. even on VH ive never had that happen.

I was playing the initial version on Normal / Normal. I was attacking Mughal unfortified towns as the Marathas with mainly Hindu musketeers. On ordering some units into lightly defended buildings well away from the main Mughal rabble, there was a huge rush of peasant scum who swarmed around my units as they entered the buildings. Before I could send assistance my units routed and were massacred. It may have been partly due to the general - I'm sure that I remember one of the Maratha starting generals has a minus morale modifier, and Hindus aren't that great morale-wise.

Another time I was British making an early attack on the Pirate bases and I got caught attacking a Pirate scum unit in a house by some badass buccaneers. Nowadays I don't attack buildings unless I am more in control of the situation.

I did find native American melee units very handy in the caribbean for clearing buildings in my recent French campaign. Pirates, Dutch and Spaniards all lost their caribbean islands very quickly to chevron-gaining tomohawk-waving posh-jacket-and-apron-wearing feather-bearing cheap-but-daring totally-tropical garrison armies. Strange how they struggle to walk across an empty field though, they really look like they're totally drunk and can't walk in a straight line, just keep bumping into one another (peut-être ils ont été payés en eau-de-vie n'est pas?). At times they barely move at all which can be a real pain when you are moving a half-stack into position. I had to keep ordering units to run for a bit to unjam them.:laugh4:

[FactionHeir]

Bowmen are great for just about anything, including chasing routers and flanking maneuvers. Must be their superior attack anims and generally the devastating arrows. Just hate their new formation which causes them to overlap.

[Slaists]

It doesn't prove that depleted units gain experience faster as fact. I don't have the exact numbers but i've seen full unit earn a chevron after a one-on-one just as easily as units that took casaulties before or during the one-on-one.

BUT I do think that your theory about more targets holds water.

Several people have suggested that depleted units gain experience faster. It wasn't my observation actually since I usually replenish them asap.

As to scaling: in MTW 1 CA had a system where experience of each soldier was kept track of, actually all kills were kept track of. There were huge text files doing the accounting... The experience displayed for the unit as a whole was the average of the individuals in the unit. I do no know if CA has simplified that system in ETW. From the sound of it, they have.

[FactionHeir]

Same with RTW and M2TW. In ETW it just goes by fraction it seems. If you merge units and one is 39 the other 41, it takes the xp of the 41 even if the 39 was borderline next level even. It seems to work slightly differently with retraining, where even having 8 xp1 units left would result in a full xp1 unit afterwards (does not apply to higher xp, just xp1) which is odd.

[Slaists]

Same with RTW and M2TW. In ETW it just goes by fraction it seems. If you merge units and one is 39 the other 41, it takes the xp of the 41 even if the 39 was borderline next level even. It seems to work slightly differently with retraining, where even having 8 xp1 units left would result in a full xp1 unit afterwards (does not apply to higher xp, just xp1) which is odd.

Well, in RTW and MTW2 there was one HUGE difference relative to MTW1. Retraining the troops allowed them to keep the average experience of the unit. The "new recruits" were brought in as veterans. In MTW1 retraining was done much the same way as it is in ETW. "New recruits" were just that: "new recruits" with experience 0. I feel, this is actually more realistic and helps to keep the game unit balance (one does not want experienced line infantry to have superior stats than elite guards).

If I understand it correctly, MTW1 and ETW were both designed by practically the same team (the one residing in the UK). RTW and MTW2 were designed by the Australian team. Troop retraining is just one of the features of the game that remind me more of the MTW1 'signature' than the one of RTW and MTW2.

In several cases, it seems we've 'rolled back' to MTW1 in several valuable game developments that came with RTW/MTW2:


troops do not know how to retreat (it was the case in MTW1; it was not a problem in RTW and MTW2)
the reinforcement system is EXACTLY the same as it was in MTW1; all advances of RTW/MTW2 have been lost
control of reinforcements is the same as it was in MTW1; MTW2 was way more advanced in that aspect
AI control of (your own troops) is gone; it was a feature of both RTW and MTW2 *
siege (when fortifications are involved) AI in ETW is very reminiscent of MTW1; in RTW/MTW2 it was not ideal, but it was way better than in ETW and MTW1


Probably there are more, but these are the ones that have "jumped at me".

Bottom line: unfortunately, it seems there is a "glass wall" between the two studios. One does not learn from the other.

--

* I know the "AI control" (of the player's troops) was as dumb as brick wall. But still, if assigned to simplest configurations of units in MTW2, it worked 'reasonably' well to let me zoom in on action to admire the mayhem. Also, cavalry units grouped together knew well how to chase down routers if left under AI control. The way it's done in ETW and MTW1, the player is forced to keep the 'zoom' way out at all times in order to comprehend what's going on. Individual units or groups of units have no "intelligence" whatsoever (such as to turn, if faced by charging cavalry).

[Prussian to the Iron]

I was playing the initial version on Normal / Normal. I was attacking Mughal unfortified towns as the Marathas with mainly Hindu musketeers. On ordering some units into lightly defended buildings well away from the main Mughal rabble, there was a huge rush of peasant scum who swarmed around my units as they entered the buildings. Before I could send assistance my units routed and were massacred. It may have been partly due to the general - I'm sure that I remember one of the Maratha starting generals has a minus morale modifier, and Hindus aren't that great morale-wise.



i see the problem: you are using hindu musketeers. they are the equivalent of militia. basically, you wil get nowhere fast with them. It is well worth the extra money to maintain armies of bargirs instead.

still, they shouldnt lose to mobs, unless they were drastically outnumbered (4-1), which i doubt, considering that means 8 mob units attacking 1 unit.


perhaps it is a bug for you or something? whenever i clear a building, i always ensure i have greater or equal numbers, and better stats.

[AnunZi]

levelling artillery is the very devil itself of a job


Really? I must say I've found the opposite to be true. My guns are nominally the most experienced units in my feild armies.
That is just down to the way I fight my battles I think. My infantry and cav are just there to protect the arty. Normally take 4 units of 12 pounders at least per stack and they do most of the heavy work. Its not unusual for my batteries to account for 50% of my kills at the end of a battle. Obviously once they are upto 3-4 cheverons that can get alot higher, its fun watching 2 batteries utterly destroy a unit of cav 500 yards away in one volley :laugh4:

[Prussian to the Iron]

i usually use 3 8-inch mortars and 3 improved rocket troops (both AUM mod), and infantry being there just to defend them....sucks. at least on VH

[Slaists]

i usually use 3 8-inch mortars and 3 improved rocket troops (both AUM mod), and infantry being there just to defend them....sucks. at least on VH

Well, do your mortars and rocket troops get any kills? In my experience, they are the least efficient killers in the game until percussion shells appear but by that time, the game is won anyway.

[Hooahguy]

the key to using mortars is to not target the enemy unit iself. target the ground in front of it, so as its walking it will get a hit, if not two or three even.

[Slaists]

the key to using mortars is to not target the enemy unit iself. target the ground in front of it, so as its walking it will get a hit, if not two or three even.

I always do that (target the ground), but no luck with mortars (probably because I never get to the percussion shells); my direct artillery are much more lethal.

I find howitzers useful for "directing" the enemy away from my flanks (towards the center where my direct artillery usually sits); and also for bombarding buildings with the AI troops sitting in them. But neither of those uses give them much xp.