Impetuousness

[Gabeed]

Does anyone know what the discipline is of a unit that is "impetuous?" I know that they like to run into battle unasked, but how does their discipline measure up to units that have "normal" or "disciplined" discipline? Discipline, discipline, discipline.

[A Very Super Market]

Discipline as in morale?

Because if they charge into battle unasked, that is pretty much the opposite of discipline.

That being said, I've never had a unit charge without orders, so just treat them as "Fresh" or maybe a bit above that.

[John the Mad]

I've noticed that my lieutenant generals(playing as rome) units will sometimes charge,or recharge,without orders.Though this seems to happen only after they've been engaged a couple of times and got their blood up.

I watched this happen the other night during a battle with rebels in south-central Italy.Since all my army was off fighting i pulled together the governors of three cities and used them.One unit in particular seemed keen on disobeying me,the youngest roman family member the game starts with.

I would have a clean disengage,after charging,and for some reason as soon as the unit stopped and reordered itself he would try to charge on his own.

The one nice thing about the battle though was i got to see the effect of a hoplite chasing cavalry uphill,only to have over a 100 horsemen(Faction leader) turn around and launch an effective charge,could do.I've never seen so many bodies flying at once.:juggle2:

[Gabeed]

Discipline as in morale?

Because if they charge into battle unasked, that is pretty much the opposite of discipline.


Not quite. In the documentation, each unit has a morale score, as well as a level of discipline. This can range from "low" to "disciplined." This rating tells you how quickly a unit's morale goes down. I was wondering how "impetuous" fit in in that regard.

[A Very Super Market]

Impetuous is simply a level of morale, so I imagine that it has no effect on discipline. Most barbarian units are impetuous, and you will still see levies breaking faster then elites.

[Andronikos]

I have noticed, that sometimes, when I order a unit to charge an enemy unit, it sometimes attacks some other unit, which is closer when passing by, I especially hate when my unit is cavalry and the other unit has long sharp wooden things pointed in the right direction. :furious3:

[DaciaJC]

I have noticed, that sometimes, when I order a unit to charge an enemy unit, it sometimes attacks some other unit, which is closer when passing by, I especially hate when my unit is cavalry and the other unit has long sharp wooden things pointed in the right direction. :furious3:

Aye, I've noticed this as well, particularly in the cases where I have the units in question grouped together. They seem to part ways and attack whatever enemy is closest to them.

[Gabeed]

Impetuous is simply a level of morale, so I imagine that it has no effect on discipline. Most barbarian units are impetuous, and you will still see levies breaking faster then elites.

That's because barbarian levies have lower morale than barbarian elites. Morale scores of levies are around 9-11, while elites range from around 13-17.

Impetuousness, according to the Unit Documentation, is not simply a level of morale. It is a level of discipline, and I'm trying to see where that lies. For example, if two equal units of hoplitai were battling each other, one being impetuous (for some reason) and one having normal discipline, which would rout first?

[option]

I think impetuous just refers to how tight their formation is. It's somewhere between untrained (where the men just stand in a big blob) and disciplined (where they actually stand together in a nice formation, like Roman legions or hoplite phalanxes). I had a unit of elite Thracians who are listed as 'impetuous' and I noticed they were somewhat organized, but still not completely cohesive.

[John the Mad]

In MTW impetious was about the same as charges without orders if i remember correctly.

Units like that were best used on the flanks as they had a habit of either charging without orders, after being engaged,or being unwilling to break off contact.

[antisocialmunky]

I think its how they treat other routers/how fast their morale goes down.

[Cute Wolf]

At least I know for some good reasons, Impetuous units will attack enemies dare to parked in front of them... many bridge battles with Keltoi as my side tells that... (ordered to sit, but run and charges enemy without orders.... ) silly thing when they are shortswordsmen... and someone coming is Cavalry (They leave my spearmen behind... even when I put thhe spears on the first line)

[satalexton]

it gets amusing at times, when a unit of tintanotae (which u held in reserve) decides to charge towards a bridge full of enemies, and proceeds to cut through the WHOLE LOT of them...and surprisingly 30 odd men still live to tell the tale....

[Chris1959]

Strange that satalexton as the Romans I had a unit of mercenary tintanotae in my army and kept them in the second line for the fear effect and occasionaly to hack the rear of a phalanx, I never once saw them charge without orders!

[satalexton]

they must be in conflict with themselves :clown: "to hack the romaioi, or to flank the 'foe'?"

[Cute Wolf]

Strange that satalexton as the Romans I had a unit of mercenary tintanotae in my army and kept them in the second line for the fear effect and occasionaly to hack the rear of a phalanx, I never once saw them charge without orders!

Well, for some obvious reasons, a general with respectable influences (at least in my games), never got an actual charge without orders... and those Romaioi deceptors often has moar influences, thanks to their ridiculous office lists...

[vartan]

Oh come on Gabeed, I think I already told you the answer to this when you asked me. There are various levels of discipline (and contrary to what people believe here on the Org, it is not a level of morale; discipline and morale are two very different things). A unit with relatively higher discipline, such as a Spartan Hoplite, will not lose morale as quickly as an Impetuous Caucasian Spearmen would. Berserker units don't give a sh** as they're like animals. Normal and low discipline units lose morale quicker than the highly disciplined ones.

[Gabeed]

Oh come on Gabeed, I think I already told you the answer to this when you asked me. There are various levels of discipline (and contrary to what people believe here on the Org, it is not a level of morale; discipline and morale are two very different things). A unit with relatively higher discipline, such as a Spartan Hoplite, will not lose morale as quickly as an Impetuous Caucasian Spearmen would. Berserker units don't give a sh** as they're like animals. Normal and low discipline units lose morale quicker than the highly disciplined ones.

Well, Vartan has somewhat grasped onto what I'm talking about . . .but here's the issue--I already know that morale and discipline are different, since a cursory glance to the Documentation reveals that. But I ask again . . .where does Impetuous fit in with discipline? Is it just like "normal" discipline with the added effect of charging in without permission? Or are impetuous units more or less disciplined (in the context of losing morale in the RTW files, not as a broad concept, please :laugh4:) than normal ones? If it is truly a level of discipline like the Documentation says, than it must also govern a rate of losing morale, and thus must be comparable to the other levels of discipline.

[vartan]

As long as CA doesn't release details (why should they?) then the discipline levels will not be comparable to each other. End of story.

[Woreczko]

As far, as i tested it, "impetous" unit is the same as "normal" one, except, that it`s morale in-battle may rise as high as impetous state (as opposed to a max of "eager" for other units). This is somewhat independent from "morale" attribute and results rather from in-battle factors, such as general nearby, winning battle, outnumbering the enemy in the area, having it`s flanks covered, etc... Even a unit with a very low default morale may enter impetous state. However under unfriendly cicumstances, it will break just as fast, as a normal unit.

Disciplined units do seem to have various in-battle morale penalties lessened.

[vartan]

As far, as i tested it, "impetous" unit is the same as "normal" one, except, that it`s morale in-battle may rise as high as impetous state (as opposed to a max of "eager" for other units). This is somewhat independent from "morale" attribute and results rather from in-battle factors, such as general nearby, winning battle, outnumbering the enemy in the area, having it`s flanks covered, etc... Even a unit with a very low default morale may enter impetous state. However under unfriendly cicumstances, it will break just as fast, as a normal unit.

Disciplined units do seem to have various in-battle morale penalties lessened.

Impetuous
characterized by undue haste and lack of thought or deliberation; "a hotheaded decision"; "liable to such impulsive acts as hugging strangers"; "an impetuous display of spending and gambling"; "madcap escapades"; (`brainish' is archaic)

Impetuous units are tempted to attack nearby enemy because of the fact taht they are nearby. If they were even taunted at a little bit I'm sure they'd just go running with their axes, axing away. You get the idea.

[Turrus Julius]

Well, according my experience they just attack the closest enemy when you want to move them to a small-scale flank. Idiots don't realise they'd get so much more kills if they didn't do that half-way there. :furious3:

Therefore, I flank with my disciplined legionaries.